Full Version: Rack System Vs. Tube Heads
GMC Forum > Discussion Boards > VINTAGE GMC > Community Activities and Tutorials > Ask an Instructor > More instructors > Muris Varajic > Gear (Muris)
hey muris, i was wondering how long you have been using your current live rig. your tone is amazing. that said, are you satisfied with everything? since i heard your tonal diversity, i have been considering a rack system instead of my 100w tube heads. i have read reviews on practically all of your gear, but i would like to hear from someone that i have actually heard/enjoyed. particularly the prophecy and the 2:90. did you try any other pre/poweramps on your way to deciding on your current rig? anyway, just looking for some info from someone whom i know knows what their talking about.
Thanks for asking!!
Well,I've had Prophecy since 2001 I think.Before 2:90 I had Two Fifty Mesa power amp,also in use with Prophesy.
Great one as well but I just needed more watts,that's all.
About rack system,I think much important stuff is to have Midi option while storing presets etc.
Prophesy is Tube preamp with FXs and has great Midi support.
I wanted to have TriAxis as well but I found it hard to use with expression(as general unit's output volume) pedal routed via Midi.
Prophesy does that job with 127 moves while Triaxis has only 20,with is not what I was looking for.
Maybe I'll take TriAxis and G-Force(which I had few years ago) in near future,just as a another rack setup...
Tube heads are ok but you're limited with sound options.
Again,it still depends of what you're going to play...
Hope this helps a bit
Well,I've had Prophecy since 2001 I think.Before 2:90 I had Two Fifty Mesa power amp,also in use with Prophesy.
Great one as well but I just needed more watts,that's all.
About rack system,I think much important stuff is to have Midi option while storing presets etc.
Prophesy is Tube preamp with FXs and has great Midi support.
I wanted to have TriAxis as well but I found it hard to use with expression(as general unit's output volume) pedal routed via Midi.
Prophesy does that job with 127 moves while Triaxis has only 20,with is not what I was looking for.
Maybe I'll take TriAxis and G-Force(which I had few years ago) in near future,just as a another rack setup...
Tube heads are ok but you're limited with sound options.
Again,it still depends of what you're going to play...
Hope this helps a bit
QUOTE (muris @ Aug 14 2007, 07:11 PM) 
Thanks for asking!!
Well,I've had Prophecy since 2001 I think.Before 2:90 I had Two Fifty Mesa power amp,also in use with Prophesy.
Great one as well but I just needed more watts,that's all.
About rack system,I think much important stuff is to have Midi option while storing presets etc.
Prophesy is Tube preamp with FXs and has great Midi support.
I wanted to have TriAxis as well but I found it hard to use with expression(as general unit's output volume) pedal routed via Midi.
Prophesy does that job with 127 moves while Triaxis has only 20,with is not what I was looking for.
Maybe I'll take TriAxis and G-Force(which I had few years ago) in near future,just as a another rack setup...
Tube heads are ok but you're limited with sound options.
Again,it still depends of what you're going to play...
Hope this helps a bit
Well,I've had Prophecy since 2001 I think.Before 2:90 I had Two Fifty Mesa power amp,also in use with Prophesy.
Great one as well but I just needed more watts,that's all.
About rack system,I think much important stuff is to have Midi option while storing presets etc.
Prophesy is Tube preamp with FXs and has great Midi support.
I wanted to have TriAxis as well but I found it hard to use with expression(as general unit's output volume) pedal routed via Midi.
Prophesy does that job with 127 moves while Triaxis has only 20,with is not what I was looking for.
Maybe I'll take TriAxis and G-Force(which I had few years ago) in near future,just as a another rack setup...
Tube heads are ok but you're limited with sound options.
Again,it still depends of what you're going to play...
Hope this helps a bit
Interesting ... I'm thinking for the future now, but one thing I want to build into one of my tube amps is some midi support so you can switch presets without compromising the tone at all - I was pondering this on the way to a meeting this morning and have a few ideas. But for interest, what would you want in the midi support? My gizmo would allow you to store a number of presets, each preset consisting of exact positions for all the knobs and switches - after that I'm not sure what else you would need. Don;t some tube amps have this?
QUOTE (muris @ Aug 15 2007, 12:11 AM)
Thanks for asking!!
Well,I've had Prophecy since 2001 I think.Before 2:90 I had Two Fifty Mesa power amp,also in use with Prophesy.
Great one as well but I just needed more watts,that's all.
About rack system,I think much important stuff is to have Midi option while storing presets etc.
Prophesy is Tube preamp with FXs and has great Midi support.
I wanted to have TriAxis as well but I found it hard to use with expression(as general unit's output volume) pedal routed via Midi.
Prophesy does that job with 127 moves while Triaxis has only 20,with is not what I was looking for.
Maybe I'll take TriAxis and G-Force(which I had few years ago) in near future,just as a another rack setup...
Tube heads are ok but you're limited with sound options.
Again,it still depends of what you're going to play...
Hope this helps a bit
Well,I've had Prophecy since 2001 I think.Before 2:90 I had Two Fifty Mesa power amp,also in use with Prophesy.
Great one as well but I just needed more watts,that's all.
About rack system,I think much important stuff is to have Midi option while storing presets etc.
Prophesy is Tube preamp with FXs and has great Midi support.
I wanted to have TriAxis as well but I found it hard to use with expression(as general unit's output volume) pedal routed via Midi.
