Hello Muris,


Thanx for having me in the MTP. It feels great to be mentored by a great guitarist like you.

Well my name is Robert. I started playing guitar I think it was between my 12- 14 year. Now i am 44 already. ( life goes fast... when having fun..)

I started probably to impress girls No kindding

The reason I started playing is I heard Mark Farmer of Grand Fund Railroad, Alvin Lee of TYA and Ritchie Blackmore of Deep Purple. I wanted to learn that.
Later I heard Jimi Hendrix play and I loved his playing.

When I was younger I only loved hard rock & Metal band like Kiss, Judas Priest, Iron Maiden, Black Sabbath, UFO, Scorpions, Rush, Ted Nugent, THIN LIZZY, Michael Schenker.

But now I love all kind of music: funk (T.O.P.), blues (bb king Clapton, Jeff Heally, SRV, RobbenFord) , fusion, rock, disco, pop as long as there is good guitar in the song.

I never took guitar playing very serious when I was young I though that I didn' t have to practice. You had it in you or not (kinda black/white thinking) and I was spending lot of time in sport (Karate, soccer, ninjutsu)

But that has changed since I am playing in a few cover bands sine 1,5 year. ( Wish I was now 15 year old with GMC around.... ) I have tasted how it is to play for a few hundred people with a band, I was the lead guitarist, playing stuff I didn't know what I was playing when I improviced on a lead take.. I don't want to make mistakes on stage or when I am playing. I want to play in a the way like breathing or walking: do it natural not forced.

So that why I started looking for lessons: to learn it once an for all .

First I googled a bit and the I found GMC. Never thought there would be a site where your could wonderful lesson like these .

I take practising very serious since then.
But I have no knowledge of theory, scales, modes etc. So when Iimprovise I do it by ear not knowing what I am doing. Mostly it is minor pentatonic stuff. But it has no structure and therefore most of my phrasing is weak. That is what I think.

Since GMC I have been working to learn all the 5 minor pentat boxes. I think I have managed to learn them by hard but still when I improve with these boxes my worked isn' t that exciting as some of the instructor are doing with the same boxed. I am missing the salt to make them taste tasty.


My overall goal is to become a (good) all-round guitarist. I want to handle with confident blues, funk, (hard)rock, fusion, pop style of music.

Problem is where to start to become one. ( It is a long journey... I guess)but I don' t have a practice routine. But I play every day a few hours if possible.


my weak points and goals are:

- theory my goal: being able to put theory in practice: improvise without playing wrong notes and play beyond box 1

- weak phrasing : goal better phrasing and recall what your are playing I never seem to manage that

weak rhythm phrasing: Goal better rhythm in phrasing and placement

-weak structure in my solo: goal: play a structure solo and lear to make them myself

weak technique. Goal: basic sweeping, AP, legato, tapping.

-weak chord progression knowledge: Goal: being able to understand why a 3 chord song works and write simple songs

Other goals:
- learn about chord inversion
- chord relationship chord substitution maj- min ( C --> Am work okay)
- used modes in my solo's to spice up my range


Here are some recent takes for the rec program:







I have some recording of myself improvising if you like to have them to get some opinion just ask.

Well that is all for now. I am looking forward to be in a MTP by you, Muris.

Let start this journey... I am excited...so let go..

Cheers
Robert

Thanks for this great and full of info intro Robert, welcome to my MTP!!

However I WOULD appreciate a lot if you could also post
some of those improvised takes, just to see how it is working so far.

And smooth improvising is kind a ultimate goal for every serious musician
and that's why we're gonna focus a LOT on improvising an exploring the fretboard,
along with working on different styles, techniques etc.

What I really liked in your playing from what I've seen is that
you are not trying to push things just like that,
you tend to keep the same feel and calmness all the time
which is very smart and good thing to do.
Perhaps your current technique doesn't allow you to spice things up a little
but we'll fix that eventually.

So let's try with this slow and emotional piece in E minor.
http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/solo-guit...r-melodic-solo/
And here's a backing as well.
Click to view attachment
Perhaps you already played this lesson but never mind,
I would like to see you playing it for me
AND try to record few improvisations as well,
then we'll discuss about them and see the weak points, try to fix them etc.

Also if there are any other lessons from me that you're working on atm
please do let me know so we could cover those as well in similar way.

Now few things about theory.
How good is your knowledge in your opinion,
what do you know and what confuses you the most,
how is your understanding of modes etc?

Welcome once again and looking forward to hear from you soon.

Welcome aboard Robert. Just wanted to say hi to you. Pretty cool PRS you have there.

