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Pedja Simovic
Hi Paiva!

This is place where I will give you assignments and upload videos. You will do the same starting tonight. Bookmark it, subscribe to it as it will be easier to follow when I post new things in!

Paiva
Ok cool Pejda can't wait wink.gif
Pedja Simovic
Lets get started Paiva!

Your guitar CV was very specific. You stated your intention was to improve your improvisation (especially over hard chord progressions), improve your harmony knowledge as well as rhythm (phrasing).

For your 1st assignment I have decided to ask you to analyze Jazz standard Blue Bossa.

Here is your 1st assignment :

- Analyze Jazz standard Blue Bossa.
- I expect to see where change of key happens as well as II V I.
- If there are cadences in specific sections, please indicate them (like turnarounds or modal cadence).
- Once you are done with this, we will proceed to 2nd assignment which will be improvising approaches available over this same tune.
- You can submit this via text but I would like you to do this in guitar pro and write all the notes using notes section!

Time limit for your 1st assignment is week from today (12th of September)!


Here is Kenny Durham's lead sheet version. Don't worry about the intro, focus only from A section to the end!

Let me know if you have any questions, I am here to help always smile.gif
Paiva
Hey Pedja! Cool assignment!

What I can tell by quickly looking at it and I don't really know what do really want from this but here we go!

Starts of with Cminor doing this cadence that If I consider Cminor as the tonal center it would be like I IV II (right?) than this chord appears G7+. It has one avoid note in the Cminor scale and that would be A# because that would be like a minor 3rd and this a major 3rd chord, the rest of the notes (the sharp 5th the minor 7th and of course the G) are all in Cminor scale and the next 2 bars are again C minor chord so until here I can use C minor scale and I just have to be careful to not hit the a# on the g7+.

Than the key changes. There is a major II V I progression resolving on Dbmaj so on this 4 bars I have to use Db major scale. And than it appears again the G7+ chord and than it repeats the same process.

So what do I have to say more?
Pedja Simovic
QUOTE (Paiva @ Sep 5 2009, 01:19 AM) *
Hey Pedja! Cool assignment!

What I can tell by quickly looking at it and I don't really know what do really want from this but here we go!

Starts of with Cminor doing this cadence that If I consider Cminor as the tonal center it would be like I IV II (right?) than this chord appears G7+. It has one avoid note in the Cminor scale and that would be A# because that would be like a minor 3rd and this a major 3rd chord, the rest of the notes (the sharp 5th the minor 7th and of course the G) are all in Cminor scale and the next 2 bars are again C minor chord so until here I can use C minor scale and I just have to be careful to not hit the a# on the g7+.

Than the key changes. There is a major II V I progression resolving on Dbmaj so on this 4 bars I have to use Db major scale. And than it appears again the G7+ chord and than it repeats the same process.

So what do I have to say more?



Great to hear you like the assignment!

Lets fix some things from start.

C min F min D min7b5 G7. Where do these chords come from? Is it all one tonal center? Is this a cadence of a sort? What happens after Dmin7b5 G7? Goes back to C min? Is this some turn around also?

smile.gif
Paiva
QUOTE (Pedja Simovic @ Sep 5 2009, 12:22 AM) *
Great to hear you like the assignment!

Lets fix some things from start.

C min F min D min7b5 G7. Where do these chords come from? Is it all one tonal center? Is this a cadence of a sort? What happens after Dmin7b5 G7? Goes back to C min? Is this some turn around also?

smile.gif



I do think so C min is the 6th degree of the Eb major scale. Fmin could be the II and Dmin7b5 the VII degree right?

And yes it goes back to C minor so that should mark the end of the cadence? Going back to the root?
Pedja Simovic
QUOTE (Paiva @ Sep 5 2009, 01:36 AM) *
I do think so C min is the 6th degree of the Eb major scale. Fmin could be the II and Dmin7b5 the VII degree right?

And yes it goes back to C minor so that should mark the end of the cadence? Going back to the root?


Your answers were partially correct!

