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Posted by: ElHombre Jun 25 2012, 12:56 AM

Hi folks
What would you think about getting something like this instead of my Pod x3?: http://www.thomann.de/se/blackstar_id60_tvp_h.htm
I am a bit tired of amp modelling and want a more real think, you can use this live too so it feels like a tool for many purposes at a fair price.

Or would you suggest something different?

Posted by: ringmar Jun 25 2012, 01:24 AM

Seems like a modeler as well, just in amp head format? If you're going to go that route, you could look into Fender Mustang III as well.

If you want to get out of modelling and try something "real" (as you call it.. personally I think modelling is awesome) there's a wealth of stuff out there.

Budget? What tones are you looking for? Do you use a-lot of effects?

Posted by: ElHombre Jun 25 2012, 10:39 AM

Aha its a modeller aswell, I dont have much knowledge about this you see
But Im not really tired of modelling, just want something better. Ive got good guitars, ESP with active pickups, decent Ibanez etc just feels like the quality in my recordings go down to my pod x3. Of course it takes skill aswell but I think it would be better with a more quality hardware.

Thought about getting the POD hd pro, which has a very good price IMO, but how big would the difference be between that and my desktop pod x3?

Axe fx seems like a very good investment but that price I could however get a Axe FX (the first one, used) for like half the price of a new axe fx II but for that kind of money maybe u should get a new one. I dont know really

Posted by: SpaseMoonkey Jun 25 2012, 12:22 PM

Dethklok Brendon Small uses a Pod XT. I believe Trans-Siberian Orchestra, the one guitarist Chris Caffery uses one for live performance. It just takes time to really dial in that tone for recording.

As for newer gear if your looking to go that route. I've gone from the Pod XT, to a Boss GT-10, to a Pod HD500. That is also the order worst to best to my ears. I also ran it via an Egnator 65w Renegade tube head. It helped a lot with sound because it added the warmth from tubes. But to me it still wasn't the real deal. Now I run a good tube amp and I've never looked back.

Another route to try is maybe running a dry signal out from the X3, to a VST and an impulse. It works great for some people and sounds pretty much like the real thing. I use VSTs for night playing but I can't come close to what some of these people can do with it.

http://soundcloud.com/lascailles-shroud/testing-the-sun
This is done via VST, it has great quality as well.

I would like to get my hands an Axe FX or a Kemper as well. I do know you can order a first generation Axe FX off of Fractal Audio's webstore, its under something like B stock, but they are still brand new.

Posted by: ringmar Jun 25 2012, 02:16 PM

The New Old Stock that fractal is selling are Axe Fx Ultra at $1600. Full 1 year warranty. Not B stock, just "last generation".

If your budget goes up to $1000, then hands down you go for an Axe FX standard (used). POD HD Pro are $700 new, you can get an Axe Fx Standard for $1000 in the used market (at least here in Toronto, Canada you can), and the Axe will out perform the POD sound-wise and flexibility-wise.

(All prices in USD.. not sure about prices where you are.)

The HD Pro is better than the X3, but its not leaps and bounds better. There are a lot less models in the HD series than in X3, but they are considered by most to be the most necessary models, and are also considered to be better than the X3.

Posted by: ElHombre Jun 25 2012, 02:45 PM

Ah yes you could get the ultra at a fair price. Problem is it only ships to canada or US

Hmm could get an Ultra for 1500 Euro. And Euro is a stronger currency than dollar :/ damn high prices we have here in europe.
Im lucky the Euro is going to hell though

A few years it would have been 16000 SEK, now its 13000 SEK, but the american one would be like 10 000 SEK

Posted by: PosterBoy Jun 25 2012, 03:25 PM

The Axe Fx is a great unit. I've had the Ultra for 3.5 years and still learning and enjoying it

Posted by: ElHombre Jun 25 2012, 04:11 PM

So I have heard I dont know, the difference cant be that huge between the Ultra and the FX II. FX II might have more features but sound qualitywhise?

Seems like a great investment, good for using live and for recording

Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Jun 25 2012, 05:22 PM

I just found a thread where some guys talk about the Kemper which seems to be another option to the Axe.

Check this video:

Posted by: ElHombre Jun 25 2012, 05:42 PM

Yes I know about that one seems great, but I can get the FX Ultra for the same price

Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Jun 25 2012, 05:44 PM

Axe FX is better?

Posted by: ringmar Jun 25 2012, 06:02 PM

Ultra will still sound Awesome, just like it did when it first came out.

From what I can tell, the main benefits of the 2 are:

1. Will continue getting firmware updates (features, and also new models of amps/cab/effects etc.) for some time. Ultra is at 11.0 and done. But it's still awesome!
2. Built in USB interface, not just midi like the Ultra/Standard.
3. Built in headphone out
4. Interface on the device is a bit easier to use.
5. Tone matching (similar to Kemper Profiling)
6. The ability to capture IRs of cabinets
7. Double the processing horsepower of the Ultra.

Regarding Kemper.. based on the stuff I've seen it sounds pretty damn good too! But..
1) I hate the look of it
2) it cannot be racked (where would I put it when playing live?)
3) I don't know the history of the company behind it, whereas I can read up on how awesome fractal has been with the Axe for the last 5 years or so.
4) I don't think it has the routing flexibility of the axe w.r.t effects/amps/cabs and such, but I'm not sure.