Hi there Muris,

I have be looking for my old improv's a thought there where on my old desk top. But apparently I have deleted them:couldn't bear to listen to them I guess . So I will drop an few new improv.in the next time

Well it is a good question (How good is your knowledge in your opinion,)

I have been thinking all day what to say. I can say that i have very basic knowledge.

1) I know basic chords are based on 1-3 5 interval
2) I am aware of maj and minor interval
3) I know maj scale formula (wwhwwwh: c-d-e-f-g-a-b-c-d) based on that I know how to make chord and extentions like Csus4= C-E-F-G)
4) I know that 6 interval in the major scale gets me to the relative minor (C-->A)
5) If I am in minor I know if i go up a 3th interval I end up with the relative major (Am--> C)
6) I know most songs are based on I V IV progression (C- G F)
7) I know if i play above progression I can use the C-maj scale to solo over but I mostly prefer to use the Am pentatonic. With C maj I have problems to play the right notes on the right spot to let it sound OK, with Am it seem easier.

8) I don't know what modes I can use in the C-F-G progression. In Basis I know what modes are. There are 7 modes with funny names, I can't recall (jet!!). Each mode starts on the next note using the same maj scale formula are but I don't know they by name and I never used them when I play (unless it is in a lesson on GMC) (They are aliens to me right now and I guess I am gonna meet them at this journy )

9) I also know the minor scale formula derived from the A-B-C-D-E-F-G-A: WHWWHWW
10) I also know if i don't see a sharp sign # the key of a song is in C/Am so
11) Most chord will be like:


Variations -
Scale I ii iii IV V vi vii
C major scale Cmaj7 Dm7 Em7 Fmaj7 G7 Am7 Bm7b5

12) If there is one # sign the key of the songs is G/Em ( if ther are more the one # sign I have to get a book to see what key a song is in. I don't know it by hard:

but i know this trick to figure it out:


13) I know next scale is always 5 th interval (C--> G) ( G-->D)
14) The note that will get # in the next scale is on the 4 th interval: C--F F become F# in G scale. So the 4 th interval C become C# in the next scale with is on the 5 interval and that is D.

That is my basic knowledge I can think of now.

I like the melody of the piece in E minor very much.
I has some tension in it, the notes combine perfect and i really like the pentatonic part very much.

What is makes it hard for me to play is the string skipping. I need to focus because my fingers are not on the right string. So it will take some time a can do that.

At the moment I am doing a tone relation lesson of Sinisa (http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/ls/tone_relations/) because the only REC I did where solo parts this lesson is a good combination between RHYTHM/Riffing.
After that I was planning to do your lesson on the MJ tribute part 2. There are many part to learn on that one.

Me and my cover band are planning a gig in Feb 2010 and we are planning to do a musical journey through time: start in the 56-60 and end up in present. Instead of doing the instrumental Santana piece I wanted to do your lesson instead, as a tribute to MJ. Off course I would have ask you for permission

So a long story I was. Time to practice

Question about this lesson:
1) I starts of in Em so the notes are :E F#/Gb G A B C D
That means that the chord that are used are:
Bm7 /Bsus, B--> V (5 th interval)
EM: I
AM: IV
Gmaj7: III
F#: II
Fmaj7;??? not on the E scal. How is that?

2) Starts off with Em arpeggio what intervals are used there?
3) Goes into Am arp what intervals are used there?
What makes these combination of interval make it sound so good?


Cheers Muris
Robert

p.s. these are lessons of yours I have done for the REC program:

steve style:


Rock in Bm:

Wow, great reply, well done Robert!

Ok, let me try to interact here by saying few words
on every mark that you have made above.

1) Yes, those ARE triads made of 3 notes, root, 3rd and 5th.
They can be major, minor, diminished augmented tho.
2) That"s good, however there are also diminished and augmented intervals, will talk about those later.
3) Formula was good but I have to correct you on Csus4 chord,
sus4 actually means "suspended 3rd, added 4th" so there's no E note at all, F takes its place.
4) Good.
5) Also good.
6) Indeed they are, in both major and minor keys that progression always works well,
tonic or I, subdominant or VI and dominant or V.
There's a reason for that, with those 3 triads we are covering the whole scale!
7) That's experience problem and with more playing in different keys it'll be solved.
8) There are 7 indeed and names are: Ionian (same as major scale), Dorian, Phrygian,
Lydian, Mixolydian, Aeolian (same as minor scale) and finally Locrian (rarely in use).
One thing tho, in order to figure out modes as soon as possible I'm asking you to
forget about the approach you mentioned "Each mode starts on the next note using the same maj scale formula..."
There's another way and much more efficient in practice imo, I'll explain it to you later on.
9) That was ok.
10) That is most likely correct unless it's a mode as a key.
11) Correct, and that chord formula works for all major keys as well.
12) No problem, you'll memorize them easily.
13) Yes, that would be circle of 5ths, scales with sharps.
There is also circle of 4ths, that's how we make scales/keys with flats.
First one (after C) is F, it has Bb.
Then we have Bb, with Bb and Eb inside etc.
14) There is another way to expect which note is gonna be with # in next scale but
nonetheless, that one you mentioned was also good.


