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GMC Forum _ PRACTICE ROOM _ How Do You Hold A Pick?

Posted by: Ayen Aug 31 2007, 02:23 PM

I was wondering how everyone here holds their picks. I hold mine in my own way, but that might not be the best for speed. Could anyone show me a different way to hold it?

Posted by: shredmandan Aug 31 2007, 02:31 PM

I hold a pick like this. smile.gif My thumb leaves about 20-25% of pick visable fo picking and my first finger goes across the back of it.I also play with a open hand letting the rest of my fingers lay out to help with mutting when needed.Hope it helps. tongue.gif

Posted by: Ayen Aug 31 2007, 02:43 PM

Sure does, thanks for the picture. I usually held the pick on top of my curled index finger, with the bottom side of the thumbs knuckle resting on top. I'll try both my way and yours on and off to see if yours fits better. Thanks for the help, Dan!

Posted by: fkalich Aug 31 2007, 02:45 PM

QUOTE (Ayen @ Aug 31 2007, 08:23 AM) *
I was wondering how everyone here holds their picks. I hold mine in my own way, but that might not be the best for speed. Could anyone show me a different way to hold it?


look on some older threads. most here I think hold it with the index finger and thumb nearly horizontal to the strings, the pick tucked in with only the bare tip exposed. actually my index finger points up a bit. it feels uncomfortable at first, but you get used to it, I can't imagine holding any other way now. I used to hold it in similar fashion shown above. Ryan will remember the discussions we had on this.

Posted by: shredmandan Aug 31 2007, 02:46 PM

QUOTE (Ayen @ Aug 31 2007, 09:43 AM) *
Sure does, thanks for the picture. I usually held the pick on top of my curled index finger, with the bottom side of the thumbs knuckle resting on top. I'll try both my way and yours on and off to see if yours fits better. Thanks for the help, Dan!


Cool smile.gif
Glad it helped.You know some actually play with a closed hand aswell,meaning that they do not let there fingers hand out .You can see this in some of pavel's lessons.It is said that its the fastest way to be able to pick,but i have did this way so long very hard to play closed fist and im more accurate this way.Also Kirk Hammet holds his pick this exact way. smile.gif

Posted by: Ayen Aug 31 2007, 02:52 PM

QUOTE (fkalich @ Aug 31 2007, 02:45 PM) *
look on some older threads. most here I think hold it with the index finger and thumb nearly horizontal to the strings, the pick tucked in with only the bare tip exposed. actually my index finger points up a bit. it feels uncomfortable at first, but you get used to it, I can't imagine holding any other way now. I used to hold it in similar fashion shown above. Ryan will remember the discussions we had on this.


Thanks, I'll start looking through the pages now, I've got hours of time ahead of me. Oddly enough, the idea of looking around never even occured to me laugh.gif .


QUOTE
Cool
Glad it helped.You know some actually play with a closed hand aswell,meaning that they do not let there fingers hand out .You can see this in some of pavel's lessons.It is said that its the fastest way to be able to pick,but i have did this way so long very hard to play closed fist and im more accurate this way.Also Kirk Hammet holds his pick this exact way.


Cool, I'll try with the closed fist as well. Thanks!

Posted by: fkalich Aug 31 2007, 03:03 PM

QUOTE (Ayen @ Aug 31 2007, 08:52 AM) *
Thanks, I'll start looking through the pages now, I've got hours of time ahead of me. Oddly enough, the idea of looking around never even occured to me laugh.gif .
Cool, I'll try with the closed fist as well. Thanks!


this may sound narrow minded to you, but I think there is really only one basic way for a shredder to hold a pick. the need really shows up when you start pushing 200bpm 16th AP notes. You can get by holding in other fashions on sweeps, and other things, but it will be easier to get to high speed alternating picking if you hold it the way I am describing.

I was stubborn about doing so myself, but gave in, and it was a very good decision. look at articles about pinch harmonics. those usually describe this method. as I said, it feels uncomfortable at first, and you may not want to hold it that way. but you will get used to it, i assure you. and you will be able to play faster.

Andrew (the theory guy) held it in a different way for 20 years prior to coming to this site, but he change to the described method.

