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> How Well Did Jimmy Paige Know Theory?, or the other members?
iamblackmo
post Sep 8 2009, 02:40 AM
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I listed to Zeppelin and I find a complex and wide depth of feel and culture.

How well did any of the members know composition and or theory?
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Emir Hot
post Sep 8 2009, 03:16 AM
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QUOTE (iamblackmo @ Sep 8 2009, 02:40 AM) *
I listed to Zeppelin and I find a complex and wide depth of feel and culture.

How well did any of the members know composition and or theory?

Only John Paul Jones knew it smile.gif Other guys' job was just to rock but they were the best in the world for it smile.gif


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ZakkWylde
post Sep 8 2009, 11:09 AM
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Yep John Paul Jones has the biggest musical knowledge being a piano, bass, mandolin and several other instruments-player. I don't think Jimmy Paige knows more than his pentatonic and a few chords...


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post Sep 8 2009, 11:59 AM
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QUOTE (ZakkWylde @ Sep 8 2009, 12:09 PM) *
I don't think Jimmy Paige knows more than his pentatonic and a few chords...


Probably biggrin.gif But he did his job very well, especially about writing the riffs.


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Ivan Milenkovic
post Sep 8 2009, 01:01 PM
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QUOTE (ZakkWylde @ Sep 8 2009, 12:09 PM) *
I don't think Jimmy Paige knows more than his pentatonic and a few chords...


I would say I don't know if Jimmy Page knew...


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Sensible Jones
post Sep 8 2009, 01:17 PM
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Jimmy is actually quite well-versed in parts of music theory. Especially within the realms of altered tunings.
I can say this with authority as I knew his Guitar Tech!
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Fingerspasm
post Sep 8 2009, 01:42 PM
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There is a movie coming out this month or next month called It Might Get Loud. Its an in depth interview with Jack White, Jimmy Page and The Edge. I am sure this movie will have some insight on this subject. I am looking forward to being able to see the movie. If you google It Might Get Loud you will see some good Trailers for the Movie


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jafomatic
post Sep 8 2009, 02:18 PM
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Page was a session guy for many years. I dunno if you can do that and still be a pentatonic hero, or a "let's jam on 5" kinda guy, y'know?

I heard this from Lynch: "You know how the most incredible guys didn't know music? It's lies. Hendrix knew his theory."

Lynch could be wrong, at least in some cases. I know B.B. King insists that he doesn't know anything, for example.


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JVM
post Sep 8 2009, 03:59 PM
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I think because of the way that theory can be .. confusing and like a bunch of unconnected dots to people who haven't studied it enough to make sense of things, they could well know more than they're letting on, like knowing their chords really well or having ideas about how they play that, even if they don't know it, really are explained by theory.

Jaf, I agree that being a session musician must teach you a lot of stuff, at least the basics even if you don't delve in to studying it. Of course, some people just have great ears. My dad doesn't know a single scale but he knows his chords really well, and therefore his intervals too, and always knows what key to play in even in a pick up jam.


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jafomatic
post Sep 8 2009, 04:06 PM
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QUOTE (JVM @ Sep 8 2009, 09:59 AM) *
Jaf, I agree that being a session musician must teach you a lot of stuff, at least the basics even if you don't delve in to studying it. Of course, some people just have great ears. My dad doesn't know a single scale but he knows his chords really well, and therefore his intervals too, and always knows what key to play in even in a pick up jam.


I was thinking this in the other direction: you won't LAST long as a session guy if you can't keep up with whatever arrives in the studio that day. Anyway, George Lynch could have been wrong. He was willing to say what I quoted on TV and he was willing admit some things he wasn't able to do very well (there was a discussion about sweep picking and some youtube jokes) so it definitely seemed honest and credible.

Just thinking maybe we don't really know one way or the other without asking a guy. How would you ask Jimmy Page if he really knows music?


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JVM
post Sep 8 2009, 04:08 PM
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QUOTE (jafomatic @ Sep 8 2009, 11:06 AM) *
I was thinking this in the other direction: you won't LAST long as a session guy if you can't keep up with whatever arrives in the studio that day. Anyway, George Lynch could have been wrong. He was willing to say what I quoted on TV and he was willing admit some things he wasn't able to do very well (there was a discussion about sweep picking and some youtube jokes) so it definitely seemed honest and credible.

Just thinking maybe we don't really know one way or the other without asking a guy. How would you ask Jimmy Page if he really knows music?


Good points, I guess I was saying that if you know enough to get hired as a session guy and keep the job, you're still bound to learn a lot. I think I saw the George Lynch thing. Either way I did see him jam with Dave Navarro and they talked about a similar subject, that was an interesting video.


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jafomatic
post Sep 8 2009, 04:11 PM
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QUOTE (JVM @ Sep 8 2009, 10:08 AM) *
Good points, I guess I was saying that if you know enough to get hired as a session guy and keep the job, you're still bound to learn a lot. I think I saw the George Lynch thing. Either way I did see him jam with Dave Navarro and they talked about a similar subject, that was an interesting video.


That's the one I saw smile.gif

I really didn't like Navarro until he earned some points in that very same episode, talking about being unable to sweep and "staying up late trying to learn it from youtube videos" and laughing at himself.

Maybe we can find interviews with Page. The wikipedia talks about his session work but no schooling in music is mentioned.



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JVM
post Sep 8 2009, 04:38 PM
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QUOTE (jafomatic @ Sep 8 2009, 11:11 AM) *
That's the one I saw smile.gif

I really didn't like Navarro until he earned some points in that very same episode, talking about being unable to sweep and "staying up late trying to learn it from youtube videos" and laughing at himself.