Now to answer your questions about the lesson!
1) First of all, it's always F#, not Gb.
It does sounds the same but it's diatonic scale and we cannot have 2 notes in scale
staring with the same letter, like Gb and then G, has to be F# and G.
You remember how scale looks like written in notation?
Looks like a scale, each note in different spot in notation system.
And every spot starts with different letter as well.
Chord F you asked?
Yeah, that one is out of scale, taken from E Phrygian to spice things up a little.
And now its time to explain the approach for modes.
There is to need to look at Phrygian as 3rd degree in some major scale,
you would have to go 3 steps down, it's too much work and takes too much time imo.
Instead of that think of Phrygian as a minor scale with flat 2nd,
in E minor we have F# note while in E Phrygian we have F, that's all!
And because of that F note now we also have a new chord available, chord F.
2) Yeah, there is kind a broken Em chord played in lead.
actually it's Em7 if we look at first 4 notes.
Em7 arpeggio (or chord, which is the same) goes like this: E, G, B and D.
And what I did with it is that I inverted order of notes.
First I played root on A string, then 5th on D string (note , then I continued to ascending
the melody by playing 3rd on B string (note G) and finally 7th on high E (D note).
The same formula is applied in Am (Am7 arpeggio) but on different strings, staring from low E.

And yeah, those broken chords in solos do sound very sweet,
specially if you play them with wider intervals and not just note by note.
It's wider intervals what makes them sound that good.

Hello Muris,

That is also a great repaly. Thx.

I think I understood everything you wrote there.

I am working on the Em lesson an it is going better. I stared slow with every arp. And speeds up the tempo
Now I now the degree of the notes I will get better understanding of what I am playing ther and why it sounds good.

I will try to incorporate this technique in an improve it will drop in this tread.

I also will study the scales in the lesson.

First thing I noticed on the Em scale printed on the main page off the lesson is that if you start for the Low E string 5th fret it is almost Am scale apart for the F# oof course. If I look at it this way the next time I play in Gmaj I can use this picture in my head of the Am (which is Em) to recall what position to play.

It's exactly the same pattern or fingering as you noticed
and it works for all minor scales out there,
you just have to move the whole thing few frets up or down and you'll be playing
some other minor scale!
No worries, with enough work you'll be equally comfortable to play both in minor and major keys.

Hi Muris,

What is the best way to learn these scales?

What would your approach be?

There must be a way to cement those patters that have very much in common.

Second questions:

1) The only difference between the Em (natural=E F# G A B C D) and Em harmonic scale (E F# G A B C D#) is # 7 th interval? So it has another interval formula? And why is there a Em Harmonic; why was'n't the natural minor scale just enough?

2) E Phrygian= E F G A B C D. This is missing a #2 th interval, what happened to it? Does it has a interval formula? This looks like Am starting from the E note.

Cheers
Robert

p.s if I finish this lesson I would like to put in on the REC board. But I will let you judge them first okay?

Well, I like to see a scale within intervals all over the fretboard.

Lets stick with minor scale per example, first position, 3nps.
You have root, 2nd and 3rd on one string,
then goes 4th, 5th and 6th on another,
then 7th, root and 2nd on another string etc.
You need to visualize those intervals
but also it's very important to listen to them,
listening is crucial in a long term,
comes great with improvising, transcribing and everything.

So play it for a while, remember formula and fingering,
then move to 2nd position and do the same, then 3rd position etc.

All minor scales have same formulas,
after you REALLY figure out how one of them works and looks like over the fretboard
it'll be a piece of cake to play them all, even without looking at fretboard.

Same goes with major scales ofc, you can try the same method.

Once more, this is just a method, not a short cut cause there is no short cut,
you really need to spend some time playing those scales up and down to learn them properly.

E natural minor and E harmonic minor are indeed 2 different scales,
cause of the 7th degree which you mentioned, D becomes D# in harmonic minor.
And with that change the formula is changed as well,
now you have whole tone and a half between 6th and 7th degree,
in natural minor it was whole tone or whole step.
This 7th degree also brings us one VERY important chord in progression,
now we have major dominant, B chord.
In natural minor it was Bm chord, called minor dominant,
it also sound much softer compared to this B major chord.
And that's why I used E harmonic minor at the end of the lesson
putting this B major chord in progression,
to have a stronger cadence!
Most common cadence is I, IV and V.
Now play those chord in E natural and E Harmonic minor,
it would be Em, Am and Bm in natural minor,
Em, Am and B in harmonic.
You should be able to hear how this B chord strongly seeks resolve,
probably into root chord which is Em.


