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Posted by: Andrew Cockburn Nov 15 2007, 10:28 PM

There have been in the last week or so 3 regrettable unrelated incidents in which our instructors have been the target of disrespectful activities. Whilst I wont go into details, suffice it to say that Kris, Tony & I are saddened by this.

Our instructors are what breathes life into the site. Without the hard work of every one of them GMC would be a lot less than it is today, and they occupy a position of honor within GMC, for their achievements and willingness to help us all.

Kris works hard to keep the new instructors coming in and working with them to ensure they make a good start with the high quality lessons that are a hallmark of GMC. Occasionally we lose instructors as they reluctantly decide to move on, so Kris can never stop his search for new instructors.

Given the above, it should be no surprise that we are particularly upset about the disrespect that has been shown to our instructors in the cases mentioned above. If this were to continue, and an instructor were to leave because of something a member said or did, the whole of GMC would suffer.

For this reason, please observe the following guidelines, and don't force us to take action in this area.

• Lesson comments are a great way of giving feedback to instructors on how much you liked their lesson, and to provide suggestions on what you would like to see in future. Please keep all comments positive and constructive (especially if you see elements that need to be improved). Negative comments will be immediately deleted, and action will be taken against the member involved
• GMC does encourage feedback about its instructors. If you have an issue or concern about an instructor please do not make public comments. Instead, report the matter privately by PM to Kris or any moderator and we will take it seriously
• The instructors forums and sub-forums are the personal space of the instructor concerned. On an instructors board behave as you would if you were in their house. Show respect to the Instructor and do not flame or argue in their forums no matter what the provocation. Any such posts will be immediately deleted, and action will be taken against the members concerned.
• On the boards in general, Instructors are due the courtesy and respect that would be afforded to any other member and more. Disrespect to instructors on the general boards will be treated in exactly the same way as above.

I am personally sad that I have had to make this announcement - we will be enforcing the above policy rigorously from now on.

Posted by: Fsgdjv Nov 15 2007, 10:58 PM

This may be a stupid question, but I don't think I really understood it completely. Are we supposed to treat instructors as we treat everybody else (wich is according to the rules and everything), or are we suppose to be extra super nice to instructors on the boards in general?

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Nov 15 2007, 10:59 PM

Yes yes yes!! That's it! Good summary!

Posted by: Smells Nov 15 2007, 11:00 PM

Shouldnt we just be super nice to everybody??

Posted by: Fsgdjv Nov 15 2007, 11:03 PM

Ok

Posted by: mattacuk Nov 15 2007, 11:11 PM

Absolutely!

I have my own general guidelines that I like to follow when posting on the boards.

The main one being that I only tend to comment when I belive it benfits the community. If I disagree with a member, I dont comment on it, I just try to respect that everyone has there own veiws.

At the end of the day, people worldwide will always disagree on topics and issues, so i feel it is best for me to accept that and just move on.

When i was younger, I always wanted to get my point of veiw across - but as i have gotten a little older, doing so just does not matter to me one bit.

We have such an awsome community here, and I hope it stays this way for many many years to come!


Matt

Posted by: Muris Nov 15 2007, 11:22 PM

This explains everything,well said Chris!!!

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Nov 15 2007, 11:25 PM

Those are some excellent guidelines - no wonder your posts always are a joy to read!

Posted by: mattacuk Nov 15 2007, 11:29 PM

Thankyou Kris, I am honoured to be part of you Community!

Posted by: dogman Nov 15 2007, 11:54 PM

I dont mind sucking up once in a while

All kidding aside, I have been working alot so I missed what ever caused this. It is really a shame that it will come down to having being policed because a few people dont understand the concept of dont bite the hand that feeds you and/or treating others as you'd like to be treated whether you agree or agree to disagree:(

After all, it is kinda like a 2nd family here now

Posted by: Smells Nov 15 2007, 11:58 PM

Totally m8, I`m a fairly new member here and the help I`ve received in such a short space of time is fantastic and I already feel part of something, I read a few of the posts in question and was gutted, I`m glad it was stamped on so swiftly before it tainted my own personal experience of GMC.

Posted by: Muris Nov 16 2007, 12:00 AM

This policy isn't something hard to follow I believe .
Just do it as you used to do and you'll be fine,like whole community as well.
All this is caused by few harder replies in my sub-board between two members,
it's ok now tho and I'm sure this policy is fine guide,
not just here at GMC but for general good behavior as well.

Posted by: Andrew Cockburn Nov 16 2007, 12:06 AM

And there were a couple of other incidents as well Muris - we wanted to get ahead of it before it became a trend.

But just as you say - treat everyone with respect, instructor or not, think before you post and there will be no problem.

Posted by: Muris Nov 16 2007, 12:07 AM

Didn't know that Andrew
Anyhow,I'm sure this will help a lot!!!

Posted by: tonymiro Nov 16 2007, 12:22 AM

Same as you Smells, the ones in question left me feeling quite hurt. I don't enjoy having to edit or take action against a member but sadly at times it's necessary in order to maintain the community that we've come to enjoy.

Being super nice is a good way of putting it btw - being nice to some one face to face is great - when we can't see each other we're more likely to misunderstand what the other person means or feels and so super nice is a good way to go .

Cheers,
Tony

Posted by: Pavel Nov 16 2007, 12:27 AM

Guidelines are just fine, good thing to point it out!

Posted by: PolackHax0r Nov 16 2007, 12:43 AM

One of the reasons I love GMC so much is because everyone is so nice to eachother. I would hate to see that change. Being mean and disrespectful to other members and instructors does not get anything productive done. I hope this issue does not come up in the future.

-Justin

Posted by: coffeeman Nov 16 2007, 12:52 AM

Dear Friends,

We live in a society , with live with people just like us , if we want respect we have to treat with respect the other people around is very simple.

And I call you friends because thats what I think you are to me , I treat you like I treat my friends here in Colombia, with respect, simple and fun.

Thanks.

Posted by: Unleash-The-Shred Nov 16 2007, 12:57 AM

Now I know this is partially my fault, but I want everyone to understand that I was not the one who started the argument. I did say something that offended someone in a way that was not intended. I would therefor like to apologize to everyone that had to deal with this, mainly Muris, Tony, and Andrew for the trouble they went through with this.

I hope all apologies are accepted and that there are no longer any hard feelings.

Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Nov 16 2007, 01:28 AM

That's sad to hear that we had problems but I think that it's ok to have a well explained policy.
I have to say that I have found lots of good friends here and I had never any problem here. I'm glad of the positive energy that everybody has in this site. So I'm very surprised of knowing that we had some problems.

gabriel.-

Posted by: Iluha Nov 16 2007, 01:46 AM

Though I have no idea what incidents you are talking about, but I think this policy needs to be applied on both Instructors and Members.

I personally think the points in this policy are preety obvious, if you don't like something someone says, don't comment, it's very disrespectful.

Posted by: Bali Nov 16 2007, 01:57 AM

Agreed

Posted by: Muris Nov 16 2007, 01:59 AM

Full truth Illuha.
Just act to somebody in the way that you would like he acts to you,that's all.

Posted by: fkalich Nov 16 2007, 02:54 AM

Naw, I don't agree.

Posted by: Owen Nov 16 2007, 03:00 AM

I dont think I've ever been intentionally rude on this forum, I tend not to favour profanity as a way of getting my point across, but I realise I am a bit of an argument starter (albeit unintentionally), I also realise that I do come across as a bit aggressive sometimes as I have some very strong opinions on some matters, so I'm sorry If I've said or done anything that has caused anyone any offense - I honestly dont mean to do so, I'm just perhaps a bit too blunt sometimes.

