Timmy B's Mentoring Thread Options

[Cosmin Lupu]

Ahoy Tim! Great man - good timing and tightness! You could punch a bit of gain in that tone to make it a bit more present and aggressive, as well as being wider and certain on the vibrato and bends. Otherwise, it's very good!

We could start discussing a bit on the major scale, intervals, harmonizing, chord progressions and harmony/ melody relationships, how does that sound?

Cosmin

[Timmy b]

Hey Cosmin

Sounds great! I have general knoweldge in these areas , but it all hasnt "clicked together". to make a full picture.
Deefinetly keen to look into it more.

Also ill come back to saraceno lesson once this finger sorts itself out. Get it polished up! Its a really cool lesson!

Also, thanks for posting my video a little while ago in the forums. Somehow i only just found it today!


Tim

[Cosmin Lupu]

You're welcome man

Let's dive into things - so, can you tell me what you know about the major scale and intervals? I got a few exercises which will help memorize the notes of each major scale and work on your ear training and interval knowledge, but first let's see what you already know

Cosmin

[Timmy b]

You're welcome man

Let's dive into things - so, can you tell me what you know about the major scale and intervals? I got a few exercises which will help memorize the notes of each major scale and work on your ear training and interval knowledge, but first let's see what you already know

Cosmin

Ok, Major scale. I know there are 12 of them. (plus enharmonic ones i guess in relation to circle of fifths,eg.. C#/Db - F#/Gb - B/Cb)
Formula = 1234567 or wwhwwwh. I understand the degrees. 6th= Relative minor(aeolian) 2nd=Dorian ect... plus a good grasp on locations of paterns on the neck. Need to memorize the notes better i guess

Intervals, good understanding i guess. i know the old method of naming. eg perfect/diminished 5th, major/augmented 2nd. But prefer the simpler sytem of b2 b6 #4 ect. I know the importance of some of the intervals. eg thirds in relation to major/minor- 7ths in 7th Chords - 5th being the perfect 5th and all that.

Hmm , think thats about it. Hows that sound?

Tim

[Cosmin Lupu]

It sounds like we can already start discussing about modes it sounds like you know enough stuff to dive into the world of modes - would you like that?

I am running a v-chat series on modes and we can talk about these a lot - progressions and the relationship between harmony and melody.

What are your 5 fav songs? Let's analyze their progressions and see what we can find

Cosmin

[Timmy b]

Hi Cosmin, Sounds good!
Definetly will try to catch the chat

As for fav songs, thats too hard a question!
I'll give you some songs i like from my "flavour of the month" stuff.

Iron Maiden - Wasted years
Dream theatre - Another Day
Faith no more - Everythings ruined
The Living End - West End Riot
Def Leppard - Hysteria

Hmm, Pretty wierd mix huh!

Tim

This post has been edited by Timmy b: Apr 25 2012, 10:02 AM

[Cosmin Lupu]

Alright Tim!

I like the first three myself so this will be interesting. Let's start with the DT song:

Verse:

Am F/A Am G7sus4 G

F C Bb G7sus4 G

Am F/A Am G7sus4 G

F C Bb Am

Chorus:

Dm7 C/E F C

Dm7 C/E F G7sus4 G

Tell me, what conclusions would you draw regarding the following things:

- on what scales are the chord progressions based?
- can you sort out the verse and chorus vocal lines and see what notes are being used? This will lead us to a discussion around the relationship between the harmonic context and the melodies

Cosmin

[Timmy b]

Hey Cosmin
This a little tricky, but its good you're forcing me to do this!

Fiirstly im a little confused, as im not able to match the chords you gave me to the actual song? Maybe ive got a different version? Or maybe im just bad with hearing piano Chords not sure

Ok,based on the chords you gave me, I think the verse prog is based on the C major scale. vi-IV-V-V IV-I-?-V-V. vi-IV-V-V IV-I-?-vi. But the Bb doesnt fit? but the G7 fits in the c major scale.
It also fits in the F major scale too. iii-I-ii-?-I-IV-ii-? But now G major doesnt fit. But i assume the g7sus doesnt matter too much because of its missing 3rd?
but i was also thinking of minor keys/scale. but not exactly sure on them. your gonna have to help me with this.
also, which is the tonal base on slash chords?

