1 0

 
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> Learning Intervals And Harmony
lcsdds
post Sep 18 2009, 03:08 AM
Post #1


Learning Tone Seeker
*

Group: Members
Posts: 2.054
Joined: 2-September 08
Member No.: 5.825



Pedja.....how would you reccomend I go about memorizing harmony, intervals etc. I want to be able to just spout stuff off without having to think to much about it. I just want to KNOW IT!!!

You said something in a post the other day that struck home to me. You said....."you need to memorize theory so you can forget about it and just be creative".....or something to that effect. I probably have the equivalent of 2 hours everyday at work......in between patients and at lunch that I can devote to just studying/memorizing theory. The problem is that I feel there is so much info that I need a plan. My goal for this last year was to really work on my technique and I feel I have made some good progress. Next year my goal is to really focus on composing and I feel that to do this I really need to be able to know my theory without having to think about it. I can figure stuff out but it is too cumbersome and it kills the creative process when I have to sit and think too much.....not to mention it hurts my head...... laugh.gif laugh.gif

I'll do whatever you tell me too if you could lay out a little plan for me to conquer this beast over the next year or so..... smile.gif

Thanks Pedja..... smile.gif \m/\m/
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Ivan Milenkovic
post Sep 18 2009, 09:22 AM
Post #2


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 25.396
Joined: 20-November 07
From: Belgrade, Serbia
Member No.: 3.341



Just want to make couple of suggestions, before Pedja starts with his detailed explanation:

- Check out interval theory here and here
- Check out ear training form them here

This post has been edited by Ivan Milenkovic: Sep 18 2009, 09:23 AM


--------------------
- Ivan's Video Chat Lesson Notes HERE
- Check out my GMC Profile and Lessons
- (Please subscribe to my) YouTube Official Channel
- Let's be connected through ! Facebook! :)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Frederik
post Sep 18 2009, 09:32 AM
Post #3


Learning Tone Seeker
*

Group: Members
Posts: 616
Joined: 30-January 09
From: Aalborg, Denmark
Member No.: 6.696



I want to do the exact same thing, its just a lot of work.. guees some day it will stick smile.gif
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Pedja Simovic
post Sep 18 2009, 08:09 PM
Post #4


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 8.109
Joined: 13-September 08
From: Nis, Serbia
Member No.: 5.892



QUOTE (lcsdds @ Sep 18 2009, 04:08 AM) *
Pedja.....how would you reccomend I go about memorizing harmony, intervals etc. I want to be able to just spout stuff off without having to think to much about it. I just want to KNOW IT!!!

You said something in a post the other day that struck home to me. You said....."you need to memorize theory so you can forget about it and just be creative".....or something to that effect. I probably have the equivalent of 2 hours everyday at work......in between patients and at lunch that I can devote to just studying/memorizing theory. The problem is that I feel there is so much info that I need a plan. My goal for this last year was to really work on my technique and I feel I have made some good progress. Next year my goal is to really focus on composing and I feel that to do this I really need to be able to know my theory without having to think about it. I can figure stuff out but it is too cumbersome and it kills the creative process when I have to sit and think too much.....not to mention it hurts my head...... laugh.gif laugh.gif

I'll do whatever you tell me too if you could lay out a little plan for me to conquer this beast over the next year or so..... smile.gif

Thanks Pedja..... smile.gif \m/\m/



Monte my friend,

As always I like the way you are approaching your goals. Thinking things through and trying to find best way to reach your target. Your questions are very specific so I will try in this post to answer what I recommend for everything.

- Learn everything about intervals up until one octave!
You need to know structure of the intervals, know in which major scale modes which scale degree is characteristic, what is characteristic interval of specific mode. You also need to learn how to hear these intervals in your head and that requires Ear Training (which I will get to later). Another very important aspect is to learn to play all these intervals and shapes of them all over guitar neck. For something to hear and your ear to remember, you have to play. For something for your ear to remember, you have to listen to what you play, identify it and sing it (with and without instrument).
Eventually this whole process will lead into relative pitch where you will be able to sing any interval from any pitch. It could also enable to have some fixed and stable note in your head which you can use to relate to other notes.
Final suggestion is study for time being my interval lesson series. You can find all lessons for them HERE. As time goes by, I will add lessons on my ear training part of board which will enable you to improve your ear and relative pitch.

