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GMC Forum _ Practicing (Muris) _ Beginner's Timing Exercise
Posted by: eddiecat Jan 4 2008, 09:35 PM
Hi Muris! It's me again, Eddie.
I know I said I wouldn't ask you for any more lessons, but I have a little problem. 
I understand and "feel" the note values, but only if I take them one by one.
I'm currently working on your "one string workout", and it's lovely,
but at a certain point I get lost. So here's my request:
Could you please make a "real" beginner's lesson on timing?
Like you start in 8th notes, then to 8th triplets, then to 16th notes, then to 16th triplets, but at 70 bpms?
Maybe my lesson idea is stupid for you, and I know it could be boring to you,
but I'm sure that it would be really helpful!
I would love it!!! 
Thank you.
Eddie
Posted by: Muris Jan 4 2008, 10:22 PM
Idea is not stupid at all Eddie,maybe I'll do it a bit slower,around 60bpm 
Posted by: eddiecat Jan 4 2008, 10:32 PM
60 would be even better, GREAT!!!
Thank you very much,
I hope you see my and many other people's point!
Cheers,
Eddie
Posted by: Muris Jan 4 2008, 10:37 PM
Thank you very much,
I hope you see my and many other people's point!
Cheers,
Eddie
No worries Eddie,you know I'm here to help
Posted by: DeepRoots Jan 4 2008, 10:43 PM
wow a lesson with lots of different note values, great idea!
Perhaps a good thing to add could be a side note on how many notes per beat for each note value.
1 note per beat = quarter note
2 note per beat etc etc
so that beginners can practice any note value to a metronome.
Posted by: Muris Jan 4 2008, 10:45 PM
Perhaps a good thing to add could be a side note on how many notes per beat for each note value.
1 note per beat = quarter note
2 note per beat etc etc
so that beginners can practice any note value to a metronome.
Absolutely,no point of playing all that stuff
if we don't explain it to our beginners,thanks for input!
Posted by: eddiecat Jan 4 2008, 10:55 PM
if we don't explain it to our beginners,thanks for input!
And it would be great to have some kind of click (maybe a Cowbell?)
in the backing track!
Just to make it easier to understand where the first beat is and to count!
Wow!!!
Posted by: Muris Jan 4 2008, 11:09 PM
in the backing track!
Just to make it easier to understand where the first beat is and to count!
Wow!!!
I can do that but I though drums are enough to get beat
Posted by: eddiecat Jan 4 2008, 11:19 PM
SORRY! I forgot the drums!!!I think I fell in love with a metronome!!!
Posted by: Muris Jan 4 2008, 11:20 PM
No problem,I like cows so bell will be included
Posted by: eddiecat Jan 4 2008, 11:25 PM
Muuhhuuuuhuuuhhhhuuuuuu!!!!! 8-8trp-16-16trp.
Posted by: eddiecat Jan 5 2008, 12:38 AM
No kidding, such a lesson would be great for ALL beginners!
Question: why am I the only one requesting these kind of lessons?
Thank you Muris,
Eddie
Posted by: Muris Jan 5 2008, 12:46 AM
I thing that's because you're not shamed to ask,and I appreciate that Eddie!!
Posted by: kahall Jan 5 2008, 04:25 AM
I got a fevah, and the only cure is more cowbell. ;-)
Posted by: shellshock1911 Jan 5 2008, 04:29 AM
Sounds like a good idea. Kinda like your sweep lesson where you start off at 2-string, then 3, then 4, then 5. Except this time quarter notes, 8th notes, 8th note triplets, 16th notes, 16th note triplets. And maybe some other irregular groupings like 5:4, 7:4, 9:8, 10:8, 11:8, etc.
Posted by: Muris Jan 5 2008, 04:03 PM
Nice idea but not for beginner lesson,that's for sure.
Perhaps I'll add irregular groupings in some other lesson.