Posted by: Ayen Aug 31 2007, 03:22 PM

It doesn't sound narrow-minded at all, fkalich. Just sounds like experienced advice from another person to me. From the way it sounds though, I hold the pick the way you're describing already. My explanation might not sound like it, but it seems it to me.

Sadly, I don't have a camera to show you, but I could make a quick scribble in Photoshop if you want.


As weird as it sounds, a lot of things I say come off sounding like I meant it in a sarcastic manner, something I assure you is not intended. Not to imply you see it this way, it's simply an observation I made, and a misunderstanding I'd like to avoid.

Edited for misspellings.

Posted by: fkalich Aug 31 2007, 03:58 PM

QUOTE (Ayen @ Aug 31 2007, 09:22 AM) *
It doesn't sound narrow-minded at all, fkalich. Just sounds like experienced advice from another person to me. From the way it sounds though, I hold the pick the way you're describing already. My explanation might not sound like it, but it seems it to me.

Sadly, I don't have a camera to show you, but I could make a quick scribble in Photoshop if you want.
As weird as it sounds, a lot of things I say come off sounding like I meant it in a sarcastic manner, something I assure you is not intended. Not to imply you see it this way, it's simply an observation I made, and a misunderstanding I'd like to avoid.

Edited for misspellings.


i did not take you as being sarcastic.

here is a video some talked about last week. it shows you the basic way I am talking about. now I curl my index finger up even more than this personally. the key is holding it against the side of your index finger.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFSgY8Be6Bw&mode=related&search=

maybe you already do this, as you say.

Posted by: Ayen Aug 31 2007, 04:09 PM

Oh, I think I see what you mean here. I was way off. That video and Dan's picture clearly show what I need to be doing. Thanks guys, now I'm off to bed. laugh.gif

Posted by: Juan M. Valero Aug 31 2007, 04:19 PM

It's not really important how you hold the pick, the most important is that you feel confortable. There are a lot of guitarrists that hold the pick with a horrible position, for instance Marty Frieman, hehehe, and that's not a problem for their picking.

You can see these video of my friend Toni Lloret (http://www.tonilloret.net/).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3M64tpyluNg
(Toni is a great guitar player from Spain, but it isn't his best video XD, but for this question is interesting)

Posted by: fkalich Aug 31 2007, 04:42 PM

QUOTE (Juan M. Valero @ Aug 31 2007, 10:19 AM) *
It's not really important how you hold the pick, the most important is that you feel confortable. There are a lot of guitarrists that hold the pick with a horrible position, for instance Marty Frieman, hehehe, and that's not a problem for their picking.

You can see these video of my friend Toni Lloret (http://www.tonilloret.net/).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3M64tpyluNg
(Toni is a great guitar player from Spain, but it isn't his best video XD, but for this question is interesting)


I don't agree.


Regarding the video, he sounded crappy when he held it in bizarre manners.

Posted by: MickeM Aug 31 2007, 04:55 PM

QUOTE (Juan M. Valero @ Aug 31 2007, 05:19 PM) *
It's not really important how you hold the pick, the most important is that you feel confortable. There are a lot of guitarrists that hold the pick with a horrible position, for instance Marty Frieman, hehehe, and that's not a problem for their picking.

You can see these video of my friend Toni Lloret (http://www.tonilloret.net/).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3M64tpyluNg
(Toni is a great guitar player from Spain, but it isn't his best video XD, but for this question is interesting)

I'm second to disagree. Been there, done that, held it the wrong way for years and years and thought it was right. But I felt staggered and changed my way of picking, very uncomfortable at first but after a while I noticed speed and accuracy increased enormously!
I have posted a picture of my holding the pick somewhere, anyone who's eager will surely find it.

Posted by: Juan M. Valero Aug 31 2007, 06:04 PM

Ok, wait a moment please XD
I want to explain that Toni Lloret always use the first position that he did in the video. The other weird positions are improvised, so probably that was the first time that he plays with. And the conclusion is that it doesn's sound too bad. (of course, his natural position sounds infinitively better).
Why doesn't it sounded too bad? simply what I wanted to say is that the most important isn't how you hold the pick. The most important is the movement of your wrist. Without a good wrist move you cannot find a good sound.