- Read all the theory and harmony posts on my board!
Already there is couple of very useful posts on my theory and harmony board. By reading through them and memorizing formulas, cadences, relationship between the notes, reharmonizing ideas, you are making your brain think about these possibilities. I am firm believer that for something to work best, you have to make it as practical as possible. In other words, best way to learn all theory and harmony is through assignments (like the ones I am giving to my MTP students) as they make you use all the things you read in real music examples. If you are able to relate each thing you read and learned on paper, into some real piece of music, example and assignment, then your brain memory locks it deep and its there for good. This is why theory and harmony for me is like you say instant. I just know it really well because I spent countless hours days weeks months reading learning analyzing and creating challenges how to get full grasp of it. It just eventually becomes automatic but you have to go through the certain process. Process is reading + useful assignments to make sure you got it all.
Final suggestion for this one is to read all theory and harmony posts on my board. Also, browse through my MTP part of forum and check out things I assigned there to some members. You will already see short tests (quizes) I posted - try to do them all! If you are done with everything, come back to this board and feel free to write your experience from everything.
I will as frequent as possible update this board with new theory and harmony posts. I will also work individually with my MTP students on very specific theory and harmony things (like with Ben I am working on Reharmonization techniques, Matt has covered all the posts in the theory and harmony board, Roman is about to do so, Marc Maiden and Tiago Paiva are working on harmony analysis of Blue Bossa with soloing applications etc). So you see, everything comes alive here, we just have to have a specific goal. I am very happy to see you have defined yours and I hope on this and my other boards you will reach it just like the other guys.


Hope this response was useful to you Monte.
Keep in touch!

Pedja


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
lcsdds
post Sep 18 2009, 08:32 PM
Post #5


Learning Tone Seeker
*

Group: Members
Posts: 2.054
Joined: 2-September 08
Member No.: 5.825



Great response as always Pedja......Thanks.


I have started so far by going to Andy's MusicLearningTools.net sit and just drilling the keys, intervals and scale formulas and I am still studying your cadences post. These have helped.

I am going to add in an "interval shapes" section into my practice routine. I am also really trying to get down all my 7th arpeggio shapes so I can easily switch between then in any key.

Yesterday I learned an interesting thing when I was tabbing out some tapping arpeggios. I learned that if I am in say "A Ionian" and I want to know which 7th chords in that scale contain "A" that all I have to do is go up one degree in the scale.....to B in this case......spell out the 7th chord from this degree.......Bm7 (B-D-F#-A) and that tells me the four roots in the Scale of A Ionian that contain A. So in this case it would be Bm7, Dmaj7, F#m7 and Amaj7. It also tells me which inversions I can use. Starting from B you just count backwards. So Bm7 (3rd inversion), Dmaj7 (2nd inversion), F#min7 (1st inversion) and Amaj7 (Root).

So if I am on the low E string with my index finger on the fifth fret.......A........then I have 4 different arpeggios I can play that contain A.....

I know you know this but it is new to me and every little trick helps.... smile.gif

Thanks for the help Pedja and I'll be checking back with more questions and updates.


\m/\m/
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Pedja Simovic
post Sep 18 2009, 08:38 PM
Post #6


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 8.109
Joined: 13-September 08
From: Nis, Serbia
Member No.: 5.892



QUOTE (lcsdds @ Sep 18 2009, 09:32 PM) *
Great response as always Pedja......Thanks.


I have started so far by going to Andy's MusicLearningTools.net sit and just drilling the keys, intervals and scale formulas and I am still studying your cadences post. These have helped.

I am going to add in an "interval shapes" section into my practice routine. I am also really trying to get down all my 7th arpeggio shapes so I can easily switch between then in any key.

