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> HEY MAN, I really need your help...

...the thing is, I need you to start progressing faster then ever, but to achieve that I need your help:

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> Cem's Thread, for Gab's Army
Gabriel Leopardi
post Apr 6 2012, 11:13 PM
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Hi Cem!! Welcome to your Gab's Army thread!!

Could you please tell me a bit about you, your musical tastes, influences, strengths and weaknesses? I would need some videos of you playing rhythm and solo guitar, so please post your best material here. If you have some music or ideas of your own, also post them here. Also let me know how you think that I can help you and what are your expectations for our job. You can check the other Army's thread to discover the different modalities of this project.


The principles of our Army are:

+ Improve your technique
+ Make music and solos
+ Have fun
+ Destroy the enemy (hahaha not realy just kidding... )


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Cem
post Apr 7 2012, 06:27 AM
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Hey man, thank's for the recruit tongue.gif.

Here is my soundcloud profile, it contains several records for reference (and also your power metal rhythm at the end tongue.gif) Feedback is appreciated.

http://soundcloud.com/cengiz-kaygusuz

Currently I'm working with Cosmin on my rhythm guitar and following the bushido tasks of Ben. I am here because I have practically no knowledge about music theory or how to make a sounding track. I have come up with some licks and melodies on my own but never managed to stick them together.

About my musical tastes, I love piano, and I absolutely love guitar. I would listen to everything made with these instruments. But for the instructional causes let's say that I have a broad spectrum of musical taste in guitar which only excludes only the most aggressive sounding ones.

I am here to learn theory, how to improvise, jam along with fellow musicians and simply, to be able to play exactly what I feel.

I have more to say actually, but first I want to hear from you. What do you think?
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Gabriel Leopardi
post Apr 7 2012, 11:47 PM
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Hi mate! This sounds promising. My first thought is to start work in 3 things that are completely connected. Analyzing some of your favorite songs, learning theory and harmony, working on your own ideas together to build songs.
If you like the idea I will need to you to post here:

1. Youtube video of some of your favorite songs.
2. Post exactly what do you know about theory: Scales, Modes, Chords, Triads, Arpeggios, Progressions.
3. What style of music would you like to create? Instrumental? Songs with Lyrics? Do you have some ideas or riffs unfinished? Post them here!

My idea is to use this place to motivate your creativity in different ways: Listening to new music, learning new chords or scales, learning and analyzing songs, creating a bank of ideas and trying to develop them.

What do you think? smile.gif


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Cem
post Apr 8 2012, 07:32 AM
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That kind of curriculum is definitely something I would love to go through. Let's get started.


Here is a small list of songs I particularly like















You count in every rock classic too.


About theory; I am familiar with most of the terminology but have no idea how to make them work. My former guitar instructor gave me lectures on harmony for one or two months, during that time I learned the most basic stuff, such as scales (major, minor, minor scale variations), how to spot accents on a given scale, some chord shapes by their names (this is the only thing I remember to be honest) and intervals.

I am definitely an instrumental guy. I love instrumental music but that doesn't means I don't want to make music with lyrics tongue.gif. And yes, I have some ideas, will record them when available.
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Gabriel Leopardi
post Apr 9 2012, 06:25 PM
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Great stuff man! Ok, Let's start working. Please post some ideas here and I can guide you working on them!

Also please choose one of the songs that you posted and do the following analysis. The idea is that you use this template to analyse many songs. You will incorporate the structures, chord progressions and most used ideas on your favourite songs.

Song analysis template:

Name of the song:
Name of the band:

Structure // What is happening? // Chords & Scalesnull

Structure: You will divide the tune in Intro - Riff - Verse - Prechorus- - Chorus - Solo - Part C and so... You can add the letters A, B, C to the sections when you find different ones in the same tune (Ex: Verse A, Verse B, Chorus, Solo A, Solo)

what is happening?: Here you will describe each part. You can explain how is the part, if it has vocals, screams, melodies, harmonizations, how much is last, how many measures, etc. Every information that could be useful to understand the part.

Chords & Scales: Here you will post the tonality, the chord progression and the scales used for the melodies and solos.

Post you analysis using this concept here in one week.


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Cem
post Apr 17 2012, 06:35 PM
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Name of the Song : Clavicula Nox (translates to english as "Key of the Night" I believe)
Name of the Band : Therion


Structure of the Song :

- Intro
- Verse 1
- Chorus
- Verse 2
- Chorus
- Interlude
- Solo
- Pre Outtro
- Outtro


The song has a weird feeling. It is neither deprecating or radiating happiness. I am not sure about the literal meaning of the song's name but It definitely feels like "night". Let's talk about what's going on.

Intro:
A variation of main riff(I'm not sure about "riff" truly compensates the meaning) is played, giving a little glimpse about the rest of the song.

Verse 1:
After hearing the main riff, first verse begins. The singer is mezzo-soprano of female voice, main riff is going on through verses.

Chorus:
Chorus is truly the signature of Symphonic Metal. A choire sings with backing of electric guitar.

Verse 2:
Same as Verse 1 with difference in lyrics.