I think Andrew perhaps realises this the most and notices that I do end up saying something daft every once in a while that I later regret, but this site is my favourite on the entire net and I wouldnt do anything intentionally destructive towards it, its a brilliant place and everyone on it deserves respect

Edit: Just saw the posts above, I agree in thinking tha we should always be able to question something someone says, otherwise there wouldnt be much point in a forum at all, but I think this should always be done in a polite and civilised way

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Nov 16 2007, 03:15 AM

Between the lines of this announcement - you will also find a warning.

We will have extremely low tolerance for members not paying respect to these guidelines.

And yes I agree this is totally obvious - the reason we mention this now is because three different incidents recently have proven that this isn't obvious to everyone. Hopefully we will never have to mention this again.

Posted by: Tank Nov 16 2007, 03:35 AM

Although I don't know the details of the altercations that caused this to be enforced, I think it's fair enough. It's important that common rules of respect and decency are observed. Having experienced how difficult the freelicks forum became to administer, and the trouble Kris had, just because a small percentage of the population were constantly engaged in flaming and side sniping.

To be honest, I think it's a credit to all the members of the community, that we've lasted until now for such rules to be drawn. And most of us will not be feel any effected in the slightest by this.

Normal service will be resumed shortly.

Nothing to see here... move along

Posted by: ActiveX Nov 16 2007, 03:37 AM

Overall, this is the friendliest forum with the nicest people I have ever had the pleasure to be involved with. Unfortunately, guidelines like these will be necessary as this site grows...same old story of how a few rotten apples will spoil the whole bunch. I believe that most of us respect each other's opinions and are capable of having a friendly debate or difference of opinion without being rude or offensive. Anyway, I'm sure that this will help to ensure that our wonderful forum here will continue to be a great place to hang out...

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Nov 16 2007, 03:45 AM

Exactly Tank and ActiveX - this obviously only concerns 0,003% of gmc:ers. Until now occasional, non public warnings, have been enough.

But with the frequency of the last week - an announcement was unfortunately necessary.

Posted by: Kaneda Nov 18 2007, 08:52 PM

Exactly - and this also means I agree with fkalich in the post above yours. There's a huge difference between being constructive and polite in a comment, and refraining from disagreement altogether (which would be sad).

It ought to be manageable for anyone to respectfully disagree, criticize constructively, question politely...

Off the web, I'm not known for being the most agreeable and super-polite person, but we're not speaking face-to-face here, people. Kris and Andrew can't punch you in the face for being rude or worse, and they shouldn't ever be given a reason to wish they could

Posted by: Alex Lewis Nov 18 2007, 09:14 PM

I must say I love the atmosphere on GMC and the really positive feedback given to each and every member and I would hate for this to change.

All the instructors here do a phenominal job and have helped me enormously in the short time of being a member so I think it is only right for everyone to as nice as possible to every one here.


Alex

Posted by: Twibeard Nov 18 2007, 10:34 PM

+1

And off the web ... if anyone critisize the color of my Bike, the quality of my Axe, the look of my girlfriend or the teachings of my GMC guitar-instructor ...
poooff ... POW

Edited with a POW

Posted by: rokchik Nov 26 2007, 06:22 PM

I was very surprised to see this topic actually....and a little sad

I've been away and do not know what transpired but I am glad things are resolved. This site is fantastic! Kris and the moderators do an amazing job keeping this site a friendly place for everyone. It's like one big giant family here. However, like with most families, there will be disagreements. But I'm glad we can get past them and enjoy the wonderful place Kris has created.

Posted by: leedbreak Nov 28 2007, 02:43 AM

IMO

I don't see how anyone could be negative in here about anything towards instructors or members. Shoot this place is big fun and I totally enjoy the music, the members and especially the instructors. I get somewhat discouraged at times in how hard a lesson may be, but that is why I am here. What slang I saw was just frustration being taken out on someone else, which is always unfair.



EDIT: Not to mention,,,, getting booted from GMC would be a nightmare all by itself.

Posted by: Paul Coutts Dec 13 2007, 07:21 AM

yeah, this is pretty sad that it needs to be addressed. But you know, there will always come a time when it's needed. Hopefully, this won't happen again. I love GMC, it's the only place I can go to and immediately get the information I need, because everyone is ON topic (with the occasionally lame comment, which is usually funny ), and there's no stupid comments and arguments that take up space and leave me searching for hours in the forums.
Yeah, hopefully this doesn't happen again, and I'll take the opportunity to shout out to everyone, AWESOME JOB! We really do do so well here, and we have a fantastic community that we can be proud of.
Cheers, guys!

Posted by: preownedguitar Dec 18 2007, 07:25 AM

I am glad you are enforcing this policy. There are some people who just cannot grasp the concept of behavior with people in society. Being friendly to everyone is a simple task and unfortunately cannot be enforced as strictly in real life. Just because you disagree with someone does not give you the right to put someone else down. Opinions are opinions, a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty. This means that what you say is purely a personal view. You can always agree to disagree. This site is fantastic and will need a zero tolerance policy in order to stay amazing.

"If you don't have something good to say, don't say it at all!"

Posted by: sam47 Dec 24 2007, 06:08 PM

It is a shame that people here have to be told how to act. Lessons are available at anyones any given moment. What do they have to bitch about?

Posted by: mattacuk Dec 24 2007, 06:19 PM

Well Sam, Luckily these were just isolated incidents , and recently GMC has been just as cool as ever to hang out, if not even MORE better !

Posted by: stratman33 Dec 26 2007, 12:36 AM

so true...

Posted by: Muris Dec 26 2007, 12:47 AM

Thing is,most of the sites and forums around the web are crowded with unpolite guys,
they are mostly killing time by posting stupidity,being rude as much as possible,
that's one side of the medal called "NICK NAME".
And then they come to GMC thinking..."ahh another place to hang out and make fun".
Hang out...sure...have fun...sure.
But to hang someone...or to make fun of somebody... NOPE.
GMC just isn't place like many on the net and I like it soooo much,
GMC is looking for fine manners,nice talk,good music and playing.
Do you need something else???

Posted by: Pavel Dec 26 2007, 01:16 AM

Yeah, an online coffee machine, with direct download to my coffee-mug

Posted by: Andrew Cockburn Dec 26 2007, 01:35 PM

And 48 hours in a day so that I can devote an extra 24 to guitar ....

But you are totally right Muris about GMC

Posted by: Muris Dec 26 2007, 01:37 PM

Ouch,I'm signing this

Posted by: Freddie Fourfingers Dec 26 2007, 02:07 PM

Mind boggling that anyone would log on to a forum seeking help and then be a real snot to the people they are asking help from. And, all kidding aside, there is nothing wrong with being "super nice" to instructors (or anyone)...unless you want them to make fun of your questions in public.

Posted by: tonymiro Dec 26 2007, 06:34 PM

I'm may old enough enough, stupid enough, or maybe insensitive enough, not to really worry what others think about me. However I really can't understand why some might want to ask for help off someone and then in their next breath bad mouth the person/s helping them. I'd also like to have a space that my daughter could come to that I'd feel she was safe on (yea ok wen she kan spill an tiyp - unlick er dah yea rite yer .)

As Freddie, Muris, Pavel and lots of others have said, don't bite the hand that's feeding you. GMC is a great site and lets keep it that way .