Posted by: ElHombre Jun 25 2012, 06:34 PM

Hmm you cant use headphones with the ultra? And also I need some midi interface.
Well can you connect it with a midi cable to your soundcard, if the card supports that? Or do you have to run i through an external soundcard?

And there is no way you can use headphones? Its good for praticing at night.
Also, the Ultra is supposed to have 2x the processing power of the standard, and the FX II is supposed to have 2x of the Ultra, what does that mean really

Posted by: ringmar Jun 25 2012, 07:06 PM

You can use headphones, I just heard that it has been improved alot on Axe 2 so it's actually usable. Read fractal forms for comments on Ultra headphone port: http://forum.fractalaudio.com/axe-fx-ii-discussion/44158-how-do-i-listen-my-axe-through-headphones.html

You can likely do this:

Axe Ultra Headphone out -> Headphones (but I've heard it won't sound great)
Axe Ultra Midi ports -> Maudio Midisport 2x2 USB interface -> USB on your PC (for MIDI only, mainly for Axe Edit and for firmware updates)
Axe Ultra output -> Your sound card or external audio interface input to your PC (to get sound to your PC)

With axe 2 its;

Axe 2 -> directly to USB on your PC for both Axe Edit (and firmware updates) and Audio
Axe 2 Headphone out -> headphones


Regarding Processing power:

Axe Fx standard: Single Core tigerSharc at 500Mhz
Axe Fx Standard: Single core TigerSHARC at higher than 500 (not sure what exactly) and some more memory
Axe Fx 2: 2 600Mhz Dual core tigerSHARCs, One does amp modelling, the other one does everything else. Double the memory of the ultra.

Posted by: ElHombre Jun 25 2012, 09:24 PM

okey, so what do you say? what should i go for?

Posted by: ringmar Jun 25 2012, 10:02 PM

Completely depends on budget and availability where you are. But if you have the budget:

http://www.g66.eu/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage_fractal&product_id=101&category_id=15&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=91&vmcchk=1&Itemid=91

If not then try to find a used Standard. Sounds the same as an Ultra but a few less features (some of the really fancy stuff, check out the fractal website for details.)

Posted by: ElHombre Jun 25 2012, 11:44 PM

Yes but I got a nice price on a new Axe FX ultra, 1400 euro compared to the 2300 euro for the FX II

Posted by: maharzan Jun 26 2012, 02:06 AM

Axe FX II is like buying new amp every 2 months.

Posted by: ringmar Jun 26 2012, 02:44 AM

Awesome! So you ordered it? When do you get it?

Posted by: Todd Simpson Jun 26 2012, 03:33 AM

The Kemper is just AMAZING. You can download pretty much any rig you can think of, put it in the kemper and it sounds just like the rig in question. The AXE FX is an amazing unit on it's own and the tweakability is endless. I'd really like to have both honestly. Not that you'd need both. But I'd love to let the kemper emulate a large stack and just use the axe fx for fx and pedal control.





I gotta say though, I really hope AXE FX creates a VST/AU plugin as well as the rack system. For mixing/recording/re-amping, it would be awesome and could be far cheaper. Sure it would be great to have an AXE FX, but it would be great if folks could get a taste of it with a plugin too.

Posted by: ElHombre Jun 26 2012, 12:15 PM

Hi man, no I have not, still thinking about it.
I dont know how good the ultra is for recording.

For example eleven rack and FX II had special recording features, could record several tracks and then you could change the sound of the tracks etc.

Well, you can connect the ultra to your soundcard, then use headphones from soundcard, so it was not such a big problem.
But I dont know, the Ultra seem to miss out some really good recording features.

Posted by: ringmar Jun 26 2012, 12:38 PM

Axe fx ultra is great for recording. Periphery used it for their albums. Tons of people use it for recording.

Posted by: ElHombre Jun 26 2012, 12:43 PM

Okey, I think I will go for it.
But as far as I understood, you couldnt record multiple tracks and change the sound like in FX II or Eleven rack.

Also, I connect my POD directly to my computer, and it becomes the soundcard.
If I plug the Ultra into my soundcard, what difference will it be?

Posted by: ringmar Jun 26 2012, 02:08 PM

I think you are getting beyond what I personally can answer in detail. I would suggest posting on the fractal audio forums (very helpful bunch over there) and reading the Axe Fx wiki.

Posted by: tonymiro Jun 26 2012, 03:05 PM

Based on a quick look at Line 6 manual for the Pod X3 and assuming that's the intended sound card...

The standard X3 looks like it only takes unbalanced guitar and balanced mic inputs. There do not appear to be any digital ins so you have to use an analogue signal from the ultra to the pod and use the pod for the ADC. So to plug the Ultra in to the pod you'd almost certainly have to use the mic in and it's a single channel. The issue here is that the Ultra's analogue out is more likely to be at line level rather than mic level so you would have a mismatch: you'd probably have to turn the gain on the pod's mic pre way down to stop it overloading. Even then it might still be poor.

If your X3 is the pro however you could do a digital i/o between the Ultra and the X3Pro via an AES/EBU digital XLR or the spdif. Note that the Ultra is limited to 24/48. You can also run line level analogue to a Pod X3Pro and there's the FX loop.

Posted by: ElHombre Jun 26 2012, 03:51 PM

http://wiki.fractalaudio.com/index.php?title=Reamping
Reamping is doable in FX Ultra.

Now I just need to solve the soundcard issue, what soundcard would be good? Needs a midi input.
I dont think I will use my POD x3, I will most surely sell it