Interlude:
After the second chorus, It wouldn't be wrong if we were to say rest of the song is instrumental. We can separate interlude to 2 phases; first part is a sequence of arpeggio played by electric and backed by symphonic intruments, second part is a beautiful symphony music.

Solo:
Guitar solo of the song, but given the instrumental structure of the second-half of the song I would consider the solo as a just another part of the song.

Pre-Outtro:
This part serves as a bridge to the outtro.

Outtro:
In my opinion this is the climax of the song. The melody revealed in the pre-outtro is played here with backing of electric guitar. All the undertow built through the song is brought to the surface with the excellent harmony of symphonic and metal instruments.


Theory:

All I can say here is main chord progression:
Emadd9 - C - A#7M - B

The theory eludes me for now. I even got the chord progression with the help of guitar pro's chord widget.


Here it is Gab, as you asked. It is bit late, sorry about that.


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Apr 18 2012, 07:15 PM
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Hi Cem! Great analysis! This work should be weekly. You will add new concepts from each song that you analyse. No matter if it's just one idea or many of them. Keep this writing and have a look at the structure and the dynamics of each part. As soon as you have many songs analysed you will be able to compare and to understand why you like some songs over other and how they get the different feeling and atmospheres.
Regarding the chord progression, you don't have to understand exactly all the theory behind it but you can incorporate this chord changes as one possibility to get this feeling. The song is in E minor, but the main chord progression incorporates some chords that are frequently added to the natural minor tonalities.

This would be E minor tonality:

Em7 - F#m7b5 - Gmaj7 - Am7 - Bm7 - Cmaj7 - D7

Im7 IIm7b5 IIIM7 IVm7 Vm7 VIM7 VII7


Many times it's used the V7 instead of the Vm7. In the case of this song they added another chord that directly resolves on the V7 to finally reach the Im chord. That chord is A#dim (#IV). Another variation used in this song is replacing the Im7 with the Imadd9 to give a different colour. This chord has the same "tonic" function than the Im7.

So the correct progression is: Emadd9 - C - A#dim - B7




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Cem
post Apr 18 2012, 08:23 PM
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Thanks for the feedback Gab. There are something I want to talk about.

What do you do in order to learn a song's tonality? Taking a glance at chord progression or just listening?
I know you don't expect me to spit out every theory behind a song when analyzing it but this is something I want to do in the future.

Determining the chord progression of the songs which only chords are power chords. We can't talk about major-minor concept of the chords. Also, what can you say about the chord progression of Perfect Strangers?

And, creativity workshops. I think I saw this one of the soldiers thread and really liked it. We can build this around the analysis of the week's song or do as a separate process. What do you think?

This post has been edited by Cem: Apr 18 2012, 08:29 PM
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Gabriel Leopardi
post Apr 23 2012, 06:01 AM
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Hi Cem! It's very important to know how to determine the key of a song. Please check this tutorial and let me know if it clarifies how to do it.

http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/ls/Determ...-Key-Of-A-Song/

What question do you have about "Perfect Strangers"?

Regarding the Creativity workshops, we do this type of analysis and also work on compositions. We should continue analyzing songs and start working on your own ideas. What about creating a song for the Gab's Army Album? Do you have some ideas in progress?




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Cem
post Apr 23 2012, 11:22 AM
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Here is one of my ideas, I managed to patch it together. I'd love to use any material I can come up with in Army's album.

http://soundcloud.com/cengiz-kaygusuz/gab1

I watched Ivans lesson about tonality and I can say a great deal of magic surrounding to this topic has been dissipated, thanks for pointing that out.

Perfect Strangers was meant to be example of the point I was trying to make but I think it was a bad one.To clarify the topic, what can we say about chord progresson of the songs which there are no chords but power chords? Most of metal tracks are great example of that, like Master of Puppets.

And here is a new analysis.

Name of the Song : Orion
Name of the Band : Metallica

Structure :

- Intro
- Part A
- Bass Solo A
- Part B.0
- Interlude
- Guitar Solo A

- Part C
- Guitar - Bass partition
- Guitar Solo C

- Part B.1 (outtro)


One of the finest metal instrumental ever. In my opinion this song is the answer to why Metallica was one of the most successful bands ever.

In my opinion, this song is extraordinary because of ingenious usage of bass guitar. Bass and guitars are often switch roles here, and in the mid-song they play with beautiful harmony which makes them inseparable in terms of musicality.

Intro:
The song starts with drum beats, guitars are joining in slowly.

Part A:
I consider this as a part of the intro. Nothing fancy happens here, a riff is played straightforward, progressing through the song.

Bass Solo A:
More of a Bass "Interlude", this part serves as a bridge to Part B. Bass and Guitars are kind of switching roles here.

Part B.1
The riff which I consider "main" played here. Again, nothing fancy.

Interlude:
Bass is in front again, which is the trademark of the song. The song smoothly transitions into Guitar Solo.

Guitar Solo A:
A fine guitar solo delivers the goods here, carrying out the vibe built before. One of the first solos I've learned.

