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Modes, Stay on topic

lcsdds View Member Profile	Mar 3 2009, 05:07 AM
Mar 3 2009, 05:07 AM	Learning Tone Seeker Posts: 2.054 Joined: 2-September 08	Any questions regarding Modes should be posted here. I'll post later and recap again. STAY ON TOPIC so it doesn't get cluttered. You are at GuitarMasterClass.net Don't miss today's free lick. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content! Don't miss today's free blues, jazz & country licks. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content!

lcsdds View Member Profile	Mar 3 2009, 06:18 AM
Mar 3 2009, 06:18 AM	Learning Tone Seeker Posts: 2.054 Joined: 2-September 08	Dan could you kind of recap the modes thing by breaking down the following Scale: G Phrygian Tell me how to find out the best triad/chord options to get the G Phrygian sound. Thanks dude!! Hopefully this will start a discussion. Anybody who doesn't understand what is going on I want you to post in here and we can all jump in and clarify. I want us all on the same page guys. We are like the Green Berets...Nobody gets left behind. Stay on Topic. Modes and how to figure out what triads/chords to focus on and why to get the sound of a particular mode You are at GuitarMasterClass.net Don't miss today's free lick. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content! Don't miss today's free blues, jazz & country licks. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content! This post has been edited by lcsdds: Mar 3 2009, 06:24 AM

opeth.db View Member Profile	Mar 3 2009, 03:13 PM
Mar 3 2009, 03:13 PM	Learning Apprentice Player Posts: 1.156 Joined: 11-September 08 From: Cleveland, Ohio	G Phrygian Modes: Ionian I = Major Dorian ii = minor Phrygian iii = minor Lydian IV = Major Mixolydian V = Major Aeolian vi = Minor Locrian vii = dim G Phrygian = Minor (Looking at our chart it falls in the iii mode position) Mode Scale = G Ab Bb C D Eb F Scale of Comparison = G A Bb C D Eb F (G Aeolian/Minor) Our different note is Ab which is the note that make G Phrygian sound like G Phrygian. Our Triads is based on the different note we found comparing the 2 scales falls in the 1st / 3rd / 5th position of our Triad. Triads from G Phrygian are: Abmin = Ab(1st) C Eb Fmin = F Ab(3rd) C Ddim = D F Ab(5th) These triads can be used to build our song for/in G Phrygian. You are at GuitarMasterClass.net Don't miss today's free lick. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content! Don't miss today's free blues, jazz & country licks. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content! This post has been edited by opeth.db: Mar 3 2009, 04:38 PM -------------------- My Gear Ibanez RG570 Silver Jackson Ofset V Randy Rhodes Signature Mitchell Acoustic Custom Ibanez S series (Currently working on) X2 XDS95 Digital Wireless system Line 6 MKII 8 Channel USB Roland Mixer My Site www.shredwork.com Learn how to count. It's what separates the hack and the pros IMHO. -LCSDDS

jer View Member Profile	Mar 3 2009, 03:20 PM
Mar 3 2009, 03:20 PM	GMC:er Posts: 1.889 Joined: 3-September 08 From: Des Moines IA USA	That all looks right to me. I follow. This line: Our Triads formula is that the different note falls in the 1st / 3rd / 5th position. I'm not really sure what you mean there. You are at GuitarMasterClass.net Don't miss today's free lick. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content! Don't miss today's free blues, jazz & country licks. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content! -------------------- My Gear Jackson SL-1 USA Soloist Jackson DK2M ESP LTD MH-400 ESP LTD EC-1000 Ibanez Custom S-Series Martin 001 Acoustic Handmade Marshall JCM800 50watt head (with mods) Carvin 50x2 Stereo Tube Amp Boss GT-10 Preamp/Effects Processor Digitech GSP-1101 Preamp/Effects Processor Behringer FCB1010 Midi Controlled Floorboard Behringer Dualfex EX2200 Behinger Stereo EQ Line 6 POD with 2.3 upgrade Line 6 Floor Board Line 6 Spider III Practice Amp Nady UHF Wireless *"Who will eat the decay, when the worms have lost their sight?"*

