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steve25
post Jul 17 2009, 05:42 PM
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When you decide to learn a song which includes both the rhythm and lead guitars how much do you actually go into learning everything? Do you just learn the riffs and solos so you can play along to it or do you like to analyse how it all works together, figure out what kind of scales they might have used and see how you could recreate something similar?

This post has been edited by steve25: Jul 17 2009, 05:57 PM
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Chokehold
post Jul 17 2009, 05:56 PM
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I haven't started with analyzing songs yet, so I just learn so that I can play along with them.

But I've been thinking about starting to analyze songs more. smile.gif


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Laszlo Boross
post Jul 17 2009, 06:57 PM
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I’m not analizing the songs, but it’s important to know the tone.
However it is easier to learn soloes if we know the basic-scale.And this needs also to the improvisation.


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Guitar1969
post Jul 17 2009, 07:10 PM
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QUOTE (Laszlo Boross @ Jul 17 2009, 10:57 AM) *
I'm not analizing the songs, but it's important to know the tone.
However it is easier to learn soloes if we know the basic-scale.And this needs also to the improvisation.



I usually just learn the basics in order to improvise - mainly because I lose interest in a song if I hear it too much and then don't have a desire to learn it anymore, but I think it depends on what you are learning it for. If you are the guitarist in a cover band, then I think your analysis would be much different than just learning for fun.

But I personally get frustrated too easily trying to learn a song, so I can't learn one through completion.


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Ivan Milenkovic
post Jul 17 2009, 09:44 PM
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Sometimes two much thinking on the theory part can mislead your creativity. When you compose it is best to keep it open minded and just record ideas. Later on you can analyze it and see if there are some weak spots that need adjustment. Of course, people are different and we all approach writing songs in different manner, often different methods depending on the mood, so there is no rule. Just make a song that sounds cool to you and enjoy it listening that is the main goal.


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Laszlo Boross
post Jul 17 2009, 09:56 PM
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QUOTE (Guitar1969 @ Jul 17 2009, 08:10 PM) *
I usually just learn the basics in order to improvise - mainly because I lose interest in a song if I hear it too much and then don't have a desire to learn it anymore, but I think it depends on what you are learning it for. If you are the guitarist in a cover band, then I think your analysis would be much different than just learning for fun.

But I personally get frustrated too easily trying to learn a song, so I can't learn one through completion.


I know the scales well , but I think the notes has to come from inside.
We often use alternate tuning in my band and I can’t use the scales that I know.
I have to play from inside. And this also sounds in our music.



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Keilnoth
post Jul 20 2009, 10:18 AM
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QUOTE (Guitar1969 @ Jul 17 2009, 08:10 PM) *
I usually just learn the basics in order to improvise - mainly because I lose interest in a song if I hear it too much and then don't have a desire to learn it anymore, but I think it depends on what you are learning it for. If you are the guitarist in a cover band, then I think your analysis would be much different than just learning for fun.

But I personally get frustrated too easily trying to learn a song, so I can't learn one through completion.


Think I have the exact same problem. I never fully learn songs because I can't stand playing it for days or weeks until I play them perfectly. It's just boring.

The problem is that, when somebody ask me : "Ok, play something then...". What should I play? I cannot play anything except some licks here and there, some exercices and that really sucks. So I am trying to learn easy songs. But it seems that I suck at playing easy songs as well. tongue.gif

I am probably much better at jamming. But it's been a long time I didn't jam.

Ah well, playing guitar is a constant fight against myself. tongue.gif


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superize
post Jul 20 2009, 10:54 AM
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I normally only learn the rythm part since it is easier for me to learn but sometimes i try to learn the leads aswell.....

