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GMC Forum _ PRACTICE ROOM _ My First Full Song Including Vocals
Posted by: Gitarrero Jul 22 2012, 04:47 PM
Hi guys!
So, two weeks ago I suddenly had this song idea including the chorus vocals in my head. It is a song about bits of the story of Diablo 3 (spoilers if you haven't finished it 
), and I also took the intro from a D3 cutscene (hopefully Blizzard won't sue me now).
The song is in drop C, and I'm really happy with the instrumental part of the song.
Now, for the vocals I used the X-Orcism plugin (thanks Todd!). My setup was as follows:
I plugged my microphone into my Behringer V-amp 3 cause I don't have a chance to plug it directly into my PC. The V-amp3 is connected via my usual USB device to the PC, which I also use to record guitars.
The mic signal that arrives in Reaper is really low, I have to crank the volume up completely. I also have to use a pre-amp and much gain in the V-amp. So there is already gain in the signal. On top of that comes the X-Orcism plugin. I also "sang" or spoke pretty loud into the mic, which leads to some clipping.
So, what would you guys suggest? How can I record vocals properly at home?
Here's the song now:
http://soundcloud.com/gitarrero/the-prime-evil
Posted by: Yash Jul 22 2012, 05:52 PM
AWESOME 
but no solo ??? why ???
Posted by: TreyDeschamp Jul 22 2012, 06:05 PM
Nice!
I honestly couldn't hear the vocals that well but I kind of liked it like that (that sounded bad I know 
)
What I mean is it kind of made the song more....atmospheric for me. Like there was something unknown going on and then you had this heavy track to focus on all at the same time.
You definitely got some Diablo in there! Great job man!
Posted by: Gitarrero Jul 22 2012, 06:12 PM
Haha, thanks guys
Trey, I know what you mean! I thought the same...like mixing the vocals more into the background. Maybe this would work for this song. But that's exactly the problem I wanna solve for future recording: make the vocals louder and stand out better.
Yash: a Solo didn't really fit into the atmosphere...and not every song needs a solo.
Posted by: TreyDeschamp Jul 22 2012, 06:22 PM
Trey, I know what you mean! I thought the same...like mixing the vocals more into the background. Maybe this would work for this song. But that's exactly the problem I wanna solve for future recording: make the vocals louder and stand out better.
Looking forward to hearing more of a vocal performance in the future!
Posted by: Ben Higgins Jul 22 2012, 06:51 PM
Really cool, Hef ! I love the main one note riff, really effective with those clean octave chords in the background 
Vox are like drums - notoriously difficult to capture due to the dynamic range. Essential things you need would be a pop shield to stop the loud 'plosives' and heavy compression of the recorded signal once it's in Reaper.
Posted by: Gitarrero Jul 22 2012, 07:11 PM
Thanks Ben
The melody is taken from Diablo as well (I guess it appears in all three games), it just had to be in there.
I was wondering how to get rid of the "plosives"...and I didn't wanna compress since the vocals were so low anyway. But I will try that!
Posted by: Ben Higgins Jul 22 2012, 07:15 PM
The melody is taken from Diablo as well (I guess it appears in all three games), it just had to be in there.
I was wondering how to get rid of the "plosives"...and I didn't wanna compress since the vocals were so low anyway. But I will try that!
Also, HI-Pass filter is the thing to do on most instruments anyway, to get rid of unneeded low end frequencies
Posted by: The Uncreator Jul 22 2012, 07:46 PM
Vocals need to be EQ'ed. General idea for male vocals is that anything below 150 is garbage. Put a high-pass with a brickwall filter if you can and just chop off everything below 150, if a brickwall filter isn't available to you tighten down the slope. This then will make it sit apart from the guitars, which probably arent high-passed that high, kick drum, and bass in the low frequency range. (and this is referring to more extreme types of vocals, which seems to be what you are aiming for)
Also, mix vocals as they sit in the mix, don't listen to them alone too much because whats important is how it sits in your mix and now they sound isolated. From the sound of it, I would also drop 2-3db somewhere in the 200-600hz range, seems to be a lot of clutter somewhere in there. Maybe a small boost to make it come out more in the mix around 1-2.5khz. I know these ranges are kind of big but my ear isn't nowhere near as attuned to this stuff as some more experienced mixers, so its just my best.