kaznie_NL View Member Profile	Mar 3 2009, 03:58 PM
Mar 3 2009, 03:58 PM	Experienced Tone Seeker Posts: 4.809 Joined: 8-December 07 From: Hedel, Netherlands	QUOTE (jer @ Mar 3 2009, 03:20 PM) That all looks right to me. I follow. This line: Our Triads formula is that the different note falls in the 1st / 3rd / 5th position. I'm not really sure what you mean there. Jer, we want to make a chord progression with chords from the G Phrygian Mode, which doesn't sound like the Aeolian Mode. So... we want to have the notes that are in Phrygian, but not in Aeolian. Now Opeth told us that the only not in Phrygian (but not in Aeolian) is Ab. So if we make triads with the note Ab, then it won't sound like the Aeolian mode. A triad is build out of three notes (1, 3, 5) so if 1, 3 or 5 is Ab, then we have a triad sounding very phrygian, and not Aeolian. An other way of doing this is to use Monte's chart, find the chords and check whether they are Maj, Min or Dim. Then pick out the chords which are in G Phrygian, but not in Aeolian Mode. You are at GuitarMasterClass.net Don't miss today's free lick. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content! Don't miss today's free blues, jazz & country licks. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content! -------------------- My YouTube Channel Here My Rec Takes Here --- GEAR --- Ibanez SA08LTD2 BAR Vox AD50VT Pod Farm Line 6 Pod Studio GX El Cheapo Strat Dunlop Slide Korg Toneworks AX5G

opeth.db View Member Profile	Mar 3 2009, 03:58 PM
Mar 3 2009, 03:58 PM	Learning Apprentice Player Posts: 1.156 Joined: 11-September 08 From: Cleveland, Ohio	Updated post. You are at GuitarMasterClass.net Don't miss today's free lick. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content! Don't miss today's free blues, jazz & country licks. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content! -------------------- My Gear Ibanez RG570 Silver Jackson Ofset V Randy Rhodes Signature Mitchell Acoustic Custom Ibanez S series (Currently working on) X2 XDS95 Digital Wireless system Line 6 MKII 8 Channel USB Roland Mixer My Site www.shredwork.com Learn how to count. It's what separates the hack and the pros IMHO. -LCSDDS

jer View Member Profile	Mar 3 2009, 04:18 PM
Mar 3 2009, 04:18 PM	GMC:er Posts: 1.889 Joined: 3-September 08 From: Des Moines IA USA	QUOTE Our different note is Ab which is the note that make G Phrygian sound like G Phrygian. Our Triads is based on the different note we found comparing the 2 scales falls in the 1st / 3rd / 5th position of our Triad. Triads from G Phrygian are: Amin = Ab(1st) C Eb Fmin = F Ab(3rd) C Ddim = D F Ab(5th) These triads can be used to build our song for/in G Phrygian. I know this is the right answer. Not disputing that at all. (though you need to switch your Amin to Abmin) We know that Ab is the note we need to phrygian the heck out of this one. Do you have some "system" or "shortcut" for knowing that its the Abmin, Fmin, and Ddim chords? I just look at all 7 and find the ones with Ab in them. When I read your explanation it sounds to me like you are using some other rule or tip to find them. You are at GuitarMasterClass.net Don't miss today's free lick. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content! Don't miss today's free blues, jazz & country licks. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content! This post has been edited by jer: Mar 3 2009, 04:18 PM -------------------- My Gear Jackson SL-1 USA Soloist Jackson DK2M ESP LTD MH-400 ESP LTD EC-1000 Ibanez Custom S-Series Martin 001 Acoustic Handmade Marshall JCM800 50watt head (with mods) Carvin 50x2 Stereo Tube Amp Boss GT-10 Preamp/Effects Processor Digitech GSP-1101 Preamp/Effects Processor Behringer FCB1010 Midi Controlled Floorboard Behringer Dualfex EX2200 Behinger Stereo EQ Line 6 POD with 2.3 upgrade Line 6 Floor Board Line 6 Spider III Practice Amp Nady UHF Wireless *"Who will eat the decay, when the worms have lost their sight?"*

opeth.db View Member Profile	Mar 3 2009, 04:39 PM
Mar 3 2009, 04:39 PM	Learning Apprentice Player Posts: 1.156 Joined: 11-September 08 From: Cleveland, Ohio	QUOTE (jer @ Mar 3 2009, 10:18 AM) I know this is the right answer. Not disputing that at all. (though you need to switch your Amin to Abmin) We know that Ab is the note we need to phrygian the heck out of this one. Do you have some "system" or "shortcut" for knowing that its the Abmin, Fmin, and Ddim chords? I just look at all 7 and find the ones with Ab in them. When I read your explanation it sounds to me like you are using some other rule or tip to find them. Sorry Typo. You are at GuitarMasterClass.net Don't miss today's free lick. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content! Don't miss today's free blues, jazz & country licks. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content! -------------------- My Gear Ibanez RG570 Silver Jackson Ofset V Randy Rhodes Signature Mitchell Acoustic Custom Ibanez S series (Currently working on) X2 XDS95 Digital Wireless system Line 6 MKII 8 Channel USB Roland Mixer My Site www.shredwork.com Learn how to count. It's what separates the hack and the pros IMHO. -LCSDDS

