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> What Can Actually Be Counted As A Chord?, Alan holdsworth
VictorUK
post Dec 14 2009, 01:29 AM
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Just digged out my vigier passion III which is awesome for playing crazy "chords" with clean echo etc for fusion such as alan holdsworth stuff but i was just playing random bunches of notes which just sounded all fusion like but i dont even know if there chords?

what is actually counted as a chord?

This post has been edited by VictorUK: Dec 14 2009, 01:29 AM


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Jakub Luptovec
post Dec 14 2009, 01:44 AM
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I guess anything, which can at least remotely fit into some kind of harmonic pattern... yet I think there are no real borders.. if you want you can make everything as a chord/weird scale

Not, that I am an theory expert.. am intersted in instructors/more funded people opinions as well


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Frederik
post Dec 14 2009, 02:21 AM
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Any grouping of notes is a chord. that chord might could then be either very unstable/dissonant or stable/consonant..
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Emir Hot
post Dec 14 2009, 03:28 AM
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Chord is 3 or more notes played together - any 3 different notes.

You can also have 2 notes at the same time but that's not really considered a chord. One exception is where you only play 2 notes (root and the 5th) and the popular name for this is "power chord" even though this is not really a defined chord.


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VictorUK
post Dec 14 2009, 04:13 AM
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So it can be 3 notes or more even though they are exactly the same note? i.e. all C notes.


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Emir Hot
post Dec 14 2009, 04:23 AM
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QUOTE (VictorUK @ Dec 14 2009, 03:13 AM) *
So it can be 3 notes or more even though they are exactly the same note? i.e. all C notes.

No. Only 3 or more different notes is a chord smile.gif Of course you can repeat some of those in more octaves if you like.


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Santiago Diaz Ga...
post Dec 14 2009, 04:58 AM
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Emir already said it. I'd like to add that it has to have a root note and a note that defines in which tonality is it (Minor, Major)


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Emir Hot
post Dec 14 2009, 05:08 AM
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Santiago is right. In order to define whether a chord is minor or major we look at the 3rd interval. If the 3rd is major then the chord is some kind of major. It can be major 7, major 9, major7#9 etc... The same is for minor chords. If the 3rd is minor then the chord is some kind of minor.

There are exceptions when the chord has no root or 3rd. For those chords we can say for example A7(no 3rd), or A7(no root). This is usually done when a bass guitar (or some other instrument) plays that note which you're missing in your chord so all instruments together still produce the full chord. You don't need to think much about this now but I just wanted to say that this exists as well.


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Santiago Diaz Ga...
post Dec 14 2009, 05:15 AM
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Excelent add Emir!


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jafomatic
post Dec 14 2009, 06:49 AM
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Not to pick nits, but I think we're missing the delicate art of suspension which also results in a valid chord without a third interval present. Also of note, Victor, but seven of your last eight questions are answered rather clearly in andrew's theory chapters. smile.gif



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Emir Hot
post Dec 14 2009, 07:24 AM
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QUOTE (jafomatic @ Dec 14 2009, 05:49 AM) *
Not to pick nits, but I think we're missing the delicate art of suspension which also results in a valid chord without a third interval present. Also of note, Victor, but seven of your last eight questions are answered rather clearly in andrew's theory chapters. smile.gif

True smile.gif I just didn't want to confuse further. The question was simple and we already made a whole science hahah

Suspended chords can be sus2 (someone says sus9) or sus4. That's when you replace 3rd with either 2nd or 4th. Both tend to resolve somewhere, usually towards the 3rd or the root. They act like a passing chords just before the resolution occurs.


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Daniel Realpe
post Dec 14 2009, 04:15 PM
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There's also an important distinction between triads and chords.

An actual chord in Baroque counterpoint has to have one of the notes in the triad doubled. So if you only have 3 notes such as C, E, G that would be a triad, but if an "extra" C or G or E appears along with the triad then that's called a chord.





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Emir Hot
post Dec 14 2009, 09:24 PM
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QUOTE (Daniel Realpe @ Dec 14 2009, 03:15 PM) *
There's also an important distinction between triads and chords.

An actual chord in Baroque counterpoint has to have one of the notes in the triad doubled. So if you only have 3 notes such as C, E, G that would be a triad, but if an "extra" C or G or E appears along with the triad then that's called a chord.

Interesting. I didn't know about this. I know that the triad is also a chord but maybe someone is using different rules for this. I learned that C, E, G and another C is still a triad.