Cheers,
Tony

24 hour Coffee and an online machine - ohhh . Kris - implement ASAP please .

Posted by: GrowingDown1 Dec 26 2007, 07:07 PM

Whoever the individuals concerned were obviously did not respect the fact that these instructors are not only professionals, but are here for us musicians to learn from and to better our playing with. I personally thank every one of you guys for being here for all of us. If I have a question about music, of any type, at any time, I know I can count on you all to be here and give me the expert advice and instruction I need. Thanks again GMC instructors, you guys rock!

Posted by: Lithuanian Jan 20 2008, 10:00 PM

Excuse me, but thats just plain wrong! By not stating your opinion about a subject that you do not agree on (hope this sentence sounded right) you kill the possibility of a discussion. Ofcourse your opinion should be constructive and argumentet

Posted by: mattacuk Jan 20 2008, 10:13 PM

Maybe i am just stupid

Posted by: Andrew Cockburn Jan 20 2008, 10:14 PM

Calling someone stupid (especially a senior member) is a great way of starting a fight - perhaps you'd like to rephrase that?

Posted by: Fsgdjv Jan 20 2008, 10:17 PM

I'm sorry, but I have to step in to Lithuanians defense here. It's not the same thing to call someone stupid and to call someones opinion stupid, at least for me. HE's just stating his view, and well, he also kind of proved his points with one of the answers he got. I don't want to start a fight or anything, I just wanted to say what I though. Hope it's ok.

Posted by: Owen Jan 20 2008, 10:17 PM

MR FORBES!

Posted by: Andrew Cockburn Jan 20 2008, 10:22 PM

However phrased, comments like that are inflammatory - fortunately Matt is mature enough to not rise to it. There are better ways to say these things such as "I don't agree".

I'm not disagreeing with the point made by Lithuanian, courteous discussion is great. Calling peoples opinions stupid however is not, and we will mod it accordingly.

Posted by: Owen Jan 20 2008, 10:24 PM

Ding Ding Ding!

Round one goes to Papa Cockburn!

Posted by: swingline Jan 20 2008, 10:59 PM

I think it is okay to disagree but in a "agree to disagree" manner. Respect is the key. If someone doesn't like Metallica don't stoop down to Youtube status and knock him/her, just accept it. That person's dislike doesn't hurt you at all, does it. So instead of saying "Your an idiot, you don't even deserve to pick up a guitar." say "What is it that drives you away from them."

Posted by: Maximus Jan 20 2008, 11:01 PM

Each of us has our own way of responding to a heated debate. Although Matt's method may not resemble yours, he has a right to act as he sees appropriate and share his views without being subjected to derogatory statements. Matt is a respected member of this community precisely because of his calm temperment and easy going nature. Disagreement is fine, name-calling is not.

Posted by: RobM Jan 20 2008, 11:09 PM

I understand both sides of this conversation but it's not as easy for someone non english speaking to rerphrase something to sound "politically correct" as it would be for say me or you Andrew. For someone with little english speaking never mind writing (a whole new ball game there) abilityit's hard to say what they really mean.

I'm sure most of you know that a lot of words in the english language can be spoken as many other words in another language. So when someone says that's stupid maybe they meant that's not too bright or I disagree or thats wrong? Who knows I'm just trying to play the devils advocate here.

I've noticed since there were so many people named to be senior members/moderators some of them have the tendancy to circle the wagons and join forces really quickly whenever there is someone on the board saying something even at the fringe of the rules. If this kind of thing continues GMC could get the reputation that you are not allowed to make mistakes without having people jump on you.

I can tell you from past experience on other boards that if this proves to be the case you will end up having a lot of people who are looking for trouble come here and you mods will end up spending all of your time editing posts and issuing warnings/banning people.

I'm all for having a board free from foul language and other insults, but when the editing of posts etc.. gets to the point where the true feel and flow of the discussion(s) is affected then thats being too heavy handed. people should have the right to discuss things the way they want to within reason or else they will just sit back and ot say much of anything and then you mods will have only yourselves to read and moderate.

Lot's of us are not as gifted as a lot of you when it comes to writing what and how we feel and when I see someone get jumped on several times for saying something is stupid then I start to worry where GMC is headed. I hope you guys get what I'm trying to say here?

Posted by: Andrew Cockburn Jan 20 2008, 11:25 PM

My initial comment was quite mild actually - more in the nature of guidance and suggestion than anything else. This should not be a surprise to anyone who has read the posting guidelines. Debate and discussion is encouraged, name calling is not, that's all. As moderators we are always walking a line between letting people interact freely, and keeping order, we take it seriously, and often agonize behind the scenes over whether to let things be or to step in. I'm gratified that several people stepped in to reinforce the point - none of them were mods or seniors. Most of the time the GMC community is self policing in this respect - I just got there first this time.

Regarding English as a second language, yes I have a lot of sympathy for that. However, if I misunderstand, then the person it was aimed at might also misunderstand. I am just trying to keep things civil and nip any potential problems in the bud.

Posted by: RobM Jan 21 2008, 02:03 AM

I understand that but correcting someone in public even the first time might make them decide to never post again and then go off and talk about their bad experience here at GMC. I feel that when it's something minor like the situation we're talking about then it should not even have been made into anything and then handled behind the scene with a PM explianing the rules and how what was said could have started something that is not wanted here and to choose their words more carefully the next time. He even asked if what he said came out correctly.

I mean you're the mod you handled it how you saw fit, it's just that when I saw it and whoever else may see it in the future they might feel like I did that it was over kill.

Posted by: The Uncreator Jan 21 2008, 02:04 AM

You took the words right off my keyboard
+1

Posted by: Andrew Cockburn Jan 21 2008, 02:27 AM

Thats a fair point, but handling it behind the scenes with a PM is generally more serious and gets him a warning on his record - I was trying to take the kinder option and keep things low key believe it or not ...

Anyway, this feels weird because we're talking about Lithuanian in public and that seems wrong.

Lithuanian, what was meant to be a minor reminder about being polite has been picked up by others and blown out of proportion, that was not my intention - sorry. However my original point stands - lets all be try and be thoughtful about how we phrase our comments to others - which is in fact the original point of the original thread in the first place

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Jan 21 2008, 08:36 AM

I agree with what's been said about this comment - I would be slightly offended by if I got to hear that something I said was stupid.



Awesome description Muris!

Posted by: mattacuk Jan 21 2008, 09:16 AM

Im pretty amaized how a small comment I made ages ago about how I like to respect peoples veiws has come back and caused so much trouble out of knowhere

Maybe this Illustrates just why I like to be so polite on forums

Posted by: fkalich Jan 21 2008, 09:44 AM

I suspect that as his language is not English, he was not aware that the word was a bit strong. I don't disagree with Matt, and we need peacemakers, which I think is the kind of role Matt would play. But we also need some blunt honesty, even if it hurts a bit. Look at any coach, they don't sweet talk to the players all the time. Here is an example of our football coach this year. A player got a penalty for celebrating a touchdown, and they were able to pick up the coach ripping the player a new one. Still we lost only 1 game all year, won the Orange Bowl, one of the top post season bowls. Clearly he is a good coach.

Warning...if you are offended by the 'f' word, don't listen.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=zmAYpAzNB34

Posted by: MickeM Jan 21 2008, 10:36 AM

Well, I browsed this through.
Let's sum it up as I see it.