The Chorus works out of the C major again. ii-I-IV-I.( I think)


From my own findings i found these bass notes in the verse G#,F#,E ,B,A, F# - G#,F#,E, B, A, G#
In the chorus im hearing C#,D#,E, B - C#,D#,E,F# iii- ii - I - vi-IV-ii iii- ii - I -vi-IV -iii Based on E major?
ii - iii - IV -vi ii - iii - IV-ii

Also the Bridge i heard B,A, G#,F#,E - also E maj - G, C, D,E,D,C, B, riff, F# modulation to Gmaj?
vi-IV- iii - ii - IV I - IV-V vi-V-IV-iii - vii

The verse vocal lines include the notes B-C#-D#-E-F#-G#. Fits into the B major scale. But also E major
The chorus vocals are the same notes
The sax solo are the same notes plus an A# making it a B major scale
This seems to tell me the vocal are in B major

Ok, that will do, you really got me thinking/confused me on this one!
Maybe ive over thought about it?

Tim

[Cosmin Lupu]

No way man it's SUPER AWESOME that you took things so deep I'll come up with a detailed feedback tomorrow morning with the axe in hand, right now I want my pillow, badly

[Cosmin Lupu]

Alright Tim, so it took me a little longer than I thought, but these drills will serve well!

So for the verse, we are having the A minor and the F major scales - Bb belongs to the F major indeed and the G7 and G7 sus4 belong to Am scale. They combined it in such a way that it made sense

Try to play the chords on an acoustic guitar ans strum them, it'll make sense once you sing over them this is how I usually work in order to understand what's happening there. The slash chords belong to A minor (derived from C major of course)

I would first ask you to try simple positions for the chords in order to make them sounds with the vocal lines I am playing almost everything in the first 6 positions.

BUT.... one more thing - the original recording is in Ab minor, so if you're not tuned down here's where all the confusion came from I forgot to mention this.

Tune to Eb standard and everything will make sense - just checked the vocal lines as well and all the notes from the lines belong to Ab minor (B major as you said)

I think you nailed it right man no confusion!

I haven't thought about the bridge yet should we tackle that one?

Cosmin

[Timmy b]

Hey Cosmin,
No probs with the delay. Thanks for a taking the time to help me!

The drop tuning makes sence now! Dont know how i missed that?
i'll play around with the chords and struming to get a grasp of it better.

Guess we could have a look at the bridge section next, or we could move on to something else. Im pretty easy
Your call

Tim

[Cosmin Lupu]

Hey mate let's finish this one first I got a thing for finishing what I am beginning

So here are the chords for the bridge:

C Bb Am
G7sus4 G F
G# C#/G# D# F
Fm D# C#
C7sus4 C7 Fm G

You chose a beautiful piece of music man, but with a lot of tricky harmonies what can you discover here?

Cosmin

[Timmy b]

Hey Cosmin,

Ive been on the road again, so i havnt been able to do my homework
Its a great song but damn tricky indeed!

Ok, here goes

1st bit
C Bb Am Seems to be based on same as earlier in the song( Aminor+ Fmajor) Although differnt order. also still not to sure about
G7sus4 G F how major and minor keys work. Did it switch to C major? with D minor ? need more work/explanation in this area.
The vocals seem to be based around the Cmajor though. starts on G (V) and keeps returning to C ? maybe


2nd bit
G# C#/G# D# F Seems to modulate to G# major here (or Ab major depending how you work) i find the B# and double# anoying
Fm D# C# notes in vocals D#,G#,F ,C#,C, D# Starts on 5th again. also Fm and F maj?

This bit Not sure how the C7 fits or the G? the vocals are on the same melody is as before, except on last "whoa" where
C7sus4 C7 Fm G the extra D is used. Is this another case of two keys like before? Fmajor? In its relative minor Dminor would explain
the extra D, also the C7.

So whats the answer?

Ok, ive racked my brain over this one way too long and i still dont quite "get it" all. Think we'll have to revist it again down the line
Maybe we do an easier one next

Tim

[Timmy b]

Heya Cosmin

I was just reading back over the last post and realized that it wasnt posted the way i typed it, and for some reason it turned into a jumbled mess! My bad! So here's a here's a repost to make your life a little easier

1st bit
C Bb Am
G7sus4 G F

Seems to be based on same as earlier in the song( Aminor+ Fmajor) Although differnt order. also still not to sure about
how major and minor keys work. Did it switch to C major? with D minor ? need more work/explanation in this area.
The vocals seem to be based around the Cmajor though. starts on G (V) and keeps returning to C ? maybe


2nd bit
G# C#/G# D# F

Seems to modulate to G# major here (or Ab major depending how you work) i find the B# and double# anoying
Fm D# C# notes in vocals D#,G#,F ,C#,C, D# Starts on 5th again. also Fm and F maj?