Posted by: napsternova Jan 5 2008, 04:10 PM
This is a great idea for a lesson that will help me a lot as well. Timing is essential, even when the wrong note is played if the timing is there you still get the idea. This will be excellent for beginners for me that still have a hard time string skipping. lol
Posted by: Freebird Jan 6 2008, 09:57 AM
I don't understand what this lesson will be about 
If it's alternation between 16th and 16th triplets there are many lessons by Muris on this! (new lessons never hurt though!!) And I can't play them 
Posted by: Muris Jan 6 2008, 10:25 AM
8th,8th triplets,16th,16th triplets etc
up to 580th triplets
Posted by: Freebird Jan 6 2008, 10:34 AM
Uhm........ What's your tempo for the 580th triplets?? That would be really shred I guess very fast even with the slowest tempo
By the way the sort of exercise like eddiecat's would be really nice, with a slow tempo (or slow backing track!)
Posted by: eddiecat Jan 6 2008, 05:14 PM
I'm really happy that this lesson I requested seems to be so popular!
I'm sure it will be really helpful to many of us!
To Freebird: I know Muris did a lot of lessons with 16th and 16th triplet notes,
but the problem is to understand and "feel" them,
and I'm afraid that his previous lessons are a bit too challenging and fast
to "have the time to feel the time".
Hope you understand my request now.
Ciao, Eddie
Posted by: Muris Jan 6 2008, 08:33 PM
Ciao, Eddie
We all do Eddie,don't worry at all,
slower lesson for timing is coming up soon.
Posted by: eddiecat Jan 6 2008, 09:44 PM
slower lesson for timing is coming up soon.
Thank you so much.
I'm sure it's going to be a MUST
for anyone who wants to play on time
without hiding behind distortion and delay.
Can't wait for this one!!!
Cheers Eddie
Posted by: Freebird Jan 8 2008, 09:09 PM
Eddie, I would really appreciate this lesson too, because I can't do the triplets in the other lessons up to tempo
Thank you Muris
Posted by: eddiecat Jan 23 2008, 12:26 PM
Hy there, Muris!
Just to thank you personnally for your awsome timing lesson.
I think I'm going to work on this one for a long, long time.
I really think that this is one of the most important lessons on this site
and I'm not going to stop practicing this lesson
till the time changes come to me automatically...
You made me a very happy boy.
Lots of practicing (and counting) in front of me!
Ciao, Eddie
Posted by: Muris Jan 23 2008, 07:14 PM
Glad you like the lesson Eddie,
hope it will improve your timing,
you're more than welcome!!
Posted by: besip Jan 24 2008, 12:52 AM
Great Lesson to hard for me now but will se later maybe if you made something slower will be fine 
i'm have just totaly beghiner question---all the lesson is playing on 70bpm??? and you just changing the speed becouse that is Timing Exercise and you are just changing the time intervals and use them on every each beep right??
so if i'm got this right when you have up to tabs the Q tahts a mean you play 1 note on every each beep when there is E you play 2 note per beep or S- 4 note per beat
but what about this
A
E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E
--------------10----------10--12--|------10--12--14--10--12--14--15--|
--10--12--14------12--14----------|--14------------------------------|
----------------------------------|----------------------------------|
----------------------------------|----------------------------------|
----------------------------------|----------------------------------|
----------------------------------|----------------------------------|
i'm belive here i'm play 2 note per beat right??
D
|---3---| |---3---| |---3---| |---3---|
E E E E E E E E E E E E
--14------12--------------------------------------|
------15------14--15--12--14------12--------------|
------------------------------14------12--14--11--|
--------------------------------------------------|
--------------------------------------------------|
--------------------------------------------------|
but what about here?? there is mark E which mean eighth notes {2 note per beat} but also |---3---| which mean triplets i'm belive...so i'm lost here which speed is right???
and 1 more question out of this topic on this tab
A
E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E
--------------10----------10--12--|------10--12--14--10--12--14--15--|
--10--12--14------12--14----------|--14------------------------------|
----------------------------------|----------------------------------|
----------------------------------|----------------------------------|
----------------------------------|----------------------------------|
----------------------------------|----------------------------------|
is the mark A ---also on Video showing on Video informaction about A-major..what thats realy mean becouse for example A-major chord has note- A C# E but there is not the combinaction so thats be probaly something esle and what it's
sorry probaly dumb question but i'm lost today 
Posted by: Muris Jan 24 2008, 03:01 AM
You got everything right Rene,it's lesson about timing,
which means how many notes per beat.
