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Posted by: wylde guitar Jan 25 2008, 01:53 AM

Hey whats up GMC!

I'm trying to learn some new scales to help my improv and learning some exotic scales like the hirojoshi, kumoi, and persian scale to spice up my playing. I've been copying the scales into a book and already have 11 or 12.

What I'm trying to do though is draw out all the boxes for each of the scales but I can't figure out how many notes should be on each string per box, where i should start, etc. etc.

If you know how to construct all the boxes for a scale please help me!
(I highly recommend making a book of scales, it's very handy and really helps you memorize the scale)

Posted by: Muris Jan 25 2008, 01:54 AM

Try 3 notes per string,that's most common way,not the only one tho.

Posted by: wylde guitar Jan 25 2008, 01:58 AM

basically stick to 3 notes for things like a major scale and 2 for scales with only 5 or 6 notes?
to be honest, i thought i would have to learn a big formula lol but thanks this will help

Posted by: Muris Jan 25 2008, 02:02 AM

Yeah,just like that.
Main things is to have "logical" movement while playing and
since most of us humans have 4 fingers to play with ,3 notes per string is quite reasonable.
Or 2nps as you said if scale has 5-6 notes.

Posted by: wylde guitar Jan 25 2008, 02:11 AM

thx just adding this, did anyone know that the egyptian scale in D is an A minor Pentatonic REPLICA just with different root notes? Exact same notes in the exact same place...weird...

Posted by: Muris Jan 25 2008, 02:22 AM

No idea really...
You can "make" scale from every scale nonetheless.
Per example this D Egyptian.
Same as D minor scale,D Dorian or D Mixolidian without 3rd and 6th degree.
Not sure if we can call it a scale but I'm not here to judge.

Posted by: FretDancer69 Jan 25 2008, 02:36 AM

i think you should construct scale boxes with 3 nps for major and minor and 2 for pentatonics. Although pentatonics contain 3 nps as well

Posted by: Andrew Cockburn Jan 25 2008, 02:14 PM

Also, remember that boxes (patterns) are just a way of mapping the real scale onto a guitar for playing (on piano for instance you don't need to do this as you can only play each note in one place - on guitar we have many more options).

There are a couple of different strategies to build patterns:

1. Start on the E string on any note of the scale. Mark that fret in your mind as the home position. Move up that string playing notes from the scale until the next note would be more than 4 frets from home position (counting the home position as fret 1), and place that next not on a higher string. Keep going until you run out of strings.

This approach gives you regular scale boxes - boxes are good because they keep your hand in the same position throughout the scale.

2. Start on the E string on any note of the scale. For each string, add notes until you have played exactly 3 notes on that string then swap strings.

This approach gives you 3 note per string scales - these are good because they have an even number of notes on each string which really helps with speed runs. These patterns are tailor made for triplets.

Change the number from 3 to 2 or 4 and you get 2 note per string scales, or even 4 note per string scales (possible, but very hard to play, a favourite of Alan Holdsworth I believe). 2 notes per string are especially suitable for pentatonic. (In fact for pentatonic it turns out that 2 notes per string and boxes are the same).

3. Whole neck approach - treat each string in isolation, and play entire scales by moving up 1 string. Understand that there will be huge overlap between strings, and figure out all the possible ways of playing an individual note or run on all strings (very hard to do in practice but this is how really top nothch performers see things)

That's all there is to patterns really - and as a point of terminology, I would call boxes a special case of patterns that are constructed using rule 1, patterns is a more general term that realtes to all possible ways to map a scale to the guitar neck.

Posted by: Milenkovic Ivan Jan 25 2008, 02:59 PM

THere are a lot of different names for the same scales. Do not worry too much about this, just focus on learning the scales on the fretboard. PLay the positions night and day, and learn to connect the positions for starters. Work scale by scale, so you don't get mixed up

Posted by: Hisham Jan 25 2008, 11:00 PM

man there is nothing its name egyptian scale we have many scales in our Arab music world for example :
nahawand scale = natural minor
kurd = phrigian
ajam = Major
hejazz = ajosha
khumasi = pentatonic
these scales is the normall as western ,but you have to know there is aquarter tone in our scales
for example: bayatt = minor with 2 quarter notes
rast = Major with 2 quarter notes
and how to do that on guitar you : if you have a quarter notes in E so you have to bend D# 1/4 bend and thats need
hard practicing for that to get the feelings for that 1/4 notes.
have a nice day:)

Posted by: Muris Jan 26 2008, 01:41 AM

Hisham,if I got it right,another word for quarter tone is Maqam or something?
Or is that just name for place in the scale,not relation between 2 notes?

Posted by: Hisham Jan 27 2008, 01:59 AM

quarter tone is for example split the one fret to 2 frets so the first will give you 1/4 tone the second will give you 1/2 tone so these tones are using in the maqams and the maqams its mean scale in arabic music so for exampl let see the major scale C D E F G A B C thats MAjor or AJAM in our languag
but if we use the 1/4 tone it will be C D (E1/4) F G A (B1/4) C then we call that rast C so if you look to the keyboards what we have it here it has a specail scale for 1/4 tones and that is easy because its an elecktronic items but for guitar you should split the frets or to bend the D# to get E1/4 tone.see you muris

Posted by: Muris Jan 27 2008, 07:37 PM

Ahh,I see,Maqam is name for arabic scale that contains some 1/4 intervals,thanks Hisham.

Posted by: Hisham Jan 27 2008, 10:54 PM

you welcome muris

Posted by: Milenkovic Ivan Jan 28 2008, 01:31 AM

I've seen some musician having his strat modified in such a way that he has some added frets between 3rd and 4th fret I think. This way he can play quarter notes. I saw once a band playing that music and that guy with a strat and I was amazed with his style Great music I love it!