Ramiro Delforte View Member Profile	Mar 3 2009, 05:48 PM
Mar 3 2009, 05:48 PM	Instructor Posts: 2.279 Joined: 4-August 08 From: Argentina, Buenos Aires	The typical phrygian chord that suggest that scale (or could be a mode of the melodic minor too) is: Gsus4 b9 = G, Ab, C, D Also is a really cool chord if you alterate the bass and give some movement. You are at GuitarMasterClass.net Don't miss today's free lick. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content! Don't miss today's free blues, jazz & country licks. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content! -------------------- Check out my Instructor Profile and Board LIVE VIDEO CHATS EVERY MONDAY AROUND 22PM (GMC HOUR)

lcsdds View Member Profile	Mar 3 2009, 06:38 PM
Mar 3 2009, 06:38 PM	Learning Tone Seeker Posts: 2.054 Joined: 2-September 08	QUOTE (Ramiro Delforte @ Mar 3 2009, 05:48 PM) The typical phrygian chord that suggest that scale (or could be a mode of the melodic minor too) is: Gsus4 b9 = G, Ab, C, D Also is a really cool chord if you alterate the bass and give some movement. Thanks for that Ramiro. Can you expound on that and tell us WHY it is the typical chord that suggest the Phrygian mode? Thanks!! You are at GuitarMasterClass.net Don't miss today's free lick. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content! Don't miss today's free blues, jazz & country licks. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content!

lcsdds View Member Profile	Mar 3 2009, 07:08 PM
Mar 3 2009, 07:08 PM	Learning Tone Seeker Posts: 2.054 Joined: 2-September 08	QUOTE (opeth.db @ Mar 3 2009, 03:13 PM) G Phrygian Modes: Ionian I = Major Dorian ii = minor Phrygian iii = minor Lydian IV = Major Mixolydian V = Major Aeolian vi = Minor Locrian vii = dim G Phrygian = Minor (Looking at our chart it falls in the iii mode position) Mode Scale = G Ab Bb C D Eb F Scale of Comparison = G A Bb C D Eb F (G Aeolian/Minor) Our different note is Ab which is the note that make G Phrygian sound like G Phrygian. Our Triads is based on the different note we found comparing the 2 scales falls in the 1st / 3rd / 5th position of our Triad. Triads from G Phrygian are: Abmin = Ab(1st) C Eb Fmin = F Ab(3rd) C Ddim = D F Ab(5th) These triads can be used to build our song for/in G Phrygian. Very Well done Dan...See you are WAY smarter than Jer said you are!! \m/\m/ QUOTE (jer @ Mar 3 2009, 04:18 PM) I know this is the right answer. Not disputing that at all. (though you need to switch your Amin to Abmin) We know that Ab is the note we need to phrygian the heck out of this one. Do you have some "system" or "shortcut" for knowing that its the Abmin, Fmin, and Ddim chords? I just look at all 7 and find the ones with Ab in them. When I read your explanation it sounds to me like you are using some other rule or tip to find them. Why...Yes I do...A chart is on its way. Dan has a rough draft. QUOTE (kaznie_NL @ Mar 3 2009, 03:58 PM) Jer, we want to make a chord progression with chords from the G Phrygian Mode, which doesn't sound like the Aeolian Mode. So... we want to have the notes that are in Phrygian, but not in Aeolian. Now Opeth told us that the only not in Phrygian (but not in Aeolian) is Ab. So if we make triads with the note Ab, then it won't sound like the Aeolian mode. A triad is build out of three notes (1, 3, 5) so if 1, 3 or 5 is Ab, then we have a triad sounding very phrygian, and not Aeolian. An other way of doing this is to use Monte's chart, find the chords and check whether they are Maj, Min or Dim. Then pick out the chords which are in G Phrygian, but not in Aeolian Mode. Good job Kaz!! Don't take any of Jer's crap!!! I got plenty of milkbones if you need them. You are at GuitarMasterClass.net Don't miss today's free lick. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content! Don't miss today's free blues, jazz & country licks. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content! This post has been edited by lcsdds: Mar 3 2009, 07:08 PM

