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> Www.musiclearningtools.net, .. a personal project
wrk
post Jun 6 2009, 11:03 AM
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QUOTE (Pedja Simovic @ Jun 6 2009, 11:41 AM) *
You welcome Andy.
I don't think you have to worry too much about VST sounds right now. Midi for trumpet for example sounds nothing like trumpet - the ones I tried at least biggrin.gif This is more of a guide for developing great ear and doing arrangements. I am sure you can find a lot of free VST's that offer these in them. I use Reason and it has virtually everything in there. Allows you to create your own patches from scratch as well as to use original combined patches with effects and everything. That might be worth looking into...

Regarding Bass, you are absolutely right - bass plays octave lower than guitar for example. By definition C1 and D3 would be Major 9th. When we talk about intervals larger then octave we end on 15th which is two octaves away from first note. That is why if we have C1 and D3 it would be treated as major 9th rather then major 2nd. In practice, your ear will learn to hear major 2nd so it will not care how far away are these two notes apart.
Hope that answers your question somewhat.

One more thing... Sound ranges definitely influence ability to recognize intervals. If you play intervals in really low range of piano for example, it will be very hard almost impossible to recognize intervals. If you go from middle range up you should be perfectly fine with it !

True, no need to sound like real instruments, but it should sound at least pleasant. Otherwise i would stop after 5 chords laugh.gif. I will look into it.

I was not sure about how octaves steps are handled in ear training, but now it's clear. Thanks for the explanation smile.gif

Maybe that could be another option later to shift the playback one octave up or down.



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Pedja Simovic
post Jun 6 2009, 11:09 AM
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QUOTE (wrk @ Jun 6 2009, 12:03 PM) *
True, no need to sound like real instruments, but it should sound at least pleasant. Otherwise i would stop after 5 chords laugh.gif. I will look into it.

I was not sure about how octaves steps are handled in ear training, but now it's clear. Thanks for the explanation smile.gif

Maybe that could be another option later to shift the playback one octave up or down.


Yeah sure thing Andy, intervals until and after octave, very useful stuff smile.gif


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wrk
post Jun 9 2009, 11:13 AM
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Hi,

I got some nice ideas for improvements from you guys and wanted to give a short update what has changed since the last version of the Ear Training tool.

- Muris suggested to avoid to play the same intervals a few time after each other. This is integrated now, with the exception if more then 2 intervals/chords are selected.

- Stephane suggested to add a random playback mode. That was an nice idea and is integrated now.

- Pedja got the idea to integrate sets of different instruments. The functionality is integrated, but the audio files are still in production (kindly done by my dad smile.gif). Some new instruments are added already (Clarinet, Flute, Oboe) which will be later combined as sets (woodwinds sections, brass section, string section and a band set). Check them out .. some are really nice for practicing imo !!

To keep the configuration interface clean and intuitive, i change the way to select the sound libraries and play modes. Like this endless variations can be easily added. ... looks a bit "iPhoneish" laugh.gif

@Skalde : i try to find a good solution to have sound examples played of intervals/chords. The same for select all/none. Your ideas are not forgotten .. smile.gif

@Oxac/Pedja : i really liked the chord progression/cadences idea. This will be the next tool i'm working on. I just need to collect more informations for this. Any help or hints where to find resources are greatly appreciated!


A "Thank you" to everybody so far. I got quite motivated again and hope you will like the improvements. Nice side effect for me is .. my ear is slowly developing, just by working/testing this tool laugh.gif

http://www.musiclearningtools.net/

Andy


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Skalde
post Jun 9 2009, 10:13 PM
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I would start with intervals. They are pretty easy to remember. At least the most common ones
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wrk
post Jun 9 2009, 11:43 PM
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QUOTE (VictorUK @ Jun 9 2009, 11:04 PM) *
Hey ive been doing ear training lately but im just wondering... what is best to learn first?

intervals
7th chords
or
triads?

Yes, i guess starting with intervals would makes sense. Intervals are the basics of chords. Then triads and after 7th chords. If you developed already a good ear for 3rd's and 5th's, you could start already with triads. The same with 7th's for 7th chords.

I'm not that far by now with ear training, but i guess a good developed ear for intervals will help to identify all kind of chords. I split chords in intervals in my brain to know what kind of chord it is. I suppose it will become more natural at some point, by hearing the sound of the chord on it's own.






