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Posted by: jer Oct 9 2008, 04:05 PM

Whenever learning about anything theory related, I am constantly thinking how much easier this is when dealing with a piano keyboard.

VS a guitar neck.

Everything being linear, black sharps and flats, white natural keys, etc...

Does anyone here play both? And if so, is there any insight you can provide that would help a guitarist?

Posted by: Zizi Top Oct 9 2008, 04:10 PM

Well I'd say that in your guitar neck, if you learn your scales shape, then you just have to transpose them all over the neck, and you can play with whatever key you want to. also something that might be good too, is learning all intervalls shape on you neck .
As for Piano, it ain't that good ! I prefer guitar, it's cooler because you can do bends, slide, add vibrato, lot's of feeling, (even if I like Piano too). and as for scale on piano, it ain't that good too, because what you said (about the black for sharps and white for "natural keys") it can be applied only for the C major scale, but if you're playing another scale, it's completely different. for example playing the A major key would be a completely different positions, my advices for you would be to learn intervalls, or scales (on guitar or piano).

Posted by: Rousseau Mannan Oct 9 2008, 05:17 PM

Nice topic jar. Like Zizi said, he likes guitar more; I am a guitar lover I also try to play piano. Well I would say, I'm more of a keyboard player than a real piano player. It is easier to learn scales on piano but I've always had hard time with syncing left & right hand. I guess thats a matter of practice. Its also easier to read sheet for piano than guitar.

I play my own piano and other keyboard parts myself for recording. If I'm playing a complex part, sometimes I record left hand & right hand separately.

Posted by: wrk Oct 9 2008, 06:31 PM

To add what Zizi said, i think it's true that it is maybe easier to transpose your shapes or switch key on the guitar by move everything up or down the neck.
On the other hand a piano is visualizing better whole/half tone steps within scales and even more chords, what makes a piano, beside that it's a nice instrument, a good theory learning tool.

Posted by: Matt23 Oct 9 2008, 06:38 PM

Although its easier to learn scale and chord shapes on guitar, i think the piano is definitely easier for learning about chord, scale theory, and all other kinds of theory.

Posted by: Emir Hot Oct 9 2008, 07:10 PM

I don't play piano but I have friends that play both guitar and piano. They claim it's much easier to compose and "see" shapes and scales while playing piano. I am not sure about that, I have no problems doing it on my guitar.

Posted by: Jose Mena Oct 9 2008, 07:32 PM

I started with piano, I haven't played in a long time, but I would agree that it is easier to visualize things on piano, when it comes to learning theory, harmony and stuff like that. However my fingers move faster on the guitar, but maybe it is because I don't practice piano at all anymore, maybe I should.

Posted by: sigma7 Oct 9 2008, 07:36 PM

i play both. I agree with you 100%. Theory is way easier on the piano because its more organized. But as you know, there are black keys and white keys. Now take this insight and apply it to the inlays of your guitar. Memererizew the notes on the inlays and it will be much easier to know wear the note are. It will still not be easier than a piano because of the many octave jumping and stuff but just work it out and it will become natural to u!

Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Oct 9 2008, 08:10 PM

I don't play piano but I know the theory behind it and use it to compose. I use a yamaha keyboard as a midi controller and when I compose piano arrangements I record it in small parts in the sequencer.
I think that playing the piano is a great tool for composers but you need many time of practice to be good. Some of my favourite composers like Danny Elfman and Yan Tiersen are pianists.

Ramiro Delforte is very good at both instruments so we have to ask him.

gabriel.-

Posted by: sigma7 Oct 9 2008, 08:11 PM

QUOTE (Gabriel Leopardi @ Oct 9 2008, 03:10 PM)

Posted by: JVM Oct 9 2008, 08:18 PM

QUOTE (sigma7 @ Oct 9 2008, 03:11 PM)

Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Oct 9 2008, 08:21 PM

yeah! Both are awesome.