Matt got one of his desicions judged as stupid, and since Matt made the desicion in the first and is the one who have to stand for it, that makes the comment by Lithuanian rather rude. Probably came out wrong but written as it was, still not nice.

A public correction of Lithuanian was a good desicion, that also shows others we're above youtube level here.

RobM publicly criticise moderators work, takes a breath and then says that public critisism isn't the way to go, it should be kept in PM's.

And probably Lithuanian as a new member isn't enjoying the negative focus he's getting for his post.

This thread is on a more important subject on how to beave towards instructors.
What's now being discussed is OT OT OT OT!!! Let's drop it! If anyone wants to contine please start another thread.

Posted by: Lithuanian Jan 21 2008, 05:17 PM

Dont worry, I'm quite used to negativity. I comment and discuss in alot of forums where not everyone agrees with my opinion.

Okay, the word stupid may not be the right word in that sentence. English is not my first nor my second language so I may express my opinion in a wrong way sometimes. I appoligize if I have offended Matt.



I didn't want to call Matt stupid. I'm new on this board, I dont know nothing about its members so far. I just called Matt's opinion stupid, and I agree, that was a pretty wrong word. I have edited my first post.

And also: just dont get the wrong idea. I understand Muris'es "unpolite guy" description was reffered to me. These are my first days of GMC, and though I made a bad start (thanks to my lack of English grammar knowledge), I want people not to think Im one of those unpolite guys.

Posted by: Andrew Cockburn Jan 21 2008, 06:00 PM

Its ok Lithuanian, I think you have shown by your apology that you are not one of those impolite guys

Posted by: The Uncreator Jan 21 2008, 06:09 PM

Well you apologized for your actions, and admitted what you did was wrong, that earns respect in my book

Posted by: DeepRoots Jan 21 2008, 06:23 PM

+1

Im fairly sure nobody here wants to hold a grudge, especially after an apology

Posted by: mattacuk Jan 21 2008, 07:19 PM

I take no offence Lithuanian! Keep on rocking

Posted by: Staples Feb 5 2008, 12:25 PM

No! If I understood him correctly he means we need to set eachother on fire.

Posted by: Smells Feb 5 2008, 12:47 PM

? not sure I understand your reply? sarcasm perhaps?

Posted by: Staples Feb 5 2008, 12:52 PM

Sarcasm and caffiene. Yes.

Posted by: Smells Feb 5 2008, 01:40 PM

well, maybe try replying to the topic instead, after all this thread is all about being polite

Posted by: OrganisedConfusion Feb 5 2008, 02:23 PM

W****R

lol. I'm joking of course but everybody needs to chill. This site is miles more polite than any other forum and there will be arguments due to miscommunication between people of different languages and cultures and it is good to have some discussion on a message board and to hear people's opinions. Just be nice to people. No calling people stupid or that they have an opinion that is wrong. Nobody has a wrong opinion on a subject, it is just a different viewpoint that everybody has of the world. If people had the same opinion everybody would be walking around in the same clothes, listening to the same music, eating the same food and acting in the same way. This would be no fun.

Lets keep the calm atmosphere that is at GMC and respect the instructors as they don't have to be here. They are talented enough to be picked up by any other website. They clearly like GMC and making lessons here so don't ruin it for the rest of us by treating them badly as they may leave if things got bad

Posted by: kyldeee Feb 5 2008, 02:36 PM

Hear Hear

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Feb 5 2008, 03:00 PM

We have a problem here - this thread is about being polite.

Being UNpolite in here is the fastest and most effective way to get full moderator force attention - which is what has just happened.

Staples I do not see where your comment is coming from (or where you want to get with it) - but you are now under moderator surveillance.

Posted by: audiopaal Mar 23 2008, 11:53 PM

I don't think these rules should be hard to follow by anyone here.
This is by far the best forum I've ever been involved in and that's why I'm here all the time
Everyone here is nice and if there's some disagreement it's always in form of a constructive critisism, at least that's my experience. And that's also one of the things I appreciate about GMC

As far as being nice to the instructors, I think that's a given!
But I also believe we should be nice to all the other members, not just the Instructors

And Kris; you've done a great job with these forums!
If not for you there would'nt be instructors, seniors and/or members here at all.
I see you're giving thanks to the Moderators, seniors and instructors in threads here on these forums, but don't you think you deserve a Thanks as well? Because I do!

So thanks Kris, keep up the good work
And thanks to all the GMC staff, Moderators, Instructors, Seniors and of course the Members for making these forums a great place to be!

Posted by: cony71 Jan 5 2009, 05:27 PM

The thing is that our egos are very well developed, without them we could stand anything, and remember ego is not equal to your factual you.
My advice get into the fridge and wait for a better coming humanity or evolve to another level where harm in words is just a joke.

Posted by: Dreamcatcher Jan 6 2009, 06:31 AM

I realise this is an older post but I feel it being bumped isn't such a bad thing...we all need reminding from time to time how we affect others. I wanted to simply chime in with my 2 cents if I may. For the little time I have been here I have come to respect the instructors I have met...and the regular members alike. For me a simple put down would be catastrophic..and my ego is low enough about my guitar playing. I'm not perfect and will never be perfect...but I try and I want to learn. Isnt that what we are really here for to learn from the experience these instructors have to offer? I also want to point out that written word loses its annunciation (verbal tone changes) so sometimes something as simple as sarcasm and jokin around could be taken totally wrong....this is a fact of life. We all need to be aware of this and try not to jump to conclusions too quickly. GMC is a vast global community of many who communicate in english..but I am positive this is a secondary language for alot of people here. As for malicous people and bad attitudes and such well...I'm sure you have figured out by now GMC isn't your kinda place really. This is a school of sorts and should be treated as such in many ways...you paid to learn..not to come here and spread misery and gloom to all those who are trying to learn something. I can also understand feeling your right about something and trying to defend your position...if you feel you have to defend your point ..use the least aggresive way to phrase it...perhaps this could get a good conversation going versus an argument. In any discusion putting anyone down or verbally assaulting them is just about the most absurd thing anyone can do because it will never end nicely. Do unto others !!!!!!...now I'm off to my next lesson.....Peace

Posted by: Muris Varajic Jan 6 2009, 10:46 AM

English IS my secondary language and I surely didn't understand
few sentences that you wrote but never mind,
keep rocking and have fun at GMC.

Posted by: Enucleation Jan 6 2009, 10:59 AM

You know what I think? I think this whole community is lame! None of you can play guitar to save your life, especially that Muris dude... that guy sucks.

Your all jerks and should have your fingers broken so you cant play guitar!!!











I love you guys

Posted by: Muris Varajic Jan 6 2009, 11:09 AM

Are you talking to me??You talking to me?? (DeNiro's voice)

Posted by: Canis Jan 6 2009, 11:37 AM

I haven't seen much bad stuff going on here, and I guess that's due to some kind of unearthly (I like that word) balance between good and bad, where "bad" has been substituded by "badassery guitarism"

This is such a great community! I love beeing here, and you're all stuck with me for as long as the Internet exists ^^

Posted by: SonofDestiny Jan 6 2009, 11:38 AM

I agree that this should be a rule, but I'm afraid that GMC is very capable of having censorship. Sometimes I'm on here and it's like I'm taking a walk through a communistic country. Loads of times things are wrong, but nobody is allowed to say it (well they are, but they have to post 100s of in there to make it 'constructive') or else they get banned. That's just my 5 eurocents.

I love GMC though, but I can see a storm coming. What's feedback without honesty? I'd say worthless.

