0 0

4 Pages V  < 1 2 3 4 >  
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> Minor Pentatonic And Blues Scales
Eat-Sleep-andJam
post Jul 14 2007, 09:48 PM
Post #21


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 2.412
Joined: 23-February 07
From: New york
Member No.: 1.243



Ok so Scale= Guideline to play within through improv. ?



- John


--------------------
Join Me On the Lyrics Board !


"Find something worth dying for...



...And live for it"
-The Uncreator
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Andrew Cockburn
post Jul 14 2007, 10:40 PM
Post #22


Moderation Policy Director
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 10.452
Joined: 6-February 07
From: CT, USA
Member No.: 1.167



QUOTE (Eat-Sleep-andJam @ Jul 14 2007, 04:48 PM) *
Ok so Scale= Guideline to play within through improv. ?
- John


Yes, you can look at it that way though that is not all it is used for. Think of a scale as the artists palette of colours for a painting. What you make of it is up to you, but you choose the colors in the palette (or the scale) ahead of time.


--------------------
Check out my Instructor profile
Live long and prosper ...

My Stuff:

Electric Guitars : Ibanez Jem7v, Line6 Variax 700, Fender Plus Strat with 57/62 Pickups, Line6 Variax 705 Bass
Acoustic Guitars : Taylor 816ce, Martin D-15, Line6 Variax Acoustic 300 Nylon
Effects : Line6 Pod HD Pro, Keeley Modded Boss DS1, Keeley Modded Boss BD2, Keeley 4 knob compressor, Ibanez Weeping Demon Wah
Amps : Epiphone Valve Jnr & Head, Cockburn A.C.1, Cockburn A.C.2, Blackstar Club 50 Head & 4x12 Cab
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Eat-Sleep-andJam
post Jul 14 2007, 11:00 PM
Post #23


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 2.412
Joined: 23-February 07
From: New york
Member No.: 1.243



ok thank you, I just love theory so much right now. Should I but practicing all these minor scales and what not or some of the lessons here at Gmc ? tongue.gif



- John


--------------------
Join Me On the Lyrics Board !


"Find something worth dying for...



...And live for it"
-The Uncreator
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Andrew Cockburn
post Jul 14 2007, 11:14 PM
Post #24


Moderation Policy Director
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 10.452
Joined: 6-February 07
From: CT, USA
Member No.: 1.167



QUOTE (Eat-Sleep-andJam @ Jul 14 2007, 06:00 PM) *
ok thank you, I just love theory so much right now. Should I but practicing all these minor scales and what not or some of the lessons here at Gmc ? tongue.gif
- John


Both!


--------------------
Check out my Instructor profile
Live long and prosper ...

My Stuff:

Electric Guitars : Ibanez Jem7v, Line6 Variax 700, Fender Plus Strat with 57/62 Pickups, Line6 Variax 705 Bass
Acoustic Guitars : Taylor 816ce, Martin D-15, Line6 Variax Acoustic 300 Nylon
Effects : Line6 Pod HD Pro, Keeley Modded Boss DS1, Keeley Modded Boss BD2, Keeley 4 knob compressor, Ibanez Weeping Demon Wah
Amps : Epiphone Valve Jnr & Head, Cockburn A.C.1, Cockburn A.C.2, Blackstar Club 50 Head & 4x12 Cab
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Eat-Sleep-andJam
post Jul 14 2007, 11:38 PM
Post #25


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 2.412
Joined: 23-February 07
From: New york
Member No.: 1.243



^ My Brain blink.gif


What lessons would you recomend here Andrew that would correspond well with what im doing theory wise ?



- John


--------------------
Join Me On the Lyrics Board !


"Find something worth dying for...



...And live for it"
-The Uncreator
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Andrew Cockburn
post Jul 15 2007, 12:09 AM
Post #26


Moderation Policy Director
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 10.452
Joined: 6-February 07
From: CT, USA
Member No.: 1.167



QUOTE (Eat-Sleep-andJam @ Jul 14 2007, 06:38 PM) *
^ My Brain blink.gif
What lessons would you recomend here Andrew that would correspond well with what im doing theory wise ?
- John


To go with the pentatonic and blues scales, I can suggest no finer lessons than Gabriels Blues series smile.gif


--------------------
Check out my Instructor profile
Live long and prosper ...