Posted by: Muris Varajic Oct 9 2008, 09:30 PM

QUOTE (Rousseau Mannan @ Oct 9 2008, 06:17 PM)

QUOTE (sigma7 @ Oct 9 2008, 09:11 PM)

Posted by: Ivan Milenkovic Oct 9 2008, 09:35 PM

Both instruments are great. I don't play piano well, only know couple of chords and some simple stuff, but as Muris said the biggest difference is that with piano you have all the notes right there on the board for two hand playing and no doubles. With guitar you have multiple strings and doubling notes, so this adds to the complexity.

Posted by: IDontWantMyUsername Oct 9 2008, 10:31 PM

I do play both instruments, and I agree on theory being easier on the piano at all points, except intervals. When I try to explain intervals to people and I have a piano in front of them, I always think it would be better to expain with a guitar. Though, the piano is a much easier instrument to handle theory-wise.

Posted by: Ramiro Delforte Oct 9 2008, 11:15 PM

The piano is a more graphical instrument. You can associate very fast every key to a note and there is a visual pattern that the guitar doesn't have. All stringed instruments have to learn the scales by making positions (violin, viola, cello, cb, all have 7 positions to learn and they even don't have frets so the have to learn the intonation of the notes as well). But there is always a good thing when there is a bad one. When you've learned the seven positions (I'm thinking of 3 notes per string starting from the 6th) of the C major scale you know all the major scales because the only thing you have to do is transpose that shape. The piano is simplier because you can see what's happening with intervals and the relations between the notes but you have to learn many different fingerings for each scale and you have to duplicate the number of fingerings by 2 because you have to study the scales with both hands and there is a big issue with synchronicity, because each hand passes the finger (to keep the scale running) in a different part of the scale.

In the conservatories all the people that study any instrument (except piano) have to study piano. That's because the piano is like and orchestra. Is the instrument with the biggest range of notes and some things is true that are easier to comprehend by looking to the keyboard. So piano is always a good complement to study harmony and some topics related to theory.

Regarding sight-reading is true that the guitar have different possibilities to play the same note but is also true that the polyphony is bigger in piano. While the guitar could play 6 notes at the same time at most, the piano could play 10. Also the piano uses both hands and the rhythm synchronization is more difficult than the guitar.

Concluding this I think that both instruments are great, I've been playing the piano since I was 5 and the guitar since I was 11. Every instrument have it's complications, the important thing is that each person can find his/her way to understand theory. So if there are some things that are easier to learn them by looking to the piano and then translate them to the guitar is a good way to clarify your mind with other perspective.

Posted by: Gus Oct 10 2008, 12:21 AM

Very clarifying, specially the post by Ramiro

Posted by: Bogdan Radovic Oct 10 2008, 12:25 AM

Thanks guys for clarification , I didn't know much about piano ! One thing I know is that if you master one instrument (guitar) its much much more easier to learn new one (like piano).

Posted by: Ivan Milenkovic Oct 11 2008, 04:50 PM

Thanks for clarifying that Ramiro, very useful post.

Posted by: Ramiro Delforte Oct 11 2008, 05:49 PM

Thanx! If anybody have questions about the piano and wants to post them I could try to bring a hand on that
Also I recommend a few treatises of orchestration

Walter Piston - Orchestration

Hector Berlioz- Treatise on orchestration

Casella - Orchestration

Those books are really helpful to understand the mecanics, range and various things about orchestral instruments.

Posted by: audiopaal Oct 11 2008, 07:24 PM

QUOTE (Zizi Top @ Oct 9 2008, 05:10 PM)

QUOTE (Ramiro Delforte @ Oct 11 2008, 06:49 PM)

Thanx! If anybody have questions about the piano and wants to post them I could try to bring a hand on that
Also I recommend a few treatises of orchestration

Walter Piston - Orchestration

Hector Berlioz- Treatise on orchestration

Casella - Orchestration

Those books are really helpful to understand the mecanics, range and various things about orchestral instruments.

Posted by: besip Oct 12 2008, 02:01 PM

piano makes me crazy...sound so great...i'm was werry imprese to heard 1 litle lady to play when i'm was working on her house......if the day be have more hours...i'm will be like to learn play more instrument like Guitar...Piano will be the second stuff after guitar!!!!!!

Posted by: kaznie_NL Oct 12 2008, 02:39 PM

With guitar it's really easy that you can just transpose things by shoving everything up a fret. This isn't possible on piano!