The mic signal that arrives in Reaper is really low, I have to crank the volume up completely. I also have to use a pre-amp and much gain in the V-amp. So there is already gain in the signal.
Before you add all that gain from the V-amp, keep everything dry and boost the volume in reaper. If you are going above 12db to get a listenable volume, then you might just not be loud enough. Certain mics are meant for certain things. Speaking into an SM58 will almost always yield a low signal, when I do vocals however, the signal is nice and even. With room to boost it should I choose too. So it just might be the dynamic range of the mic. Barring that though, you could add a compressor on your vocals, which should aid with the volume as well.
When your vocals are cleared up, adding reverb and delay in small incremental amounts can let them fill out more in the mix.
EDIT
Also, when you say the signal that arrives in reaper is low, how low is it? Can you even make out the appearance of the signal? Is it almost a straight line, or is there some "bulge" to it?
Posted by: Gitarrero Jul 22 2012, 07:59 PM
Thanks you very much for your input Brett, I'll try this!
Well, the signal arrives when I use gain on the v-amp, otherwise it is so low that you can barely hear it. So I have to crank the Reaper track volume to max. I also lowered the volume of all other tracks, but didn't wanna go to low without trying other stuff. I'll try the compressor thing.
For recording, I used a regular vocal mic. It's a Shure that I've used on stage for years with good results...so it should be cool for recording.
Maybe the problem is that I have to go through the V-Amp cause I don't have any other opportunity to connect it to the PC.
Posted by: Mudbone Jul 22 2012, 08:21 PM
Das Gut! I like the riffs I think the drums do need to be bit louder and more powerful. I do listen to a lot of Metallica, so my opinion could be skewed You know how Lars can be with those drums 
Posted by: Gitarrero Jul 22 2012, 08:27 PM
Haha, I actually thought about raising the volume of the drums...but the most important question never occured to me:
"What would Lars do??"
Glad you like it, I'll mess with the mix a bit more...
Posted by: snackajacks Jul 22 2012, 08:30 PM
Nice one Christy
Posted by: Todd Simpson Jul 22 2012, 08:52 PM
Well Spiff! Did you do this in reaper? If so, it'd be awesome if you could upload the project and let use crazy wack jobs take a pass at "interpreting" it so to speak mixup/mashup, sorta thing? I'd be down for sure
The song has a great heavy almost industrial vibe and reminds me a bit of RAMSTEIN! But more Christian ish so KRISTIANSTEIN!
RECORDING VOCALS:
Good question. Step one is probably to get an interface that has XLR ins on it that is sorta set up for recording mic inputs. I actually have one that I'm happy to send you! It's called the BLUE ICICLE and it takes an XLR jack from a mic, and turns it to USB and has good circuitry for recording good mic level. It's a very handy piece and quite portable. The are only about $40 US though so it may be cheaper to buy than ship!
So, two weeks ago I suddenly had this song idea including the chorus vocals in my head. It is a song about bits of the story of Diablo 3 (spoilers if you haven't finished it
), and I also took the intro from a D3 cutscene (hopefully Blizzard won't sue me now).The song is in drop C, and I'm really happy with the instrumental part of the song.
Now, for the vocals I used the X-Orcism plugin (thanks Todd!). My setup was as follows:
I plugged my microphone into my Behringer V-amp 3 cause I don't have a chance to plug it directly into my PC. The V-amp3 is connected via my usual USB device to the PC, which I also use to record guitars.
The mic signal that arrives in Reaper is really low, I have to crank the volume up completely. I also have to use a pre-amp and much gain in the V-amp. So there is already gain in the signal. On top of that comes the X-Orcism plugin. I also "sang" or spoke pretty loud into the mic, which leads to some clipping.
So, what would you guys suggest? How can I record vocals properly at home?
Here's the song now:
http://soundcloud.com/gitarrero/the-prime-evil
Posted by: Gitarrero Jul 22 2012, 09:09 PM
Thanks Marc and Todd!