My Stuff:

Electric Guitars : Ibanez Jem7v, Line6 Variax 700, Fender Plus Strat with 57/62 Pickups, Line6 Variax 705 Bass
Acoustic Guitars : Taylor 816ce, Martin D-15, Line6 Variax Acoustic 300 Nylon
Effects : Line6 Pod HD Pro, Keeley Modded Boss DS1, Keeley Modded Boss BD2, Keeley 4 knob compressor, Ibanez Weeping Demon Wah
Amps : Epiphone Valve Jnr & Head, Cockburn A.C.1, Cockburn A.C.2, Blackstar Club 50 Head & 4x12 Cab
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
rokchik
post Sep 5 2007, 11:31 PM
Post #27


Moderator - The Dark Canuck
Group Icon

Group: GMC Senior
Posts: 2.726
Joined: 22-March 07
From: The Great White North
Member No.: 1.395



Hey Andrew,

This may have been explained already but I can't seem to wrap my head around this concept at all. Root notes and the scale boxes...I know it's been explained to death...sorry unsure.gif . I kind of did things bass ackwards and had learned the Am pentatonic scale and boxes without really knowing the theory behind it or the actual notes I was playing....I know bad me, slap! Anyways now that I've recognized the error of my ways and have been trying to backtrack I sorta have myself all confused huh.gif Not sure if i'm really understanding the concept behind how the boxes are derived....or if what I think is going on is actually right. I'll try my best to explain.

Ok I know the formula is 32232 and regarless of what my root note is this will always be the formula for the minor Pentatonic scale but I'll use the G minor scale as my example.

G,Bb, C, D, F, G are the notes in this scale. So when going through the scale boxes, even though I don't always start or finish on G (root note) when moving through them, as long as I am using those notes, following the formula, I'm still in the G minor scale is that correct? (or whatever I choose as the root note for the scale I want to play)

And with regards to the boxes and working out the patterns,(again using G minor Pentatonic) is it fair for me to say that when you move to say the second scale box starting at Bb will the formula then become 22323? By this I mean the next note is still going to be C and then D so on and so forth so your still following the same formula just your starting point moved up one and that this will be true as you move throught the boxes and start on a different note from that scale? not sure if I explained that well or not.....hopefully you'll get what I'm trying to say biggrin.gif

thanks

rok
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
steve25
post Sep 6 2007, 12:26 AM
Post #28


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 1.197
Joined: 19-April 07
From: Wiltshire, England
Member No.: 1.626



QUOTE (rokchik @ Sep 5 2007, 11:31 PM) *
Hey Andrew,

This may have been explained already but I can't seem to wrap my head around this concept at all. Root notes and the scale boxes...I know it's been explained to death...sorry unsure.gif . I kind of did things bass ackwards and had learned the Am pentatonic scale and boxes without really knowing the theory behind it or the actual notes I was playing....I know bad me, slap! Anyways now that I've recognized the error of my ways and have been trying to backtrack I sorta have myself all confused huh.gif Not sure if i'm really understanding the concept behind how the boxes are derived....or if what I think is going on is actually right. I'll try my best to explain.

Ok I know the formula is 32232 and regarless of what my root note is this will always be the formula for the minor Pentatonic scale but I'll use the G minor scale as my example.

G,Bb, C, D, F, G are the notes in this scale. So when going through the scale boxes, even though I don't always start or finish on G (root note) when moving through them, as long as I am using those notes, following the formula, I'm still in the G minor scale is that correct? (or whatever I choose as the root note for the scale I want to play)