(Oh and I hope that this isn't one of the messages that have to be removed. Sorry if it is!)

Posted by: Boson Jan 6 2009, 11:45 AM

I have just come across this thread and hope that as a relatively new member I am entitled to comment.

I value the friendly and supportive atmosphere of GMC. That is one of the reasons I was happy to pay hard earned cash for it. I also value the high quality of the instructors lessons and it is fantastic that you can actually contact the actual instructor who in my experience have never failed to be friendly, helpful or supportive.

This discussion has rumbled on for quite some time and it is clear that the majority of the membership support the behaviour guidelines outlined by Andrew. We all wish to be part of a friendly community and learn guitar as best we can in a supportive atmosphere. So the bottom line is simple, the GMC staff must simply enforce the rules we all agree are acceptable. Rudeness and bad manners have no place here. If this means banning some members who find this behaviour code difficult then so be it.

This does not prevent discussion or even disagreement, in fact it encourages it as everyone can feel free to have their say safe in the knowledge that it should not result in a tirade of abuse.

Hope this makes sense. Lets get on with playing guitar.

Posted by: Marek Rojewski Jan 6 2009, 11:48 AM

Well there is some truth in what SonofDestiny is talking. But I regard is as the "west world syndrome". I was on a miniature painting forum, where no matter how the mini was painted, all the comments were "superb-like". In fact it was always a hard thing to write something constructive without being regarded as impolite.

So the rule for me is - be nice, if You have something negative to say, don't say anything... Not 100% what I think it should be, but it isn't a high price for maintaining the world class GMC "climate":P

Posted by: OrganisedConfusion Jan 6 2009, 11:54 AM

I'm afraid I have to mark you down on this message of hate. Only 8/10

I hate abusive places. It's like me and my mates were out and about the other day and these people were acting like idiots to us so my mates said to shout abuse at them and I just screamed ABBBBBBBBUUUUUUUUUUUUSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE. They wet themselves. Humour and Intelligence are much better than Abuse and Idiocy.

Posted by: Daniel Robinson Jan 6 2009, 12:00 PM

I agree to a point, although i don't know what posts in general are being talked about there is always a way to give constructive feedback, as long as you take the time to say what you mean. It is very different giving constructive criticism in writing, than face to face. You have to be extra careful about the words you choose so that the meaning is not misunderstood. Hard?...sometimes...but worth it in my opinion

Daniel

Posted by: SonofDestiny Jan 6 2009, 12:10 PM

Yes, you are right in that Daniel, but touching people with silk handshoes will not cause them to get anxious to improve. I always thought my vibrato was cool, until somebody put it straight and told me it was [insert bad smelly word in here].

I am a very sensitive person. I even cried once when somebody was really harsh about my playing! But that gave me reason to improve. I wasn't doing all I could. I'm still not doing all I can. I need to be faced with the facts. And I'm willing to be hurt in exchange for improvement.

Of course, playing the guitar isn't like being in the Navy and I understand that, but constructive criticism on GMC is more like 'wow this is good, this is good, this is awesome, this is brilliant, woooow great phrasing, you could maybe try to improve this a little but that is just subjective I mean it's awesome but you could maybe try to work on that a little'. Do you see what I'm saying? Silk handshoes..

Obviously I'm exaggerating a bit there, but it comes VERY close in my opinion and I think it's a shame!

Posted by: OrganisedConfusion Jan 6 2009, 12:15 PM

I must admit I like being told exactly how it is. I'd rather know my bad parts truthfully than have them covered up with people trying to be nice. You can be honest without being nasty. Like if I said to you say I liked your melody ideas in the solo but they were a bit sloppy and if you practiced the lines with a metronome you could have a really great solo completed. So this is saying yeah your ideas are good but your playing needs to catch up that little bit with your ideas.

That isn't being nasty and that's exactly what I want to hear. It's a whole world away from just saying to somebody they suck and should just give up with guitar.

Posted by: Enucleation Jan 6 2009, 12:18 PM

Awesome man. Yeah my grammar is hideous.


As far as SonofDestiny's comment. I' say it holds water but I don't think it is a big deal. I think you can get the same improvement from someone being polite about your problems as someone being rude.

Edit: I suppose I'd like to be told how to improve but let's not turn this into youtube with the whole "Give up at life" attitude

Posted by: SonofDestiny Jan 6 2009, 12:22 PM

Yeah, but most of the time you don't get an alarm bell ringing when reading feedback. It's like: well, you can improve it, but if you don't you still rock. That's my main point

Posted by: OrganisedConfusion Jan 6 2009, 12:22 PM

I think what he means is people are scared of giving constructive criticism. So people are afraid to say your vibrato isn't so good and it's letting you down. If you add more vibrato in to your playing it will add more feeling to your melodic lines. That isn't being rude that is just trying to help. I think that is what he means. I don't think this place will ever be as bad as youtube lol.

Posted by: utak3r Jan 6 2009, 12:25 PM

True.
To be honest I'm here just for hearing things like this, so I can improve. The key to a problem is a capability of constructive criticism... Saying just your soloing s**cks won't help you at all. But pointing for example timing or bending or whatever - yeah, it's helpful.

Posted by: Enucleation Jan 6 2009, 12:28 PM

Exactly. Telling someone what the problem is so we can fix it why everyone is here right? I don't know if I've ever really seen it to be a big problem here.

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Jan 6 2009, 12:28 PM

So GMC is communistic because the only way you can say what you want - is to use smileys?

To me that sounds like the definition of a perfect democracy!

A little reminder - communism deported people because there was a suspicion that - maybe - they thought differently.

Wait I forgot to use a smiley...

Posted by: Smells Jan 6 2009, 12:29 PM

spot on, it doesnt take a great deal of thought to point someone in the right direction.

I cant see any gain in telling someone "man, your vibrato sucks big time!" and leaving it at that.

you can be told that with just a slight change of words, "if you work on your vibrato it`ll sound a lot better, at the moment its a little weak"

if you want to be extra helpful you could find (or you may know of one) a lesson on GMC that is vibrato specific.

more often than not, the same comment can come up several times in the feedback, thats a pretty good sign that yea, you gotta work on your vibrato! and have you been offended? chances are probably not.

I dont agree with the "man, that sucks" approach, personally it wouldnt bother me too much, but it opens up a can of worms, and the forum in general would disintegrate into a place that wouldnt be very pleasant to post uploads or anything in general, just take a look at youtube etc, no thanks

Posted by: Enucleation Jan 6 2009, 12:31 PM

Dude that's cold

Posted by: Bondy Jan 6 2009, 12:37 PM

I was on a Marshall forum the other day and a senior member!!! was f-ing and blinding at this poor bloke just because he wanted to get his SRV sound spot on, It was awful and reminded me how good the GMC forum is and why i love it so much; you dont have to put up with that sort of abuse here.

Posted by: fkalich Jan 6 2009, 12:44 PM

I read you. I pretty much just take the advice of the Beehive anymore

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8F7_35LQg4

Posted by: utak3r Jan 6 2009, 12:45 PM

Very true, I can confirm.... I'm from Poland and I have enough years on my back to know it

Posted by: lcsdds Jan 6 2009, 12:46 PM

GMC is by far the friendliest forum I have been on. I have been on other guitar forums where threads will go on for pages bashing someone's youtube video etc. There is a wide spectrum of skill levels on this forum, but as was said earlier, we are all here because we love the guitar and we all have aspirations of being able to play at a high skill level. Hopefully we can all continue to be polite but constructive with our criticism on these boards. I love this place.