C minor is not 6th but rather 1st degree. The reason for this is we don't have any sort of Eb major cadence but rather C aeolian (harmonic minor really) cadence!
C min is then I min, F min is IV min, D min7b5 is IImin7b5 and G7 is V7 !
D min7b5 to G7 to C min is II V I in C minor. Also it is turnaround (look at the end of the piece, same trick is used to get back to the beginning of the piece).

Now proceed to more chords smile.gif
Paiva
Click to view attachment


Here it is! tell if something is missing Pedja
Pedja Simovic
It is starting to look good Paiva. However, I was looking for more simplified and clear approach. I will instead ask you direct questions which will lead you to the right path wink.gif

1) What is happening in first two bars? What kind of harmonic rhythm is used compared to rest of the piece and why ?
2) What is happening in bars 3,4,5 and 6? What key are we in ? Was this some sort of cadence and if so which mode/key did it come from compared from 1st bar ?
3) What is happening in bars 7 and 8?
4) What is happening in bars 9 10 11 and 12 ? Did original key of the piece change? Do we have some cadence in those bars? What is happening with harmonic rhythm in that section ?
5) What is happenng in bars 13 14 15 and 16? What key are we in ? Do we have some cadence in those bars and if so where does it come from? What is happening with harmonic rhythm in that section ?


If you respond to all these questions you will do great man.

Waiting for your response!
Paiva
Hey Pedja sorry for not asked this earlier I've been out most of the time. What do you mean my harmonic rhythm? Who much does a chord last? Like Cminor lasts 2 bars and the other chords just one?
Pedja Simovic
QUOTE (Paiva @ Sep 8 2009, 11:17 AM) *
Hey Pedja sorry for not asked this earlier I've been out most of the time. What do you mean my harmonic rhythm? Who much does a chord last? Like Cminor lasts 2 bars and the other chords just one?


Exactly Paiva!
Because C minor last twice as long it creates resting point in listeners ear. Go on further...
Paiva
On bars 3 4 5 6 the key stays the same (Cminor) each chord lasts 1 bar. And they are IV II and V.

On bars 7 and 8 C minor lasts again for 2 bars creating the resting point that you talked about

On 9 10 11 12 the key changes there is a II V I in Dbmajor. On 9 10 there is a regular one chord per bar but than the rote note lasts for 2 bars 11 and 12

On bars 13 14 15 16. It goes back to C minor doing a II V I in this same key (bars 13 14 15). In this case the rote only lasts 1 bar. Then on bar 16 we have 2 chords (the harmonic rhythm changes here) and they are both II and V because then it repeats and in the beggining theres the I again



Pedja Simovic
Now this is starting to look like serious stuff Tiago. Well done man I like it. You could go ahead and tell me some extra things like by what interval modulations appear in this piece? I am also wondering about last two bars, why did they do II V in the last bar instead of sticking to I for 2 bars?
Paiva
Well I guess there is an interval modulation here. When the key changes to Dbmajor the rote goes up an half step higher.

And I think they did that trick on the last bar because if they ended up with the rote on the last 2 bars the song would be solved. It would give a finished feel. So they do a II V. And the V gives the exact some opposite it "askes" for the rote. So this gives a unfinished feel wich of course lets you to repeat the song.

Pedja Simovic
QUOTE (Paiva @ Sep 9 2009, 12:25 AM) *
Well I guess there is an interval modulation here. When the key changes to Dbmajor the rote goes up an half step higher.

And I think they did that trick on the last bar because if they ended up with the rote on the last 2 bars the song would be solved. It would give a finished feel. So they do a II V. And the V gives the exact some opposite it "askes" for the rote. So this gives a unfinished feel wich of course lets you to repeat the song.


Almost everything here is correct!
Remember we were in C minor key so you should relate modulation to minor key as well. In this case we went up to Eb minor7, which is up by what interval?
You were right about last bar. They did II V because they wanted to create turnaround and get the piece back to beginning to repeat endlessly smile.gif

Just one more question!

