Alternative Vs Economy
Chokehold
Jul 21 2009, 10:02 PM
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I have never before thought about the way I pick, and thought that what I did was alternative.
And a few days ago I sat down and looked at what I did. Of course it was Economy picking.

But I don't see why you would want to play Alternative picking, as Economy let's you move faster between the strings.

So is there a reason to why you would want to play Alternative, and what is good about it?

And same question about Economy Picking.

Need some answers. smile.gif

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Zeyth
Jul 22 2009, 08:00 PM
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http://tomhess.net/Articles/AlternateVsDir...nalPicking.aspx

Anyone read that yet?


|-3-| |-3-| |--3-| |--3-| |--3--| |--3--|
S S S S S S S S S S S S S S S S S S
E||--------5-7-8--------7-8-10---------8-10-12-||
B||--5-6-8-------7-8-10--------8-10-12---------||
G||--------------------------------------------||
D||--------------------------------------------||
A||--------------------------------------------||
E||--------------------------------------------||


And I can't see why this wouldn't work with the directional picking (things have many names laugh.gif) described in the article I've linked to. ( http://tomhess.net/Articles/AlternateVsDir...nalPicking.aspx )

Aside from that, please explain why "alternate sounds better"??

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lcsdds
Jul 22 2009, 08:18 PM
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QUOTE (Zeyth @ Jul 22 2009, 08:00 PM) *
http://tomhess.net/Articles/AlternateVsDir...nalPicking.aspx

Anyone read that yet?


|-3-| |-3-| |--3-| |--3-| |--3--| |--3--|
S S S S S S S S S S S S S S S S S S
E||--------5-7-8--------7-8-10---------8-10-12-||
B||--5-6-8-------7-8-10--------8-10-12---------||
G||--------------------------------------------||
D||--------------------------------------------||
A||--------------------------------------------||
E||--------------------------------------------||


And I can't see why this wouldn't work with the directional picking (things have many names laugh.gif) described in the article I've linked to. ( http://tomhess.net/Articles/AlternateVsDir...nalPicking.aspx )

Aside from that, please explain why "alternate sounds better"??


It wouldn't work because every time you change strings on a two string lick like that you are changing direction. To change the direction your pick is moving.....from a higher string to a lower string or vice versa.....you need an EVEN number of notes on the string so you can "sweep" it. If you start that lick on an upstroke then when you are ready to change strings your pick will be moving up and you want it to be moving down......if you start on a down stroke your pick will be going in the right direction to sweep to the E string. So you will start picking the E string with a downstroke and when you are ready to move back to the B string your pick will be going down instead of up......to change directions you need an even number of notes on the string. This is why economy picking licks need to be "planned" out for the most part. Unless you are Frank Gambale and it is just so ingrained in your muscle memory that you don't have to think about it anymore. But he just has a billion stock licks that he combines I would imagine. Economy picking fits a specific mathmatical formula.......Odd number of notes on a string to keep your pick going in the same direction and an even number to change your picking direction.


smile.gif

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This post has been edited by lcsdds: Jul 22 2009, 08:25 PM
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Zeyth
Jul 22 2009, 08:48 PM
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QUOTE (lcsdds @ Jul 22 2009, 08:18 PM) *
It wouldn't work because every time you change strings on a two string lick like that you are changing direction. To change the direction your pick is moving.....from a higher string to a lower string or vice versa.....you need an EVEN number of notes on the string so you can "sweep" it. If you start that lick on an upstroke then when you are ready to change strings your pick will be moving up and you want it to be moving down......if you start on a down stroke your pick will be going in the right direction to sweep to the E string. So you will start picking the E string with a downstroke and when you are ready to move back to the B string your pick will be going down instead of up......to change directions you need an even number of notes on the string. This is why economy picking licks need to be "planned" out for the most part. Unless you are Frank Gambale and it is just so ingrained in your muscle memory that you don't have to think about it anymore. But he just has a billion stock licks that he combines I would imagine. Economy picking fits a specific mathmatical formula.......Odd number of notes on a string to keep your pick going in the same direction and an even number to change your picking direction.


smile.gif


Then I must have discovered a whole new picking technique: Zeyth picking laugh.gif Or someone hasn't read the article I linked to laugh.gif


Tab 1 A and B
|-3-| |-3-| |--3-| |--3-| |--3--| |--3--|
S S S S S S S S S S S S S S S S S S
A D U D U D U D U D U D U D U D U D U
B U D U D U D U D U D U D U D U D U D
E||--------5-7-8--------7-8-10---------8-10-12-||
B||--5-6-8-------7-8-10--------8-10-12---------||
G||--------------------------------------------||
D||--------------------------------------------||
A||--------------------------------------------||
E||--------------------------------------------||


