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> Alternative Vs Economy
Muris Varajic
post Jul 25 2009, 02:49 AM
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QUOTE (Jenbu @ Jul 24 2009, 11:10 PM) *
well I use alternate picking but, when im playing fast and I need to jump over a string (for instance from A to G) I find it most comfortable with economy picking. But still that is hard too dry.gif Should I use alternate picking when jumping over strings?

For instance when im playing the intro to sweet child o mine I find it hard to play it with alternate picking. Well I learned the intro before I learned alternate picking so that could be a reason.


Thing is, you should be able to use both alternate and economy. smile.gif


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lcsdds
post Jul 25 2009, 05:00 AM
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QUOTE (Muris Varajic @ Jul 25 2009, 02:49 AM) *
Thing is, you should be able to use both alternate and economy. smile.gif

Muris.....what do you use economy for? I just have a hard time seeing anything you would use it for.....especially with your AP chops....don't see a need. The only think I use it for now is legato licks and just straight sweep picking. I know you had an economy lick in your Phrygian advanced lesson but it seemed to me that you did it just because you could.... tongue.gif laugh.gif I know you could play that lick using AP. Just curious what you use it for.
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Muris Varajic
post Jul 25 2009, 07:35 AM
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I use it....when I use it. laugh.gif


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Oxac
post Jul 25 2009, 08:34 AM
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@ Zeyth. You need to be critical of your sources. You've had several people telling you their opinion and why that lick won't work where 2 of them posts great lessons on this site on this very topic. Still you favour the unknown guy with the internet page. Sure, he played fast in the youtube video but where is his phrasing, tone and timing?

Have you tried played string skipping arpeggios with economy?


E|-13-9-----------------9--13-9--------11-16--------|-18-13----------------13-----------------------|
B|-------------------------------------------------------|-----------------------------------------------|
G|-------13-10----10-13----------13-10------17-13-|-------18-13----13-18----13-10----13-----------|
D|-------------11---------------------------------------|--------------15-------------------11-------11-----|
A|-------------------------------------------------------|-----------------------------------------11--------|
E|--------------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------------------9---|


E|-----6---------|
B|-----4---------|
G|-----5---------|
D|-----3---------|
A|-----4---------|
E|----------------|



This post has been edited by Oxac: Jul 25 2009, 08:35 AM


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Emir Hot
post Jul 25 2009, 10:44 PM
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QUOTE (Sami @ Jul 24 2009, 11:02 PM) *
I'm sorry to be totally off topic, but i read this whole topic and i would just like to say Emirs posts are hilarious haha
you really made my day mate biggrin.gif


Hehehe, glad I made your day but don't really know what was that much hilarious smile.gif


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Caelumamittendum
post Jul 26 2009, 12:04 PM
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7-zD2IQYTw - A very nice video by Rick Graham about economy.

Here's a question for all you definers of economy picking:

Would you say there's a difference between playing with economy picking and playing with economy of motion.

The pre-mentioned 3 note per string lick by Emir could possible me played with less motion than used in alternate picking it (I must admit I haven't really checked it out, but I'll do so in a minute). I'm sure it would be awkward as hell though.

CODE
Alternate picking:

     |-3-| |-3-| |--3-| |--3-| |--3--| |--3--|  
     S S S S S S S S  S S S  S S  S  S S  S  S  
E||--------5-7-8--------7-8-10---------8-10-12-||
B||--5-6-8-------7-8-10--------8-10-12---------||
G||--------------------------------------------||
D||--------------------------------------------||
A||--------------------------------------------||
E||--------------------------------------------||
     d u d u d u d u d  u d  u d u  d  u  d  u
           w     w      w      w       w          = 5 wasted units of energy


Economy for 1/4 note's value then alternate

     |-3-| |-3-| |--3-| |--3-| |--3--| |--3--|  
     S S S S S S S S  S S S  S S  S  S S  S  S  
E||--------5-7-8--------7-8-10---------8-10-12-||
B||--5-6-8-------7-8-10--------8-10-12---------||
G||--------------------------------------------||
D||--------------------------------------------||
A||--------------------------------------------||
E||--------------------------------------------||
     d u d d u d u d u  d u d  u d   u d  u d
                 w      w      w       w          = 4 wasted units of energy


Economy of motion:

     |-3-| |-3-| |--3-| |--3-| |--3--| |--3--|  
     S S S S S S S S  S S S  S S  S  S S  S  S  
E||--------5-7-8--------7-8-10---------8-10-12-||
B||--5-6-8-------7-8-10--------8-10-12---------||
G||--------------------------------------------||
D||--------------------------------------------||
A||--------------------------------------------||
E||--------------------------------------------||
     d u d d u d d u d  d u d  d u  d  d u  d
                dw            dw                  = 4 wasted units of energy (double wastex2)

Wasted unit = moving across a string without playing it.


If you have any other ways of picking it (not legatoing or hammering on), feel free to add further to the above.

Now I am not saying the two lower ones are the better ones, because I think for many they will feel more awkward, so just consider it a general analysis of wasted motion and do with it what you want wink.gif



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Emir Hot
post Jul 26 2009, 12:07 PM
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QUOTE (Caelumamittendum @ Jul 26 2009, 12:04 PM) *
If you have any other ways of picking it (not legatoing or hammering on), feel free to add further to the above.

Now I am not saying the two lower ones are the better ones, because I think for many they will feel more awkward, so just consider it a general analysis of wasted motion and do with it what you want wink.gif


Now try that in 16th triplets and 160bpm. No way economy picking would work there


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Caelumamittendum
post Jul 26 2009, 12:12 PM
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QUOTE (Emir Hot @ Jul 26 2009, 01:07 PM) *
Now try that in 16th triplets and 160bpm. No way economy picking would work there


Haha, no one in their sane mind would do that, but it does have less motion, so anyone with enough time on their hands and willingness to incorporate strange picking patterns in their playing, could probably get it right at some point. I for one can't, as I too would use alternate picking for this. It was just the more...scientific approach to this topic.

That, of course, only in consideration to wanting the fastest speed, not ones taste of sound.

This post has been edited by Caelumamittendum: Jul 26 2009, 12:14 PM


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Oxac
post Jul 26 2009, 01:04 PM
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I think the guy missed that 2 downstrokes in a row require a motion twice the speed of 1 down 1 up.


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