And with regards to the boxes and working out the patterns,(again using G minor Pentatonic) is it fair for me to say that when you move to say the second scale box starting at Bb will the formula then become 22323? By this I mean the next note is still going to be C and then D so on and so forth so your still following the same formula just your starting point moved up one and that this will be true as you move throught the boxes and start on a different note from that scale? not sure if I explained that well or not.....hopefully you'll get what I'm trying to say biggrin.gif

thanks

rok


The root note defines which key you're in. So where you've given an example of G minor pentatonic you're root note when starting the scale should be a G note. So for example if you were starting the scale on the E string you would start on the 3rd fret, because that's a G note. When you change keys it's a good idea to make sure that whatever you changing to that you hit that root note at first. There are 5 different boxes and all of them will have root notes. Find out where they are and concentrate on learning them so that you can start and land on the root notes. Andrew correct me if i am wrong here smile.gif
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
rokchik
post Sep 6 2007, 12:57 AM
Post #29


Moderator - The Dark Canuck
Group Icon

Group: GMC Senior
Posts: 2.726
Joined: 22-March 07
From: The Great White North
Member No.: 1.395



QUOTE (steve25 @ Sep 5 2007, 08:26 PM) *
The root note defines which key you're in. So where you've given an example of G minor pentatonic you're root note when starting the scale should be a G note. So for example if you were starting the scale on the E string you would start on the 3rd fret, because that's a G note. When you change keys it's a good idea to make sure that whatever you changing to that you hit that root note at first. There are 5 different boxes and all of them will have root notes. Find out where they are and concentrate on learning them so that you can start and land on the root notes. Andrew correct me if i am wrong here smile.gif


Thanks for the reply steve25.

I think I understand the root note business in that if your doing the G minor pentatonic scale for example you start with G then work through the formula 32232 to get the rest of the scale.

My big problem is understanding the boxes/patterns and how they are derived. I know the shapes but I'm trying to understand them. Like the second box shape for the G minor pentatonic scale startes on Bb...unless I have that mistaken too tongue.gif So your still going to follow the scale of G minor in that your next note will be C then D and so on. So what I guess I'm trying to get at....and I know my explaining isn't very good... is that do you adjust the formula within the scale your playing ie: G minor pentatonic, to the note the next box shape starts with? Again I hope that makes sense.....this is why I have myself so confused biggrin.gif

Or are you saying just learn where G is in the next box and work from there?....this seems easier. I think I'm turning a simple issue into a not so simple one laugh.gif

By the way Andrew sorry sad.gif I probably should have just posted this as a question on the board instead of the lesson.

This post has been edited by rokchik: Sep 6 2007, 01:13 AM
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
steve25
post Sep 6 2007, 01:25 AM
Post #30


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 1.197
Joined: 19-April 07
From: Wiltshire, England
Member No.: 1.626



QUOTE (rokchik @ Sep 6 2007, 12:57 AM) *
Thanks for the reply steve25.

I think I understand the root note business in that if your doing the G minor pentatonic scale for example you start with G then work through the formula 32232 to get the rest of the scale.

My big problem is understanding the boxes/patterns and how they are derived. I know the shapes but I'm trying to understand them. Like the second box shape for the G minor pentatonic scale startes on Bb...unless I have that mistaken too tongue.gif So your still going to follow the scale of G minor in that your next note will be C then D and so on. So what I guess I'm trying to get at....and I know my explaining isn't very good... is that do you adjust the formula within the scale your playing ie: G minor pentatonic, to the note the next box shape starts with? Again I hope that makes sense.....this is why I have myself so confused biggrin.gif

Or are you saying just learn where G is in the next box and work from there?....this seems easier. I think I'm turning a simple issue into a not so simple one laugh.gif


They all start on G in the G minor pentaonic scale. So for example lets take 1 box:

E--------------------------------3--6--3--------------------------------
B--------------------------3--6----------6--3---------------------------
G--------------------3--5----------------------5--3---------------------
D--------------3--5----------------------------------5--3---------------
A--------3--5-----------------------------------------------5--3--------
E--3--6------------------------------------------------------------6--3-

Here we start on the E string 3rd fret, that's the G note. Another root note would be on the 5th fret D string, you could also start there as that would still be in the key of G. However another box we have:

E----------------------6--8--6----------------------------------
B---------------6--8------------8--6---------------------------
G--------5--7-------------------------7--5---------------------
D--5--8-------------------------------------8--5---------------
A---------------------------------------------------8--5--------
E----------------------------------------------------------8--6-


Here we start on the 5th fret D for the next box. This is because that is where the root is. There's also a root note on the 8th fret B string. Hope this helps
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Andrew Cockburn
post Sep 6 2007, 01:43 AM
Post #31


Moderation Policy Director
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 10.452
Joined: 6-February 07
From: CT, USA
Member No.: 1.167



Steve explained it well ...