Since I plan on recording more vocals in the future, also (and especially) clean ones that blue icicle thingy might be the solution.
Remember that one quadrium project, Todd? I recorded vocals and the signal was also really low, almost impossible to work with. The Icicle is 49 € on Amazon, so I think I'm gonna buy it. I've got so many finished songs and written lyrics that it's about time, I suppose.
And yes, it's a reaper project so I'm happy to send it to you via rapidshare
Will send you the link tomorrow.
Posted by: bleez Jul 22 2012, 09:52 PM
well I cant offer any recording tips but I thought the guitar riffs were really good
Posted by: Todd Simpson Jul 23 2012, 05:24 AM
Since I plan on recording more vocals in the future, also (and especially) clean ones that blue icicle thingy might be the solution.
Remember that one quadrium project, Todd? I recorded vocals and the signal was also really low, almost impossible to work with. The Icicle is 49 € on Amazon, so I think I'm gonna buy it. I've got so many finished songs and written lyrics that it's about time, I suppose.
And yes, it's a reaper project so I'm happy to send it to you via rapidshare
Will send you the link tomorrow.
Well cool!
Would you be ok with posting the link in this thread as well? Folks may want to download it and work with it as well? Could result in some really cool results. Anything you like you can always incorporate if you want. The icicle is quite handy. It's got it's own little preamp circuit and gives good results. Well worth the cost for vocal recording and you can put a mic on your guitar amp and use the icicle as a preamp/interface for recording guitars!
BONUS!Posted by: WeePee Jul 23 2012, 07:20 AM
Hey nice track Christian !
If you want I could try to make you a drum track. What do you think ?
Posted by: Gitarrero Jul 23 2012, 07:23 AM
Sounds cool! I'm up for anything that improves this project
Here is the download link to the Reaper project, if you can work with that:
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/93388299/the%20prime%20evil.rar
Posted by: tonymiro Jul 23 2012, 10:34 AM
drop 2-3db somewhere in the 200-600hz range, seems to be a lot of clutter somewhere in there. Maybe a small boost to make it come out more in the mix around 1-2.5khz. ...
Yes, maybe a little tighter 220-500Hz and attenuate on a wide bell. It also may need an extra cut at @500 on a narrow, tight bell but more like -6dB. You maybe then can avoid the boost but a bit hard to tell from the stream...
A bit OT - Uncreator for some vox using a shelf rather than a pass filter can help as you don't have to cut as steeply to achieve the same result
. I think the SM58 has a slight presence lift in the 1.5-5kHz range by the way to compliment most vocals and guitar. Well, the signal arrives when I use gain on the v-amp, otherwise it is so low that you can barely hear it. So I have to crank the Reaper track volume to max. I also lowered the volume of all other tracks, but didn't wanna go to low without trying other stuff. I'll try the compressor thing.
For recording, I used a regular vocal mic. It's a Shure that I've used on stage for years with good results...so it should be cool for recording.
Maybe the problem is that I have to go through the V-Amp cause I don't have any other opportunity to connect it to the PC.
Might be wrong as I don't know much about the VAmp but this sounds like there's an impedence mismatch. I don't think the VAmp was designed to take a signal from a mic, only ones from guitar. If that's the case you'll struggle to get a good signal level - cranking it is just likely to boost all the noise as well.
Posted by: Gitarrero Jul 23 2012, 10:46 AM
The V-Amp is indeed only designed for guitars, but at this point is my only option to connect the mic to the PC.
As Todd suggested, I will order the ICICLE to connect the mic via USB to my PC, I hope this will work much better...
Thanks again for all your input guys
Posted by: Ben Higgins Jul 23 2012, 11:18 AM
Good point.. aren't guitar signals Hi impedance whereas mics are low ?
I have to make sure my audio interface is switched to HI impedance for recording guitar and low whenever I'm running a mic into it.