Posted by: Oxac Jan 6 2009, 12:47 PM

This doesn't really affect most of GMC's users, I mean... We've followed them from the beginning. But it's still good to filter out the ones that disturbs the peace so to speak.

Posted by: wrk Jan 6 2009, 12:56 PM

I know what you mean and i think sometimes quite similar, but i'm fully convinced that this is the way to go to create and to keep a place like GMC.

GMC is a community, where people know each other after a while and are able to evaluate there progress. Progress of each member is noticeable over time and i think it is important to say/hear this to keep motivation. Comments here are mostly based on personal progress. Youtube is the opposite example, most of the people don't know you there and compare your skills to others, which unfortunately will reduce words like "awesome" and "brilliant". This gives maybe an more objective opinion, but to turn those comments into motivation is sometimes hard to take.

Posted by: Boson Jan 6 2009, 01:15 PM

Very 80,s made me smile!

Posted by: SonofDestiny Jan 6 2009, 01:22 PM

Am I not being ridiculed by thinking differently right now?

Have you ever read the book 1984 by George Orwell? That's what I meant by comparing GMC to communism. If you think about it deeply (well not even deeply as it's pretty obvious) it's exactly the thing that's happening right now.

Look, if you guys want 'constructive' criticism, go ahead, but it just pisses me off that when I want to get neg's I get hamburgerfeedback with a tiny burger. And it's not because people don't want to say it, but because they are scared of others.

"War is Peace; Freedom is Slavery; Ignorance is Strength." Read the book... 1984

Posted by: Fsgdjv Jan 6 2009, 01:38 PM

Actually, I think you can get pretty good feedback on this forum, with people still being polite. I'm not a huge fan of everyone being overly polite with each others, and I think there is some kind of space between where we are right now and where it gets too much of people being unpolite, but I definetly prefer this over any other forum on the internet. It feels great to not have to worry about being flamed for everything you say.

Posted by: fkalich Jan 6 2009, 01:52 PM

Kris does not ridicule, he is a kidder. I am sure in person that is obvious, but body language is not on internet. Happens to me all the time, a word or phrase has a connotation to someone, that was not intended at all, it really can't be avoided to an extent.

I find comfort in Quantum Physics theory on such subjects. When you really begin to grasp what that all means (and that all evidence supports it to be true), well what the heck? When you consider that, sheesh, I mean, when there really is a infinitesimally small possibility that I could vanish from earth and find myself somewhere in the Andromeda Galaxy at any moment, well sheesh, not going to worry about little things.

Posted by: berko Jan 6 2009, 01:58 PM

Interesting stuff and yeah, I've read the book (a couple of times even). I've read your previous post on this thread as well and I see (I hope I do) what you mean.

Still, the comments received from each other will alway remain relative. Many of us see each other's progress, many of us do not. If you want to remain objective about someone's playing, you'll basically have to keep up with the progress he/she makes. If there's a bad vibrato in an upload, it can bleed your ears but perhaps after a few months of playing it's still better to give it an attempt (and record it) by the uploader than playing without feel for the first few years. Objective in my dictionary is also relative. If we criticize each other then the feedbacks given will bare a totally different meaning to everyone. So basically if there is a vid that s--ks but still resembles guitar playing and it's obvious that the person playing in it only started a month ago, or if we encounter the complete opposite: great playing with minor mistakes, we can post our comments with smileys and then include what we would like to see to be improved. It's basically the duty of every one of us to read this "objective" polite comment the way we want to. If it's just generally polite, it could mean that our playing is overall good, but not outstanding and could be improved. If it's enthusiastic, then it can mean something better. If it's full of advices and there is a humble at the end then it's the comment of someone how took his/her time to write feedback but would like to hear some more entertaining playing next time.

Oh, btw the Orwell novel is really an exaggerated version and narration of communism. In reality (especially in China, Russia and the eastern European states) the communism was less systematic, much more kept in secret, nobody knew the rules and was thousand time bloodier. In my opinion, although it was creative to bring this book as an example, for many of us (living in the eastern part of Europe) the notion of communism will bring us certain memories and will provide a totally different understanding.

cheers

Posted by: Andrew Cockburn Jan 6 2009, 01:58 PM

Anyone who thinks that criticism isn't allowed has misunderstood both the posting guidelines and the GMC philosophy. Criticism is the most important way we improve, but criticism isn't the same as being rude or negative, they are very different,.

Webseters online dictionary defines Criticism as:

1 a: the act of http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/criticizing usually unfavorably <seeking encouragement rather than [i]criticism> b: a http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/critical observation or remark <an unfair criticism> c: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/critique[/i]
2: the art of evaluating or analyzing works of art or literature ; [i]also : writings expressing such evaluation or analysis <an anthology of literary criticism>[/i]
3: the scientific investigation of literary documents (as the Bible) in regard to such matters as origin, text, composition, or history

We are concerned with meaning number 2 - note that the word rudeness does not appear, instead, we are analyzing and evaluating. Usually, people understand meaning number 1 but not meaning number 2.

Its human psychology that if they are attacked rather than analyzing and seeking out the reasons for the attack and trying to see the other point of view, they just defend themselves. That results in little improvement in most cases because people become resentful. If on the other hand you are analytical and evaluate their playing without attacking them they will learn from it.

Also note, that Criticism, in the form of number 2 does not have to be positive, but it should be constructive.

"Dude your playing is awesome" when it clearly is not, doesn't help anyone.
"Dude your playing sucks" even if it does, doesn't help anyone either.

but, "Some good points there, but you need to work a little on your vibrato, here's a link to a lesson" - that is helpful on many levels, and is what we want to see at GMC.

Posted by: SonofDestiny Jan 6 2009, 02:03 PM

I didn't worry about it, I just thought it odd that criticism on the way things work here aren't taken 100% seriously. I've complained once about something in GMC per PM and I never even got a reply. Even though GMC is cheap I am still a costumer and I would like to know what's up and what I'm really buying. (Oh and if you saw my body language here you would know that I'm not stressing at all nor trying to annoy anyone with my comments .)

Oh and about the kidder. I didn't take it too seriously, but it did kind of support my point of view. It's also a bit weird that GMC is so subtle with everything, except when there's criticism.

EDIT: I think I'll just shut up. Once you get me going I don't want to stop arguing. I think we all want the same thing: progress. You want to achieve it your way and I want to achieve it the way which works best for me. The way you describe it, Andrew, does not work for me. All I want is for people to be able to give me criticism in the way that I will make most progress of.

I hope I didn't hurt anyone's feelings by being honest for once, but I thought it was time to say it.

Oh and berko: yeah that's true. It is exaggerated. I should have said Orwelian communism instead I suppose

Posted by: Ajmurrell Jan 6 2009, 02:20 PM

I've read through your posts and I understand what you are saying (I think!) but to be honest my experience has been quite different on GMC.

When I have made uploads and posts with the intention of getting constructive critiscm, I've recieved it. I started learning emir's Vinnie moore solo about a month and a half ago, and have made several uploads and also recieved many constructive critiscms from emir personally and other members.

I think GMC has struck a perfect balance in regards to how they approach giving constructive feedback and areas to improve. There's a healthy level of praise (and in my opinion, not overly) coupled with area's to improve in most cases I've seen.

If you wish to have a more direct, in depth opinion and critique on your playing I suggest you stress that point when you make a post, so that people understand that you want that kind of feedback.