E above tab means 8ths so it's 2 notes per beat.
E with 3 means 8th triplets,3 notes per beat etc.
About A sign.
It is A major,chord in progression at that moment.
You see,you can play pure scale up and down the neck while chords are changing,
but that'll sound "dry" and without thinking,feeling etc.
I'm starting that part with note A and up in the sequences.
You can start it with B or any other note,try and see/hear the result.
Posted by: besip Jan 24 2008, 04:57 AM
i'm undertsnad what you write bud what about this case
http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/solo-guitar/timing-exercise/ window 3
you play there first S which is sixteenth notes so i'm belive that is 4 note per beat and then
---3----
S
so thats mean-sixteenth notes triplets??? if yes what kind of speed is here if we still talk about 70bpm
the triplets mark make me trouble i'm know thats probalyy easi to understand but i'm still not get it on 100%
it's somewhere here some lesson about this if i'm don't gonna understand that clearly?? 
and thanks for your responding
Posted by: Muris Jan 24 2008, 05:19 AM
16th triplets are 6 notes per beat,straight 16th are 4 notes per beat,right.
Don't worry about tempo now,just try to understand these timings,
speed will come with practicing.
Posted by: besip Jan 24 2008, 06:11 AM
Don't worry about tempo now,just try to understand these timings,
speed will come with practicing.
thats what i'm trying to do
i'm not gonna play the lesson now but i'm interesing to undestand the timing actualy im know the 16th triplets is 6 note per beat..but i'm dont understand 1 thing why i'm can just put the mark for 16th triplets which is T i'm belive and why is there the---3----
S
so boath of them are now 16th triplets...but the end of the song is build on regular T-16th tripplets which is 6 note per beat..but the part befote is ---3--- S whic is also 16th triplets 6 note per beat but that part sound more slowly
sorry for my stupidity
..there is some point what i'm missing
Posted by: preownedguitar Jan 24 2008, 08:00 AM
Hehe I was playing your timing lesson and during the 3rd section very last bar where it goes 17-16-14 I started to play this song, which I can't remember the name but heres what I played.
e|------------------------------------------------------------------------|
b|------------------------------------------------------------------------|
g|------------------------------------------------------------------------|
d|--------------14-16----16~-15----15-14----16----------------------|
a|--14-16-17 --------17---------16--------16--------------------------|
e|------------------------------------------------------------------------|
e|------------------------------------------------------------------------|
b|------------------------------------------------------------------------|
g|----------------------------16-14---------14--------------------------|
d|--------------14-16----16-------16---16-----------------------------|
a|--14-16-17 --------17-------------17--------------------------------|
e|------------------------------------------------------------------------|
I then figured it out the next higher part of the song from memory but I wont tab it out. Do you know this song? haha, great lesson btw
Posted by: blindwillie Jan 24 2008, 08:10 AM
Muris. The guy is in love with a metronome and you say "No problem"?!
Mommy, I'm scared. This is a weird place.
Posted by: eddiecat Jan 24 2008, 08:56 AM
Mommy, I'm scared. This is a weird place.
Don't know why but I went on laughing
for about 5 minutes after reading this post!
Posted by: PlayAllDay Jan 24 2008, 09:10 AM
e|------------------------------------------------------------------------|
b|------------------------------------------------------------------------|
g|------------------------------------------------------------------------|
d|--------------14-16----16~-15----15-14----16----------------------|
a|--14-16-17 --------17---------16--------16--------------------------|
e|------------------------------------------------------------------------|
e|------------------------------------------------------------------------|
b|------------------------------------------------------------------------|
g|----------------------------16-14---------14--------------------------|
d|--------------14-16----16-------16---16-----------------------------|
a|--14-16-17 --------17-------------17--------------------------------|
e|------------------------------------------------------------------------|
I then figured it out the next higher part of the song from memory but I wont tab it out. Do you know this song? haha, great lesson btw
Looks like you stumbled upon in The Hall Of The Mountain King. Cool tune.