End bit
C7sus4 C7 Fm G

Not sure how the C7 fits or the G? the vocals are on the same melody is as before, except on last "whoa" where
the extra D is used. Is this another case of two keys like before? Fmajor? In its relative minor Dminor would explain
the extra D, also the C7.


Allright done! A little better

Tim

[Cosmin Lupu]

hey Tim! thanks for the re-arrangement man!

This looks very good - I just checked everything and it seems legit man!

In the first part as you said the combo between C major and F major then modulating to that AWFUL G# major scale and toward the end they are in the key of F major (I took this because of the C7) and Fm is some sort of a pivoting note as it also appears in the context above, where the G# major scale is happening.

Man this was tricky indeed what do you think, should we cool off with something easier? You choose the next out of the 5 you told me about

How are you doing otherwise?

Cosmin

[Timmy b]

Hey man

Good to know i was on the right (ish) path. It was really Tricky, started to mess with my head a little!
Definetly wanna try something simpler to get the concepts more concrete.

Heres one I prepared earlier

Everythings Ruined - FNM

Intro
piano is tricky to name chords. Notes are D, G, C#, B , E. the notes fit the D Major Scale like next bit. Bass notes G and E. extra notes 1 - 2 semitones, nice dissonance and tension! hmm

Next bit
G,B,A Chords. Harmonix are E, D, C#, B, G, A notes the C# + G combo only fit D Major.

Verse
Bass runs on the F# here. piano plays F#,A,E,D,C#,B. Vocals are G#,A,C#, but also G.
So this drops it in both D maj and A maj. Or is the in F# min (from Amaj) and The G is anacidental?

Pre Chorus Chords F#,E, A, B,C Vocals are( i Think) E, F#, G, A, But the end bit (Bouncing little baby) Uses a C#. Biut hard to tell.
But I think the C# is another accidental and This bit fits in Gmaj/Emin? Which One? or is the C# accidental?

Chorus
Chords D, A. Piano does full run of D maj scale. Vocals use them too. So D Maj modulation Here I think

Bridge Bit
F#, G, A Chords. F#, A, B, E, C. Thinking it fits with the pre chorus. or intro key ?????

Ok, turns out this isnt as simple as i thought it was. still leaves some questions unanswered.

Im wondering if maybe you can pick the next track of your own choosing. something straight forward enough to really get confident with this stuff. but my choices are cool too, in case youve preped them already


As for me, Keeping myself busy with my digital music studies. Really frustrated not being able to play much guitar though,its a real struggle. But At least the weather has warmed up! Also im looking into some exercises to work on my right hand teqnuiques. any sugestions?

Hope your keeping well too. Also , if you get sick of doin these drills or dont have the time. feel free to change it to a different direction anytime!

Cheers mate!

[Cosmin Lupu]

Hey mate I actually love these drills as they get my mind working as well

I will inspect your work with the axe in my hand this evening when I get home and I shall also send recommendations in the right hand workout directions

Cosmin

[Cosmin Lupu]

Mate, I need a bit more time on this one, as I am not sure yet I think it's trickier than the DT song or at least this is how it looks like to me. Will let you know after I dabble in it a bit more but in the mean time, so that we may not stall - here's a thing for both your right hand picking technique - Alternate picking that is and some nice theoretical ideas.

I came up with this one after having to concoct something for the symphonic orchestra collaboration and it felt like it can be a great lesson for GMC as well - try it and let me know how it feels

http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/ls/Antoni...nter-Arpeggios/


Cosmin

[Timmy b]

Hey Cosmin,

All good, Whenever you figure it all out. And dont worry, there's no stalling. Im off Working in my digital music world, so im pretty busy with all that!
I love the lesson! Really like Vivaldi, but its too "busy" for my left hand. espesialy the pinkie. But i will analize the structure and chords though, looks interesting!

Good Luck With the track, catch you soon

Tim

[Cosmin Lupu]

Hey Tim I don't necessarily want you to play it at that speed too soon try to get it into your system and use it as a good warmup at lower speeds - it'll build up AP and left/ right hand coordination

I'll be back about the Faith No More track

Cosmin