Edited tab to feature the two possible picking patterns to use with alternate picking (correct me if I'm wrong laugh.gif)


Tab 2
|-3-| |-3-| |--3-| |--3-| |--3--| |--3--|
S S S S S S S S S S S S S S S S S S
D U D D U D ERROR!!!!!!!!!
E||--------5-7-8--------7-8-10---------8-10-12-||
B||--5-6-8-------7-8-10--------8-10-12---------||
G||--------------------------------------------||
D||--------------------------------------------||
A||--------------------------------------------||
E||--------------------------------------------||


This is what you try to say?

If we take economy picking, and add a little wasted motion, couldn't we get something similar to:

Tab 3
|-3-| |-3-| |--3-| |--3-| |--3--| |--3--|
S S S S S S S S S S S S S S S S S S
D U D D U D D U D D U D D U D D U D
E||--------5-7-8--------7-8-10---------8-10-12-||
B||--5-6-8-------7-8-10--------8-10-12---------||
G||--------------------------------------------||
D||--------------------------------------------||
A||--------------------------------------------||
E||--------------------------------------------||


Likewise:


Tab 4
|-3-| |-3-| |--3-| |--3-| |--3--| |--3--|
S S S S S S S S S S S S S S S S S S
U D U U D U U D U U D U U D U U D U
E||--------5-7-8--------7-8-10---------8-10-12-||
B||--5-6-8-------7-8-10--------8-10-12---------||
G||--------------------------------------------||
D||--------------------------------------------||
A||--------------------------------------------||
E||--------------------------------------------||


Both of these two "economies" feature less wasted motion than tab 1 A.
Of course due to the... String jumping? One could say that it's not really economy picking, but I think economy is more about spending as little as possible, than spending nothing at all laugh.gif


The unfamour Zeyth picking pattern
|-3-| |-3-| |--3-| |--3-| |--3--| |--3--|
S S S S S S S S S S S S S S S S S S
D U D D U D U D U D U D U D U D U D
E||--------5-7-8--------7-8-10---------8-10-12-||
B||--5-6-8-------7-8-10--------8-10-12---------||
G||--------------------------------------------||
D||--------------------------------------------||
A||--------------------------------------------||
E||--------------------------------------------||


I would also like to apologize for any displacements when it comes to having the symbols of the picking pattern above the fret-numbers, and I might as well just excuse my humour while I'm at it laugh.gif

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Chokehold
Jul 22 2009, 09:56 PM
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QUOTE (Zeyth @ Jul 22 2009, 09:48 PM) *

The unfamour Zeyth picking pattern
|-3-| |-3-| |--3-| |--3-| |--3--| |--3--|
S S S S S S S S S S S S S S S S S S
D U D D U D U D U D U D U D U D U D
E||--------5-7-8--------7-8-10---------8-10-12-||
B||--5-6-8-------7-8-10--------8-10-12---------||
G||--------------------------------------------||
D||--------------------------------------------||
A||--------------------------------------------||
E||--------------------------------------------||


This is how I have picked everything so far, I thought it was economy but I'm just another noob then. mellow.gif

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Muris Varajic
Jul 22 2009, 10:00 PM
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QUOTE (Chokehold @ Jul 22 2009, 10:56 PM) *
This is how I have picked everything so far, I thought it was economy but I'm just another noob then. mellow.gif


It was economy but also alternate as well,
take a look how you switch back to B string after high E,
you end with downstroke on high E and then you use upstroke for B,
that's VERY outside for picking
and you would never get into same situation if you used straight alternate picking,
you would end with an upstroke on high E string and B string is in the same direction, up. smile.gif

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Chokehold
Jul 22 2009, 10:02 PM
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QUOTE (Muris Varajic @ Jul 22 2009, 11:00 PM) *
It was economy but also alternate as well,
take a look how you switch back to B string after high E,
you end with downstroke on high E and then you use upstroke for B,
that's VERY outside for picking
and you would never get into same situation if you used straight alternate picking,
you would end with an upstroke on high E string and B string is in the same direction, up. smile.gif


So what do you call it then? smile.gif

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Muris Varajic
Jul 22 2009, 10:06 PM
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QUOTE (Chokehold @ Jul 22 2009, 11:02 PM) *
So what do you call it then? smile.gif


Mix of both I would say,
you used 2 techniques to execute that very 3nps pattern.
But yeah, you made it VERY difficult for you by using economy (sweep)
right from the start, that putted you in outside picking. smile.gif

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Chokehold
Jul 22 2009, 10:22 PM
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QUOTE (Muris Varajic @ Jul 22 2009, 11:06 PM) *
But yeah, you made it VERY difficult for you by using economy (sweep)
right from the start, that putted you in outside picking. smile.gif


Damn. I feel sad now.

