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GMC Forum _ CHILL OUT _ Who Knows About Tubes And Amps?
Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Apr 28 2012, 09:33 PM
Hello guys. Today I went to my luthier's house to set-up my guitars for the next weekend shows and we have been talking a lot about tune amps, tubes, digital emulators, etc. I told him that I wasn't 100% happy with my Dual Rectifier tone, because I feel that it's a bit trebly and lacks mids. He suggested me to try switching from 6l6 tubes to EL34 to get a fuller sound and more mids. He also talked about other valves that were bigger but I don't remember the models.
Does anybody know a bit more about this?
Posted by: Sensible Jones Apr 28 2012, 09:48 PM
I'm not greatly knowledgeable, but I do know that replacing 6L6's with EL34's does fatten the sound up and improves your mid-range.
I have tried this in a couple of Bugera Heads at my friends Shop!
Try it, if it's not quite the change you want then think about other options fterwards!
Posted by: Nihilist1 Apr 28 2012, 09:54 PM
EL34's are definitely the way to go. Just make sure that you hit the Valve selector switch before doing so, that way you take care of all the biasing issues. In my experience, all Mesa Boogie's sound thin, but I have only played ones with 6L6's. Making the switch should most certainly change things up.
If anything, call the factory:
We are open 9:00am-5:00 pm Pacific Time,
Monday through Thursday.
Phone: 707-778-6565
I am certain they will be happy to help you with any questions you have.
Posted by: SpaseMoonkey Apr 28 2012, 10:06 PM
I believe stock tubes in the Mesa is EL34s, mine are 6L6s as well. I played Dual and I was like this is that great sounds they talk about? Well it sucks, so I ordered the Triple, it's no better. I tossed in all new tubes since I got it used still sounded bad. Dropped a TS in front of it and I haven't turned it off since. Has more bite to it if you ask me. I'd like to try a set of EL34s but not feeling its worth dropping that kind of cash right now. If you don't use a tube screamer maybe see if that give a bit of the tone you want.
Posted by: Nihilist1 Apr 29 2012, 12:57 AM
Distortion pedals tend to help massive amounts in this case. I myself cannot stand Mesa Boogie. So I am a bit biased, haha.
Posted by: Alex Feather Apr 29 2012, 07:56 AM
Does anybody know a bit more about this?
Well I am not sure which Rectifier you have but if you are putting EL34 instead of 6L6 I think it might be risky if it doesn't have a switch on the back! If it does you are fine! If it doesn't make sure that your fuze is good because if something will happen fuze will save your amp!
Posted by: Nihilist1 Apr 29 2012, 08:01 AM
Double-Rectifiers have a Bias switch.
http://www.mesaboogie.com/Product_Info/Rectifier_Series/Dual_Rectifier/dual_rectifier.html
Posted by: Slavenko Erazer Apr 29 2012, 10:50 AM
Always Marshalls und ENGLs , never rectifiers!! 
Posted by: Nihilist1 Apr 29 2012, 10:58 AM
My top three are:
Sunn O))) (pronounced "Sun")
Laney
Orange
In that order. Those Sunn O))) amps are what I want most in an amp. They get great Psychedelic/Prog/Art Rock tones and they get really ballsy metal tones. Finding them is the real issue...
Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Apr 29 2012, 08:26 PM
Both the other guitarists with whom I am playing in Aria own Mesa Boogie Road King and Roadster and they get awesome tones out of them - indeed, the Road King with the tube screamer has a certain bite to it. I tried it with the Suhr Shiba Drive and it rocks as well. The stuff recorded on the Aria songs which you heard are recorded with Mesa Boogie Roadking and Crate Blue Voodoo 120 both having the Suhr Shiba drive in front. The cab we used was a 4x 12 1987, straight Marshall cabinet. It looked like it was on the verge of collapsing and yet the tone we got was great 
I will ask my two mates for some advice on this and let you know
Cosmin
Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Apr 29 2012, 08:54 PM
Hey guys! Thanks for all this help. I have a Mesa Boogie Dual Rectifier with three channels. It has a switcher for 6l6 or EL34 so it won't be a problem. It seems that switching to EL34 could really help, I don't have a tube screamer but I will borrow one to try it. Do you use it to add sustain and drive or for getting a different tone?
Posted by: Nihilist1 Apr 29 2012, 09:02 PM
All of the above.
Posted by: SpaseMoonkey Apr 29 2012, 09:24 PM
I just run mine ' drive: off , tone: noon , level/volume: full on '. It helps me get a tighter tone, more crunch, and treble.
Posted by: Nihilist1 Apr 29 2012, 09:34 PM
Here are my distortion pedal settings for extreme metal.
Drive: 0%
Tone: 25%
Volume: 75%
Posted by: Mudbone Apr 29 2012, 11:58 PM
You could just need some new tubes. When was the last time you changed them? The EL34's will give you more midrange, but 6L6's typically have a bigger bottom end.
You could try using different types of 6L6's, but they won't produce a drastic tonal difference. The TAD (Tube Amp Doctor) 6L6GC-STR is a very good 6L6.
There are other tubes in the 6L6 family, such as the KT-66 and the 5881. They each have their own qualities. Check with Mesa before you decide to install any different kind of tube.