E Phrygian doesn't miss any interval
but it has different 2nd degree, F instead of F# as in natural minor.
And so the formula is changed as well,
for Phrygian it goes like this : H W W W H W W.
And if you invert first 2 letters in the formula, it's the same as minor scale formula,
change made my flat 2nd degree now reflects first 2 intervals inside the scale, nothing else.

You are right tho, it looks like Am played from E.
But it also looks like C major played from E etc.
Thing is, I asked you to forget about that approach!
Instead of that, compare it with E minor scale and realize the flat 2nd degree.
Em chord is our root chord in E Phrygian, C has no rule here, nor Am.

So in order to get a full use of modes you should first learn major and minor scale nicely,
of course you don't have to wait for that and then start learning modes, no way.
I'm just saying that you'll get most of the modes after you figure out minor and major scale,
after that it's just altering one note in major or minor scale to get a mode.
I explained to you how it works with Phrygian = minor scale with flat 2nd,
I'll also explain you all other modes as we meet them in MTP working on lessons.

Thx Muris for this great reply ,


I like your method of learning the scales. I will follow that approach.

Talk to you later.

Cheers
Robert

You're welcome,
let me know if you need further help with anything.

hello Muris

I am working on the Em lesson. Will send a mp3 take asap.

I will also make some improvisations so you know my abilities

What will be the next step?

Cheers
Robert

Sounds great!
But I would also appreciate a video as well, if possible!

As for next step, that pretty much depends of your takes,
I have to see and hear how it works for you
but I have several ideas, no worries.

Hello Muris,

I will provide a video as well.

It goes well. I can play the whole lesson by hard. But I don' t have the right speed jet.

If i speed up my fingers get crossed and I play the wrong strings. But I know I soon can play it at the right speed.

Then I will make a video for you.

And then we will see

Cheers
Robert

Looking forward to it!

Let me know if you would like some slower backing as well.

[quote name='Muris Varajic' date='Sep 8 2009, 02:52 AM' post='420494']
Well, I like to see a scale within intervals all over the fretboard.

Lets stick with minor scale per example, first position, 3nps.
You have root, 2nd and 3rd on one string,
then goes 4th, 5th and 6th on another,
then 7th, root and 2nd on another string etc.
You need to visualize those intervals
but also it's very important to listen to them,
listening is crucial in a long term,
comes great with improvising, transcribing and everything.

So play it for a while, remember formula and fingering,
then move to 2nd position and do the same, then 3rd position etc.

Hello Muris

Have some questions about this method:

I mean am I just starting on Low E ( root) the go to F# (2) and G (3)

from 4, to 5 and 6 on the A string

to 7 8 on the D string and then back to the root on the low E string

Or mix the intervals up like

Start on the E(root) then go to to 3, 6, 7

The go for the last 3 string in first position

second:
What are strong intervals or interval that sound nice if you play them after one another?

when I Play 1- 7 hamer to 8 1 ( low E - D E' E) that sound okay ( a bite like Fath no More )

Cheers
Robert

Well that depends of chords in progression.
But if you play over Em chord only (which is root chord)
then almost every single interval (note in a scale)
can be considered as a strong one.
I said almost every cause this depends of type of music,
in jazz it can be literally every note.
But in more "grounded" style not every note sounds as strong one.
However if you play arpeggios it would pretty much sound nice
so try with 1, 3, 5 , 7 etc cause that's how we build chords/arpeggios.

This was you second question, but what was the first one, I missed it?

Th Muris,

My first question was about the learning scales interval wise.
What is the most pratical kind of thing to do learn
like this:

from interval >> go to interval:
1 >>>>>>>>>2
2>>>>>>>>>3
3>>>>>>>>>4
etc

7>>>>>>>>>6
6>>>>>>>>>5
5>>>>>>>>>4
etc

so play the scale up-down-up-down

or do i mix it up

from interval >>go to interval:
1 >>>>>>>>> 4
4 >>>>>>>>> 6
3>>>>>>>>> 1
8>>>>>>>>> 7

I hope i made myself more clear here.

Cheers
Robert

Ohh, I got it now, all good.
For starters people usually learn scale playing it
note by note, up and down, no mixing.
12345678-87654321.
Then you move it to another position and do something like
23456782-28765432 etc.
This helps you to learn how scale is built and where to press on the fretboard
in order to stay in same scale.