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Ivan Milenkovic
post Jun 10 2009, 01:19 AM
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Definiitely true mate! smile.gif

Learning the sounds of intervals, and the theory rules that can be applied when calculating them means a lot. If you want I can make a small article on basics on intervals explained in a nice way, would you be interested in that? smile.gif


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wrk
post Jun 10 2009, 03:00 PM
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QUOTE (Ivan Milenkovic @ Jun 10 2009, 02:19 AM) *
Definiitely true mate! smile.gif

Learning the sounds of intervals, and the theory rules that can be applied when calculating them means a lot. If you want I can make a small article on basics on intervals explained in a nice way, would you be interested in that? smile.gif

Would be great if you could do that. I guess it will be helpful for the ones interested in this topic. Thank you Ivan !! smile.gif





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Pedja Simovic
post Jun 10 2009, 03:05 PM
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Check out my interval series lessons. I have covered 2nds, 3rds, 4ths, triotne and 5ths so far. There is 6ths 7ths and octave left to complete it all.


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Ivan Milenkovic
post Jun 10 2009, 03:51 PM
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OK then, this can eventually go into wiki if needed smile.gif

If you're interested in more hands-on-hands approach you can check out Pedja's interval series where he explains everything nicely using some simple examples. I think combining this article with his lessons would be something useful perhaps. I've made this article based on a book on music theory that I red several years ago:

Intervals:

As atoms are building bloks or matter, intervals are the building blocks of melody and harmony. A good definition of an interval is "the space between the notes". On the next example you can observe the list of basic intervals starting from C:
notes_interval names
C (root)
Db minor 2nd (half step)
D major 2nd (whole step)
Eb minor third
E major third
F perfect 4th
F#(or Gb) tritone (augmented 4th for F# or diminished 5th for Gb)
G perfect 5th
G# (Ab) augmented 5th for G# or minor 6th for Ab
A major 6th
A# (Bb) augmented 6th for A# or minor 7th for Bb
B major 7th
C octave

here are some very well known melodies that use common intervals for ear training:

interval - tunes
minor 2nd Theme from Jaws
major 2nd Happy Birthday
minor 3rd Chopin’s Funeral March
major 3rd Kum Ba Ya
perfect 4th Here Comes The Bride
tritone Theme from The Simpsons
perfect 5th Theme from Star Wars, Twinkle Twinkle Little Star
minor 6th The Entertainer (3rd to 4th note)
major 6th Nobody Knows The Trouble I’ve Seen (descending), NBC Theme
minor 7th Theme from the original Star Trek, Somewhere from West Side Story
major 7th Bali Hai (Up an octave, then down a half step)
octave Somewhere Over The Rainbow


Inverting intervals:

An important skill all musicians must have, especially when transposing is the ability to invert intervals. If you have to transpose a tune "up a major 6th" on the spot, you'll probably find it easier to transpose it "down a minor 3rd", which is the same thing. A 3rd is a lot closer than 6th. In other words, you need to know that a major 6th inverts to a minor 3rd. When you invert an interval, you take the bottom not and put it on top, or vice versa. The result is a new interval, and the rules for inverting intervals are simple.

When you invert an interval:

- Major becomes minor
- Minor becomes major
- Perfect remains perfect
- Tritone remains tritone (augmented becomes diminished and vice versa)

- the old and new intervals add up to nine

For example:

1. If you invert a major 3rd of C (that would be E) it becomes E with C on top, a minor 6th. Major becomes minor, and three plus six add up to nine.
2. If you invert minor 2nd it becomes major 7th. Minor becomes major and two plus seven add up to nine.

To really learn the intervals properly, you should sing them as part of your daily practice routine. You don't need guitar to do this (unless you're a singer), so you can practice in the shower, in the card etc.
In addition, practice singing along with your favorite records, melodies, solos etc. You have to train your ear like this because a good solo consists largely of playing on gutiar what you hear in your head.


This is for now, who wants more? smile.gif









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wrk
post Jun 10 2009, 05:27 PM
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Nice Ivan .. thank you for taking the time ! .... +1 for more cool.gif



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Stephane Lucarel...
post Jun 10 2009, 08:30 PM
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The last improvements are really excellent, good job Andy !

I've got another suggestion : what about adding a button with "I don't know!" (I can't find the right word in english rolleyes.gif !!!!!), after several attempts?



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wrk
post Jun 11 2009, 11:19 AM
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QUOTE (Stephane Lucarelli @ Jun 10 2009, 09:30 PM) *
The last improvements are really excellent, good job Andy !

I've got another suggestion : what about adding a button with "I don't know!" (I can't find the right word in english rolleyes.gif !!!!!), after several attempts?

Thank you Stephane .. that was another nice idea !! smile.gif
This button is integrated now and appears after 2 wrong attempts.




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Skalde
post Jun 12 2009, 06:22 PM
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In the new version the volume of the piano sounds are way to low compared to the guitar sounds.
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Kristofer Dahl
post Jun 12 2009, 08:58 PM
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Wow fantastic work Wrk! blink.gif The vintage feel created by the wood background is very nice as well.

