Modal Question. Options

[Jesse]

I was going trough your first 2 videos, and I had a revelation, a small one, but it still felt like. Eureka!

Ok, when I'm in G major.

The first "mode" is Ionian, for the G Major that has the root, ofcourse, G Major.
Then for the "second" the mode is Dorian. Which is Minor because all second "steps" in the major scale are minor, right?
So, the "g" dorian, starts from the A note, but how would you go about constructing it, which formula and how would you call it? Since you can't call it G Dorian, because it doesn't have the G as the root note. Would it be 2122212 starting from the A? Which is A Dorian, but how do you call it, if you'd want to let people know it was going on in the G. Or is it that, it's just called A dorian because, the only Major scale that has the A as dorian is the G Major scale?

I'm on the brink of breaktrough, after times of confusion!:D

[David Wallimann]

I was going trough your first 2 videos, and I had a revelation, a small one, but it still felt like. Eureka!

Ok, when I'm in G major.

The first "mode" is Ionian, for the G Major that has the root, ofcourse, G Major.
Then for the "second" the mode is Dorian. Which is Minor because all second "steps" in the major scale are minor, right?
So, the "g" dorian, starts from the A note, but how would you go about constructing it, which formula and how would you call it? Since you can't call it G Dorian, because it doesn't have the G as the root note. Would it be 2122212 starting from the A? Which is A Dorian, but how do you call it, if you'd want to let people know it was going on in the G. Or is it that, it's just called A dorian because, the only Major scale that has the A as dorian is the G Major scale?

I'm on the brink of breaktrough, after times of confusion!:D

I'm excited for you, you are getting close!
It's easier than what you think really.
Here is what you need to remember:

Starting a G Ionian scale from its second note (A) is called A Dorian. It's that simple!
In other words, within the same scale, you have 6 others hidden in there. Take a look at the following scales, they all share the same notes:

G Ionian
A Dorian
B Phrygian
C Lydian
D Mixolydian
E Aeolian
F# Locrian

The only difference is the starting note. What makes the color of a mode is not the scale by itself, but the relation that it has with a given root.

If you played a G Ionian scale without a backing track, I wouldn't be able to tell if you were in G Ionian, A Dorian, B Phrygian or any other of these because they all share the same notes. It's the root (or chord) behind the scale that makes it modal.

You can verify that by recording a very simple lick in G Ionian.
As you play the recording, play an ongoing G bass note, your lick will sound like it is in G Ionian.

Now over the same lick, play an ongoing A bass note, the same exact lick sounds like it's Dorian.

And so forth.. Makes sense? :-)

[Jesse]

Heeey... so the modal "feel" is not so much trough the modes, but trough the chord's and stuff that's behind it.
How cool!:D

This post has been edited by Jesse: May 3 2009, 09:37 AM

[kjutte]

Heeey... so the modal "feel" is not so much trough the modes, but trough the chord's and stuff that's behind it.
How cool!:D

It's all about where you put your root (Tonic).
Say you play C Ionian, but with a sole F chord, it will sound lydian because F is the 4th note of Ionian, and Lydian the 4th mode.

Basically you can play the same pattern, and just move the tonic chord, and you will with that alone modulate through all the modes. Relative modulation is not the most distinct, but you'll hear it for sure.

When you play C maj to C chord, the notes will be 1 2 3 4 5 6 7, however if you play it to an F chord it will be 1 2 3 #4 5 6 7.
This is what it's all about. When you change root chord, the rootnotes also change, and ultimately this causes modulation.

Edit: sorry for butting inn, David!

This post has been edited by kjutte: May 3 2009, 09:50 AM

[David Wallimann]

It's all about where you put your root (Tonic).
Say you play C Ionian, but with a sole F chord, it will sound lydian because F is the 4th note of Ionian, and Lydian the 4th mode.

Basically you can play the same pattern, and just move the tonic chord, and you will with that alone modulate through all the modes. Relative modulation is not the most distinct, but you'll hear it for sure.

When you play C maj to C chord, the notes will be 1 2 3 4 5 6 7, however if you play it to an F chord it will be 1 2 3 #4 5 6 7.
This is what it's all about. When you change root chord, the rootnotes also change, and ultimately this causes modulation.

Edit: sorry for butting inn, David!

That's right!
It comes down to saying that one note by itself doesn't really mean anything.
It needs something behind to have a true meaning.