What you are talking about with the formulae is essentially correct but may run you into difficulties later both when looking at modes, and also when looking at major scale boxes.

The best way of looking at it is that the formula is always the same. But, different boxes start at different places in the formula. The root note of a box will always be the first note of the formula, no matter where you play it. This is essentially what you were saying but with a slightly different emphasis. smile.gif

In general, boxes are derived by picking a string (bottom E is good) and moving up one note in the scale for each box. This works fine for pentatonic, and you get 5 boxes. When you look at major and minor however, it gets a little wierd. You probably kow there are 5 boxes for major and minor - but this is a simplification, therer are really 7. Since we step through the scale when making boxes, though, a couple of boxes will be only 1 fret apart which is kind of overkill, so those 2 bopxes are dropped leaving 5 boxes that differe by 2 or 3 frets. Now, given that boxes are left out you can see why your approach might have been confusing when you went into major and minor. In that case, as always, you would figure out where in the box the root note was and always use your formula from that point.

The way you discussed using the formula by the way looks very similar to how modes are derived. I know you didn;t mean it that way, which is why I think this might confuse things later on, so very firmly, always think of the formula as starting on the roiot note, then figure out which position within the formula your pattern starts. If you do this with pentatonic you will get the same result, but for the right reason this time smile.gif.

This post has been edited by Andrew Cockburn: Sep 6 2007, 01:43 AM


--------------------
Check out my Instructor profile
Live long and prosper ...

My Stuff:

Electric Guitars : Ibanez Jem7v, Line6 Variax 700, Fender Plus Strat with 57/62 Pickups, Line6 Variax 705 Bass
Acoustic Guitars : Taylor 816ce, Martin D-15, Line6 Variax Acoustic 300 Nylon
Effects : Line6 Pod HD Pro, Keeley Modded Boss DS1, Keeley Modded Boss BD2, Keeley 4 knob compressor, Ibanez Weeping Demon Wah
Amps : Epiphone Valve Jnr & Head, Cockburn A.C.1, Cockburn A.C.2, Blackstar Club 50 Head & 4x12 Cab
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
rokchik
post Sep 6 2007, 08:41 AM
Post #32


Moderator - The Dark Canuck
Group Icon

Group: GMC Senior
Posts: 2.726
Joined: 22-March 07
From: The Great White North
Member No.: 1.395



Thanks Steve and Andrew very much!

I had myself all messed up with this and couldn't find my way back smile.gif I was giving myself a headache. I completely understand now....I sorta had it but just in a very round about way. Thanks again for all your help you guys.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
bart m
post Sep 17 2007, 05:07 AM
Post #33


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 65
Joined: 25-August 07
From: N.E. Misssissippi
Member No.: 2.606



does it matter what fingerings one uses for the minor pentatonic boxes...for instance, box 3 of the minor pent scale...what fingering should i use...
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
JVM
post Sep 17 2007, 05:12 AM
Post #34


Learning Roadie
*

Group: Members
Posts: 2.878
Joined: 2-June 07
From: Raleigh-Durham, NC
Member No.: 1.984



In general I'd say obviously start with the index, then if it's one fret away either slide the index or use the middle, if it's two use the ring, and if it's 3 use the pinky. 3nps scales are cool.


--------------------
Gear: Fender American Deluxe Stratocaster, Gibson '67 RI Flying V, Mesa Boogie F-30 112 combo, crazy pedals.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
bart m
post Sep 17 2007, 05:25 AM
Post #35


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 65
Joined: 25-August 07
From: N.E. Misssissippi
Member No.: 2.606



QUOTE (JVM @ Sep 16 2007, 10:12 PM) *
In general I'd say obviously start with the index, then if it's one fret away either slide the index or use the middle, if it's two use the ring, and if it's 3 use the pinky. 3nps scales are cool.


well, for box 3 of the minor pentatonic, i've been starting with the middle finger(finger #2)...that way, I don't have to slide one way or the other to reach a note...but I'm just not sure if this is the best way to do for an overall approach, the main problem being is that i'm not getting my hand use to stretching beyond 4 strings....I have small hands so i've always played this box this way, i'm just not sure if it's the best way though.
bart
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
JVM
post Sep 17 2007, 05:27 AM
Post #36


Learning Roadie
*

Group: Members
Posts: 2.878
Joined: 2-June 07
From: Raleigh-Durham, NC
Member No.: 1.984



I'm not the expert but I've always done boxes starting with the index - it might feel awkward sometimes but you get used to it.