But the mixing you mentioned is a must, sooner or later.
Scale is just a group of 7 notes that we use for composing solos, songs and everything else,
so you do have to mix notes somehow at the end
if you want your solo or melody to sound interesting,
playing scale in solo note by note up and down is not that musical,
it's used for learning and memorizing shapes mostly.

Hello Muris,

Okay to memorize it I will play first position down-up: 12345678-87654321.
Then move up to 2e 3e 4e 5e position

There are always 5 positions for minor & Major scale right? after the 5th the fist position starts over again is hat right?

Not really, 5 boxes are for pentatonic scales cause they have 5 tones.
In diatonic scales you have 7 positions as there are 7 notes in scale
and each position starts from different note.

Hello Muris

Aha penta= 5 that is why there are only 5 positions.

Here we have 7 notes = 7positions. Good to notice that!!



I am planning a video tonight but like to train with a slower version first. Can you send me a mp3 with 40 en 50 bpm?

Thx

Cheers
Robert

Hi Muris

This is my first take of the lesson.

There are a few notes still not well.

Somehow I get nervous during the recording and I make so unexpected mistakes like missing notes

I have to play it again a few times to nail it down.

Hi Muris

Here are my improv on this lesson. I recorderd them all in one take.

Click to view attachment

Here is improve nr 2:

Click to view attachment

Nr 3
Click to view attachment

Nr 4:
Click to view attachment

Mistake are for granted

Yeah, quite logical!



Well yeah, I see this IS first take after all
but I must say that you did it pretty good!
Timing was almost good all the way except 0:21(bit early on bend),
0:32 (need to keep straight 32ths all the time)
and finally 0:36 (this lick over F chord was pretty out of time but in tempo, you kind a "changed it").
But 0:49 made my day tho, you used your thumb for B note on low E,
many students don't do that, they use index instead,
much appreciated!

Now, there is one thing that I would like you focused on,
it's duration of longer notes at the end of each lick.
Those notes should last as much as possible, right until new lick.
Of course you can't hold them long enough to have it all connected
since there are many position shifts but try to hold them as much as possible.
And when you hold them longer there's enough time to apply more
vibrato to each of those notes.
Vibrato is very important in this kind of playing tho,
makes guitar sing!



There's no place for laugh here imho,
I heard few very nice ideas here AND your takes were more and more
tight and organized going from 1 to 4.

I do have few pointers for you tho,
it's concerning those couple out chords we discussed earlier, Fmaj7 chord and F#.
As I told you, that Fmaj7 chord is taken from E Phrygian
which is the same as E natural minor EXCEPT F# note, it becomes F in Phrygian.
So you can either try with F arpeggio or simply land on strong notes,
note for F chord are F, A and C.
F# is more tricky to follow scale wise tho
and that's why I simply played one note over the chord,
note was A# which is 3rd in F# chord.
So you can either land on F#, A# or C#, those notes make F# chord.
And there's B chord at the end, you should use E harmonic minor there
cause of D# note, B chord is made of B, D# and F# notes.
You played natural Em using D note.

Timing is VERY important in music,
even when we improvise we should be aware of timing and how we put it together,
how tight it is, accurate etc.
However I have a way to fix those tiny errors with timing when you improvise.
Can you write in Guitar Pro?
Would be great if you could try to tab one of those takes,
you'll easy notice when timing isn't tight
cause those situations are horror to tab.

thx Muris for your feedback.

I will o make a new improv with the theory you gave me. I will tab it out in GP.

Also I will improve the lesson keep 32th over the Lick in E. Focus on the lick in F at 0.36 And yes make notes longer.

Awesome, looking forward to it.

Hi Muris

Here is my impro nr 5 Click to view attachment

I tried to hold the notes longer & paid attention to the timing and melody line (avoiding wrong notes)

The hard thing is to land on string notes because i don't know the scales by hard.

Still some issues regarding strong notes but timing was far better and more tight!

This progression isn't that easy to play along,
you must be aware of every chord in backing and trust me,
many more skilled players would have troubles catching everything nicely!
It's very easy to play same scale over and over without thinking of chords at all,
what we have been doing here is pushing things on another level, no worries!

Could you find me few errors in this take, strong notes wise?

And btw, I mean longer notes in lesson, not in your improvisations,
you can improvise any way you want!

Hello Muris

I agree that this progression is hard to play along with.

This was my strategy/structure:
Try to follow chord notes or at east notes in the scale as long as possible. (Which is still hard if you can't recall them yet: so I tried to 'follow' what I hear and hope it is a good note)


Let analyze where I got wrong

0.00 - 0.08 I played notes on the Em scale in the Em chord

00.90-00.12 I played a note somewhere of the Am

00.13- went to D note on the low E string and played some D arp notes

0016 at GM7 i think I played Em natural scale notes over that Chord.

