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GMC Forum _ GEAR & PRODUCTION _ Seymour Duncan Blackout Pickup
Posted by: SLASH91 Mar 6 2008, 12:53 AM
As some of you know, I'm looking for a new guitar, and I feel settled on http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/ESP-LTD-Alexi-Laiho?sku=516782. There are two versions of the guitar however. The bodies are the exact same, but one has the EMG-HZ H-4 humbucker and the newer version has the Seymore Duncan Blackout. I can get the one with the EMG for a couple hundred less, but is it really worth it? Is the Blackout allready awesome? Thanks for the help.
Posted by: Tjchep Mar 6 2008, 01:05 AM
Well, here's my two cents on these pups.
I tried them out after trying out a similar guitar (Forget which models, both schecter) One EMG then the other Seymour duncan Blackout pickups.
Emg, everyone knows what they sound like, very compressed, not very natrual and only really good for metal and heavy lead stuff.
Blackouts - Very warm and articulate, it has all the things that you love in an active and alot more things are more natrual about it than the EMG, way less compressed, and seemed to even do blues decently.
But really, I'd go try them out, especially if your going to buy an expencive guitar without knowing which pickups you'll like better.
tj
Posted by: skennington Mar 6 2008, 06:08 AM
Don't know if your comparing apples to apples here. The H'4's are passive. If SD's are active, try playing them against a guitar with a set of EMG 81 and 85's.
Posted by: Bogdan Mar 6 2008, 01:57 PM
Since you are buying expensive guitar I would strongly suggest that you try both guitars in a shop (if you have one near you)..
Posted by: Goliath Mar 6 2008, 02:03 PM
You're probably not going to be happy with the EMG passive, BUT the good thing is that you can pick up an 81 and plug it in and be squared away since EMG has plug n play harnesses for their pickups.
I'm a bigger fan of the SD actives. I don't have a blackout, but my Livewires can get squealy when I need them to but they also clean up a LOT nicer than EMG actives. Honestly, BUYING the $700 Alexi 600 and INSTALLING a ~$100 SD Blackout in it is a way to get an almost $300 savings on virtually the same instrument.
I would buy this one http://www.samash.com/catalog/showitem.asp?SKU=EALX600WH&cm_sp=HOMEPAGE-_-022008-_-HOMEPAGE+Side2
Since I'm pretty certain both play the same. Then install a BRIDGE one of these:
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Seymour-Duncan-Blackout-Active-Humbucker?sku=301006
even if you drop $40 to get it installed, you're paying $840 for a guitar they're asking for $1175 new.
You could go even cheaper and get one on ebay, they typically go for $550-$650 and most times include a case.
Posted by: Spreedmaster Mar 6 2008, 02:09 PM
I'm a bigger fan of the SD actives. I don't have a blackout, but my Livewires can get squealy when I need them to but they also clean up a LOT nicer than EMG actives. Honestly, BUYING the $700 Alexi 600 and INSTALLING a ~$100 SD Blackout in it is a way to get an almost $300 savings on virtually the same instrument.
Wouldnt the passive pickups electrics have no connection for a battery, you would have to add that in?
Posted by: Guitarman700 Mar 6 2008, 02:20 PM
blackouts are very nice, the alexi 600, ehh, not so much. i have some recommendations for you;
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/ESP-LTD-MH1000-Electric-Guitar-with-EMGs?sku=512954
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/ESP-LTD-MH1000-Electric-Guitar-with-EMGs?sku=512954
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Jackson-RR24-Randy-Rhoads-Snow-White-Electric-Guitar-with-EMGs?sku=512578
i HIGHLY recommend the Hannemen sig or the Rhoads, both are AMAZING guitars and wont dissapoint.
let me explain. the alexi 600 i tried felt, well, cheap, and the lack of a second humbucker was very disappointing,
not to mention the one it had sounded like crap. the hannemen sig has dual emg's, as well as a kahler trem,
i simply love that guitar, and plan on buying one when i land a steady job. look at some other guitars is my advice, ive tried several of the alexi series, and hated every one.
good luck!
Edit: another recommendation; http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/ESP-LTD-Ninja-600-Electric-Guitar?sku=516785
Posted by: Goliath Mar 6 2008, 02:37 PM
heh forsake the Alexi sig for the Rhoads sig? The Alexi sig is basically an RR24 with a fatter body and bigger lower wing. The bevels are pretty much the similar, they're bigger on the A600. Both have alder NTB construction, but he could walk away with an A600 for $850 w/ an SD or drop. The bigger body of the A600 should help with sustain. Shark tooth vs. reverse shark tooth , preference there. Both have OFRs. Doesn't look like either gets a case w/ it.