Yesterday I learned an interesting thing when I was tabbing out some tapping arpeggios. I learned that if I am in say "A Ionian" and I want to know which 7th chords in that scale contain "A" that all I have to do is go up one degree in the scale.....to B in this case......spell out the 7th chord from this degree.......Bm7 (B-D-F#-A) and that tells me the four roots in the Scale of A Ionian that contain A. So in this case it would be Bm7, Dmaj7, F#m7 and Amaj7. It also tells me which inversions I can use. Starting from B you just count backwards. So Bm7 (3rd inversion), Dmaj7 (2nd inversion), F#min7 (1st inversion) and Amaj7 (Root).

So if I am on the low E string with my index finger on the fifth fret.......A........then I have 4 different arpeggios I can play that contain A.....

I know you know this but it is new to me and every little trick helps.... smile.gif

Thanks for the help Pedja and I'll be checking back with more questions and updates.


\m/\m/


Awesome stuff Monte. I am very happy to hear you are discovering new things on fretboard. I love that system with common note. Sometimes when I am jamming I would just take one note and reharmonize it as much as possible. Melody static, harmony active. Very cool and interesting approach. You did the same somewhat but while studying arpeggios, great work.

If you need song examples for each of the intervals I can provide them for you. The thing is, I would like to demonstrate this in video and show you how I sing them and what I find useful. Just typing that sort of work doesn't help much.
I just came back from Belgrade and got a flu last night. I won't be recording ear training video tomorrow but if I get better I will try to do one before Monday! That should help to get your started with intervals wink.gif

Thanks Monte,

Pedja


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
lcsdds
post Sep 18 2009, 09:09 PM
Post #7


Learning Tone Seeker
*

Group: Members
Posts: 2.054
Joined: 2-September 08
Member No.: 5.825



Thanks Pedja.

I have an immediate goal right now of learning the four 7th arpeggios found in diatonic harmony.....Maj7, min7, Dom7, and min7b5. I am going to learn all four inversions of each type and then practice just what you said......Stay on same note and practice reharmonizing from one note. Then try and relate the reharminizations to each specific mode.

Any suggestions????

I spent the last couple of days tabbing out the arpeggios using conventional sweep picking and also some tapping using string skipping......more options. smile.gif
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Pedja Simovic
post Sep 18 2009, 09:48 PM
Post #8


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 8.109
Joined: 13-September 08
From: Nis, Serbia
Member No.: 5.892



QUOTE (lcsdds @ Sep 18 2009, 10:09 PM) *
Thanks Pedja.

I have an immediate goal right now of learning the four 7th arpeggios found in diatonic harmony.....Maj7, min7, Dom7, and min7b5. I am going to learn all four inversions of each type and then practice just what you said......Stay on same note and practice reharmonizing from one note. Then try and relate the reharminizations to each specific mode.

Any suggestions????

I spent the last couple of days tabbing out the arpeggios using conventional sweep picking and also some tapping using string skipping......more options. smile.gif


Sure thing Monte,

I would suggest practicing arpeggios in some cycles to keep it fun, interesting and useful. You might want to pick conventional cycles like cycle 5 and cycle 4 and practice each arpeggio shape and inversion through them. Then you can vary things in start with C maj7 use Cycle 4 to F but do Dom 7 then Bb maj 7 then Eb7 then Ab maj7. This is cool because each dominant 7 arpeggio sets up new I major 7 arpeggio or new key. So in a way, without knowing, you are actually practicing prepared modulation (V to I or secondary dominant chord into some diatonic chord). Very cool approach.
I would also suggest learning arpeggios horizontaly and vertically. Try positional playing using CAGED system shapes but also use 2 note per string system! This system gives you more freedom to move around the whole guitar neck plus every other string you do the exact same fingering and distance.
I actually did lesson on this system which you may find very useful as a guide to what I am referring to here.

Lesson name is Arpeggio study in Bb major. Check it out HERE

Let me know if I can help in any other way. I could perhaps do a video for you to show you how I practice these arpeggios and embed it from Youtube here. I am about to do customized lesson on that this weekend anyway. I can create a short expect from it or record double thing for you.