00.20 at Em I think I played Em natural chord notes starting on the high E string

00.24 -00.28 can't say for sure but I still play Em, while there is a F# Chord. So I should stay/land on a note on that is in the chord which is F# A# or C# That where I go wrong

00.32 at Am do some high Am scale notes and get ready to land on Em scale on the EM chord

00.37 at FM7 I am def not played FM7 arp I think it was Am scale notes not sure about that.

00.41 at F#m7/5- Notes of the chord are F# A C# E. I didn't play arp notes for sure I thing I tried some Em natural scales notes. I better could have used the harmonic minor scales there:

00.46 at Bsus4 (B-E-F#) and B (B-D#-F#) I think the notes came from Em natural scale notes but I must have take the E Harmonic (E-F#-A-B-C-D#)instead which has all the chord notes.

Finally I land on the Em scale notes at the Em ending chord

Hello Muris

Here is my take 2 of the lesson


The vid:



and the mp3-take:Click to view attachment

Cheers
Robert

That was one fine analyzing Robert, thanks!

Over Fmaj7 chord you actually played natural Em scale which has F# note.
F#m7/-5 is made of these notes tho : F#, A, C (not C#, C note is -5 actually) and E,
so you can play natural Em there.

You did good job and I would like you to always question yourself like this,
no matter if it's for MTP, jam with friends or anything,
more you Q&A yourself the more you learn!




Ohh, that was much better, timing was almost perfect
and you fixed duration of long notes, well done!
I hope you'll continue working on this one to polish it even better.

Now I would like to see how your picking actually works in action.
Here's a lesson and BTs, 100, 80 and 60 bpm.
http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/solo-guit...picking-thirds/
Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment


And I would really like to see your picking hand in video
so try to aim and shoot it nicely.

[quote name='Muris Varajic' date='Sep 16 2009, 02:26 AM' post='423880']
That was one fine analyzing Robert, thanks!

Over Fmaj7 chord you actually played natural Em scale which has F# note.
F#m7/-5 is made of these notes tho : F#, A, C (not C#, C note is -5 actually) and E,
so you can play natural Em there.

You did good job and I would like you to always question yourself like this,
no matter if it's for MTP, jam with friends or anything,
more you Q&A yourself the more you learn!


Thanks Muris

I like to do some more exercises about what scale to play on some progession. Now the scales where already in your lessons so that was quite easy for me.

But now when there is a another progession how can I find the scales I can use in that progression on my own. Now I am used to go for Minor Pentatonic. I have learned the 5 box since I have joined GMC.

Do you have some more so I can get this on my own?


and yes I will work on this lesson I like it very much

Ah new lesson. Great
I will make some nice shoots when I am ready.

See you later

Cheerio
Robert

It works with analyzing, as we did for Luke lesson!
You can tell me progression you have
and I'll be pleased to explain you all possible options scale wise
including pentatonic ofc!

Thx Muris,

I will give a progression and tell you what I think what the possible scales will be so you can correct me if I am wrong or not complete. Is that an idea

I will check the Luke lesson what we analyzed there so I will understand the approach.


See you.
Cheers
Robert

Sounds great!

I'm leaving for US in 2 hours and in next 11 days I might be less active than usually
but I'll to my best to keep in touch daily!

Alright Muris,

I will analyse lesson Luke lesson. If I have problems or questions I will let you know.

Have a save trip and a great stay in the US.

Where are your staying?

I have enough exercises I can work on so no problem I you can't contact as usually

Your are having your birthday in the US at 24 sept so happy Birthday... already If you not on-line as you are normally are.

Cheers
Robert

Thanks Roger!!

I'm staying in Chicago for few days, after that we go to Saint Louis
and then I'll go to Kentucky to visit cousins.
On 25th we play in Chicago once again and then in Jacksonville on 26th,
we have a flight back home on 28th tho.

Hello Muris,

yesterday I did analyse the luke lesson but when I was almost at the end I unfortunate I hit the wrong button and the browser shut down.

So here is my retry

The key is Bb because I see 2 flat signs. It relative minor is Gm.