Posted by: Andrew Cockburn Aug 31 2007, 08:49 PM

QUOTE (fkalich @ Aug 31 2007, 10:03 AM) *
Andrew (the theory guy) held it in a different way for 20 years prior to coming to this site, but he change to the described method.


Yes, I agree totally with fkalich - I got a lot more control and eventually a much more relaxed way of picking by changing to this method. Relaxation is incredibly important in high speed playing, so if you are even slightly tense it will impede your progress.

Now I thought I was totally fine with the way I held the pick until others convinced me to try this way. Your mileage may vary, and it may not suit everyone, but if I hadn't tried it I would still be limiting myself, so you owe it to yourself to be aware of different ways out there and to try a few. If you then go back to your old way then fine at least you tried. For me, even after 30 years of playing, changing the way I held the pick wasn't a huge deal, I was used to it in a week or two. Then a little while after that I suddenly got a huge relaxation in my playing that helped me a lot.

Posted by: KRmachine Sep 1 2007, 09:40 AM

I've changed my picking hand twice, and i think for the better both times.

First I started out holding the pick between the "fingerprint" parts of my thumb and index finger, with the hand floating free. This gave me a really uneven attack on the strings and wasn't comfortable at all.

Second I started holding it as described in this thread (against the side of the index finger, index parallel to the strings), but with my pinky and/or ring finger anchored on the bridge/bridge pickup. This was better, but still gave me an uneven picking angle and motion for all strings, and I couldn't really pick fast.

Now I'm holding the pick same way as before, but with my other three fingers tucked in and not touching anything, and my palm placed on the bridge, usually muting one or more strings, using my wrist to pick. I find this is really good as I can pick fast while at the same time muting strings, plus the picking motion is about the same for all 6 strings.

Posted by: Jared Sep 2 2007, 03:57 AM

For someone just starting out, is it a good idea to go ahead and hold it as described and get used to it?

Right now I'm trying it but since I'm still relatively new I'll probably have to have my pinky on the bridge as an anchor (as KRmachine described).

Posted by: MickeM Sep 2 2007, 05:32 AM

QUOTE (Jared @ Sep 2 2007, 04:57 AM) *
For someone just starting out, is it a good idea to go ahead and hold it as described and get used to it?

Right now I'm trying it but since I'm still relatively new I'll probably have to have my pinky on the bridge as an anchor (as KRmachine described).

That's a difficult question. If you can find the correct technique to satart with and develop it from there it's an advantage of course (disregard any typos, I'm using a different keyboard and can't get it right... maybe with some practice it will turn out to be faster than my regular keyboard lol)

Holding it wrong tpo start with and change and nbotice improvement is proof of success. Starting with the right technique and improvement would probably come at such a slow pace it won't be noticable.

I think you should really think about how you should hold your pick, starting now. Then after a few years you can try to improve it but if you get that part right no, the effort in the future wong be so hard, a change won't have that much impact.

Posted by: Pavel Sep 2 2007, 06:04 AM

It's best if you start and get used to one certain style. Than you won't have to relearn later! It's not good to plan on changing picking style or any part of technique. Every change is a pain in the ass and a waste of time so better learn it one way and stick to it for the rest of your life.

Posted by: shredmandan Sep 2 2007, 06:12 AM

QUOTE (Pavel @ Sep 2 2007, 01:04 AM) *
It's best if you start and get used to one certain style. Than you won't have to relearn later! It's not good to plan on changing picking style or any part of technique. Every change is a pain in the ass and a waste of time so better learn it one way and stick to it for the rest of your life.



Yes it is a pain
Its very difficult for me especially to do something a certain way for 10 years then change.almost makes it impossible. smile.gif Because once you get used to doing it this way the longer you go the harder it is to change.Thats why to all these new guitar player's out there i say learn it right the first time.Dont rush and get something down half-ass get it down perfect.Even if it takes you more time you will be thankfull later because there nothing harder than changing bad habbit's.