This is the http://www.dougstubes.com/ where I get my tubes from, very cool guys to deal with.
Edit: Check and see if you can install KT-88 or 6550's in your amp. The KT-88 is the grand daddy of all tubes, and the amps that are equipped with them are EXTREMELY loud and powerful. A few examples include the the Blackstar Series-1 200, the Marshall Kerry King JCM 800, and the Splawn Nitro. The 6550 is also a very powerful tube, its essentially a beefier and higher output version of the 6L6. In fact, many of the the Marshall amps that were imported into the US during the 80's were equipped with 6550's. Much of the classic Marshall sound of the 80's wasn't produced by the EL34, but rather the 6550. Slash's signature head is equipped with these.
Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Apr 30 2012, 02:56 AM
You could try using different types of 6L6's, but they won't produce a drastic tonal difference. The TAD (Tube Amp Doctor) 6L6GC-STR is a very good 6L6.
There are other tubes in the 6L6 family, such as the KT-66 and the 5881. They each have their own qualities. Check with Mesa before you decide to install any different kind of tube.
This is the http://www.dougstubes.com/ where I get my tubes from, very cool guys to deal with.
Edit: Check and see if you can install KT-88 or 6550's in your amp. The KT-88 is the grand daddy of all tubes, and the amps that are equipped with them are EXTREMELY loud and powerful. A few examples include the the Blackstar Series-1 200, the Marshall Kerry King JCM 800, and the Splawn Nitro. The 6550 is also a very powerful tube, its essentially a beefier and higher output version of the 6L6. In fact, many of the the Marshall amps that were imported into the US during the 80's were equipped with 6550's. Much of the classic Marshall sound of the 80's wasn't produced by the EL34, but rather the 6550. Slash's signature head is equipped with these.
That's exactly what the luthier was saying. He suggested the KT-88, I didn't remember the name. His idea is to come to my home with many tubes and try everything. He also talked about the 6550 as an option. Exactly what I'm looking for is more mid-range and less highs.
Posted by: Mudbone Apr 30 2012, 04:48 AM
Sounds like a good plan
So what kind of cab are you playing it through? What speakers are in it? Its a possibility you might just need a different cab/speakers. That will have a much bigger tonal difference than changing the tubes. But don't let that stop you from changing the tubes though. Changing the tubes in and of itself is a good experience. If you have never done it before you'll never be completely satisfied until you tried all of them lol
Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Apr 30 2012, 04:33 PM
So what kind of cab are you playing it through? What speakers are in it? Its a possibility you might just need a different cab/speakers. That will have a much bigger tonal difference than changing the tubes. But don't let that stop you from changing the tubes though. Changing the tubes in and of itself is a good experience. If you have never done it before you'll never be completely satisfied until you tried all of them lolI have a Marshall 1960B (Celestion G12T-75), I tried my head with a cabinet that had Celestion V-30 and I liked it much more, so I will try to get some them to my cabinet. Do you know any other better option?
Posted by: maharzan Apr 30 2012, 05:03 PM
Ah you are getting older.
Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Apr 30 2012, 05:37 PM
hahaa I see!
Posted by: fkalich Apr 30 2012, 06:57 PM
A lot of good info here, they also are good about giving advice or answering questions.
http://eurotubes.com/
Posted by: SpaseMoonkey Apr 30 2012, 07:20 PM
Yey! I have the same cab as you but a slant!
I want to replace them out with V-30s as well I've heard lots of good things with that combo.
Posted by: Nihilist1 Apr 30 2012, 10:09 PM
Celestion V-30's are the way to go!
Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Apr 30 2012, 11:54 PM
http://eurotubes.com/
Cool link! Thank you!
Posted by: Mudbone May 1 2012, 01:57 AM
The G12T-75 has more low end and more treble response than the V30's, and the V30 has a stronger midrange. So what some people do is mix the two in one cab, and that way you get much more of the audio spectrum covered. Randall used to sell a signature Kirk Hammett cab that had this combination. It is very effective, and gives your an almost three dimensional sound. When you play live you will probably need two mics to get your sound, but that shouldn't be too much trouble. This is actually a cheaper to than changing your whole cab or all the speakers. Just make sure you install them in an X-pattern.
Check out this demo. I'm sure there are many more like it on YouTube.
Posted by: DeGroot May 1 2012, 09:23 PM
I'm sure most of this has been covered but I thought I'd share my experience.
I have a Laney GH 50 watt with the same Marshall 1960 straight cab you are using. This amp also has the same feature with the power tube bias switch from 6L6 and EL34. I always preferred the EL34's cause of a tighter sounding crunch like a Marshall JCM. It seemed at least with my amp the 6L6 power tubes sounded too muddy. Also, if you have used the amp for many hours it might be time to change out the old power tubes. As you mentioned it might be a matter of just pairing different speakers that match the amp better.
I also spent some time experimenting with the preamp tubes. I used some different style preamp tubes that I mixed and matched. Tried them in different sequence and found that you can achieve some nice results in changing the sound. I have 5 preamp tube slots in my Laney and one is for the effects loops. The effects loop required a ecc85 to work best for mine. Experimenting with the preamp tubes i found can change the sound of the amp more dramatically then even the power tubes.
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