Do You Believe In A God Or Gods?
Religion
Do you believe in a God or Gods?
Theist [ 47 ] ** [36.43%]
Agnostic [ 25 ] ** [19.38%]
Atheist [ 44 ] ** [34.11%]
Other [ 13 ] ** [10.08%]
Total Votes: 129
  
SamJ
Mar 21 2008, 02:02 PM
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Posts: 352
Joined: 24-December 07
I'm a bit bored and was interested in how many GMC'ers are religous.

Theist - believes in the existence of a God or Gods
Agnostic - isn't sure about the existence of a God or Gods
Atheist - does not believe in the existence of a God or Gods

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Goliath
Mar 21 2008, 10:29 PM
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Posts: 667
Joined: 6-July 07
From: Atlanta, GA, USA
google works both ways friend.

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/b...alcolm/evol.htm

http://www.straight-talk.net/evolution/arguments.shtml


in fact your whole website you keep pointing back to is quite clearly a website with an agenda, about half of the stuff I've read on it that "disproves" counterpoints is some fellow at his computer sitting down and really hashing out the semantics of the phrasing then proving the way it was phrased is somehow inaccurate, rarely does it address the actual issue with the argument.

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-misconceptions.html

Seriously, this guy won't back up any of his claims but falls back on a lot of the "this argument shows a lack of understanding about x." or "if you rephrase this argument this way, then it's true". That's not proving anything. And his argument against the 2nd law is lacking. He pigeon holes the argument as saying "people are thinking this way but they are forgetting about the sun, duh" which doesn't even begin to address it and is pseudointellectualism at its best. Not one of those questions does he answer directly, he creates a frame for the question, shifts it then attempts to "disprove" it. Read his answer to each of those questions in the FAQ. Could I take that FAQ to task point by point like he does? Certainly, but it would require loads of research I'm not willing to do (nor have time) and lots of squabbling over semantics just like he does. I'm coping out of that one just like they cop out about REALLy addressing the fossil record. What cracks me up is he establishes this vague definition of evolution then faults the rest of the arguments "for not understanding evolution". His definition verbatim is : "Biologists define evolution as a change in the gene pool of a population over time" Bravo sir, if your goal is to prove that evolution DOES occur, then that's a fairly easy one and I don't think anyone is arguing that point. Pesticide and antibiotics losing effectiveness plainly prove that, but he skirts away from the argument of "Evolution is the explanation for how humans came to be".

His argument about transitional fossils is absurd and doesn't even begin to confront the issue and is really just approaching it as in "There are these fossils we have found with very slight differences, so there ARE transitional fossils", but what he fails to mention is the lack of any SIGNIFICANT transitional fossils, clear benchmarks along the way form one lineage to the next.

If you dig deeper and look in the "talkorigin.org" archive it pretty much admits that while they have found SOME fossils that show somewhat of a transition, then this supposes that there are LOTS of transitional fossils, they have just not been discovered yet, because it is "excruciatingly boring, soul destroying work".

Basically I submit to you cannot know evolution to be true based on the body of evidence currently available. When you boil it down you have used science to justify a secular belief that you desire to be true yet still lack the proper body of evidence for it to be accepted as truth, which shows an act of "faith" on your behalf that somehow the rest of the information that's missing will fill itself in to support your claim.

EDIT: and now you prove my point with your edit. There is a "missing link" and given the extremely patient nature of the rest of the fossils to suppose that "well maybe it was only around for one generation and no fossils were preserved" is to defeat the entire chain of logic used to develop the argument. I'm not disagreeing that evolution did not/does not happen, but merely acceptance this theory as absolute truth is closing your mind to additional information that may surface, which is not a very scholarly attitude to keep about it. You must always accept the possibility that you may be wrong until all doubt is removed, is basically what I am advocating.

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This post has been edited by Goliath: Mar 21 2008, 10:34 PM


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Robin
Mar 22 2008, 12:29 PM
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Posts: 2.483
Joined: 9-January 07
From: Alta, Norway
QUOTE (Goliath @ Mar 21 2008, 10:29 PM) *
but merely acceptance this theory as absolute truth is closing your mind to additional information that may surface, which is not a very scholarly attitude to keep about it. You must always accept the possibility that you may be wrong until all doubt is removed, is basically what I am advocating.

