Time Signatures Options

[steve25]

I'm not sure i understand the different between 6/4 and 12/8 aren't these pretty much the exact same thing? Why would someone use 12/8 instead of 6/4?

[Ramiro Delforte]

The 12/8 measure is more alike to the 4/4 the internal subdivision is the difference.
The 12/8 is made with four dotted quarters and the 4/4 is made with four quarters. So the four dotted quarters are divided into 3+3+3+3 8th notes and in the 4/4 the quarters are 2+2+2+2 8th notes.

The 6/4 has the same amount of 8th notes that the 12/8 measure but the internal grouping is very different. Because the 6/4 would be 2+2+2+2+2+2. Although the 6/4 is a measure that if you don't pay attention could be heard as two 3/4 measures and that measure is related with the compound ones (3/8; 6/8; 9/8 and 12/8). So could be in a way related the 6/4 and the 12/8.

Tell me if this claryfies a little or if I made it more complex

[steve25]

Hmm, i still don't see how they are different they contain the same amount of notes and i'm not sure why someone would choose 12/8 over 6/4

[Dejan Farkas]

The second number determines the beat

12/8 that the beat is 8th note, 6/4 is quarter note

[utak3r]

hm, for me it's just a matter of noting notes as quarters or 8ths or something other... but what's the difference if I write my own song with 6 quarters in a bar or I 12 8ths? it's just a matter of tempo

[Dejan Farkas]

The difference is in counting

let's take for something easier for example, 2/2 and 4/4.. you have the same number of quarter notes in both cases, but in the first case you will count ONE-TWO-ONE-TWO and in the second ONE-TWO-THREE-FOUR, meaning that the phrase in the first case is shorter than in the second

Different time signatures are here to make easier the writting and reading of notes

[Resurrection]

I don't know if this will help or confuse

6/4 has 2 primary beats to the bar, each of which is subdivided into 3 quarter notes, so the duration of each beat is a dotted half note

12/8 has 4 primary beats to the bar, each of which is subdivided into 3 8th notes, so the duration of each beat is a dotted 8th note.


To my ear, I can often tell the difference between similar time signatures by how the player uses accents. For example, accenting just the first note in each bar in a piece of music in 12/8 will usually give a different rhythmic effect than playing exactly the same set of notes at a higher tempo in 6/4. After all, a bar of music in 4/4 doesn't usually sound exactly the same as 2 bars of 2/4.

I don't know if this is the correct "music theory" way to think about these things, but it seems to me that if you only think about durations and don't think about rhythm and where accents are placed then different time signatures can appear to be identical.

This post has been edited by Resurrection: Feb 5 2009, 03:37 PM

[utak3r]

6/4 has 2 primary beats to the bar, each of which is subdivided into 3 quarter notes, so the duration of each beat is a dotted half note

12/8 has 4 primary beats to the bar, each of which is subdivided into 3 8th notes, so the duration of each beat is a dotted 8th note.

hmm, ok, that's something. Can someone give music examples to listen to?

[Ramiro Delforte]

This piece is in 12/8



This post has been edited by Ramiro Delforte: Feb 5 2009, 08:10 PM

[Resurrection]

For an example of 6/4, listen to this from about 4:30

[steve25]

That's fine about the counting thing, but surely counting 12 8th notes instead of 6 quarter notes is just making life more difficult for yourself?

[DeepRoots]

It may count up to the same amout of notes you can fill in a bar- but choosing the time signature is about the pulse of the music also

[Ramiro Delforte]

steve 25 I think you didn't understand the first post I made. You don't count 12 8th notes, you count 4 dotted quarter notes it's like you count 8 8th notes in a 4/4 measure doesn't make much sense, you just count 4 quarters.
That's why I make the analogy between the 4/4 measure and the 12/8 measure because in both you count up to 4 but in the simple measure you count quarters and in the compound you count dotted quarters.

[steve25]

steve 25 I think you didn't understand the first post I made. You don't count 12 8th notes, you count 4 dotted quarter notes it's like you count 8 8th notes in a 4/4 measure doesn't make much sense, you just count 4 quarters.
That's why I make the analogy between the 4/4 measure and the 12/8 measure because in both you count up to 4 but in the simple measure you count quarters and in the compound you count dotted quarters.

I really don't get it :/

[Pedja Simovic]

In 4/4 driving pulse in music is Quarter note
In 12/8 driving pulse is 8th note

Thats basically what you type your foot to.

12/8 is mostly used for shuffle blues while 4/4 is standard time signature applied in all styles of music.
Hope that helps Steve

[steve25]

In 4/4 driving pulse in music is Quarter note
In 12/8 driving pulse is 8th note

Thats basically what you type your foot to.

12/8 is mostly used for shuffle blues while 4/4 is standard time signature applied in all styles of music.
Hope that helps Steve

I know the difference between 4/4 and 12/8 but i wanted to know the difference between 12/8 and 6/4

[Pedja Simovic]

I know the difference between 4/4 and 12/8 but i wanted to know the difference between 12/8 and 6/4

Honestly I havent seen that much of 6/4 !!!
It comes around to being same thing. Sometimes people determine 12/8 rather than 6/4 if predominant rhythm in piece uses eight notes ! That way you avoid ties and dots in 6/4 and makes it easier to notate score in 12/8.

Hope that helps

[Ramiro Delforte]

I've made a guitar pro file for you to listen to the difference.

Also I've found this interesting link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_music...time_signatures

And I recommend that you get the Bach score from the piece that I posted from this site http://imslp.org/wiki/P%C3%A1gina_principal if you're allowed in your country. (Read the terms before)

Attached File(s)

 Example_Time_Signature.gp5 ( 2.85K ) Number of downloads: 8

 

[Resurrection]

A couple of reasonable articles on time signatures and meter can be found at

http://cnx.org/content/m10956/latest/
http://cnx.org/content/m12405/latest/

They may help make things a little clearer

I know the difference between 4/4 and 12/8 but i wanted to know the difference between 12/8 and 6/4