Part C:
This part is what makes this song distinct from the others in terms of musical display. This is the heart of the song. It is really difficult to explain what is going on here, this part is big compared to others as trying to break it into little parts is just going to take away the soul of the song. To briefly explain, bass is truly not just a supporting instrument but an individual on his own, playing though with great, great harmony of bass and guitars.

Guitar - Bass partition :
Part C ends with the intertwined guitar and bass solos. After this part, the song claims his wild nature again.

The preceeding two parts, as I said is what makes this song distinct from the others. It's not your run-of-the-mill metal song which built upon rock templates. The bass-guitar harmony of Part C reminds me of fugues.

Guitar Solo C:
A pure metal solo is played here, making the vibe clear and going again.

Part B.1:
The song ends with the riff played in B.0 part.



Theoretical Structure of the Song:

I was asking you about this. Metal songs often carries power chords or weird chords which makes it puzzling to derive harmony for me.

For example, Part A uses these chords:
Em(no5) - Esus2(no5) - D(no5) - D#m(no5)
Which is, um, incomprehensible for me. I don't understand the harmonic background here.

Interlude uses the chords :

A5 - E5 - C5 - E5

Part B uses the progression of :

A5 - B5 - C5 - B5

And, I think the song is in the E-Minor key again. Though it looks like the first guitar solo is played in D-Major.


I think metal songs are not suitable for studying theory upon them. Ugh.








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Gabriel Leopardi
post Apr 23 2012, 04:45 PM
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Hi mate! That's a really good analysis. Let's clarify your confusion about power chords and 3 or 4 notes chords. This tune is in E minor, so if we write the scale we have this:

E minor scale.
E - F# - G - A - B - C - D

As you already know, the way to get the chords for a tonality is harmonizing in thirds each note from the scale. You can add 1, 2, 3 or more notes to each root in order to get a chord that is part of tonality. In rocker/metal styles, musicians usually add just two (3rd & 5rd) and sometimes only one (5th) is added. So you basically have this 3 possibilities of each chord if you are in E minor key:

4 notes chords: (root- 3rd - 5th - 7th)
Em7 - F#m7b5 - Gmaj7 - Am7 - Bm7 - Cmaj7 - D7

3 notes chords: (Root - 3rd - 5th)
Em - F#mb5 - G - Am - Bm - C - D

Power chords: (Root - 5th)
E5 - F#dim5 - G5 - A5 - B5 - C5 - D5

Metallica uses mostly power chords and 3 notes chords (triads). However every time that the E5 appears, they could also play Em. It would sound good too, but the "colour" would be a bit different.

Casually this tune has a similar concept than the Therion song. Do you remember this?

"Many times it's used the V7 instead of the Vm7. In the case of this song they added another chord that directly resolves on the V7 to finally reach the Im chord. That chord is A#dim (#IV). Another variation used in this song is replacing the Im7 with the Imadd9 to give a different colour. This chord has the same "tonic" function than the Im7."

Well, Orion's main riff progression is:

Em - Esus2 - B5 - B/D#

The B/D# is B major chord but playing the third (D#) as the bass note. If you check E minor tonality you will notice that the V chord should be minor but once again is converted in major to get a different sound. Is it clear?


Regarding the idea, I really like it. Let work on it! You should continue it a bit more... do you have any idea to continue it?




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Cem
post Apr 23 2012, 06:47 PM
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I think truthness of the analysis comes down to identifying chords correctly. I had two axioms for this cause :

1 - First note of a chord is the root note.
2 - A chord shape on different areas of the fretboard is the same chord with different root.

They perfectly work on basic major-minor-seventh chords. Now, both are challenged by the B/D# chord, Em(no5) has the same shape with it but somehow they are named differently.

Is it always true that first chord of the song is always the song's tonality? How can I be aware of changing of tonality other than relative major-minor switching?

Also, is there are theoretical background for modifying chord progressions or they are done by the musician's ear? I think If I am to attempt something like this I'm pretty sure It will sound like I am committing blasphemy.
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Gabriel Leopardi
post Apr 24 2012, 02:40 PM
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One thing that you must have in mind is that no matter what books say, the last jury is your ear. If your ear is correctly trained and says "YES, you ave to trust on it. However having a well trained ear takes some years of work, and knowing the theory behind chord progressions and chords can help a lot. There are many books about this, one of my favorites to begin with this is Harmony & Theory by Keith Wyatt and Carl Schroeder. In this book you will find everything you need to know about scales, triads, chords, tonalities, modes, modulation and many other things.

About you axioms... "the first note of a chord is the root", this is correct, but considering that the first note isn't always the lower one. "A chord shape on different areas of the fretboard is the same chord with different root." This is not correct, it's the same chord with a different inversion, and frequently with a different Bass note.

"Is it always true that first chord of the song is always the song's tonality? How can I be aware of changing of tonality other than relative major-minor switching?"
No. You will notice that most of the times the first chord of a song is the one that gives the key but there are some cases were it's not the first one. In this type of songs you will feel that the first chord isn't the one that has the overall feeling of the progression, and that every time that appears sound like a resolution.


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