I agree a 100%. As i said earlier, of course i dont accept it as absolute truth. But i still believe that we know it to a high degree of certainty that evolution is the explanation for the complexity and diversity of life. But i will not try to continute this discussion because you obviously know alot more than me about this. I should thank you, because you encouraged me to start reading more, from both sides.

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Posts in this topic
- Sam Hook   Do You Believe In A God Or Gods?   Mar 21 2008, 02:02 PM
- - Robin   Atheist.   Mar 21 2008, 02:05 PM
- - OrganisedConfusion   Agnostic. A lot of things are made up in my opinio...   Mar 21 2008, 02:06 PM
- - Goliath   I responded before reading your definitions. I re...   Mar 21 2008, 02:19 PM
|- - Muris   Believer.   Mar 21 2008, 02:32 PM
|- - fkalich   QUOTE (Muris @ Mar 21 2008, 08:32 AM) Bel...   Mar 21 2008, 02:46 PM
|- - Robin   QUOTE (fkalich @ Mar 21 2008, 02:46 PM) s...   Mar 21 2008, 02:50 PM
|- - fkalich   QUOTE (Robin @ Mar 21 2008, 08:50 AM) Hmm...   Mar 21 2008, 02:56 PM
|- - Robin   QUOTE (fkalich @ Mar 21 2008, 02:56 PM) n...   Mar 21 2008, 03:03 PM
||- - Duncan   QUOTE (Robin @ Mar 21 2008, 02:03 PM) Wha...   Mar 21 2008, 03:11 PM
||- - Muris   QUOTE (Robin @ Mar 21 2008, 03:03 PM) Wha...   Mar 21 2008, 03:56 PM
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|- - Smikey2006   QUOTE (fkalich @ Mar 21 2008, 09:56 AM) n...   Mar 21 2008, 03:20 PM
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- - Robwylde   Good Friday! I'm a Christian (Believe in G...   Mar 21 2008, 02:34 PM
|- - OrganisedConfusion   QUOTE (Robwylde @ Mar 21 2008, 01:34 PM) ...   Mar 21 2008, 02:37 PM
|- - Robin   QUOTE (Robwylde @ Mar 21 2008, 02:34 PM) ...   Mar 21 2008, 02:39 PM
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- - Duncan   The argument I don't like is the one about how...   Mar 21 2008, 02:44 PM
|- - Wallimann   QUOTE (Duncan @ Mar 21 2008, 09:44 AM) Th...   Mar 21 2008, 02:47 PM
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- - Wallimann   Believer for me. I believe there is only one true ...   Mar 21 2008, 02:46 PM
- - DeepRoots   I chose agnostic- and this may well turn into a gi...   Mar 21 2008, 02:52 PM
- - Maximus   I am a member of this fairly new denomination. Che...   Mar 21 2008, 03:05 PM
|- - Wallimann   QUOTE (Maximus @ Mar 21 2008, 10:05 AM) I...   Mar 21 2008, 07:14 PM
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- - Mrblomme   QUOTE (Maximus @ Mar 21 2008, 03:05 PM) I...   Mar 21 2008, 03:10 PM
- - Smikey2006   I am a nihlist.. one way or another i just don...   Mar 21 2008, 03:16 PM
|- - Muris   I think that even atheists believe in some sort of...   Mar 21 2008, 03:41 PM
|- - Robin   QUOTE (Muris @ Mar 21 2008, 03:41 PM) I t...   Mar 21 2008, 03:49 PM
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- - SinoMan   I believe that this thread will get pretty huge so...   Mar 21 2008, 03:17 PM
- - Goliath   More people have died in the name of religion than...   Mar 21 2008, 03:19 PM
|- - fkalich   QUOTE (Goliath @ Mar 21 2008, 09:19 AM) M...   Mar 21 2008, 08:51 PM
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- - Tomotoms   The way I see it: I cannot prove the existance of ...   Mar 21 2008, 03:42 PM
- - Sam Hook   One theory of life that I find very interesting is...   Mar 21 2008, 03:53 PM