The chords derived from this key are:

I ii iii IV V vi vii VIII
w w h w w w h
Bbmaj Cmin Dmin Ebmaj Fmaj Gmin Adim Bb'maj

The chords used in this lesson are ( follow the above with some added notes):
Gm, Eb7M, Cm7,Gm, F, Bb7M, Fm7 Bb7add13, A7Sus4, D79-, D, Gm7/9



The Bb maj scale contains: Bb C D Eb F G A (Major Scale Formula: 2 2 1 2 2 2 1)

The G minor scale: G, A, B♭, C, D, E♭, F, G



Chords used in the lesson >>>>> Scales to use at this chord
G m
Gminor, intervals: 1,b3,5....................................G Natural Minor (2-1-2-2-1-2-2)
notes: G,Bb,D ...............................................G,A,Bb,C,D,Eb,F

.....................................................G Pentatonic Minor (1,b3,4,5,b7)
.....................................................G,Bb,C,D,F

.....................................................Bb Major
.....................................................Bb,C,D,Eb,F,G,A

Ebmaj7 intervals: 1,3,5,7..........................................Eb Pentatonic Major
notes: Eb,G,Bb,D................................................Eb,F,G,Bb,C

..........................................G Natural Minor
...............................................G,A,Bb,C,D,Eb,F

Cm7 intervals:1,b3,5,b7..........................................G Natural Minor
notes: C,Eb,G,Bb ...........................................G,A,Bb,C,D,Eb,F

.....................................................G Pentatonic Minor (1,b3,4,5,b7)
.....................................................G,Bb,C,D,F

..................................................... C Pentatonic Minor
.............................................. notes:C,Eb,F,G,Bb

F Major intervals: 1,3,5..........................................A Natural Minor
notes: F,A,C notes: .....................................notes: A,B,C,D,E,F,G

..........................................G Natural Minor
............................................G,A,Bb,C,D,Eb,F


Bb7/13intervals: 1,3,(5),b7,13.........................................C Natural Minor
notes: Bb,D,(F),Ab,G ............................................notes: C,D,Eb,F,G,Ab,Bb


A 7sus4 intervals: 1,4,5,b7 .........................................C Pentatonic Major
notes: A,D,E,G ...........................................notes: C,D,E,G,A

.........................................A Pentatonic Minor
...........................................notes: A,C,D,E,G

.........................................A Natural Minor
....................................notes: A,B,C,D,E,F,G

D7-9 intervals: 1,3,(5),b7,b9 ........................................G Harmonic Minor
notes: D,F#,(A),C,Eb .......................................... notes:G,A,Bb,C,D,Eb,F#


Fm7 is a strange chord in this progression it should be Fmaj7

Fm7 intervals: 1,b3,5,b7 ........................................C Natural Minor
notes: F,Ab,C,Eb ............................................notes: C,D,Eb,F,G,Ab,Bb

..........................................G Natural Minor
............................................G,A,Bb,C,D,Eb,F

....................................................G Pentatonic Minor (1,b3,4,5,b7)
.....................................................G,Bb,C,D,F

Summary: For most of the chords the scales that can be used are



G Natural Minor
G,A,Bb,C,D,Eb,F

G Pentatonic Minor
G,Bb,C,D,F


Cheers
Robert

That was really great reply Robert, good job!

Now let me explain you few things.
First of all, 2 flats are included in Bb but the key is Gm,
they are relatives as you said but Gm is our root chord
and that's why we are in a key of Gm.

There were some issues with F chord,
you mentioned Am scale and F chord is included in Am scale as well
but we are still in a key of Gm and Am scale would clash big time!
So you can use Gm scale, Gm pentatonic and F major pentatonic
over F chord.

Fm7 chord and B7/13 are chords taken from 2nd key in this lesson,
key of Eb, it lasts not so long tho, we have only 3 chords in key of Eb,
Fm7 (2nd degree), Bb7/13 (5th degree) and Eb (root).
Over those chords you can play Eb major scale.

Did I miss something?

Hello Muirs,


So thx for the explanation.

I used the circle of Fifth/Four (is that a correct way to find the key?) to find the key but I didn't look at the root chord.

I wasn't aware of the second key Eb, was thinking in Bb the whole time. How could I have been aware of that apart from reading the intro at the lesson?

I like to do some more exercieces to nail this. I like to analyse "Smoke on the water" from Deep Purple. I know this track a long time and like to dig it now.

Are there some golden rules (I mean that cover 90% off the stuff) like: "if the key is X-maj you can play X-maj scale and X-mode-scale?

Talk to you later.

Well we could have been aware of it by listening, when Fm7 chord appears it's pretty obvious
that something is going on, ofc we need more experience and training to figure out what is it,
that's why I gave you this task, with more examples you'll get better and better!!

Tho you can analyze Smoke On The Water and share your thoughts with me,
I'll be glad to help you with it.

And there are rules but not that strict, it's more like logical ways to approach
which scale to use.
It has lot to do with style and type of music as well which is notes choice,
you are aware that, per example, in Blues we mostly play pentatonic scales only
simply because they sound perfect for that style eventho the whole progression
is driven from either major scale, minor scale or even some mode!!

As I said, we need to analyze more examples and learn from them,
that;s the best way imo.

Hello Muris,
Yes I agree that I need to analyze more examples and learn from them.