Pedja


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
lcsdds
post Sep 18 2009, 09:59 PM
Post #9


Learning Tone Seeker
*

Group: Members
Posts: 2.054
Joined: 2-September 08
Member No.: 5.825



Video would be great Pedja. Right now I am just using some four string shapes and using them starting on the low E and A strings. The tapping and sweep shapes work well this way. I know my 2 string shapes already pretty well. I would like to see what you are talking about with the cycle 4 and 5. Could you lay out the exact progression starting from Cmaj7 that I would use. I'm kind of confused on this........ sad.gif

Thanks Pedja..... smile.gif
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Pedja Simovic
post Sep 18 2009, 10:08 PM
Post #10


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 8.109
Joined: 13-September 08
From: Nis, Serbia
Member No.: 5.892



QUOTE (lcsdds @ Sep 18 2009, 10:59 PM) *
Video would be great Pedja. Right now I am just using some four string shapes and using them starting on the low E and A strings. The tapping and sweep shapes work well this way. I know my 2 string shapes already pretty well. I would like to see what you are talking about with the cycle 4 and 5. Could you lay out the exact progression starting from Cmaj7 that I would use. I'm kind of confused on this........ sad.gif

Thanks Pedja..... smile.gif


Ok Monte, I will do that in next couple of days. I am down with the flu and have 2 customized video lessons to do on weekend. As soon as I get some rest will do that.

Here is the chord progression starting from C using cycle 4 : C maj7 F7 Bbmaj7 Eb7 Abmaj7 Db7 Gbmaj7 Cb7(B7) Fbmaj7 (E maj7) A7 Dmaj7 G7 back to Cmaj7. This is all using 12 note chromatic system. If you want to keep it diatonic and stay withing key of C major, you would get this : C maj7, F maj7, B min7b5, E min7, A min7, D min7, G7 to C maj7. We used cycle 4 here and went through only notes that exist in C major scale.

You can apply the same principle for cycle 5 where you would get C G D A E B F# C# Ab Eb Bb F and then back to C. Using diatonic cycle 5 in key of C major you would get C maj7 G7 D min7 A min7 E min7 Bmin7b5 F maj7 and C maj7.

Remember this is just demonstration of cycles 4 and 5. You can do other cycles (2 3 or 6 and 7) smile.gif

It is up to you if you want to practice it all diatonic or mix it up with 12 tone system. I would personally first get diatonic down because it will lock the soloing sound and cycles in your ears better. After you are done with that you can start messing with random arpeggio patterns. I named you one (Maj7 followed by Dom7 in cycle 5) . Who is to say you can't use some other combination? What about doing first arpeggio root, 2nd arpeggio 1st inversion etc?
These are all great and cool ideas you could use to spice up your arpeggio practice routine.

Hope that helps !

Pedja


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
lcsdds
post Sep 18 2009, 10:26 PM
Post #11


Learning Tone Seeker
*

Group: Members
Posts: 2.054
Joined: 2-September 08
Member No.: 5.825



Gotcha Pedja!!! Thanks and this will for sure make my arpeggio practice much more useful and fun. Hope you feel better man......\m/\m/
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Pedja Simovic
post Sep 18 2009, 10:33 PM
Post #12


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 8.109
Joined: 13-September 08
From: Nis, Serbia
Member No.: 5.892



QUOTE (lcsdds @ Sep 18 2009, 11:26 PM) *
Gotcha Pedja!!! Thanks and this will for sure make my arpeggio practice much more useful and fun. Hope you feel better man......\m/\m/


Awesome Monte!
Glad I could help with immediate goal man.
Its my 4th tea and drank 2 liters of lemonade, still no significant improvement. I hope good sleep tonight will get me back in the shape wink.gif


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Neurologi
post Sep 21 2009, 08:22 PM
Post #13


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 370
Joined: 28-August 09
From: Vaasa, Finland
Member No.: 7.566



QUOTE (lcsdds @ Sep 18 2009, 11:09 PM) *
I spent the last couple of days tabbing out the arpeggios using conventional sweep picking and also some tapping using string skipping......more options. smile.gif


Is there a possibility you could post them in here? It would be very helpful to me to get an idea of the possibilities as I am only now looking at the technique of sweeping. Food for the fingers. Food for the soul.

