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> Relationship Scales And Modes
snackajacks
post Jan 6 2012, 11:17 AM
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Well as I have a lot of spare time I am trying to understand modes, I read guides everywhere but the coin
doesn't hit.

if you have


Jonisch C - D - E - F - G - A - B - C
Dorisch D - E - F - G - A - B - C - D
Phrygisch E - F - G - A - B - C - D - E
Lydisch F - G - A - B - C - D - E - F
Mixolydisch G - A - B - C - D - E - F - G
Aeolisch A - B - C - D - E - F - G - A
Locrisch B - C - D - E - F - G - A - B

wouldn't this mean that it has nothing to do with the notes of modes but more the intervals ?
I understand that Ionisch = major and minor= aeolian

so if I would learn every mode on 1 position of the fretboard. Do I know all of the notes of that scale on
the fretboard ?

It know it sounds weird but Im really new to theory after 5 years of guitar.


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Ivan Milenkovic
post Jan 6 2012, 11:21 AM
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Yes, it has everything to do with intervals.

Watch the intervals in C major (C Ionian) scale:

C - D - E = F - G - A - B = C

"-" stands for whole step (major second)
"=" stands for half step (minor second)

When you shift the tonic to another note, intervals stay where they are, so another scale (mode) is being formed.


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snackajacks
post Jan 6 2012, 11:27 AM
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QUOTE (Ivan Milenkovic @ Jan 6 2012, 11:21 AM) *
Yes, it has everything to do with intervals.

Watch the intervals in C major (C Ionian) scale:

C - D - E = F - G - A - B = C

"-" stands for whole step (major second)
"=" stands for half step (minor second)

When you shift the tonic to another note, intervals stay where they are, so another scale (mode) is being formed.


that makes a lot of sense but they often say that if you know one position of all of the modes, you can play the whole
scale. is this correct ?


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Ivan Milenkovic
post Jan 6 2012, 06:24 PM
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QUOTE (snackajacks @ Jan 6 2012, 11:27 AM) *
that makes a lot of sense but they often say that if you know one position of all of the modes, you can play the whole
scale. is this correct ?


Not sure exactly what you mean, but this applies to any pattern. If you play it in one key, you can easily play it in another, just by shifting the pattern left or right, so yes - in a way - you can learn it once and apply it in another position for another mode/key smile.gif


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Andrew Cockburn
post Jan 6 2012, 06:40 PM
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You could check out my modes theory lessons :

http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_fo...?showtopic=5012
http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_fo...?showtopic=3456

But essentially, if you know the pattern for a scale, such as C major, you also know the pattern for all of its modes as it is the same but with a different root note.

However, if you look at modes this way you will likely end up confusing yourself. Modes are not patterns, the fact that they share patterns is related to how they are generated but not what they are.

To truly understand modes, play all of them one after the other but with the same root note -

C Ionian
C Dorian
C Phrygian

etc

You will hear the subtle differences between them. If you focus on relative modes (like the modes you listed out) you won't hear the difference, as the notes are the same. Only when you understand this first part should you start to look at relative modes (modes that share the same notes) - in my experience that avoids a lot of confusion!

This post has been edited by Andrew Cockburn: Jan 6 2012, 06:47 PM


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Bogdan Radovic
post Jan 6 2012, 06:44 PM
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QUOTE (snackajacks @ Jan 6 2012, 11:27 AM) *
that makes a lot of sense but they often say that if you know one position of all of the modes, you can play the whole
scale. is this correct ?


Yes - if you know all the modes and their order (Ionian - Dorian - Phrygian......) you can essentially play for example the C major scale all over the neck!
You could start with ionian mode on root note C, then play the Dorian mode from note D and so on.

Since diatonic modes (that share the same key center) basically all share the same notes - they help you learn the whole neck/fretboard.
So if you find yourself soloing in D dorian and want to change your position - you know that to the left you have the C ionian and to the right E phrygian modes to play with (since those are same notes as D dorian).