|- - SinoMan   QUOTE (Sam Hook @ Mar 21 2008, 03:53 PM) ...   Mar 21 2008, 03:55 PM
||- - Sam Hook   QUOTE (SinoMan @ Mar 21 2008, 02:55 PM) E...   Mar 21 2008, 03:59 PM
||- - SLASH91   QUOTE (Sam Hook @ Mar 21 2008, 09:59 AM) ...   Mar 21 2008, 06:19 PM
||- - Robin   QUOTE (SLASH91 @ Mar 21 2008, 06:19 PM) I...   Mar 21 2008, 08:15 PM
||- - SLASH91   QUOTE (Robin @ Mar 21 2008, 02:15 PM) May...   Mar 21 2008, 08:31 PM
||- - SLASH91   QUOTE (Robin @ Mar 21 2008, 02:15 PM) May...   Mar 21 2008, 08:32 PM
||- - Robin   QUOTE (SLASH91 @ Mar 21 2008, 08:32 PM) T...   Mar 21 2008, 08:57 PM
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|- - Robin   QUOTE (Sam Hook @ Mar 21 2008, 03:53 PM) ...   Mar 21 2008, 03:57 PM
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- - Tuubsu   Atheist. And think that what fkalich just said wa...   Mar 21 2008, 03:55 PM
|- - Muris   QUOTE (Tuubsu @ Mar 21 2008, 03:55 PM) At...   Mar 21 2008, 04:01 PM
|- - Tuubsu   QUOTE (Muris @ Mar 21 2008, 05:01 PM) Don...   Mar 21 2008, 04:06 PM
|- - Muris   QUOTE (Tuubsu @ Mar 21 2008, 04:06 PM) Ex...   Mar 21 2008, 04:08 PM
|- - Tuubsu   QUOTE (Muris @ Mar 21 2008, 05:08 PM) Noo...   Mar 21 2008, 04:09 PM
|- - Muris   QUOTE (Tuubsu @ Mar 21 2008, 04:09 PM) Wh...   Mar 21 2008, 04:12 PM
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- - jeff   God definitely exisits! How do I know? Beca...   Mar 21 2008, 04:00 PM
|- - Muris   QUOTE (jeff @ Mar 21 2008, 04:00 PM) God ...   Mar 21 2008, 04:01 PM
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- - Nick Kellie   undecided - mostly theist but sometimes not .... I...   Mar 21 2008, 04:05 PM
- - Goliath   Tangent @ Muris: You can't call the treatment ...   Mar 21 2008, 05:48 PM
|- - Muris   QUOTE (Goliath @ Mar 21 2008, 05:48 PM) T...   Mar 21 2008, 07:06 PM
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- - audiopaal   I'm an atheist. I will not begin to discuss re...   Mar 21 2008, 05:56 PM
|- - Trond Vold   QUOTE (audiopaal @ Mar 21 2008, 05:56 PM)...   Mar 21 2008, 06:22 PM
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- - tonymiro   I'm agnostic. I was born and brought up Cath...   Mar 21 2008, 06:49 PM
- - Xranthoius   I'm Athesist, I believe in natural creation of...   Mar 21 2008, 07:13 PM
|- - Wallimann   QUOTE (Xranthoius @ Mar 21 2008, 02:13 PM...   Mar 21 2008, 07:17 PM
||- - Xranthoius   QUOTE (Wallimann @ Mar 21 2008, 01:17 PM)...   Mar 21 2008, 07:21 PM
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|- - Smikey2006   QUOTE (Xranthoius @ Mar 21 2008, 02:13 PM...   Mar 21 2008, 09:05 PM
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- - mattacuk   Me, Well I dont know what to belive either way Wh...   Mar 21 2008, 07:19 PM
- - JVM   In practice I am mostly atheist. Really though, I...   Mar 21 2008, 07:39 PM
- - kevin-riff-after-riff   i belive in the gods of rock   Mar 21 2008, 08:04 PM
- - Sam Hook   QUOTE (Robin @ Mar 21 2008, 07:15 PM) May...   Mar 21 2008, 08:25 PM
|- - Robin   QUOTE (Sam Hook @ Mar 21 2008, 08:25 PM) ...   Mar 21 2008, 08:26 PM
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- - dusty   oh i do love a good theological debate, although u...   Mar 21 2008, 08:26 PM
|- - Robin   QUOTE (dusty @ Mar 21 2008, 08:26 PM) if ...   Mar 21 2008, 08:31 PM
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- - The Uncreator   QUOTE (kevin-riff-after-riff ...   Mar 21 2008, 08:34 PM