Uploading a video/take of your playing on to a forum full of very acomplished players is hard to do for many of us, no matter what ability you're at. I would worry that many people would be put off asking for help if via uploads if GMC focused too much on the blunt critiscm.

There's a wide group of age ranges and levels on this forum which I presume all would want fair and honest advice on how to improve, but a huge part of teaching is keeping people motivated to learn. My motivation to show my progress on certain lessons or techniques would be severly demolished if there was little praise on your progress, even if there are many areas that need a lot of work.

Just my opinion.

Posted by: Eat-Sleep-andJam Jan 6 2009, 02:37 PM

I agree with what your saying to a point. I also agree with the Son of Destiny.

Often, I find people being nice to others about their playing, when criticism is often essential to that person.

Sure it would be great if everyone talked like Andrew's last example ( "Some good points there....") but the reality is that we dont.

I am proposing that we make a Sticky on Proper Criticism. That way we wont even have to look at this thread and we can all help each other really improve.

Believe me, there all people that do give great feedback here, and pinpoint mistakes, but not everyone. Im guilty of that aswell.

A little bit of honesty can go along way, and I feel like sometimes we beat around the bush a little to much just for the sake of being "Nice".

Just sharing some of my thoughts......

Posted by: Carlos Carrillo Jan 6 2009, 02:55 PM

I believe that if it is the better thing for "our" beautiful community, we all must agree! And yes!! I said "our", because GMC are we all! All! Members, seniors, instructors... Each and every one of us are done by us that this community continues forward! If we all go for the same place, we will obtain our goals!
I believe also that it is important not to lose the good education! In addition, its good be respectful and Funny!

Carlos-...

Posted by: kaznie_NL Jan 6 2009, 03:05 PM

So this thread is active again Well there is one thing I want to say:
Sometimes people post stuff, and they tried very hard, but there's a little mistake that they don't see. I think you should be able to give some critics. On this forum when I want to say that someone might try to use a bit more vibrato, I have to immediatly say "but I think it sounds awesome!" I don't mean that everyone should go "you suck..." but like Andrew sad ""Dude your playing is awesome" when it clearly is not, doesn't help anyone." is also very true!

I hope people can get a bit sharper, but not to much. When I post something and a guy says "that sounds quite nice" I don't feel really happy because I still don't know what he thought about it. When i post something horrible, I think I should be told (in a normal, sophisticated way) what I have to work on and that it's not "quite nice".

I hope I made the point without sounding like someone who wants to have negative comments everywhere. I think you should be able to post a negative comment, with a positive feeling to it... got it??

Posted by: OrganisedConfusion Jan 6 2009, 03:09 PM

Your vibrato sucks but may angels bless your every move and you live a very healthy life.

Your bends need work as if they are spot on your takes will sound more professional (but it was still incredible)

The bit in bold is the bit that people tend to add unnecessarily. The first line is just a joke

Posted by: kaznie_NL Jan 6 2009, 03:13 PM

Exactly!! While without it that's great. For me, it's the best way of giving critics. Telling peole what they do wrong, how to improve it and then make a positive vibe by telling they're on the right track!

Posted by: Andrew Cockburn Jan 6 2009, 03:35 PM

That's exactly right!

Posted by: Ivan Milenkovic Jan 6 2009, 03:52 PM

Communication culture concept that is accepted at GMC is something that represents one of the cornerstones of this community, and it should not be underestimated. On the surface it may appear to someone that everyone is un-really nice to everyone, maybe someone will say too polite, but this kind of a communication is really based on a common sense in humans. Text communication is a lot different (limited) than live communication, but text communication offers a degree of immunity and anonymity. When you talk to someone in real world you will hardly say to someone "you are no good", "you're playing sucks" and other very uncool things that can be found on YT comments for example.
Think about if any of us would participate in communication in real life where participants bash each other and say bad things. I think many would leave that communication not having good experiences at all. So motivation to come to GMC and to have a polite conversation with one another, and knowing that you will be welcomed here in a positive atmosphere is something that has a lot of value that is bound to last. Even if you do not directly agree with someone on something in general positive communication climate you will quickly forget about it and continue to keep the conversation constructive and balanced.

Posted by: timono Jan 6 2009, 04:01 PM

exactly, it is very easy to say someone sucks when you don't see the person. If i sometimes read the things people say on youtube... it would really make me feel miserable if I would be treated like that (even if it would really suck ).

I also think the constructive critisism given on GMC works. People say to you what they think of it and what you can improve. It's simple and effective. it is something not commonly found in an internet community and it should stay that way!!

Timon

Posted by: Jesse Jan 6 2009, 04:03 PM

I didn't know there were this serious problems.:|

I didn't know there were this serious problems.:|

Posted by: Jeff Jan 6 2009, 04:06 PM

Criticism is like that friend who always asks to borrow something but never pays it back. Eventually you just ignore him. Encouragement works, criticism does not.

Posted by: Jesse Jan 6 2009, 04:19 PM

Constructive criticism!

Posted by: Dreamcatcher Jan 6 2009, 04:55 PM

I think saying a person sucks or dumping on them is just a totally wrong approach...simple enough...and that type of behavior should be dealt with truthfully. I don't think anyone here regards critisism as a bad thing as long as its constructive. I do not believe anyone is talking about censoring anyone who holds a different view or has used constructive critisism. As far as I am to understand its people who are just being malicious in nature and rude. I could be wrong but its how I see whats being said. Just respect others around you is a simple thing really.

Example1 "I think you should try to use less distortion in that piece it may bring out a little more clarity in that solo" (good example of how to constructivly critique)

Example2 "wow man you suck that distortion really is awful" Bad example of a critique

the first example points the person in the right direction...the second just puts them down and is a rude way to approach the situation.

Posted by: OrganisedConfusion Jan 6 2009, 05:00 PM

But what people are meaning is that on this site they'd feel the need to add "I think you should try to use less distortion in that piece it may bring out a little more clarity in that solo, but either way your playing is of godlike proportions"

That bit in bold just isn't needed.

Posted by: enforcer Jan 6 2009, 05:20 PM

As I feel I am now a part of this beautiful community, I felt the urge of commenting here.

I seriously believe that to be honest has nothing near to be rude. And as being rude is a subjective matter (you can call someone sob (sorry for that) and this person may still laugh with you, and call that another one and he'll try to murder you) there is no virtual limits to it. If it is allowed some people will keep going until the darkest depths of human imagination while others won't. And this will diminish the average quality in the forums and will start to ignite hostilities. I think that kind of behaviour is not acceptable even if it restricts your freedom of speech. But we are all intelligent sentient life forms here, and we can transform our raw output to a more polite form.

I strictly refuse that "motivation requires aggression" idea, yeah one effective way may be that, but it brings more problem than it actually solves and it is contagious, if you do that to someone, that will trigger the fact that he, in his turn, will do the same to anyone, and following that path will lead us to a GMC where everybody may be great players but unnecessary and meaningless rivalities arise. And really if you feel that you can not actually be comfortable without saying whatever you want, I see there a great problem for you, because living in a community has its prerequest of loosing the freedom of saying and doing whatever one wants. You can try it, but in the point of offending some other's freedom there will be consequences.


I want to finish my words with a quote of some green little creature who is known to be very wise and though jedi for almost 900 years:

"Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny..."