Posted by: The Uncreator Jul 23 2012, 01:26 PM
A bit OT - Uncreator for some vox using a shelf rather than a pass filter can help as you don't have to cut as steeply to achieve the same result
. I think the SM58 has a slight presence lift in the 1.5-5kHz range by the way to compliment most vocals and guitar.When I use shelf's It seems I have to cut more steeply into higher frequencies. Although I did just pick up Q-10 by waves which is an amazing EQ, The slope control is phenomenal, extremely adjustable, will have to try this out if I record vox soon.
Posted by: Dieterle Jul 23 2012, 02:06 PM
Sehr interessant
and i like to listen to this dark and even relaxing rhythm ! Cool riffs and the voicetype fits great should be not louder but a bit clearer to understand the words better, from my opinion
Hope there comes more !
Dieter
Posted by: Gitarrero Jul 23 2012, 02:11 PM
Hallo Dieter,
vielen Dank
Yeah, I wanted to create a dark atmosphere, so I chose a slow rhythm
I also think that I will mix the vocals a bit into the background, but really want to make them a bit clearer so you can still understand them.
And no worries, more will follow!
Schöne Grüße Richtung Norden
Christian
Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Jul 23 2012, 02:32 PM
Hey Christian! Check yer thread out
Posted by: tonymiro Jul 24 2012, 10:56 AM
I have to make sure my audio interface is switched to HI impedance for recording guitar and low whenever I'm running a mic into it.
Yes Ben electric guitars are HiZ whereas a mic is low impedence, plug one in to the other and it's unlikely that you'll get a useable signal.
A shelf should pretty much give you a flat, uniform cut/gain across the entire frequency range that you choose, whereas a pass filter is rolling off progressivly on a slope. So if you want to cut -6dB from 50 Hz: with a shelf you set the corner at 50 so 50 would be -6dB as would 40, 30, 20, etc. To get something similar with a pass filter for -6 at 50 on say a-6dB per octave slope you may need a corner at 100; at 100 you'd be at 0, 75 @ -2, 50 at- 6, 40 about -10, 20 -20: actual figures depend on the design of the filter. Some pass filters also colour at the corner - i.e. they add some boost, so the corner at 100 could actual mean +2db at 110.
Posted by: Todd Simpson Jul 25 2012, 01:59 AM
Todd here Christian put up the REAPER files and I downloaded them and did a quick REMIX! Here is the Remix Version. I used REAPER plugins and plugins already in the project. Have a look and listen
CHRISTIAN: Open up the FX panel and you can see any of the additions/changes. I didn't make very many really, just a few tweaks. Anybody else up for a remix?
http://soundcloud.com/techniqueswithtodd/gmc-remix-gitarrero-the-prime
the_prime_evil_remix.zip ( 18.51MB )
: 67
Posted by: The Uncreator Jul 25 2012, 02:20 AM
A shelf should pretty much give you a flat, uniform cut/gain across the entire frequency range that you choose, whereas a pass filter is rolling off progressivly on a slope. So if you want to cut -6dB from 50 Hz: with a shelf you set the corner at 50 so 50 would be -6dB as would 40, 30, 20, etc. To get something similar with a pass filter for -6 at 50 on say a-6dB per octave slope you may need a corner at 100; at 100 you'd be at 0, 75 @ -2, 50 at- 6, 40 about -10, 20 -20: actual figures depend on the design of the filter. Some pass filters also colour at the corner - i.e. they add some boost, so the corner at 100 could actual mean +2db at 110.
Oh wow, I just realized I was talking about band pass' (bells, etc.) and not shelfs. I see exactly what you're saying now, haven't tried that though, thats a good idea. I really feel dumb this hasnt occured to me
Posted by: WeePee Jul 31 2012, 09:16 AM
Here comes my remix.
No vocals though. I added new drums for you too. You can use them If you want to re-record your vocals on this one.
Here's the file:
https://soundcloud.com/alfafirefox/gmc-remix-gitarrero-the-prime
Also Christian I don't know about that tapedeck thing if it's necessary...'cos when listening that clean guitar audio the whole track can be heard in the background. You should check that out !!
Also you're using it in the heavy guitars too. It makes those audio muddy.