--------------------
Gear: Fender American Deluxe Stratocaster, Gibson '67 RI Flying V, Mesa Boogie F-30 112 combo, crazy pedals.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Andrew Cockburn
post Sep 17 2007, 04:16 PM
Post #37


Moderation Policy Director
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 10.452
Joined: 6-February 07
From: CT, USA
Member No.: 1.167



QUOTE (JVM @ Sep 17 2007, 12:27 AM) *
I'm not the expert but I've always done boxes starting with the index - it might feel awkward sometimes but you get used to it.


Whateer works - I have tried both ways in the past and settled on sliding, and in fact sliding is more important for 3 notes per string scale which you might want to use later on, however, if it works and you are comfortble with it, stick with it!


--------------------
Check out my Instructor profile
Live long and prosper ...

My Stuff:

Electric Guitars : Ibanez Jem7v, Line6 Variax 700, Fender Plus Strat with 57/62 Pickups, Line6 Variax 705 Bass
Acoustic Guitars : Taylor 816ce, Martin D-15, Line6 Variax Acoustic 300 Nylon
Effects : Line6 Pod HD Pro, Keeley Modded Boss DS1, Keeley Modded Boss BD2, Keeley 4 knob compressor, Ibanez Weeping Demon Wah
Amps : Epiphone Valve Jnr & Head, Cockburn A.C.1, Cockburn A.C.2, Blackstar Club 50 Head & 4x12 Cab
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Spyle
post Oct 9 2007, 11:30 AM
Post #38


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 22
Joined: 2-October 07
Member No.: 2.924



So when practicing scales I should always start on a root note? I've always just started on the E string regardless of which box I'm in.

I assume it doesn't matter which note I switch boxes on? In one of Kristofer's pentatonic lessons he talks about being able to change boxes on every string.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Muris Varajic
post Oct 9 2007, 07:31 PM
Post #39


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 15.459
Joined: 22-June 07
From: Sarajevo,Bosnia
Member No.: 2.159



Best way is to practice boxes while switching them on different spots or strings.
Starting from E string is fine but try from another strings as well,
just to avoid common sounding of each box.


--------------------
Youtube
MySpace
Website



Album "Let It Out" on
iTunes
and CD Baby

Check out my video lessons and instructor board!

The Pianist
tune is progress,check it out!

"ok.. it is great.. :P

have you myspace? Can i to personalize this for you guy?"
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Andrew Cockburn
post Oct 9 2007, 07:36 PM
Post #40


Moderation Policy Director
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 10.452
Joined: 6-February 07
From: CT, USA
Member No.: 1.167



Regarding root notes, there is an explanation of this in my introduction to scales lesson here.


--------------------
Check out my Instructor profile
Live long and prosper ...

My Stuff:

Electric Guitars : Ibanez Jem7v, Line6 Variax 700, Fender Plus Strat with 57/62 Pickups, Line6 Variax 705 Bass
Acoustic Guitars : Taylor 816ce, Martin D-15, Line6 Variax Acoustic 300 Nylon
Effects : Line6 Pod HD Pro, Keeley Modded Boss DS1, Keeley Modded Boss BD2, Keeley 4 knob compressor, Ibanez Weeping Demon Wah
Amps : Epiphone Valve Jnr & Head, Cockburn A.C.1, Cockburn A.C.2, Blackstar Club 50 Head & 4x12 Cab
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

4 Pages V  < 1 2 3 4 >
Reply to this topicStart new topic
2 User(s) are reading this topic (2 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 


RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 30th October 2014 - 08:00 PM