Maybe we can find interviews with Page. The wikipedia talks about his session work but no schooling in music is mentioned.


I still don't like him, but I love his guitar playing biggrin.gif

Here's a question:

We all learn at our own pace here at GMC (unless we're set up in the MTP) and we only get out what we put in. Are we still self taught? We're not formally instructed I think, at least, not any instruction that a music university would recognize.


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Sensible Jones
post Sep 8 2009, 04:51 PM
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QUOTE (jafomatic @ Sep 8 2009, 04:06 PM) *
How would you ask Jimmy Page if he really knows music?

Do what I did. Firstly, live in the Village where he bought his Studio. Next get a job at age 18 working in a Pub just down the Road from his Studio. Then, wait until he's recording the first 'Firm' album with Jason Bonham, Tony Franklin and John Miles and then ask him one Lunchtime whilst they are enjoying a couple of Beers in an otherwise empty Bar.
Once you've done this (and played Pool with Tony and Jason and beaten them!!!) and not treated them as if they're not human then you can ask them anything you like. Especially when you get invited to go to the Studio and watch things happening!
After all of this befriend his Guitar Tech and stay friends with him for at least 20 years until he dies 2 years ago!!
Simple!!!
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Emir Hot
post Sep 8 2009, 04:54 PM
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Jimmy didn't need to know any theory. He is for me no.1 player of all times, maybe even bigger face than Hendrix (which also didn't know any theory). Jimmy plays and composes what sounds good to him. Of course it is good if you know some theory but it worked for him without it. He surely does know which scale to play over which chord but might not know to name that scale. His solos are mainly based on licks but his rhythm structure and chords in different tunings sound like a true art. My ex. jazz teacher Shaun Baxter (maybe one of the best in the world) interviewed Van Halen for some guitar magazine. He told us that Halen doesn't have a clue of what he is playing. For Jimmy it doesn't surprise me but for Mr. Halen it does. All his notes are just what he hears, no way he could tell you which scale, which box etc... The thing here is that you can still play good without any theory but knowing it will only do you even better.


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sted
post Sep 8 2009, 07:05 PM
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QUOTE (Sensible Jones @ Sep 8 2009, 04:51 PM) *
Do what I did. Firstly, live in the Village where he bought his Studio. Next get a job at age 18 working in a Pub just down the Road from his Studio. Then, wait until he's recording the first 'Firm' album with Jason Bonham, Tony Franklin and John Miles and then ask him one Lunchtime whilst they are enjoying a couple of Beers in an otherwise empty Bar.
Once you've done this (and played Pool with Tony and Jason and beaten them!!!) and not treated them as if they're not human then you can ask them anything you like. Especially when you get invited to go to the Studio and watch things happening!
After all of this befriend his Guitar Tech and stay friends with him for at least 20 years until he dies 2 years ago!!
Simple!!!
biggrin.gif


wow! how rock'n'roll is that mate?!? does make you sound like a bit of a stalker though laugh.gif!
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Sensible Jones
post Sep 8 2009, 07:44 PM
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QUOTE (sted @ Sep 8 2009, 07:05 PM) *
wow! how rock'n'roll is that mate?!? does make you sound like a bit of a stalker though laugh.gif!

When you put it like that.....
laugh.gif laugh.gif



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Bogdan Radovic
post Sep 8 2009, 08:01 PM
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QUOTE (JVM @ Sep 8 2009, 05:38 PM) *
I still don't like him, but I love his guitar playing biggrin.gif

Here's a question:

We all learn at our own pace here at GMC (unless we're set up in the MTP) and we only get out what we put in. Are we still self taught? We're not formally instructed I think, at least, not any instruction that a music university would recognize.


Hmm I guess this is hard to define. Are you still self taught if you took some lessons from private teacher? If not then I don't think you are completely self taught using GMC or some other online forms of learning too. (because its very similar or even better then real teacher). Technology really progressed a lot so you can learn from home lots of things you couldn't in past. There are colleges that offer online learning (regular schools, not music ones). They all work pretty much the same as GMC, collaborations , forum , lessons , assignments etc. Once you finish exams at that online school you get a diploma even though you learned at your own pace from home (self taught?). Formal education (recognized diploma is something else and I'm sure its in the future of GMC).

These are just some of my mumblings on the subject smile.gif ehehhe

This post has been edited by Bogdan Radovic: Sep 8 2009, 08:02 PM


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Santiago Diaz Ga...
post Sep 9 2009, 02:55 AM
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I think that they were in the right situation, in the right time, doing the right thing to succeed. I think if Zep would be a band in these times, they wouldn't succeed. Just because of the fact that music has become once again into something really complex, like baroque times. (And, in my opinion, even more complex).


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Gary
post Sep 9 2009, 04:21 AM
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Hmmm.. I grew up with Zep and I believe that if they were starting out today they would be popular.. here’s why.

Throughout the seventies they were the kings of heavy rock. Not because they were masters of complexity but because they wrote catchy hard rock songs, with a variety of sounds (Physical Graffiti as an example) and they possessed tremendous stage presence. Say what you want about Page.. but he was a creative guy. During the time there were plenty of guitar players with better technical skills (lets see.. Ritchie Blackmore, Steve Howe and Jeff Beck come to mind) however these guys never achieved the level of success that Zeppelin did. Look at U2 now.. is the Edge really that technical of a player? or how about Lady Gaga for that matter laugh.gif

That said I just watched a Jeff Beck concert on the Palladia channel that was taped in London in 2007.. That dude is a true guitar god.
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