Posted by: fkalich Sep 2 2007, 06:21 AM

QUOTE (Pavel @ Sep 2 2007, 12:04 AM) *
It's best if you start and get used to one certain style. Than you won't have to relearn later! It's not good to plan on changing picking style or any part of technique. Every change is a pain in the ass and a waste of time so better learn it one way and stick to it for the rest of your life.


remember "Animal Farm". "All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others." In this case it is all "All changes are a pain in the ass, but some changes are more of a pain in the ass than others".

QUOTE (Juan M. Valero @ Aug 31 2007, 12:04 PM) *
Why doesn't it sounded too bad? simply what I wanted to say is that the most important isn't how you hold the pick. The most important is the movement of your wrist. Without a good wrist move you cannot find a good sound.


Sorry to go off on a tangent a bit, but what is your philosophy here, regarding wrist. At higher speeds, at least what I consider higher speeds, say 200bpm 16th notes, I find myself playing with my lower arm, the pivot point being the elbow. My wrist is fairly fixed. I think we will have some opinions on this, regarding playing that way, or with wrist movement.

edit: even so at slower speeds, I find this sort of kicking in at about 140, and certainly by 17.


EDIT &2 Wow! I had a typo, and due to that had a seriously vulgar phrase, fixed it, sorry, absolutely unintentional.

Posted by: SLASH91 Sep 3 2007, 04:41 AM

QUOTE (Juan M. Valero @ Aug 31 2007, 10:19 AM) *
It's not really important how you hold the pick, the most important is that you feel confortable. There are a lot of guitarrists that hold the pick with a horrible position, for instance Marty Frieman, hehehe, and that's not a problem for their picking.


Lol. I think I hold my pick like him. He holds it Angled upwards right.

Posted by: Juan M. Valero Sep 5 2007, 04:46 AM

QUOTE (fkalich @ Sep 2 2007, 07:21 AM) *
Wow! I had a typo, and due to that had a seriously vulgar phrase, fixed it, sorry, absolutely unintentional.



Don't worry wink.gif I like learning new bad-sounding words biggrin.gif biggrin.gif

Posted by: MickeM Sep 5 2007, 05:29 AM

QUOTE (Pavel @ Sep 2 2007, 07:04 AM) *
It's best if you start and get used to one certain style. Than you won't have to relearn later! It's not good to plan on changing picking style or any part of technique. Every change is a pain in the ass and a waste of time so better learn it one way and stick to it for the rest of your life.

Yes, but how do you know the style you choose to get used to is the style that's right for you in the long run?
You have to develop experience with the (right or wrong) technique before you can realize it can be changed/improved.

Posted by: Ayen Sep 5 2007, 10:41 AM

Well I've just checked out Pavel's Ionian Scale Speedpicking lesson, and I already hold the pick the same way he does.

Here is a quick link to the video I'm talking about.

http://guitarmasterclass.net/solo-guitar/ionian-scale-speedpicking/index.htm

In Video 2, at about 1:18, Pavel shows his picking hand.

Posted by: fkalich Sep 5 2007, 11:13 AM

QUOTE (Ayen @ Sep 5 2007, 04:41 AM) *
Well I've just checked out Pavel's Ionian Scale Speedpicking lesson, and I already hold the pick the same way he does.

Here is a quick link to the video I'm talking about.

http://guitarmasterclass.net/solo-guitar/ionian-scale-speedpicking/index.htm

In Video 2, at about 1:18, Pavel shows his picking hand.


same here

Posted by: Ayen Sep 5 2007, 11:16 AM

Glad to have that cleared up, I was dreading the idea of having to get used to a different picking style.

Posted by: buttmonk Sep 6 2007, 02:17 AM

Hi all,

Any thoughts on pick size? I use a normal size dunlop pick and have done since I started out. Back then I also tried 1 of those tiny little picks like Kris uses (and we know what they say about guys with tiny little picks:) [joke, hehe] ), anyways, I found when strumming chords and things I could not keep hold of it (it kept rotating round in my hand) which is why I switched to the bigger pick.