- - Pablo Vazquez   I really don´t matter religion or if any person b...   Mar 21 2008, 08:43 PM
- - shellshock1911   I am secretley Buddhist, I don't believe in an...   Mar 21 2008, 08:54 PM
- - Sam Hook   QUOTE (Smikey2006 @ Mar 21 2008, 08:05 PM...   Mar 21 2008, 09:09 PM
|- - Smikey2006   QUOTE (Sam Hook @ Mar 21 2008, 04:09 PM) ...   Mar 21 2008, 09:14 PM
||- - Sam Hook   QUOTE (Smikey2006 @ Mar 21 2008, 08:14 PM...   Mar 21 2008, 09:32 PM
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|- - fkalich   QUOTE (Sam Hook @ Mar 21 2008, 03:09 PM) ...   Mar 21 2008, 09:24 PM
|- - Robin   QUOTE (fkalich @ Mar 21 2008, 09:24 PM) I...   Mar 21 2008, 09:37 PM
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- - Zephyr   I'm definitely a religious guy. I'm a Chri...   Mar 21 2008, 09:10 PM
- - Goliath   Religion in it's entirety is a way for man to ...   Mar 21 2008, 09:24 PM
|- - fkalich   QUOTE (Goliath @ Mar 21 2008, 03:24 PM) I...   Mar 21 2008, 09:28 PM
|- - Robin   QUOTE (Goliath @ Mar 21 2008, 09:24 PM) I...   Mar 21 2008, 09:31 PM
||- - fkalich   QUOTE (Robin @ Mar 21 2008, 03:31 PM) Not...   Mar 21 2008, 09:38 PM
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|- - SLASH91   QUOTE (Goliath @ Mar 21 2008, 03:24 PM) R...   Mar 21 2008, 10:04 PM
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- - Goliath   Robin you don't look at the evidence against i...   Mar 21 2008, 09:43 PM
|- - Robin   QUOTE (Goliath @ Mar 21 2008, 09:43 PM) R...   Mar 21 2008, 09:45 PM
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- - Sam Hook   Is evolution merely a "theory"? No. The...   Mar 21 2008, 09:48 PM
- - Mrblomme   I only believe in all the gods from the Manowar al...   Mar 21 2008, 09:50 PM
- - The Spartan   Well,I'm Muslim so I'm a monothiest,I beli...   Mar 21 2008, 10:13 PM
- - fkalich   QUOTE (Goliath @ Mar 21 2008, 03:24 PM) * "E...   Mar 21 2008, 10:19 PM
|- - Smikey2006   [/quote] NAME ONE! There are not colossal ga...   Mar 21 2008, 10:40 PM
|- - shellshock1911   To put and end to the arguement that it is either ...   Mar 21 2008, 10:46 PM
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- - Siggum   Personally i am a non beliver, i respect all relig...   Mar 21 2008, 10:48 PM
- - ActiveX   I was raised in a very strict Christian home, and ...   Mar 21 2008, 11:23 PM
|- - Smikey2006   QUOTE (ActiveX @ Mar 21 2008, 06:23 PM) I...   Mar 22 2008, 02:15 AM
||- - Muris   Here's how I see things,could be a bit odd tho...   Mar 22 2008, 02:50 AM
||- - leedbreak   Yes, I Praise Him as well. Its like having Flowe...   Mar 22 2008, 07:32 AM
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|- - Tuubsu   QUOTE (ActiveX @ Mar 22 2008, 12:23 AM) I...   Mar 22 2008, 06:39 AM
|- - swingline   QUOTE (Tuubsu @ Mar 21 2008, 10:39 PM) On...   Mar 22 2008, 08:18 AM
|- - Tuubsu   QUOTE (swingline @ Mar 22 2008, 09:18 AM)...   Mar 22 2008, 08:24 AM
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- - kivler   believer   Mar 21 2008, 11:35 PM
- - swingline   I'm a believer, a Roman Catholic. I don't ...   Mar 22 2008, 08:15 AM
- - The Uncreator   QUOTE (Muris @ Mar 21 2008, 05:50 PM) But...   Mar 22 2008, 02:17 PM
- - at lights end   i was brought up into the church of england. but a...   Mar 22 2008, 09:18 PM
- - Wallimann   It's always a little delicate to share your be...   Mar 22 2008, 11:03 PM
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