Whats happening with Dbmaj7 and Dmin7b5 - notice something? smile.gif
Paiva
Oh so that means it goes an minor 3rd higher.

And I do notice that the rote is the only note that really changes between that 2 chords. But I don't know if it is there that I should be looking
Pedja Simovic
QUOTE (Paiva @ Sep 9 2009, 12:49 AM) *
Oh so that means it goes an minor 3rd higher.

And I do notice that the rote is the only note that really changes between that 2 chords. But I don't know if it is there that I should be looking


Excellent!
Modulation is up minor 3rd because we don't know at that point if Eb minor will be our new key center or if it will do quick II V I. This is because we were used to being modally in C minor and our ear unprepared jump to Eb minor recognizes as a new key! wink.gif

You noticed great Tiago. 3 out of 4 notes are the same, only the root in the bottom is different by half step! This should help you a lot later when improvising over this one smile.gif


Ok, you can now get to part 2 of the assignment - write out soloing approaches over this piece!
Pedja Simovic
Tiago, how are soloing approaches going? Do you need any help with them?

I can get you started and tell you what I expect in your list (just couple of things)

- Possible pentatonic scale
- Possible arpeggio(s)
- Possible scale/mode

This is the least I expect smile.gif

Lets see what you got!
Pedja Simovic
Tiago,

How are soloing approaches coming along?
If you need any help with it please let me know.

I will be out of my town today, back tomorrow night. Will respond to all your questions then!

Pedja
Paiva
Sorry Pedja for not being active. School starting and lots of stuff going on. I will get it on tomorrow and saturday. So for each bar or bars (if nothing changes) I have to say what arpeggio and scale could I use and effects?
Pedja Simovic
QUOTE (Paiva @ Sep 17 2009, 11:47 PM) *
Sorry Pedja for not being active. School starting and lots of stuff going on. I will get it on tomorrow and saturday. So for each bar or bars (if nothing changes) I have to say what arpeggio and scale could I use and effects?


No problem Tiago, I just want us to be as frequent as possible with updates on here. If you have extra school work , let me know so I don't put too much pressure on you smile.gif
Regarding the assignment, you should try to name Pentatonic scale , regular scale/mode and arpeggio(s) that would work. If you could do this, that would be awesome. I will of course add my options to it later but this is very important for you to do it. It allows me to see how you think of improvising approaches when you see Jazz changes with modulation!
Paiva
Click to view attachment

Here it is Pedja
Pedja Simovic
Tiago you did good. I have questions for you , so we can make sure where and how you got these solutions.

1) Why does C minor pentatonic work over F min7 chord? Where did you get that from, explain please.
2) Dmin7b5 followed by G7 comes from which key? Which chord scale should we play over it? Little correction, I would prefer if you called that chord Minor 7th flat 5 rather than half diminished (we will get to that later on why I prefer it wink.gif
3) What about minor 6th pentatonic over Dmin7b5? What about minor 7 b5 pentatonic? What are the notes for it?
4) Why and how did you pick A minor pentatonic over G7#5 harmony? Explain please.
5) Why G Phrygian over G7#5? Isn't that chord supposed to sound like tension releasing into C minor?
6) How did you figure out Ab melodic minor , G super locryian (or altered scale) over G7#5 ? (great work wink.gif
7) Why Eb Aeolian over Eb min7 when we have Ab7 after it followed by Dbmaj7 (II V I pattern) ?
8) Why Bb minor pentatonic over Ab7 chord? How did you get this one and why do you think it would work?


I expect your response regarding all these questions. After that I will extend your analysis and give you more options that you can use over this tune.

Let me know if you need any help!