Posted by: preownedguitar Jan 24 2008, 09:18 AM
Haha Awesome, I didn't know what it was called. One of those tunes stuck in your head from cartoons when you were younger. Thanks!
Heres a video on youtube of it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzyi3C4gNnE
Posted by: Muris Jan 24 2008, 04:02 PM
Rene,I think you got little confused here.
I'm gonna lead you through whole lesson now,explaining all timing from start till end.
-4th notes...1 note per beat
-4th triplets...1 and half note per beat(6 notes per bar)
-8th...2 notes per beat
-8th triplets...3 notes per beat
-16th...4 notes per beat
-16th triplets...6 notes per beat
-32th...8 notes per beat
Posted by: Ghrim Jan 24 2008, 07:49 PM
This is exactly what I've been looking for, thanks Muris!
Posted by: Muris Jan 24 2008, 08:05 PM
You're welcome
Posted by: besip Jan 25 2008, 12:04 AM
I'm gonna lead you through whole lesson now,explaining all timing from start till end.
-4th notes...1 note per beat
-4th triplets...1 and half note per beat(6 notes per bar)
-8th...2 notes per beat
-8th triplets...3 notes per beat
-16th...4 notes per beat
-16th triplets...6 notes per beat
-32th...8 notes per beat
thanks i'm slowly start geting that..probalyy all i'm need to know what every marks mean{remember} that and i'm be ok ..actualy what made me trouble before was this mark |--3--| but now i'm know thats mark mean triplets so thats why |--3--| S is 16th triplets,,,my friend who play music like 8 years on Viola try to explain me that matematicly why thats like that
but he never see tabs he use just notes..so for me be better just remeber that now thankk you--Rene
Posted by: Muris Jan 25 2008, 01:27 AM
You're welcome,feel free to ask if you need anything else.
Ohh,and your english is getting better every day,well done.
Posted by: besip Jan 25 2008, 01:38 AM
thanks for your compliment
1 more question
this is your previously answer
It is A major,chord in progression at that moment.
You see,you can play pure scale up and down the neck while chords are changing,
but that'll sound "dry" and without thinking,feeling etc.
I'm starting that part with note A and up in the sequences.
You can start it with B or any other note,try and see/hear the result.
so i'm thing i'm got you .. So everythime when you has some mark over video or teling about progresion in this case A-major..so the big thing here is you are using mostly the note from A-major scale or chord but they can also have some note out of scale right...but the main point is you are using mostly the note from a-major scale or chord..thats is why at the time is A-Major and all of this is {Progresion-A-major}
Posted by: Muris Jan 25 2008, 01:41 AM
Scale is B minor,and chord at that moment is A major,it's on 7th degree.
I started with note A,reason is quite simple.
Posted by: besip Jan 25 2008, 02:15 AM
I started with note A,reason is quite simple.
ok i'm check all of this and every start with mark on fretboard thats corect
so all of this on B minor scale with some chord on progresion..thats why there is the marks
hope i'm finaly get that if not you got permision to kill me
Posted by: Muris Jan 25 2008, 02:26 AM
Final statement:
1.Scale we use is B minor scale,all the time.
2. Chord progression include A major chord,on 7th degree.
3. I started that part with note A,to give it more sense.
No worries,I'm not gonna kill you,
you just need to explore a bit more,figure out something on your own,that's all.
Posted by: besip Jan 25 2008, 02:31 AM
thanks for your passion actualy my understatning of this on last post was close i'm belive
and anyway for somebody maybe funny discusion but you made me more smart all ready
Posted by: Muris Jan 25 2008, 02:32 AM
Ok
Posted by: eddiecat Jan 31 2008, 01:25 PM
Hello Muris!