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Muris Varajic
Jul 22 2009, 10:26 PM
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QUOTE (Chokehold @ Jul 22 2009, 11:22 PM) *
Damn. I feel sad now.


Happens, cheer up! wink.gif

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Chokehold
Jul 22 2009, 10:48 PM
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QUOTE (Muris Varajic @ Jul 22 2009, 11:26 PM) *
Happens, cheer up! wink.gif


Yeah I will, going to watch a movie and get on with practicing more tomorrow.

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Posts in this topic
- Chokehold   Alternative Vs Economy   Jul 21 2009, 10:02 PM
- - Muris Varajic   Long time question. So, the thing is, alternate ...   Jul 21 2009, 10:10 PM
|- - Chokehold   QUOTE (Muris Varajic @ Jul 21 2009, 11:10...   Jul 21 2009, 10:23 PM
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- - Emir Hot   I am personaly a fan of alternate picking but some...   Jul 21 2009, 10:19 PM
|- - Chokehold   QUOTE (Emir Hot @ Jul 21 2009, 11:19 PM) ...   Jul 21 2009, 10:25 PM
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- - Fingerspasm   I usually refrain from answering technical questio...   Jul 21 2009, 10:24 PM
|- - Chokehold   QUOTE (Fingerspasm @ Jul 21 2009, 11:24 P...   Jul 21 2009, 11:58 PM
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- - Eat-Sleep-andJam   Same thing happened to me man. Do your 1-2-3-4 ...   Jul 21 2009, 10:32 PM
- - vampire18   just wanted to add that i had the exact same probl...   Jul 22 2009, 01:10 AM
|- - Muris Varajic   You might wanna try THIS lesson in as well, it sho...   Jul 22 2009, 01:29 AM
|- - lcsdds   QUOTE (Muris Varajic @ Jul 22 2009, 01:29...   Jul 22 2009, 03:49 AM
|- - Chokehold   QUOTE (Muris Varajic @ Jul 22 2009, 02:29...   Jul 22 2009, 03:23 PM
|- - lcsdds   QUOTE (Chokehold @ Jul 22 2009, 03:23 PM)...   Jul 22 2009, 05:56 PM
|- - Muris Varajic   QUOTE (Chokehold @ Jul 22 2009, 04:23 PM)...   Jul 22 2009, 06:08 PM
|- - lcsdds   QUOTE (Muris Varajic @ Jul 22 2009, 06:08...   Jul 22 2009, 06:28 PM
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- - Pedja Simovic   Emir and Muris are right! Both techniques hav...   Jul 22 2009, 11:53 AM
- - Zeyth   http://tomhess.net/Articles/AlternateVsDir...nalPi...   Jul 22 2009, 03:10 PM
|- - Emir Hot   QUOTE (Zeyth @ Jul 22 2009, 03:10 PM) As ...   Jul 22 2009, 06:14 PM
|- - Muris Varajic   QUOTE (Emir Hot @ Jul 22 2009, 07:14 PM) ...   Jul 22 2009, 07:32 PM
|- - Emir Hot   QUOTE (Muris Varajic @ Jul 22 2009, 07:32...   Jul 22 2009, 07:42 PM
|- - Muris Varajic   QUOTE (Emir Hot @ Jul 22 2009, 08:42 PM) ...   Jul 22 2009, 09:53 PM
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- - Chokehold   Just a quick question, how long will it take until...   Jul 22 2009, 07:43 PM
|- - Emir Hot   QUOTE (Chokehold @ Jul 22 2009, 07:43 PM)...   Jul 22 2009, 07:49 PM
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|||- - Muris Varajic   QUOTE (Chokehold @ Jul 22 2009, 11:48 PM)...   Jul 22 2009, 10:49 PM
|||- - Chokehold   QUOTE (Muris Varajic @ Jul 22 2009, 11:49...   Jul 23 2009, 12:15 AM
|||- - Muris Varajic   QUOTE (Chokehold @ Jul 23 2009, 01:15 AM)...   Jul 23 2009, 12:17 AM
|||- - lcsdds   QUOTE (Muris Varajic @ Jul 23 2009, 12:17...   Jul 23 2009, 12:19 AM