Posted by: Dreamcatcher Jan 6 2009, 05:23 PM

yeah I agree ya don't have to over do it...unless thats how you feel...like on muris's GI submission...jaw dropping godlike guitar playing lol ...

Uh-Oh...anyone seen a U turn around here anywhere????

Posted by: skennington Jan 6 2009, 06:18 PM

I personally feel that Andrew has sumed it up in the first 3 sections of the posting guidelines....

The Rules

1. Always be aware that when writing as opposed to speaking, there are far more opportunities for misunderstandings. Emoticons go a long way to help with this, but always re-read your post before you hit the send button and ask yourself, could this be misunderstood?

2. Always positive feedback, never negative feedback! This doesn't mean that we always agree, and always say everything is great, its about the way we approach feedback and criticism. For example, if someone posts a recording of themselves and it has some flaws. Don't say "Dude, that sucked, you really need to learn to play". Say something like "Cool, a really good attempt, I liked the feel of it. I would suggest you tighten up the rhythm work a little, and pay a little more attention to your vibrato". That second comment makes the player feel good about what he has achieved, and more importantly gives him some pointers for the future. The flip side of this is that if someone has taken time to give you feedback, you should thank them for it.

3. Disagree with respect. We don't always agree with each other - and debate is a great thing on GMC - it allows everyone to see all sides of an argument. If you disagree with someone don't get personal. Respect their point of view, and realize that what you say is just your point of view - both are valid. So instead of saying "you crazy fool, holding a pick like that is for monkeys", you could say "That's pretty unusual, I do it this way because it steadies my hand better and I can hybrid pick, but whatever works for you!"

Posted by: enforcer Jan 6 2009, 07:02 PM

You just missed the last turn before the bridge which is out.

Posted by: Marek Rojewski Jan 6 2009, 07:03 PM

You see, I can't say "Cool, a really good attempt, I liked the feel of it. I would suggest you tighten up the rhythm work a little, and pay a little more attention to your vibrato" because for example I:
1. don't think it is cool
2. don't think it is a good attempt
3. didn't like it
4. I suggest to tighten up the rhythm work without adding the word "little"
5. I suggest to pay more attention to vibrato without adding the word "little".

Of course I won't write "ah dude, that sounded like a dying cat". Still I think a better way of commenting would be "I would suggest you tighten up the rhythm work, and pay more attention to your vibrato. Here are some lessons that can help LINK LINK LINK, and remember to always use the metronome".

I know it is hard not to sound harsh, but writing fantasy stuff like "cool attempt" while I think it is a poor one is false...

IMPORTANT NOTE: I am writing this because we are theorizing here, not because I had such bad problems in the past.

Posted by: OrganisedConfusion Jan 6 2009, 07:11 PM

You'd say something like "You're trying to play too quickly for your current standard. I'd advise slowing it down by 10 bpm and play to a metronome and then speed up gradually until you can play at this speed. It will sharpen up your playing and you will certainly impress more people with your standard. Remember playing things smoothly and well is better than making sketchy quick recordings."

This basically is saying you don't think they did it well but with a bit of work they can do it and I did it politely or do you not agree?

Posted by: Marek Rojewski Jan 6 2009, 07:16 PM

You are right OC, that comment would be better than the one I proposed, and we should aim at such standard. Still my comment wouldn't be the end of the world.

Posted by: Andrew Cockburn Jan 6 2009, 07:31 PM

That's the way I would have phrased it (I was writing the guidelines after all) but your way isn't essentially different - it is still helpful, just a little less adorned. OC's style of comment was also helpful.

Posted by: opeth.db Jan 6 2009, 08:02 PM

Im gone for a couple of days and this happens? 133 posts on how to be polite? Wow.

To me the GMC philosphy is working. I like coming to a place where everyone is super nice. It makes it different than every flame site out there. And to be honest if I paying a monthly fee to be a part of this I expect it.

I'll go out on a limb where I was contacted about conduct that I did and It was held very professional by Andrew and I respect that out of a site. Rather than bringing into a public affair it was held privately. Albeit it was just a misunderstanding the fact on how it was handled was polite, nice and professional.

I hope this didn't have anything to do with my satch/coldplay posts! I sitll love ya OC I mean Paul.

Posted by: showyourfist Jan 6 2009, 08:23 PM

I'm a little confused This thread was made over a year ago, has something else happened?

Posted by: Andrew Cockburn Jan 6 2009, 08:28 PM

No, nothing, someone just resurrected the thread is all!

Posted by: showyourfist Jan 6 2009, 08:35 PM

So that's why I felt the strange sensation of nostalgia as I kept reading through

I'm sure I came across GMC a long time ago.

Posted by: Fsgdjv Jan 6 2009, 09:20 PM

Is it only I who would feel more insulted by someone telling me "oh it's pretty good, but maybe you can start practicing like this, and remember to always practice with a metronome, and remember that wou use the left hand to fret the strings and the right hand to pick with if you're right handed" than someone just telling me "omg, you frikkin suck at this".

If someone is trying to be nice to me it always ends up sounding like they are holding even more critisism back.

I still think the current way things work on gmc are really good and I'd take this over the usual agressive atmosphere, but I thought I'd just add how I feel critisism should be done

Posted by: Fran Jan 6 2009, 09:44 PM

The rules just encourage constructive criticism, which means you can say whatever you want/think in order to help people, but not to bash them.

Pretty good rule in my opinion. That's one of the reasons GMC is a friendly place where we all feel good, and I guess we all want to stay that way

Posted by: g-forcelover Jan 6 2009, 10:02 PM

Also, we need to add that these rules apply for anybody that their playing on the forums.

Posted by: Praetorian Jan 6 2009, 10:38 PM

Wow...I am sorry to see this needs to be posted! What makes this site so spectacular is that everyone is so nice and supportive. I have been a member of other forums in the past years ranging from computers, to cars. Every forum I have ever been a member of, was all people arguing back and forth about tiny matters that end up getting blown out of proportion. This site is a safe haven from all the bickering that caused me to drop off other forums. I love that about this place!

Please try to keep in mind that not all human interaction can come across properly in typed messages. Body language, voice inflection etc. cannot be interpreted merely from reading words. Some posts may be interpreted as insulting when that may not have been the intent. Let's work to keep the mood here supportive and friendly...and let the other forums bicker amongst themselves!

Posted by: Ctodd Jan 6 2009, 10:50 PM

Spot on Ivan! and I'm not just saying that. This right here is a careful explanation of the forces at work when it comes to internet/forum communication (especially when it comes to GMC)




I agree with you partially, I know you probably exaggerated this, but as Ivan stated, people feel the need to be polite, and end their criticism with a more positive note, to avoid sounding mean and rude.

Posted by: THE BUZZARD Jan 6 2009, 11:12 PM

sorry to say but i must have missed what happened here? i hope it has been resolved, i too am very pleased with my GMC community, i,m having such a great time learning so many excellent licks, from awesome instructors like emir, muris, trond, and so many others,too many to lists, again this is so unfortunate, i hope no instructor has been offended to the point of leaving, i,m learning so much from everyone, PLEASE LETS GET BACK TO LEARNING THE GUITAR! thank you very very much!!!!!

Posted by: OrganisedConfusion Jan 6 2009, 11:18 PM

No exaggeration at all Joking of course.


Just a thread that has reappeared from many moons ago lol for no apparent reason

Posted by: dogman Jan 7 2009, 12:47 AM

If I can throw my 2 cents in here,

I think it's going pretty damn good for a site with thousands of egos (I mean cough,cough) guitar players