You said "when Fm7 chord appears it's pretty obvious that something is going on" that is interesting because it was not that obvious for me. I thought that this was the 5 th interval of the Bb scale instead of the 2th interval of the Eb scales.

Will send analyze of SOTW of DP later.

Cheers
Robert

Yes I said that but I also said that we need more experience to realize it!

Looking forward to your SOTW analyze tho.

Hi Muris,

Here it is

Smoke on the water Deep Purple


Key: Gm
Chords used:
Intro: kinda chord riffing like: G Bb C and G Bb C#
Verse: Gm (arpeggio) on the 1th, 5 th and 8th interval (G, D, G')
F (arpeggio) on the 1th, 5 th and 8th interval ( F, C, F')

Chorus: C/ Ab/ Gm

Solo: Gm/ /Cm/ / repeated 5 times
F/ / Gm/ / / /

scales that can be played over the solo here are:


When Gm (G-Bb-D)is played:
1) G Minor,
intervals: 1,2,b3,4,5,b6,b7
notes: G,A,Bb,C,D,Eb,F

2) G Pentatonic Minor
intervals: 1,b3,4,5,b7
notes: G,Bb,C,D,F

3) When Cm (C-Eb-G) is played same as 1 (G Minor) and 2 (G Pentatonic Minor) but also

C Natural Minor,
intervals: 1,2,b3,4,5,b6,b7
notes: C,D,Eb,F,G,Ab,Bb


C Pentatonic Minor
intervals: 1,b3,4,5,b7
notes: C,Eb,F,G,Bb

4 When F (F-A-C) is played same as 1 (G Minor) and 2 (G Pentatonic Minor)

That was pretty good!!

Actually Mr.Blackmore plays Gm an Gm pentatonic in that solo
most of the time and so your additional scale options are huge plus!

Btw, what would you use if you would play solo over chorus progression,
C, Ab and Gm?

He Muris,

C/ Ab/ Gm

Both C & Gm fit in a Gm chord progression

Ab is a strange chord in the Gm progression. I think I see that as a passing chord.


Chord notes are......scales to use.............Scalenotes
C= C-E-G>............G Major/E minor.........G,A,B,C,D,E,F#
............................C Major/A minor.........A,B,C,D,E,F,G

Chord notes are......scales to use.........Scalenotes
Ab= Ab-C-Eb..........G Phrygian............G,Ab,Bb,C,D,Eb,F

Chord notes are.......scales to use..............Scalenotes
Gm= G-Bb-D ..........G Pentatonic Minor.....G,Bb,C,D,F
..............................G Minor.....................G,A,Bb,C,D,Eb,F

The singer is singing these notes over the chords:

C chord: notes: E,D,C which is in the G Major/E minor & C Major/A minor

Ab chord: Eb, C this refers to Gm, G Phrygian

Gm chord: G, Bb, F, G which is in the G Pentatonic Minor & G Minor

Ohh, I'm very glad that you figured out G Phrygian over Ab chord, spot on!

However you had some issues with C chord but the solution is quite simple
and here's how it goes.
We are in key of Gm mostly and our root chord is Gm, obviously.
Now, you related C chord with G major and E minor scales but there's no need to do that.
Simply paste C chord over Gm scale (it's our root) and find out what is the difference,
the only difference is E note in C chord while we have Eb note in Gm scale.
Eb is 6th degree in Gm scale, tho minor 6th.
And what do we get when we use major 6th (E) instead of minor 6th (Eb)?
We get Dorian mode, G Dorian.
And that;s the only difference between minor scale and Dorian,
minor scale has minor 6th while Dorian has major 6th, everything else is identical.
And once again a single chord pointed us to different scale.

Hi Muris,

Maybe you can give me some advice about the Em solo lesson.

As you know I did the REC for this lesson and I the instructors said that I was ahead of the beat.

I think I understand what went wrong:

1) I recorded the lead when I was playing along with the main video lesson and I was exactly on time with that lesson. Otherwise I would have done a retake. So I was satisfied with the lead track. During that take my webcam was running also

2) After recording this lead part I mixed it with the backing track. There I have had an issue. Maybe I didn't synch the backing track with the lead track I have just recorderd for 100%. I don't have another reason why I in time playing along with the lesson ( I supposed that is also 58 bpm) and not in the video.

Does this make sense?

I will remix the lead and the backing.

Here I have remixed the recording I did for the REC Click to view attachment


I changed the lead track so it starts now a little later. In the main mix (in the video) the lead started a little earlier which makes it off synch I suppose. What do you think of this one?

Cheers

It was not about sync but more about connection with backing track and groove.
Sometimes we play like in a hurry when we're not 100% sure with the piece that we play.
With more time and more experience you'll get over it, no worries.