But i never try to analyse thw songs


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Pedja Simovic
post Jul 20 2009, 02:42 PM
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It depends what period we are referring too really. When I started, I wanted to learn rhythm part and solo so I could play it. Then all I wanted to know is what scale I can use to solo like that! As I developed my ear technique and theory harmony knowledge I wanted to think outside of the box. In other words apply some things that were not already in the solo, do something unique and original that fits my style of playing - if that makes any sense smile.gif


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Alexiaden93
post Jul 20 2009, 03:19 PM
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I don't really analyse the songs, but using my ears, I find out which scale is used (so for Iron Maiden that would be E Minor / Aeolian) and then I can play along using minor pentatonic or aeolian... smile.gif Apart from that, I try learning only the lead parts, and where there is no particular lead, I play the rhythm ! smile.gif


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Ivan Zecic
post Jul 20 2009, 04:23 PM
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Sometimes I learn absolutely everything, all those little details that make that song so good, but lately I learn only chords... it depends biggrin.gif


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Alexiaden93
post Jul 20 2009, 07:16 PM
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QUOTE (Ivan Zecic @ Jul 20 2009, 04:23 PM) *
Sometimes I learn absolutely everything, all those little details that make that song so good, but lately I learn only chords... it depends biggrin.gif

Ivan, you don't need to learn songs, I think you compose your own songs better than most people / bands make songs ! I loved your Guitar Idol take, and the judges are pretty stupid not to have put you in with the live finalists ! biggrin.gif


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grathan
post Jul 20 2009, 08:41 PM
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QUOTE (steve25 @ Jul 17 2009, 11:42 AM) *
When you decide to learn a song which includes both the rhythm and lead guitars how much do you actually go into learning everything? Do you just learn the riffs and solos so you can play along to it or do you like to analyse how it all works together, figure out what kind of scales they might have used and see how you could recreate something similar?


I think this is a very neat idea. In fact I think this is how %99 of music on the radio is written these days. Not by directly copying, but remembering what other people did that sounded good and just changing it a little bit.
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Emir Hot
post Jul 20 2009, 09:19 PM
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QUOTE (grathan @ Jul 20 2009, 08:41 PM) *
I think this is a very neat idea. In fact I think this is how %99 of music on the radio is written these days. Not by directly copying, but remembering what other people did that sounded good and just changing it a little bit.


That's why I hate modern music smile.gif


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Bogdan Radovic
post Jul 20 2009, 10:26 PM
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Depends why I'm learning the song...If its just for live covers playing I don't do analyzing much...but If I get intrigued I would think about it more in-depth...


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Fran
post Jul 20 2009, 10:32 PM
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I usually learn the riffs & the solos if they are easy enough, to be able to play along. I love learning songs I like smile.gif

But I don't take the time to investigate how it was composed, I guess I still don't know ebnough theory anyway. Knowing the key & scale the song uses is enough for me so far.


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Ivan Zecic
post Jul 21 2009, 01:35 AM
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QUOTE (Alexiaden93 @ Jul 20 2009, 08:16 PM) *
Ivan, you don't need to learn songs, I think you compose your own songs better than most people / bands make songs ! I loved your Guitar Idol take, and the judges are pretty stupid not to have put you in with the live finalists ! biggrin.gif


Thanks a lot man!

Well, I didn't make it to the finals, but I was pretty close, 5th place in the best of the rest list, and that's still something. I have to say I'm pretty satisfied rolleyes.gif

Well, those songs came from my heart. 99% percent of the music you hear today, especially on the radio and tv is made for commercial use, just to sell as much as possible, which reduces the quality of course. I was also forced to shred a bit more in those songs than I usually like, basically because of the judges and the audience, who obviously still prefer technique over music. I've heard some amazing music there, but it didn't get to the finals because it wasn't attractive enough.

But let's get back to songwriting. To be honest, I haven't learned a lot of songs (and that's something I'm definitely not proud of), but what helped my songwriting was listening to music. I didn't have to learn all the riffs I've heard, I just had to listen and figure out how it all was arranged. And when I was recording/writing, I didn't really think like now I have to do chorus, now verse etc. But I rather listened to what I wrote over and over again until I actually felt something that should come after that. It was just a matter of inspiration! But listening to music is going to widen your horizons, thus make your inspiration come much easier, which is, I guess, the most important thing in songwriting...


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