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Pedja Simovic
post Dec 14 2009, 11:41 PM
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We have a note which is one single note played at the time, interval which can be 2 notes played at the same time (harmonic) or one after another (melodic) and we then have a triad which is 3 different notes played together. There are conventional type triads like Major, Minor, Augmented and Diminished but then we get to some really cool stuff that not many people don't even get to which is CLUSTERS, FORTHS, SUSPENDED TRIADS and other unconventional type triads which I don't want to bother you about. I will just say that clusters are chord voicings that use 2nds or diatonic seconds exclusively. I will do lesson series on this of course smile.gif Forths are when we use perfect 4ths or diatonic 4ths. Stephane's lessons was published on this couple of days ago, it might still be on main page. Think Bill Evans and So What standard if you want to hear where voicings in 4ths really came from. Suspended triads are well known ones like Sus2 (125) and Sus4 (145) but then we have other triads that are impossible to label so we would have to write full voicings - things like C F# G or C E F# etc those are triads but not conventional in any way wink.gif

This post has been edited by Pedja Simovic: Dec 14 2009, 11:42 PM


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Emir Hot
post Dec 15 2009, 12:09 AM
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Great post Pedja. I kinda wanted to keep it all simple as the question is really simple, but we all started adding stuff and I knew that we'll eventually get to this point to explain it all smile.gif haha, never enough of theory


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Pedja Simovic
post Dec 15 2009, 01:23 AM
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QUOTE (Emir Hot @ Dec 15 2009, 12:09 AM) *
Great post Pedja. I kinda wanted to keep it all simple as the question is really simple, but we all started adding stuff and I knew that we'll eventually get to this point to explain it all smile.gif haha, never enough of theory


Thanks Emir and I agree with you - never enough of theory biggrin.gif


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Ivan Milenkovic
post Dec 15 2009, 01:46 AM
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Great posts guys, nothing more to add here, I actually learned some new stuff wink.gif


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VictorUK
post Dec 15 2009, 02:13 AM
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QUOTE (jafomatic @ Dec 14 2009, 05:49 AM) *
Not to pick nits, but I think we're missing the delicate art of suspension which also results in a valid chord without a third interval present. Also of note, Victor, but seven of your last eight questions are answered rather clearly in andrew's theory chapters. smile.gif

I dont like andrews way of teaching (no offense) but i signed up on GMC not to read walls of text but to learn from videos and i have found a great teacher who does FREE theory lessons on the internet so i learn from him hes like one of the only theory teachers i actually understand because hes not vague about things and answers questions that are very obscure and i like that because i.e. say if someone is teaching modes it might bring on a couple of other questions that may otherwise not be answered fully answered within the article and without emphasis on the possible problems i have no way of understanding since i want to know the full picture instead of just textbook rubbish :/


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Pedja Simovic
post Dec 15 2009, 02:27 AM
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QUOTE (VictorUK @ Dec 15 2009, 02:13 AM) *
I dont like andrews way of teaching (no offense) but i signed up on GMC not to read walls of text but to learn from videos and i have found a great teacher who does FREE theory lessons on the internet so i learn from him hes like one of the only theory teachers i actually understand because hes not vague about things and answers questions that are very obscure and i like that because i.e. say if someone is teaching modes it might bring on a couple of other questions that may otherwise not be answered fully answered within the article and without emphasis on the possible problems i have no way of understanding since i want to know the full picture instead of just textbook rubbish :/


I don't mean to offend your teacher who gives FREE theory lessons on internet but the question you asked here was at the most very beginner based theory and harmony question. To me it seems from my point of view that his explanations are not as great as they seem. I like to teach my students starting with chromatic scale followed by major scale, intervals and chords. Those are must know things for anybody who wants to expand their horizons on theory and harmony and apply all that in real musical context. I am just saying that triads fall under beginner category and I am surprised that your critique Andrews way of teaching which covers a lot more then just basic triads and chord construction, but value some teacher online that doesn't even cover that?!? No offense to anybody smile.gif


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jafomatic
post Dec 15 2009, 02:30 AM
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QUOTE (Pedja Simovic @ Dec 14 2009, 07:27 PM) *
I don't mean to offend your teacher who gives FREE theory lessons on internet but the question you asked here was at the most very beginner based theory and harmony question.


My totally-amateur thoughts exactly. This goes for the last 8 of Vic's questions. I only took note because I'd seen your playing (Victor) and it's quite good; I truly thought you knew your way around.

Regarding the wall of text: you're making your own, brick by brick. So just read one brick at a time when you have a specific question? smile.gif


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