|||- - Muris Varajic   QUOTE (lcsdds @ Jul 23 2009, 01:19 AM) Mu...   Jul 23 2009, 12:20 AM
|||- - Chokehold   QUOTE (lcsdds @ Jul 23 2009, 01:19 AM) Mu...   Jul 23 2009, 12:24 AM
|||- - Muris Varajic   QUOTE (Chokehold @ Jul 23 2009, 01:24 AM)...   Jul 23 2009, 12:26 AM
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||- - lcsdds   QUOTE (Chokehold @ Jul 22 2009, 10:02 PM)...   Jul 22 2009, 10:07 PM
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|- - Emir Hot   QUOTE (Zeyth @ Jul 22 2009, 08:00 PM) Any...   Jul 22 2009, 09:21 PM
|- - Zeyth   QUOTE (Emir Hot @ Jul 22 2009, 09:21 PM) ...   Jul 22 2009, 09:34 PM
|- - Emir Hot   QUOTE (Zeyth @ Jul 22 2009, 09:34 PM) He ...   Jul 22 2009, 09:58 PM
|- - lcsdds   QUOTE (Emir Hot @ Jul 22 2009, 09:58 PM) ...   Jul 22 2009, 10:02 PM
|- - Emir Hot   QUOTE (lcsdds @ Jul 22 2009, 10:02 PM) Di...   Jul 22 2009, 10:04 PM
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- - lcsdds   Not trying to be a jerk Zeyth.....but I don't ...   Jul 22 2009, 09:02 PM
|- - Zeyth   QUOTE (lcsdds @ Jul 22 2009, 09:02 PM) No...   Jul 22 2009, 09:08 PM
|- - lcsdds   QUOTE (Zeyth @ Jul 22 2009, 09:08 PM) Ah,...   Jul 22 2009, 09:14 PM
|- - Zeyth   QUOTE (lcsdds @ Jul 22 2009, 09:14 PM) Bu...   Jul 22 2009, 09:22 PM
|- - lcsdds   QUOTE (Zeyth @ Jul 22 2009, 09:22 PM) Add...   Jul 22 2009, 09:32 PM
|- - Muris Varajic   QUOTE (Zeyth @ Jul 22 2009, 10:22 PM) Add...   Jul 22 2009, 09:57 PM
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- - Vasilije Vukmirovic   When you play economy, you always compromise sound...   Jul 23 2009, 07:12 PM
|- - lcsdds   QUOTE (Vasilije Vukmirovic @ Jul 23 2009, 07...   Jul 23 2009, 08:11 PM
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- - Jose Mena   QUOTE (lcsdds @ Jul 23 2009, 03:11 PM) Wh...   Jul 23 2009, 08:24 PM
|- - Muris Varajic   QUOTE (Jose Mena @ Jul 23 2009, 09:24 PM)...   Jul 23 2009, 10:39 PM
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- - Ivan Zecic   Instead of discussing advantages and disadvantages...   Jul 23 2009, 10:39 PM
- - Jenbu   well I use alternate picking but, when im playing ...   Jul 24 2009, 10:10 PM
|- - Muris Varajic   QUOTE (Jenbu @ Jul 24 2009, 11:10 PM) wel...   Jul 25 2009, 02:49 AM
|- - lcsdds   QUOTE (Muris Varajic @ Jul 25 2009, 02:49...   Jul 25 2009, 05:00 AM
|- - Muris Varajic   I use it....when I use it.   Jul 25 2009, 07:35 AM
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- - Vasilije Vukmirovic   yeah, neoclassical metal uses tons of arpeggios so...   Jul 24 2009, 10:34 PM
- - Sami   I'm sorry to be totally off topic, but i read ...   Jul 24 2009, 11:02 PM
|- - Emir Hot   QUOTE (Sami @ Jul 24 2009, 11:02 PM) I...   Jul 25 2009, 10:44 PM
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- - Oxac   @ Zeyth. You need to be critical of your sources. ...   Jul 25 2009, 08:34 AM
- - Caelumamittendum   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7-zD2IQYTw - A ver...   Jul 26 2009, 12:04 PM
|- - Emir Hot   QUOTE (Caelumamittendum @ Jul 26 2009, 12...   Jul 26 2009, 12:07 PM
|- - Caelumamittendum   QUOTE (Emir Hot @ Jul 26 2009, 01:07 PM) ...   Jul 26 2009, 12:12 PM
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- - Oxac   I think the guy missed that 2 downstrokes in a row...   Jul 26 2009, 01:04 PM
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