Spent last week on your timing exercise and I can't even begin to tell you
how much I love it. One really gets to hear the different timings
and the high hat guides you so well in getting the note values.
But I have a problem with triplets:
when it comes to triplets I just can't count them evenly,
my brain switches to a 3/4 waltz mode, with the accent on the first note!
Hope you understand what I mean... I find them so hard to get!
Anyway, this is a great lesson
and thanks a lot.
Hope you're doing fine.
Ciao, Eddie
Posted by: Muris Jan 31 2008, 06:50 PM
Glad you're having fun with the lesson Eddie.
About accents and triplets,it IS good to accent each first note from triplets group,
actually that's the easiest way to play them.
Only thing you ave to do is to switch nicely between different triplets,like 8th triplets,16th triplets etc.
Just follow how many notes you have per beat,
if it's 8th triplets then you play 3 notes through the beat accenting first one.
And when it comes to 16th triplets,you just split beat into two parts.
Lets say you're counting it by moving your hand,up and down,hitting the table or som.
Each "down" when you hit the table is new beat.
And "up" move is second half of the beat.
Put 3 notes on each move,up and down,accenting both firsts notes and that's it.
Posted by: eddiecat Jan 31 2008, 07:37 PM
About accents and triplets,it IS good to accent each first note from triplets group,
actually that's the easiest way to play them.
Only thing you ave to do is to switch nicely between different triplets,like 8th triplets,16th triplets etc.
Just follow how many notes you have per beat,
if it's 8th triplets then you play 3 notes through the beat accenting first one.
And when it comes to 16th triplets,you just split beat into two parts.
Lets say you're counting it by moving your hand,up and down,hitting the table or som.
Each "down" when you hit the table is new beat.
And "up" move is second half of the beat.
Put 3 notes on each move,up and down,accenting both firsts notes and that's it.
Thank you! Great hint the one to split the beat into 2 parts!
I guess now it's just a question of practicing and practicing
till I just stop counting and actually "feel" the values...
Gee, I've got so much practicing to do!
As usual, thank you very much.
Bye
Posted by: Muris Jan 31 2008, 07:47 PM
You're welcome Eddie,keep me updated!!
Posted by: eddiecat Feb 1 2008, 08:45 AM
Hi Muris!
Just finished my usual morning practicing
and all I can say now is that my clean top speed
without stopping is 16th notes at 90 bpm's
and I'm confident with 8th triplets.
Do you think it's good at this stage?
Bye
Posted by: Muris Feb 1 2008, 01:11 PM
After few months of playing??You're joking me??
When I was at that stage,I didn't even know what triplets ARE
Keep up the good work Eddie!!
Posted by: eddiecat Feb 1 2008, 04:05 PM
When I was at that stage,I didn't even know what triplets ARE
Keep up the good work Eddie!!
True, but at my stage you didn't have yourself to learn from!
I don't think you can imagine how motivating and helpful your work is. Thanx.
And at low tempos 8th triplets are quite easy to feel
after some practicing because you have enough time
to count those 3 notes per beat...
16th triplets? Forget those!
Thank you once again
and hope you're doing fine.
Eddie
Posted by: Muris Feb 1 2008, 05:18 PM
Well,I'm not gonna forget about 16th triples,you can count on that!!
Grab your axe and get those triplets...otherwise ..well
Posted by: eddiecat Feb 9 2008, 05:03 PM
Hy folks!
For all those who are willing to really practice timing,
I just bought a new metronome (and tuner) that is just great.
It has all the metronome functions you can think of,
including a Subdivision option: let's say you want to practice
16th note triplets, you just have to set the subdivision option to 6
and there you go, you hear all the 6 notes per beat.
I'm posting a photo so you can see it.
It's not very cheap but it's worth the money for sure.
Oh, the metronome is a D'Addario Planet Waves!