I know the A600 is korean, but LTD gets all guitars from korea and inspects/sets them up just like Schecter does (come w/ stickers on the back of the guitar saying "Inspected in the USA", it's still on my DV8R 
).
I fail to see how the RR24 is a better value considering they're near identical.
Posted by: Toni Suominen Mar 6 2008, 02:41 PM
I would go with the Blackout's. More tone and more natural sounding 
Posted by: SLASH91 Mar 6 2008, 03:35 PM
Wow, thanks for all of the replies guys.
Sadly, there's now way that I can play this guitar. No ESP dealer around here, but I will check just to make sure.
I'm liking your idea goliath, is that sight, Samash or whatever, good to order stuff from. I'm not ordering ANYTHING for Muscisians friend.
The Rhoads is nice for sure, but so expensive...Alexi-600 looks cooler anyways.
Thanks for the help 
I will look at other guitars though, Guitarman
Posted by: RIP Dime Mar 6 2008, 05:06 PM
Personally I would buy the one with the EMG and put a pickup of my choice in it, even then I think it would be cheaper than the one with the Blackout.
But ask yourself, what would Chuck Norris do?
Posted by: SLASH91 Mar 6 2008, 05:55 PM
But ask yourself, what would Chuck Norris do?
He'd throw a roundhouse kick, and they'd give him the guitar for free
Posted by: Guitarman700 Mar 6 2008, 05:59 PM
Slash, how much is your budget? because the alexi is listed as $1179, and the http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/ESP-LTD-JH600-Electric-Guitar?sku=512027 is listed less, and that guitar carries my highest recommendation. its your choice, but i like versatility in my guitars, so just a thought.
Posted by: SLASH91 Mar 6 2008, 06:09 PM
I'd say that I don't really want to pay more that $1200.
That Hannemen is very nice looking, the inlays are awesome. I'll just have to do some more research it seems.
I'm really considering the Alexi now because:
1. I can get it for a pretty cheap price (if I do what Giolath said)
2. It's basically a Rhoads, except it looks cooler imo.
3. OFR, which the Hannemen has also
Thanks, it'll still be several months till I buy one, but I am trying to research it alot more than I have in the past. Any more advice is welcome
Posted by: Guitarman700 Mar 6 2008, 06:32 PM
That Hannemen is very nice looking, the inlays are awesome. I'll just have to do some more research it seems.
I'm really considering the Alexi now because:
1. I can get it for a pretty cheap price (if I do what Giolath said)
2. It's basically a Rhoads, except it looks cooler imo.
3. OFR, which the Hannemen has also
Thanks, it'll still be several months till I buy one, but I am trying to research it alot more than I have in the past. Any more advice is welcome
actually, the hanneman sig has a kahler trem. the site info is wrong, i dont know why.
Posted by: SLASH91 Mar 6 2008, 10:00 PM
Oh...not cool. That's out.
Posted by: Guitarman700 Mar 7 2008, 01:34 AM
your perfect guitar has arrived!
http://nealmoser.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=33_34&products_id=184&zenid=45783c20a4cba5790044b9631c08266c
Posted by: Smikey2006 Mar 7 2008, 02:03 AM
http://nealmoser.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=33_34&products_id=184&zenid=45783c20a4cba5790044b9631c08266c
BRR0000TOL.. soo much evil in that guitar
Posted by: SLASH91 Mar 7 2008, 03:37 AM
http://nealmoser.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=33_34&products_id=184&zenid=45783c20a4cba5790044b9631c08266c
Like I said in the PM i sent you. I'd really want to play one of those before I bought it. So metal though
Posted by: SLASH91 Mar 7 2008, 07:25 PM
So, Goilath, is Samash.com a good place to buy gear from? I would buy it from Sweetwater, but they don't carry ESP.
Posted by: Goliath Mar 7 2008, 07:36 PM
SamAsh is the first place I look locally for gear, I must admit I've not used their online service. Their local shop is second to none, which I should hope would be a reflection on their over all companies policy towards doing business. Seriously, Sam Ash makes guitar center look foolish on a local level, and there are 2 guitar centers near that sam ash. I would order w/ confidence.
Posted by: SLASH91 Mar 7 2008, 07:40 PM
Thankyou for all of your advice on my numerous threads
You've really been alot of help.
Posted by: Goliath Mar 7 2008, 07:42 PM
My pleasure, it's what a community is all about bro
Posted by: SLASH91 Mar 7 2008, 08:01 PM
Good, cause I have another question
You've mentioned livewires before, and the reviews I've read have said that they are some of the best pickups out there, tightest palmutes, screaming harmonics, etc. Would it be better than a Blackout.