Pedja
Paiva
Click to view attachment

Sorry for just doing 1 assigment per week. I will try to do 2 per week but it's hard with so little free time
Pedja Simovic
Good responses so far Paiva. I will elaborate fully on them tomorrow as I have some corrections for you. Make sure you read my posts on theory and harmony board in the meanwhile so you can relate to what I will say tomorrow wink.gif
Pedja Simovic
Ok Paiva, here are my responses regarding yours smile.gif

1) C minor pentatonic works over F minor pentatonic because they both come from one key first of all. C minor belongs to F natural minor and F minor belongs to C natural minor. In other words they can be used in numerous ways to cover. Lets look at the notes of F minor 7th chord : F Ab C Eb. Now lets look at the F and C minor pentatonic

F minor pentatonic : F Ab Bb C Eb (F)
C minor pentatonic : C Eb F G Bb ©

What do you notice from the above? It should be very obvious but I will let you give me an answer to that question!

2) Dmin7b5 and G7 come from Harmonic minor. Min7b5 followed by Dom7 chord up a perfect 4th always comes from Harmonic minor key. So you would naturally use modes from C harmonic minor over these two chords, if you wanted it to sound in key. If you on the other hand wanted to be free with it, you could use D Aeolian b5 mode (F melodic minor) and G altered scale (Ab melodic minor). So you see these two modes have these chords in them but have different notes that produce outside tension sounding melodies!

3) The reason why Minor 6 and Minor 7b5 pentatonics work both is because they are connected and related, they just start from different root. D min7b5 pentatonic is = D F G Ab C (D) . F min6 pentatonic is F G Ab C D (F).
So as you see both pentatonics have exact some notes they just start on different scale degree. This is very useful to know when you are improvising as both of them bring different soloing options and sounds.

4) Whenever you have Altered Dominant chord, you can play minor pentatonic up a minor third! So lets say you got G7#5, you can do Bb minor pentatonic. Bb min pentatonic is : Bb Db Eb F Ab (Bb). If you compare these notes in relation to G as root of the chord you get Bb = #9 , Db = #11 or b5, Eb = b13 or #5 and Ab = b9! So you get a lot of tension sounds by going up a minor 3rd and doing minor pentatonic. Keep that in mind and use it !

5) As I mentioned in number 4, whenever you have Altered dominant chord it is good to do tensions and outside sounds. G Phrygian would not work well because it belongs to same key as C Aeolian. That doesn't create any tensions but rather gives us inside sound which we don't want in this case.

6) Great explanation for Super locryian or altered scale smile.gif

7) I wouldn't advise using Aeolian when you know you have V and I followed after it. That automatically clarifies that you should use some sort of II V I approach in soloing. Keep in mind that common choice for II is Dorian, for I is Ionian or Lydian but for V we got loads of cool options depending on what tension(s) we want to bring up!

8) Again same trick as we used over G altered dominant chord. Here we got Ab7 so you can go up a minor 3rd and do minor pentatonic from that root.


Hope these explanations are clear Tiago. Let me know if you have any questions and then we can continue with assignments!
Paiva
I don't have any Questions Pedja. All clear smile.gif

Oh and on question 1 both pentatonics have notes that belong to the Cminor. The 2 notes that miss C minor aeolian are on F minor pentatonic. And 2 notes that are missing for F dorian on the minor pentatonic are on the C minor pentatonic Scale.
Pedja Simovic
QUOTE (Paiva @ Sep 30 2009, 05:30 PM) *
I don't have any Questions Pedja. All clear smile.gif

Oh and on question 1 both pentatonics have notes that belong to the Cminor. The 2 notes that miss C minor aeolian are on F minor pentatonic. And 2 notes that are missing for F dorian on the minor pentatonic are on the C minor pentatonic Scale.


Awesome Tiago!

Now we can get to your 3rd assignment.

I want you to take Blue Bossa and record yourself improvising over it for at least 2 choruses through the whole tune. In that improvising I would like you to use soloing approaches we covered in your 2nd assignment wink.gif

I can help you with backing track but ideally I would like you to do backing track for Blue Bossa as well !

Let me know if you have any questions or need any help!

Paiva
Cool Pedja 2 things.

I don't think I'm going to be able to do the drums and the bass part of the backing track. I'll happily do the guitar parte of course.

And can I record just audio?
Pedja Simovic
You can record just audio and guitar for time being. I would like to hear your improvising with rhythm guitar first, then we can expand it and talk about bass and drums wink.gif
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