Now that I think about it, I reckon this is cos I am striking too hard and digging the pick in too much, and too much power probably means too much tension in the muscles which is bad for speed etc. Sometime when I am playing and not really thinking about it I notice that my hand frees up a bit with lighter pick strike and the notes come out a bit more fluidly, of course at the expense of some attack. I was thinking of changing to a little pick and forcing myself to be learn to use it, which means I will need to strike softer. Anyone think this is good idea? Are there any shredders out that with heavy pick strikes?

QUOTE
Now I'm holding the pick same way as before, but with my other three fingers tucked in and not touching anything, and my palm placed on the bridge, usually muting one or more strings, using my wrist to pick. I find this is really good as I can pick fast while at the same time muting strings, plus the picking motion is about the same for all 6 strings.


So is this technique widely considered to be good for speed and fluidity? Any downsides to this technique? At least when I try it it feels like it has the potential to be better since there is less tension caused by having several fingers out straight...but it did not really feel right (that would take time)..

Cheers,

Posted by: Ayen Sep 6 2007, 02:27 AM

If the pick is slipping in your hand, try out some Clayton Picks.

I use the .50 MM here: http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Clayton-Acetal-Standard-Picks?sku=110419

Posted by: Evan Sep 7 2007, 12:00 AM

I've been thinking about this subject a lot lately in the past few weeks. Since originally, I moved to the guitar from the piano and woodwind instruments many years ago I've always been struck by how when it comes to how to hold a pick -THE critical core component of picking hand technique-, answers are all over the place when you compare this to how standardized basic elements of technique is on the other instruments. Many 'major' guitar books that I've seen devote no more than one paragraph to holding the pick and often they offer basically no more than "do what's comfortable for you" and other advice that's so lacking in detail that it was useless for me.

Ask a few experienced violinists to show you the correct way to hold the bow, and you'll find little variation in the responses (certainly when compared to the pick question I think). Over hundreds of years, masters of the violin perfected every fine detail of the technique, and now it's standardized- either you follow the method that is so refined that only an even greater genius could hope to improve it -or you're just making things harder for yourself.

The guitar doesn't have quite the same formal history as the violin and piano, and there are techniques that have been widely known for as little as 20 years. We are still in the process of defining the pick grip and when we're done, I predict that there will be multiple pick grip techniques just like there are multiple stick grips for drummers.

When I watch my playing closely, I've noticed that I don't change my grip very often (I grip between side of the index finger and the 'fingerprint' area of thumb, index finger in a neutral position as if holding a pencil rather than curled inward to the palm). I noticed I will curl the index finger inward toward the palm depending on the situation (speedpicking vs. a strum etc.). There are things other than the actual grip that I change a lot though- closed vs. open fist, how much pick is 'showing', angle of the pointed end of the pick in relation to my hand, and then all kinds of things that have more to do with the picking motion rather than grip.

I found this article on the web, and it's the most detailed one I've found yet about his subject:
http://www.tuckandpatti.com/pick-finger_tech.html

I think some of you will find it interesting even though it includes fingerstyle information also.

I'm sorry this post was too long, but I think that this is a fascinating subject and that moving from where we are right now with many books failing to define much of anything at all when it comes to picking technique to the point where there are entire books on the subject and standardized techniques is going to be a key step in the growth of guitar playing as a whole.

Posted by: Bulletproof Oct 19 2007, 06:57 AM

Interesting topic. to be honest...I usually hold my pick with the side of my finger and my thumb but when I go to strum to naturally hold it with with more of my fingerprint on the pick and I point my thumb down. But I"m also weird....when I'm on stage I have about 12 picks in my mic stand. I literally just drop the pick and grab a softer one for certain parts of songs. Drop it once again....grab the hard pick...solo...then drop again if need be. When I'm done...it looks like there are shell casing all around me.....Guitar War!! smile.gif

Posted by: PlayAllDay Oct 19 2007, 07:18 AM

I hold my pick with side of finger and thumb - no matter what size pick. As my goal in being at GMC is to one day shred with the best of them I've been focusing on speed by errr, ummm...not focusing on speed if you know what I mean. tongue.gif

So I've been playing scales like an insane person - scales scales and more scales - and last night had a breakthrough. They are just naturally getting faster as I commit them all to my muscle memory though I have not been using the metronome this past fortnight to push them along, I will start checking speeds again soon.