Posted by: Goliath Mar 7 2008, 10:29 PM
I don't know depends how much versatility you want/need. The AHB-1s (blackouts) have 2 output modes, so I believe they can hit the standard output of what's in my DV8R as well as a "boost" mode that can boost the output by 20db (I think) Check out the website. Only problem is if you were to drop it in your ESP, there is a cover you slide on to access the boost or not from the back of the pickup. From what I understand, you CAN wire it to a toggle switch in the body (would be sweet), but I don't know what a Luthier would charge you for that kind of action. I honestly don't think either is a bad decision, it's really to your preference at that point, you could install the AHB and have it run in "loud" mode, or install it in "really loud" mode. Or you could install the 18v livewire and implode the sun. I have the Dave Mustaine sig Live wires (only 9v), and I love them. I honestly don't think you can go wrong. You might consider how much versatility you like. So you can ask yourself this question: Who's tone do you like the most? Alexi Laiho or Dave Mustaine (from United Abominations, he recorded w/ a ESP DV8 w/ the live wire sigs)? I really don't know who uses the 18v LiveWire, but I'm sure it's incredible.
Were it me, in true poser fashion, I'd drop in the Blackouts since then it would be "updated" to the 08 Alexi-600s. Maybe switching modes is very easy and you can do it in 5 mins so you can switch output really easily. Plus, you have the option of down the line getting a toggle installed on it. I love my DM sigs, don't get me wrong their my favorite pickup I've owned and I'd install a pair over my vocal cords if I thought it would do to my voice what it does to guitars, but the boost could be a fun toy to play around with. Also, I've not played an 18v active, I can only imagine what it'd be like, so I'll let someone more experience field that one.
Posted by: SLASH91 Mar 8 2008, 12:08 AM
I think I'll go with the Blackout probably then. The whole two output modes sounds awesome, and I definitely like Laiho's tone more. I'll read up on the Blachouts some more before I make a final desicion. Thanks once again.
PS. By toggle switch do you mean an actual switch that would be installed on the body of the guitar, like a normal pickup selector?
Is this the right one? There's a million of them on Seymore Duncan's website. http://www.seymourduncan.com/products/electric/humbucker/blackouts_metal/
Posted by: Goliath Mar 8 2008, 02:51 PM
My bad, that's right it's the AHB-2. Looks like they also come with a white cover. If you put a white covered pickup in the body of a white guitar, that'd look really sharp.
yeah a toggle switch would be like a pickup selector, but apparently you can connect them to a push/pull pot as well, if you don't want any new holes in the body of your guitar.
Posted by: SLASH91 Mar 8 2008, 03:50 PM
http://www.epinions.com/pr-Online_Stores_Services-SamAsh_com is scaring me off from SamAsh.
Posted by: Guitarman700 Mar 8 2008, 03:58 PM
WOW. those are some BAD experiences.
Posted by: Goliath Mar 8 2008, 04:19 PM
yikes. Don't know what to tell you, I would order over the phone if you were to take them up on that $700 Laiho axe. Take the name of the guy that helps you get a direct dial number for him if you can (I had ordered a guitar from them at one point but it was back ordered for like 3 months and the website didn't have it listed, so I cancelled my order w/ them, they were pretty amenable and easy to deal w/ on the phone).
Prepare for the worst then demand the best is the only advice I can offer.
Posted by: SLASH91 Mar 8 2008, 04:25 PM
I read in one of the reviews that if you order over the phone they automatically create an online profile for you with the password "samash" or something, just lettin you know in case they did. I also read one from an ex-employee who said that they would just repackage damaged goods and send them right back out. I really think it would just be worth $300 extra bucks to make sure I'm safe. I'm really scared to order something from now after all of those terrible reviews.
Posted by: Goliath Mar 8 2008, 04:33 PM
with a V shaped guitar, I can't blame you. Look on ebay, there are literally piles of V's that have chips in the wings from shipping snafus. Even the samash locally had 2 Alexi 600's but both guitars arrived with chips taken off the wings, they glued the chips back because they have a decent luthier in house, but they were marked down to reflect the damage.
Buying a V off the rack might not be a bad idea, or finding one that ships in a HSC would be great.
There's an idea, when I buy a guitar I always buy a case for it, perhaps if you bought it and the case and demanded they ship the guitar IN the case, you'd be in better shape, but then you still run the risk of receiving a dodgy inventory item.
It's a tough call man.
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