jer View Member Profile	Mar 3 2009, 07:12 PM
Mar 3 2009, 07:12 PM	GMC:er Posts: 1.889 Joined: 3-September 08 From: Des Moines IA USA	QUOTE Good job Kaz!! Don't take any of Jer's crap!!! What did I do to Kaz???? Oh I see, its gang up on Jer time. That's fine. I can take it. No duelling banjos playing, back woods, dentist is gonna get to me! Do people in Oregon even have teeth? QUOTE Why...Yes I do...A chart is on its way. Dan has a rough draft. For real? I figure there has to be a tip or shortcut here. This stuff is anything but random. You are at GuitarMasterClass.net Don't miss today's free lick. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content! Don't miss today's free blues, jazz & country licks. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content! -------------------- My Gear Jackson SL-1 USA Soloist Jackson DK2M ESP LTD MH-400 ESP LTD EC-1000 Ibanez Custom S-Series Martin 001 Acoustic Handmade Marshall JCM800 50watt head (with mods) Carvin 50x2 Stereo Tube Amp Boss GT-10 Preamp/Effects Processor Digitech GSP-1101 Preamp/Effects Processor Behringer FCB1010 Midi Controlled Floorboard Behringer Dualfex EX2200 Behinger Stereo EQ Line 6 POD with 2.3 upgrade Line 6 Floor Board Line 6 Spider III Practice Amp Nady UHF Wireless *"Who will eat the decay, when the worms have lost their sight?"*

lcsdds View Member Profile	Mar 3 2009, 07:19 PM
Mar 3 2009, 07:19 PM	Learning Tone Seeker Posts: 2.054 Joined: 2-September 08	QUOTE Do people in Oregon even have teeth? Clarify...Before or After their appointment with me. QUOTE For real? I figure there has to be a tip or shortcut here. This stuff is anything but random. You can look at the chart and decide for yourself. You are at GuitarMasterClass.net Don't miss today's free lick. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content! Don't miss today's free blues, jazz & country licks. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content!

jer View Member Profile	Mar 3 2009, 07:50 PM
Mar 3 2009, 07:50 PM	GMC:er Posts: 1.889 Joined: 3-September 08 From: Des Moines IA USA	where can I find the chart? (Its cool that we can have a laugh or 3 while we are learning. Really helps my day fly by.) You are at GuitarMasterClass.net Don't miss today's free lick. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content! Don't miss today's free blues, jazz & country licks. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content! -------------------- My Gear Jackson SL-1 USA Soloist Jackson DK2M ESP LTD MH-400 ESP LTD EC-1000 Ibanez Custom S-Series Martin 001 Acoustic Handmade Marshall JCM800 50watt head (with mods) Carvin 50x2 Stereo Tube Amp Boss GT-10 Preamp/Effects Processor Digitech GSP-1101 Preamp/Effects Processor Behringer FCB1010 Midi Controlled Floorboard Behringer Dualfex EX2200 Behinger Stereo EQ Line 6 POD with 2.3 upgrade Line 6 Floor Board Line 6 Spider III Practice Amp Nady UHF Wireless *"Who will eat the decay, when the worms have lost their sight?"*

lcsdds View Member Profile	Mar 3 2009, 10:30 PM
Mar 3 2009, 10:30 PM	Learning Tone Seeker Posts: 2.054 Joined: 2-September 08	QUOTE (jer @ Mar 3 2009, 07:50 PM) where can I find the chart? (Its cool that we can have a laugh or 3 while we are learning. Really helps my day fly by.) I'm working on it......\m/\m/ I agree about the laughing...gotta make this dry theory stuff fun. You are at GuitarMasterClass.net Don't miss today's free lick. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content! Don't miss today's free blues, jazz & country licks. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content!

jer View Member Profile	Mar 4 2009, 04:52 PM
Mar 4 2009, 04:52 PM	GMC:er Posts: 1.889 Joined: 3-September 08 From: Des Moines IA USA	Something I just noticed on the modes boxes. On the gp5 file you posted at the very beginning. The Triads, Diatonic, Pentatonic, one... Look at Ionian, the shape you play on the 1st string, is the same one you play on the 6th string of Dorian. The one you play on the 1st string of Dorian, is the same as 6th string of Phrygian, etc..... This is true all the way through the cycle. That kind of thing helps me remember them. You are at GuitarMasterClass.net Don't miss today's free lick. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content! Don't miss today's free blues, jazz & country licks. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content! -------------------- My Gear Jackson SL-1 USA Soloist Jackson DK2M ESP LTD MH-400 ESP LTD EC-1000 Ibanez Custom S-Series Martin 001 Acoustic Handmade Marshall JCM800 50watt head (with mods) Carvin 50x2 Stereo Tube Amp Boss GT-10 Preamp/Effects Processor Digitech GSP-1101 Preamp/Effects Processor Behringer FCB1010 Midi Controlled Floorboard Behringer Dualfex EX2200 Behinger Stereo EQ Line 6 POD with 2.3 upgrade Line 6 Floor Board Line 6 Spider III Practice Amp Nady UHF Wireless *"Who will eat the decay, when the worms have lost their sight?"*