Also I love the lives fixes you are doing - I wish we could do that at GMC as well..!


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wrk
post Jun 13 2009, 01:22 AM
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QUOTE (Skalde @ Jun 12 2009, 07:22 PM) *
In the new version the volume of the piano sounds are way to low compared to the guitar sounds.

Yes, thats true ... this needs to be adjusted.

The guitar and organs sounds are the first instruments i integrated.
I have added a lot of new instruments the last days. 15 instruments and 2 sets (Woodwinds section and string section). I am still searching for some good sounds for guitar (classic, clean, gain) and will replace them very soon. smile.gif

Once all the instruments are done, i will adjust the volume to each other.


QUOTE (Kristofer Dahl @ Jun 12 2009, 09:58 PM) *
Wow fantastic work Wrk! blink.gif The vintage feel created by the wood background is very nice as well.

Also I love the lives fixes you are doing - I wish we could do that at GMC as well..!

Thank you Kris .. glad you like it smile.gif
Modern style interface and vintage background is maybe a bit weird, but i liked it somehow .. laugh.gif

I'm really happy to get improvement ideas and integrate them direct if possible. It's so helpful to get input from others, especially about the content. smile.gif




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Skalde
post Jun 13 2009, 12:09 PM
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If you want to add a new feature: A statistic for the current session would be cool. You could see which intervalls work fine and which need more practice.
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Ivan Milenkovic
post Jun 13 2009, 12:20 PM
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This looks and sounds awesome! biggrin.gif

I just couldn't find an option for changing the volume for playing the intervals, that could be useful I guess! smile.gif


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wrk
post Jun 14 2009, 12:01 AM
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QUOTE (Skalde @ Jun 13 2009, 01:09 PM) *
If you want to add a new feature: A statistic for the current session would be cool. You could see which intervalls work fine and which need more practice.

Thank you Skalde, nice idea. This is definitely something i will add quite soon. To collect all the values is already integrated, but i have to figure out to display them nicely.

QUOTE (Ivan Milenkovic @ Jun 13 2009, 01:20 PM) *
This looks and sounds awesome! biggrin.gif

I just couldn't find an option for changing the volume for playing the intervals, that could be useful I guess! smile.gif

Thanks Ivan smile.gif
No, there is no option to adjust the volume by now. Idea was to have all the sounds on the same level and the overall volume can be change with the keyboard. As there is no audio played constantly or looped somewhere, i was thinking to adjust volume within the tool is not really needed. Now that you say it, it could maybe be useful as people work differently with software or websites.

This post has been edited by wrk: Jun 14 2009, 12:01 AM


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Ivan Milenkovic
post Jun 14 2009, 01:14 PM
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QUOTE (wrk @ Jun 14 2009, 01:01 AM) *
Thanks Ivan smile.gif
No, there is no option to adjust the volume by now. Idea was to have all the sounds on the same level and the overall volume can be change with the keyboard. As there is no audio played constantly or looped somewhere, i was thinking to adjust volume within the tool is not really needed. Now that you say it, it could maybe be useful as people work differently with software or websites.


Ok mate no problem! smile.gif It just occurred to me when I was playing the intervals, I was used to having some sort of a volume fader there. But I normally went to my volume knob on audio system so it's OK probably.


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wrk
post Jun 25 2009, 11:33 AM
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Hi,

I am close to finish two new learning tools and this time it will be about "Scales". A "Scale Ear Trainer" and a "Scale Formula Trainer". smile.gif

The "Scale Ear Trainer" is basically an extension of the interval/chords ear training tool. To identify scales, it is important to hear the interval steps from note to note or related to the root note. To give a scale the right name it would be handy to know the corresponding scale formula ... like 1-2-b3-4-5-b6-b7-8 for aeolian/nat. minor scale for example. I hope that makes sense and will be useful for some of you.

? Now i have a question how to group/categorize the huge amount of scales and though some of the theory gurus here at GMC could give me some suggestions.

I thought about 3 groups.

- Basic
--> Major
--> Minor
--> Major Pentatonic
--> Minor Pentatonic
--> Harmonic Minor
--> Melodic Minor
--> Chromatic

- Modes
--> Major scale modes (Ionian - Locrian)
--> Harmonic minor modes
--> Melodic minor modes

- Advanced/Exotic
--> all the other scales (maybe not all, but the important ones ..)

Would this makes sense like this or someone have another idea? Maybe, "Basics", "Advanced", "Exotic" .. ?

The "Ear Trainer" (www.musiclearningtools.net) uses 3 groups as well (Intervals, Triads, 7ths chords). I basically try to find something similar for scales.

Any help would be great .. Thanks !!!

smile.gif



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