Cheers.


--------------------
My gear? Mesa Boogie Triaxis - TC Electronic G-Major - Marshall 9200 Dual MonoBloc (2x100W) - Fender Roc Pro 4x12 (300W) + a whole lot more!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
lcsdds
post Sep 21 2009, 08:30 PM
Post #14


Learning Tone Seeker
*

Group: Members
Posts: 2.054
Joined: 2-September 08
Member No.: 5.825



QUOTE (Neurologi @ Sep 21 2009, 08:22 PM) *
Is there a possibility you could post them in here? It would be very helpful to me to get an idea of the possibilities as I am only now looking at the technique of sweeping. Food for the fingers. Food for the soul.

Cheers.

Have fun with these. They are all in the Key of A major and I tabbed the Root and all 3 inversions for every degree of the scale.

Here is a vid of me playing a couple of the root position arpeggios using these shapes......I think they start at about 1:17..... smile.gif


Attached File(s)
Attached File  Tapping_7th_Arps.gp5 ( 11.93K ) Number of downloads: 49
 
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Neurologi
post Sep 21 2009, 08:53 PM
Post #15


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 370
Joined: 28-August 09
From: Vaasa, Finland
Member No.: 7.566



QUOTE (lcsdds @ Sep 21 2009, 10:30 PM) *
Have fun with these. They are all in the Key of A major and I tabbed the Root and all 3 inversions for every degree of the scale.


That is a bucketload of awesome right there! A lot of work went into that. I am very grateful. Pretty sure I know what I will be making a hack attempt at tomorrow?! wink.gif


--------------------
My gear? Mesa Boogie Triaxis - TC Electronic G-Major - Marshall 9200 Dual MonoBloc (2x100W) - Fender Roc Pro 4x12 (300W) + a whole lot more!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
lcsdds
post Sep 21 2009, 08:59 PM
Post #16


Learning Tone Seeker
*

Group: Members
Posts: 2.054
Joined: 2-September 08
Member No.: 5.825



QUOTE (Neurologi @ Sep 21 2009, 08:53 PM) *
That is a bucketload of awesome right there! A lot of work went into that. I am very grateful. Pretty sure I know what I will be making a hack attempt at tomorrow?! wink.gif

At the bottom of the page I grouped them by type.......Maj7, min7, Dom7 and min7b5. That way it is easier to see them as root and 1st, 2nd, and 3rd inversions.

I was only familiar with the root shapes so I sat down and figured out the others and I am slowly learning them.....that way between the sweeping shapes I know and the tapping shapes I have 32 different options to play 7th chords.....and they are good for superimposing as well.......\m/\m/

Have fun with them..... smile.gif
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Neurologi
post Sep 21 2009, 09:07 PM
Post #17


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 370
Joined: 28-August 09
From: Vaasa, Finland
Member No.: 7.566



If your video is anything to judge by, I sure like what I am hearing. Sounds smooth and very natural. Nice variations there indeed. Well done. Now give me time ... quite a bit of it ... I just have to incorporate some of these ideas into my own playing ... smile.gif


--------------------
My gear? Mesa Boogie Triaxis - TC Electronic G-Major - Marshall 9200 Dual MonoBloc (2x100W) - Fender Roc Pro 4x12 (300W) + a whole lot more!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Pedja Simovic
post Sep 22 2009, 10:22 AM
Post #18


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 8.109
Joined: 13-September 08
From: Nis, Serbia
Member No.: 5.892



Great of you to share these arpeggios and inversions Monte. Very useful for tapping!
I will cover tapping with some MTP students so I might use some of it smile.gif


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 


RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 22nd December 2014 - 09:37 PM