So anyway, I'm using Jazz III pick last night and suddenly my speed almost doubled! It was like a whole new world. I noticed I was holding the pick VERY lightly but the attack still had some punch.
I was soooo happy - it felt like I was flying! biggrin.gif

Posted by: Melvyn Jan 29 2008, 02:59 PM

My picking is wierd, i use my Middle finger and thumb to hold the pick, letting my index finger tap and pick (when needed), and i also hold the pick very close to the end, to do easy pinch harmonics (Not really a pinch, its just a strum with my thumb pointing out the end, works everytime i need it to :|)

Works for me at least biggrin.gif

Posted by: Andrew Cockburn Jan 29 2008, 10:18 PM

QUOTE (PlayAllDay @ Oct 19 2007, 01:18 AM) *
So anyway, I'm using Jazz III pick last night and suddenly my speed almost doubled! It was like a whole new world. I noticed I was holding the pick VERY lightly but the attack still had some punch.
I was soooo happy - it felt like I was flying! biggrin.gif


That's funny - I picked up a Jazz III pick last night as wll (usually use a much thinner one) and I was liking it too!

Posted by: Dejan Jan 29 2008, 10:32 PM

I never thought on how I hold a pick unsure.gif I just hold it biggrin.gif

It has to stay firmly between fingers, and to feel comfortable that way, nothing else smile.gif

Posted by: Bali Jan 29 2008, 10:45 PM



I've been through the most amazing changes through the years pickwise, and finally I've been playing with this little pick type for at least a decade.

I hold it between thumb and index finger. I loose them all the time so I always carry a bag of some 100 picks!

Posted by: Henkka Jan 29 2008, 10:51 PM

QUOTE (Andrew Cockburn @ Jan 29 2008, 11:18 PM) *
That's funny - I picked up a Jazz III pick last night as wll (usually use a much thinner one) and I was liking it too!


I played with super thick (2-3mm) dunlops, I liked them since you certainly get a good grip of them. But as always everything has to be tested so I bought normal and XL Jazz III picks (and few others too). Haven't touched the super fat picks ever since. Actually I haven't touched any other pick besides Jazz III ever since. smile.gif They just seem to work...

I hold my pick with the side of my middle finger and thumb so majority of the picking movement comes from the wrist. For now this is the way I get most accurate picking and clean sound.

Posted by: Mr T Jan 30 2008, 12:34 AM

Funny that you all should write. I've also recently discovered the Jazz III. Been playing with them for a week now and it's a major improvement compared to the dunlop Gator 1.5mm I was using for a year now. I think I've found my pick.

Posted by: ch00ch00man Jan 30 2008, 09:02 AM

QUOTE (Ayen @ Sep 5 2007, 09:27 PM) *
If the pick is slipping in your hand, try out some Clayton Picks.

I use the .50 MM here: http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Clayton-Acetal-Standard-Picks?sku=110419


.50 mm really!? wow! thats must feel like a limp chicken. i use 3 mm big stubbies, and think they are too thin. to each his own i guess.

after countless experiments with different pick sizes and shapes, and ways of holding them, this is what i found out. if you are going for speed, and articulation, the thicker, and stiffer, the better. pointy picks are better then rounded ones. better for cutting through the string, fewer snags. how you hold it is of great importance. there really is a right way, and all the rest are simply wrong. again, i underscore, strictly for speed, holding the pick between thumb and first knuckle of the index finger, angled slightly to the plane of the strings, is the right way. also, the rest of the fingers should be curled gently under (ala pavel). the reason for that is simple physics. the smaller the fulcrum (ie the distance between the wrist, the pivot point, and the tip of your hand), the less torque you need to apply to achieve the same angular velocity. the faster you can play. also pivoting with the wrist is a lot better, faster, and more controllable, and accurate then pivoting from the elbow.

and the most important thing i learned is, the more relaxed the hand is, the faster you can play. that comes only through countless hours of playing slow to build up muscle memory.

boris

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