Posted by: Gitarrero Jul 31 2012, 05:33 PM
Sweet, sounds awesome Weepee!
Yeah, that tapedeck thing is annoying, but I haven't figured out how to stop it yet...so how can I stop it in Reaper?
Posted by: WeePee Jul 31 2012, 06:14 PM
Yeah, that tapedeck thing is annoying, but I haven't figured out how to stop it yet...so how can I stop it in Reaper?
I think it's quite simple as clicking in the right corner close it but somebody tell me what the heck is it for ? The tapedeck I mean...
Posted by: Gitarrero Jul 31 2012, 06:17 PM
I never even noticed there was one, tbh, otherwise I would have closed it already
But I found it now.
Posted by: Todd Simpson Aug 1 2012, 12:05 AM
Nice! Really well done on the drums WEEPEE! Don't suppose you can program up some Math Metal/Groove beats? I'd love to work on a track with you guys
No vocals though. I added new drums for you too. You can use them If you want to re-record your vocals on this one.
Here's the file:
https://soundcloud.com/alfafirefox/gmc-remix-gitarrero-the-prime
Also Christian I don't know about that tapedeck thing if it's necessary...'cos when listening that clean guitar audio the whole track can be heard in the background. You should check that out !!
Also you're using it in the heavy guitars too. It makes those audio muddy.
Posted by: Slavenko Erazer Aug 1 2012, 10:21 AM
Sounds great, Pure Teutonic Industrial / Death rock!!
But because of muddy vocals production can't find out are u singing in German or english?
Anyway you reminded me on Good ol' Diablo days , so i need to reinstall diablu 2 these days and play it while it's hot...
Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Aug 1 2012, 10:59 AM
I got an idea Now that Weepee did such a great job with the drumming, it is only natural for Christian to re-record the guitars over Weepee's drums, so that the track becomes uber tight!
What say you gentlemen?
Cosmin
Posted by: Todd Simpson Aug 15 2012, 04:33 PM
I was thinking make it in to a collab
Now that Weepee did such a great job with the drumming, it is only natural for Christian to re-record the guitars over Weepee's drums, so that the track becomes uber tight! What say you gentlemen?
Cosmin
Posted by: Gitarrero Aug 15 2012, 07:32 PM
Sorry guys, been so busy with other stuff lately...I will re-record it next week!
Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Aug 16 2012, 11:00 AM
Well, Todd's idea seems like a good one - what do you say Christian?
Me and Ben and Jessi, we were wondering where you are man
Posted by: WeePee Aug 16 2012, 01:47 PM
Crazy Train Collab !!!
Posted by: Gitarrero Aug 17 2012, 07:17 AM
Me and Ben and Jessi, we were wondering where you are man
I'm honored! Of course we can turn this into a collab
Well, it's no surprise that Jessi missed me
, but you and Ben as well? My heart is feeling really warm now!! I was in a bad mood and met a few friends to talk to. I mean, offline friends
since you all are my friends too!But I'm better now, preparing for the Area4 festival that is beginning today. I'll come back with loads of videos for you guys
In the meantime, you can prepare the collab!
Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Aug 18 2012, 06:52 PM
Oh, if we can help with anything, just let us know mate In the mean time, I will finish the ongoing collab and we can talk about the new one after that Will you try a go at the Modern Pop Collab - the deadline is on Monday
Posted by: Gitarrero Aug 19 2012, 10:21 AM
On monday???? Oh dear...
I'm still in my hometown Münster, today is the last day of the Area 4 Festival. But I'll be back in Rottweil tomorrow in the evening, so I will have time to cook something up. I have to be in the pop collab, and you know it
Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Aug 19 2012, 03:04 PM
I'm still in my hometown Münster, today is the last day of the Area 4 Festival. But I'll be back in Rottweil tomorrow in the evening, so I will have time to cook something up. I have to be in the pop collab, and you know it
Hell yeah! You gave me the idea! You'd better give us a GREAT take
Posted by: Ben Higgins Aug 19 2012, 06:25 PM
I'm sure you do !
And also don't forget that my Master of Donuts collab can't actually officially begin until you have a take on there.... a 'crazy' take...
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