lcsdds View Member Profile	Mar 4 2009, 06:43 PM
Mar 4 2009, 06:43 PM	Learning Tone Seeker Posts: 2.054 Joined: 2-September 08	QUOTE (jer @ Mar 4 2009, 04:52 PM) Something I just noticed on the modes boxes. On the gp5 file you posted at the very beginning. The Triads, Diatonic, Pentatonic, one... Look at Ionian, the shape you play on the 1st string, is the same one you play on the 6th string of Dorian. The one you play on the 1st string of Dorian, is the same as 6th string of Phrygian, etc..... This is true all the way through the cycle. That kind of thing helps me remember them. All this stuff turns out to be patterns. Just work on the boxes a little bit each day and soon you will be able to start integrating them into your playing. You are at GuitarMasterClass.net Don't miss today's free lick. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content! Don't miss today's free blues, jazz & country licks. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content!

jer View Member Profile	Mar 6 2009, 05:39 PM
Mar 6 2009, 05:39 PM	GMC:er Posts: 1.889 Joined: 3-September 08 From: Des Moines IA USA	Question: Using the modes in your playing. Do you get the flavor of the mode when playing the modal melody/lead over the corresponding major chords? Or do you need the modal chords too? You are at GuitarMasterClass.net Don't miss today's free lick. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content! Don't miss today's free blues, jazz & country licks. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content! -------------------- My Gear Jackson SL-1 USA Soloist Jackson DK2M ESP LTD MH-400 ESP LTD EC-1000 Ibanez Custom S-Series Martin 001 Acoustic Handmade Marshall JCM800 50watt head (with mods) Carvin 50x2 Stereo Tube Amp Boss GT-10 Preamp/Effects Processor Digitech GSP-1101 Preamp/Effects Processor Behringer FCB1010 Midi Controlled Floorboard Behringer Dualfex EX2200 Behinger Stereo EQ Line 6 POD with 2.3 upgrade Line 6 Floor Board Line 6 Spider III Practice Amp Nady UHF Wireless *"Who will eat the decay, when the worms have lost their sight?"*

lcsdds View Member Profile	Mar 6 2009, 06:06 PM
Mar 6 2009, 06:06 PM	Learning Tone Seeker Posts: 2.054 Joined: 2-September 08	QUOTE (jer @ Mar 6 2009, 05:39 PM) Question: Using the modes in your playing. Do you get the flavor of the mode when playing the modal melody/lead over the corresponding major chords? Or do you need the modal chords too? I think a lot of it depends on the chord you are playing over Jer. If you are playing over just a D major chord then you could flavor it Ionian, Lydian or Mixolydian with your lead playing by hanging on the appropriate notes. I think to get the true flavor though, it helps to have an extended chord that is only found in that mode. Like the now infamous E+11. BTW....I think when you and Dan go to the Opeth concert you should get matchng E+11 tats....Whatcha think? You are at GuitarMasterClass.net Don't miss today's free lick. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content! Don't miss today's free blues, jazz & country licks. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content!

jer View Member Profile	Mar 6 2009, 06:17 PM
Mar 6 2009, 06:17 PM	GMC:er Posts: 1.889 Joined: 3-September 08 From: Des Moines IA USA	Cool. Thanks. QUOTE BTW....I think when you and Dan go to the Opeth concert you should get matching E+11 tats....Whatcha think? No tats for this guy. You are at GuitarMasterClass.net Don't miss today's free lick. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content! Don't miss today's free blues, jazz & country licks. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content! -------------------- My Gear Jackson SL-1 USA Soloist Jackson DK2M ESP LTD MH-400 ESP LTD EC-1000 Ibanez Custom S-Series Martin 001 Acoustic Handmade Marshall JCM800 50watt head (with mods) Carvin 50x2 Stereo Tube Amp Boss GT-10 Preamp/Effects Processor Digitech GSP-1101 Preamp/Effects Processor Behringer FCB1010 Midi Controlled Floorboard Behringer Dualfex EX2200 Behinger Stereo EQ Line 6 POD with 2.3 upgrade Line 6 Floor Board Line 6 Spider III Practice Amp Nady UHF Wireless *"Who will eat the decay, when the worms have lost their sight?"*

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