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snackajacks
post Jan 6 2012, 07:25 PM
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QUOTE (Bogdan Radovic @ Jan 6 2012, 06:44 PM) *
Yes - if you know all the modes and their order (Ionian - Dorian - Phrygian......) you can essentially play for example the C major scale all over the neck!
You could start with ionian mode on root note C, then play the Dorian mode from note D and so on.

Since diatonic modes (that share the same key center) basically all share the same notes - they help you learn the whole neck/fretboard.
So if you find yourself soloing in D dorian and want to change your position - you know that to the left you have the C ionian and to the right E phrygian modes to play with (since those are same notes as D dorian).


yess that was were I was looking for thanks !!

since I am not an active member I can't download the theory book I guess...

This post has been edited by snackajacks: Jan 6 2012, 07:29 PM


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Ivan Milenkovic
post Jan 6 2012, 10:50 PM
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Try my "Mastering Diatonic Pattern" lesson CAGED system, for 5 positions of the diatonic scale for major keys smile.gif


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quadrium
post Jan 6 2012, 11:01 PM
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Each mode has a 1 boxed pattern on fretboard, total of 7 positions. Since all 7 modes consists from the same notes of given scale if you learn those 7 boxes you can play the same scale all over the fretboard.


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Cosmin Lupu
post Jan 7 2012, 07:35 PM
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Another very important aspect about modes, lies in the fact that each mode sounds different due to particular notes in its structure. Ear training would be very good for you in this situation and it will help you master modes!

If you are into this idea, drop by on Thursday - I'm starting a course on modes smile.gif we'll be talking about the Ionian mode first so, I'll be glad if I could answer your questions wink.gif cheerios mate


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llibach
post Jan 7 2012, 09:18 PM
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If your willing to spend a little money, then I'd recomend Frank Gambale's Modes no More mystery dvd. It really helped me to understand the application of modes and where to use them and to recognize modal chord progressions which is an important factor but rarely mentioned.
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Andrew Cockburn
post Jan 7 2012, 09:37 PM
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QUOTE (llibach @ Jan 7 2012, 03:18 PM) *
If your willing to spend a little money, then I'd recomend Frank Gambale's Modes no More mystery dvd. It really helped me to understand the application of modes and where to use them and to recognize modal chord progressions which is an important factor but rarely mentioned.


Great point - modes & chords are so intertwined that its hard to keep them apart, nor should you. For me, it was a study of the chord sequences and scales together that really made modes click for me.

Here are a couple of GMC lessons that illustrates the point:

http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/solo-guit...ring-the-modes/
http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/rhythm-gu...-chords-lesson/

These helped me no end.


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snackajacks
post Jan 8 2012, 10:48 AM
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QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Jan 7 2012, 07:35 PM) *
Another very important aspect about modes, lies in the fact that each mode sounds different due to particular notes in its structure. Ear training would be very good for you in this situation and it will help you master modes!

If you are into this idea, drop by on Thursday - I'm starting a course on modes smile.gif we'll be talking about the Ionian mode first so, I'll be glad if I could answer your questions wink.gif cheerios mate


Ill be there!


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Cosmin Lupu
post Jan 8 2012, 10:58 AM
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QUOTE (snackajacks @ Jan 8 2012, 09:48 AM) *
Ill be there!


Awesomeness biggrin.gif


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snackajacks
post Jan 8 2012, 11:45 AM
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QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Jan 8 2012, 10:58 AM) *
Awesomeness biggrin.gif


I have also ordered Frank Gambale's Modes no More mystery !
Should be coming in on tuesday smile.gif


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PosterBoy
post Jan 9 2012, 11:12 AM
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Realising it is to do with the intervals is the biggest brick wall you have scaled straight away!




This post has been edited by PosterBoy: Jan 9 2012, 11:21 AM


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