Cheers to you all, Eddie
Posted by: Muris Feb 10 2008, 12:12 AM
Nice new tool Eddie,
I hope timing issues will vanish quite soon!!
Posted by: eddiecat Feb 10 2008, 07:20 PM
I hope timing issues will vanish quite soon!!
Hello there!
The tool is great,
my timing not so great...
But I'm sure it will help.
I wish you all the best, cheers
Eddie
Posted by: Muris Feb 10 2008, 07:32 PM
It WILL be better,just needs some time and practicing,
keep it up Eddie,you're doing just great!
Posted by: eddiecat Feb 16 2008, 05:41 PM
Ciao Muris,
16th triplets are sooo hard to count!
I can hear them but I just can't shift to them at higher tempos!
At slower tempos my brain and fingers treat them
like fast 8th triplets but I would like to feel them like 16th triplets, any hints?
New update: 94 bpm, clean 16th notes.
As always, thank you.
(I found a new part time job in a bar on weekends: "money for Pandora?")
Eddie
Posted by: Muris Feb 16 2008, 05:55 PM
It's impossible to treat 16th triplets as 8th triplets Eddie.
Answer is simply,3 notes per beat=8th triplets,6 notes per beat=16th triplets.
Now basic thing is to understand the beat and split it into right pieces.
Once again,try 3+3 combi for 16th triplets.
Posted by: eddiecat Feb 16 2008, 06:04 PM
Answer is simply,3 notes per beat=8th triplets,6 notes per beat=16th triplets.
Now basic thing is to understand the beat and split it into right pieces.
Once again,try 3+3 combi for 16th triplets.
Ok, I will.
I think that my problem is that I just can't SPLIT the beat in half.
But I will force myself to get it.
I'm doing great with my new metronome,
but a soon as I try it over a BT, I get lost!
This is so frustrating, but I'll do my best.
Ok, back to practice...
Posted by: Muris Feb 16 2008, 08:36 PM
Easiest way to get it is to play 3nps patterns,
that way you'll have one string for half of beat and another string for another half.
Simply turn ON metronome on play the same 6 notes in loop,
you'll get it after some while,don't worry,just don't stop!
Posted by: eddiecat Feb 16 2008, 09:31 PM
that way you'll have one string for half of beat and another string for another half.
Simply turn ON metronome on play the same 6 notes in loop,
you'll get it after some while,don't worry,just don't stop!
Nice one! I'll start right now!!!
Thanks
Posted by: eddiecat Feb 16 2008, 10:58 PM
Oh, man...
Aaaarrrrggghhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!
My head hurts, my fingers hurt, my eyes hurt, my butt hurts... everything hurts!
Let's hope tomorrow's going to be a better day!
I'm going to bed, and instead of counting sheeps
I'll count triplets...
Good night.
16... triplets... 16... triplets... 16... triplets... 16... triplets... 16... triplets... 16... triplets... triplets... triplets... tr...............
Posted by: eddiecat Mar 15 2008, 02:03 PM
I'm posting this in the timing thread
because it is really about timing and picking.
Before I always used to practice with a bit of distortion and delay
and it seemed to me that everything I did sounded good.
I was wrong!
Playing clean with just a little reverb showed me that most
of what I was doing was crap (still is, btw ).
Now I only practice "clean" and my timing and picking
have improved a lot.
Maybe it's less fun, but progress is much easier to track!
What do you think?
Eddie
Posted by: Muris Mar 15 2008, 02:10 PM
No Eddie,you're absolutely right,
lots of distortion usually hides some mistakes,specially when it comes to picking.
So you did right thing with moving on clean sound and practicing that way.
Just don't forget to use distortion from time to time as well,
with clean you don't have to do much muting
and you'll still wanting to play some stuff on dist.
So use both for practicing,clean and dist.
Add even acoustic guitar to your routine,that's good way to
upgrade your picking much more.
Posted by: eddiecat Mar 15 2008, 02:45 PM
Yeah, I'll add an acoustic as soon as I can afford one!
I can see another part time job coming up!
Have a nice day!
Eddie
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