They're both cool..

Posted by: superize Oct 12 2008, 04:39 PM

I got a keyboard but i dont play it that much since i dont have any good lessons like GMC to help me but i would very much like to learn how to play and write keyboard parts that bands like

Rhapsody
Axenstar
Insania
Dimmu Borgir
Nightwish
Sonata Arctica¨

Use in their music

Posted by: berko Oct 12 2008, 04:52 PM

I've played the piano for 2 years, and i'm still trying to maintain a decent level with some cool minuetts and etudes (mainly from the baroque and romantic period), but the reason why i like guitar better is because you get much closer to creating the sound. Other than considering electric guitar as one of the most versatile instruments due to the millions of effects, you can also create distinctive sound by picking differently, tapping, bending, striking the string harder to gain a certain amount of harmonics, and of course: there are harmonics, vibrato, legato etc.

This way you are basically standing beside the cradle of each sound (oops, to poetical that was... ), you develop them the way you wish.
On the piano, you can only achieve dinamics or the length of a note by pedals (the 3rd pedal for dampening). Still it is only the little hammers which hit the strings.

Same way: guitar is a bit more simple instrument, since you don't really play that much poliphonic stuff (you achive this effect with some serious tapping, or dealy, or hybrid picking + string skipping etc.), whereas on a piano in more difficult pieces you might have to play with both hands totally independently. However, single guitar tunes (especially because of the strong style presented in distinctive playing) are much more stronger.

Anyway, hope that made sense

Posted by: skipdaflip Oct 12 2008, 05:19 PM

Well, I'm not a real good piano player. But I can compose stuff I like myself. I can find a note much easier on a guitar fret, then on a piano. I have to touch every note to hear if it's the same. But when you found one, the rest will follow up very fast.
I think both instruments can be played with some very good hearing skills. I can find out music notes that has been played by another band much easier then my wife on guitar and piano. And that while she's a real piano (classic) player...

But not everybody is the same ofcourse. Some can only play 1 instrument.

Posted by: Zizi Top Oct 12 2008, 06:01 PM

QUOTE (audiopaal @ Oct 11 2008, 08:24 PM)

If you know how to play piano, would you do a lesson on the basics of pianoplaying for the lot of us that don't know how to play?
Man, I'd love to know how to play the piano

Posted by: sidewas lightning Oct 12 2008, 06:08 PM

I played piano a long time ago. I think that piano is a great first instrument because the way it's set up makes it easy to learn how music works on. However, I don't like it that much as an instrument.

Posted by: Pedja Simovic Oct 13 2008, 12:20 AM

I play both instruments but my skills are way weaker on Piano. Having said this I can play scales , chords, inversions here and there and improvise (chords in the left melody in the right etc).
Here is my take on it :

1) Piano is STRAIGHT LINE(left right) vs Guitar that's ALL OVER THE PLACE (left right down up and everything combined)
2) Piano has one note on a certain place vs Guitar where you have that same note on more places (exact same note that is)
3) Piano has a largest range vs Guitar that has 3 octaves (4 the most if you have 24 frets )
4) Piano has different fingering for every scale and chord vs Guitar where you can instantly move same fingering for scales and chords with no difficulty whatsoever
5) Piano has no bends, slides nor vibrato vs Guitar that has all these and other cool techniques
6) Piano has one sound vs Guitar that has multiple sounds just by changing the place where you play and what your right hand does!

This list can go on and on really but I think this is enough to get you thinking about it

Thanks

Pedja

Posted by: Nemanja Filipovic Oct 13 2008, 09:11 AM

Amazing topic.
I play a bit of bout,and I can say that for me,piano and guitar neck are two different worlds.I compose one kind of music on piano and I use piano for more theoretical things,because scales are more "reachable" on piano and plus 8 octaves.

Posted by: Piotr Kaczor Oct 16 2008, 08:27 AM

I've played the piano for a couple of years. I had to do this in music school and university. I've hated piano lessons but later it turned out very helpful. I compose mostly on the piano, but guitar for me is the best instrument to express my emotions.