A Theory For Improvising?, Whole steps and half steps Options

[VictorUK]

Hi all just wondering if there is some sort of theory for improvising that is based around whole steps and half steps?

[Emir Hot]

Everything is based on whole and half steps. It's just a preference how you want to look at it. I personaly like to think of intervals and scale formula. For example for major scale for me it's easier if I think of 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 rather than T, T, S, T, T, T, S

T - tone (full step)
S - semitone (half step)

[VictorUK]

Everything is based on whole and half steps. It's just a preference how you want to look at it. I personaly like to think of intervals and scale formula. For example for major scale for me it's easier if I think of 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 rather than T, T, S, T, T, T, S

T - tone (full step)
S - semitone (half step)

So would you then relate this theory to the 12 note scale?

[Staffy]

I'm not getting the question here, Victor. What do You mean?
In terms of scales there are the dimished (half/whole -tone) scale and there is the whole-tone scale. They can be applied to chords in many different ways. Speaking of more freely improvisation, You can move around patterns/phrases in whole or half steps as long as You resolve them to an appropiate note - or not, then it would be even "free'er"...
In western music we only have the 12 notes to fool around with, however in other cultures there are tones inbetween the semitones as well and scales that are not made up from our 12-note system.

//Staffay

Everything is based on whole and half steps. It's just a preference how you want to look at it. I personaly like to think of intervals and scale formula. For example for major scale for me it's easier if I think of 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 rather than T, T, S, T, T, T, S

T - tone (full step)
S - semitone (half step)

Dont agree on this one Emir, even that it is true regarding most classical music, a pentatonic for instance has the minor third as well.....

//Staffay

[VictorUK]

I'm not getting the question here, Victor. What do You mean?
In terms of scales there are the dimished (half/whole -tone) scale and there is the whole-tone scale. They can be applied to chords in many different ways. Speaking of more freely improvisation, You can move around patterns/phrases in whole or half steps as long as You resolve them to an appropiate note - or not, then it would be even "free'er"...
In western music we only have the 12 notes to fool around with, however in other cultures there are tones inbetween the semitones as well and scales that are not made up from our 12-note system.

//Staffay

Yes the resolving of notes using some sort of whole note and half note system is what i mean... but is it possible in a improv situation or only possible if you sit down and analyze what you want to play or if possible at all lol?

[Caelumamittendum]

I'm not sure I get the question correctly, but I wouldn't say there's a theory for improvising that includes half and whole steps. You can of course combine the notes any way you like, as long as it conveys the sound you want it to convey. If that sound is based on playing thirds, fourths, fifths or whatever is another matter. I mean... most scales are based upon a pattern of half/whole steps (some have 1½ step, mind you...some might have even more, I geuss.).

Then there's a whole conversation regarding playing inside and outside. If you have a chord progression in the key of C major, you'd be safe to improvise from the C major scale which is 1-1-½-1-1-1-½ in terms of the build of the scale - not wise C D E F G A B (C ). If you only stick to playing these patterns up and down, you'd quickly be catagorized as a boring guitarist, I'd think. So it's about learning the intervals and their tensions and resolutions, and that's not something that can be achieved just by "understanding" or looking at it, in my opinion. You have to make up your own idea of what the 9th sounds like in your head, what the 11th, 13th etc etc. sounds like. Kinda like with modes... when someone say "phrygian" or "phrygian dominant" I think Malmsteen, Lydian is Vai/Satch for me and so on. That's just how I relate them in my head.

Now go and try and play some scales on maybe just static chords, hear the intervals and hear how they sound on that chord, make a chord progression with two chords then and try to play on that. Sure you can say that there's a pattern you'd improvise from, but you don't want to play strictly up and down. When I say that you don't want to improvise pattern-esque that's not to say you should not think about sequences, motifs etc. It shouldn't either be completely random.

[Emir Hot]

Dont agree on this one Emir, even that it is true regarding most classical music, a pentatonic for instance has the minor third as well.....

//Staffay

What is that you don't agree ? I just said I find it easier to read scale formula in intervals rather than thinking of half/full steps. And as you said, most music is made of 12 notes and combination of half/full steps with the exception of some "exotic" scales that don't use perfect tuning.

[Ivan Milenkovic]

Hi all just wondering if there is some sort of theory for improvising that is based around whole steps and half steps?

Not really, or at least not that I've heard of. Whole step/half step are just intervals and although it is important to be familiar with those they are not the only thing that matters when it comes to improvising. Improvising includes much more than that, like other intervals as well, then chords, scales, keys, modes. After you learn those, you can start to build your improvising skills. Here's a nice quote from wiki regarding jazz improvising:

Improvisation is one of the basic elements that sets jazz apart from other types of music. Even if improvisation is also found outside of jazz, it may be that no other music relies so much on the art of "composing in the moment", demanding that every musician rise to a certain level of creativity that may put the performer in touch with his or her unconscious as well as conscious states. [25] Many varied scales and their modes can be used in improvisation. They are often not written down in the process, but they help musicians practice the jazz idiom. An example of a musician who improvises on solo piano is Keith Jarrett (see e.g.The Köln Concert).[citation needed]

A common view of what a jazz soloist does could be expressed thus: as the harmonies go by, he [sic] selects notes from each chord, out of which he fashions a melody. He is free to embellish by means of passing and neighbor tones, and he may add extensions to the chords, but at all times a good improviser must follow the changes. ... [However], a jazz musician really has several options: he may reflect the chord progression exactly, he may "skim over" the progression and simply elaborate the background harmony, or he may fashion his own voice-leading which may clash at some points with the chords the rhythm section is playing. [26]

[Staffy]

What is that you don't agree ? I just said I find it easier to read scale formula in intervals rather than thinking of half/full steps. And as you said, most music is made of 12 notes and combination of half/full steps with the exception of some "exotic" scales that don't use perfect tuning.

Hehe, I dont agree on that everything is made up on half/whole steps...... there are some exceptions , otherwise I agree

Yes the resolving of notes using some sort of whole note and half note system is what i mean... but is it possible in a improv situation or only possible if you sit down and analyze what you want to play or if possible at all lol?

You can use all of the 12-notes as passing notes at least on whatever chord imo. And You can for instance use a half/whole -scale always when there are a 7'th chord, even that it might be boring in the end.... I dont think the key to sudcess is to make too much theory out of it, improvising is playing what You hear - eg. if You cant sing it, dont try to play it! But of course, the ear can be trained by practicing different scales, intervals and approaches to improvisation. Personally I dont think in terms of scales/theory in a improvising situation at all.

//Staffay

This post has been edited by Staffy: Feb 9 2010, 04:06 PM

[Crazy_Diamond]

When I improvise I play a lot of time in function of chords. I am using the degree in the scale to be able to know where the strong notes are.

You should read the student indtructor lesson I have written here

Once you know where your root, third and fifth are you know ho to play around. For example if it is a major scaloe everything stay the same. If I play in minor hamonic, I kno that the 3rd and the 6th are flatten and I know that the 7 is a half step lower than the root.

This is really usefull since it allows you to create easily different melody using the mode and different type of scale, you just have to learn the degree of the scale.

Hope this helps Victor

[Daniel Realpe]

I think it's a good idea to think in terms of intervals, so become familiar with fifths, then fourths, then thirds and so on,

not really in terms of half steps and whole steps unless you are doing a diminished scale which consists on S - T - S - T - S -T etc...

[Vasilije Vukmiro...]

I don't think there is actual theory of improvising based on half step whole step. The whole thing is that scales are secondary. The major things are harmony and rhythm. Only then can we talk about scales.