Prophesy does that job with 127 moves while Triaxis has only 20,with is not what I was looking for.
Maybe I'll take TriAxis and G-Force(which I had few years ago) in near future,just as a another rack setup...
Tube heads are ok but you're limited with sound options.
Again,it still depends of what you're going to play...
Hope this helps a bit
ive been looking at the prophecy 2. is this the same as you have, or did they stop making it? rocktron website doesnt have it, nor could i find it on ebay. i cant find where it says that the prophesy 2 has any tubes in it. did they stop making the tube model?
As far as i know Prophesy II is just a newer version of Prophecy and i was also thinking about getting one in the future!
QUOTE (misterj @ Aug 15 2007, 05:55 AM)
ive been looking at the prophecy 2. is this the same as you have, or did they stop making it? rocktron website doesnt have it, nor could i find it on ebay. i cant find where it says that the prophesy 2 has any tubes in it. did they stop making the tube model?
Prophesy 2 is the same unit as Prophesy 1,it only has some signature presets...
IMO,that's not much useful unless you have same guitar,power amp,cabinet etc as the artist himself...
If your amp would offer that Andrew,I MUST HAVE one!!
And if it's dry amp without EFX,you don't need anything else in Midi support.
Just add some processor that supports Midi as well in EFX loop and that's it.
QUOTE (muris @ Aug 15 2007, 01:08 AM)
Prophesy 2 is the same unit as Prophesy 1,it only has some signature presets...
IMO,that's not much useful unless you have same guitar,power amp,cabinet etc as the artist himself...
If your amp would offer that Andrew,I MUST HAVE one!!
And if it's dry amp without EFX,you don't need anything else in Midi support.
Just add some processor that supports Midi as well in EFX loop and that's it.
IMO,that's not much useful unless you have same guitar,power amp,cabinet etc as the artist himself...
If your amp would offer that Andrew,I MUST HAVE one!!
And if it's dry amp without EFX,you don't need anything else in Midi support.
Just add some processor that supports Midi as well in EFX loop and that's it.
Hmm - I really don't think it would be too hard from an electronics perspective - the only part I don;t have an answer for yet is replacement of a potentiometer with a device or circuit that can vary its resistance based on a digital signal. One possibility would be a Light Dependant resistor and an LED with varying mark space ratio, but there has to be a better way, I'll do some research. The key point is that the control electronice mustnt interact with the tube circuit in any way at all ... I could even build it so it could be added to existing amplifiers I think.
Ok, its a long term project but I think it is a good idea - love the idea of switching FX and amp voicing all at the same time - could be really cool!
Looking forward to it mate!!
As I told you last night,please keep me updated Andrew!
As I told you last night,please keep me updated Andrew!
So andrew, if you built this midi device, would you be able to hook it up to your own footswitch and switch between presets and effects as well?
Actually,trick is in preamp.
Tube heads have preamp and amp section together while in rack setups it's usually splited.
Now,amp section normally stay untouched while preamp goes through changes.
Those changes are not that are not that big if preamp has one-two-three or four channels but if you want about 100 presets to store inside the same preamp and change them via Midi,it requires more job.
When you have that done,it's easy to connect EFX unit to it and run it together,by Midi OUT/Through or som.
And yeah,they are some tube heads on the market with full Midi,must check them for sure!!
Tube heads have preamp and amp section together while in rack setups it's usually splited.
Now,amp section normally stay untouched while preamp goes through changes.
Those changes are not that are not that big if preamp has one-two-three or four channels but if you want about 100 presets to store inside the same preamp and change them via Midi,it requires more job.
When you have that done,it's easy to connect EFX unit to it and run it together,by Midi OUT/Through or som.
And yeah,they are some tube heads on the market with full Midi,must check them for sure!!
QUOTE (muris @ Aug 15 2007, 04:37 AM)
Actually,trick is in preamp.
Tube heads have preamp and amp section together while in rack setups it's usually splited.
Now,amp section normally stay untouched while preamp goes through changes.
Those changes are not that are not that big if preamp has one-two-three or four channels but if you want about 100 presets to store inside the same preamp and change them via Midi,it requires more job.
When you have that done,it's easy to connect EFX unit to it and run it together,by Midi OUT/Through or som.
And yeah,they are some tube heads on the market with full Midi,must check them for sure!!
Tube heads have preamp and amp section together while in rack setups it's usually splited.
Now,amp section normally stay untouched while preamp goes through changes.
Those changes are not that are not that big if preamp has one-two-three or four channels but if you want about 100 presets to store inside the same preamp and change them via Midi,it requires more job.
When you have that done,it's easy to connect EFX unit to it and run it together,by Midi OUT/Through or som.
And yeah,they are some tube heads on the market with full Midi,must check them for sure!!
As Muris says, you could do both at once if the midi pedal was up to it. MIDI has facility for channels and program chang messgaes, you could set your amp up as once channel and the effect as another and have them work together, your pedal sending the appropriate messages to each device.
QUOTE (Andrew Cockburn @ Aug 14 2007, 11:11 PM)
Hmm - I really don't think it would be too hard from an electronics perspective - the only part I don;t have an answer for yet is replacement of a potentiometer with a device or circuit that can vary its resistance based on a digital signal. One possibility would be a Light Dependant resistor and an LED with varying mark space ratio, but there has to be a better way, I'll do some research. The key point is that the control electronice mustnt interact with the tube circuit in any way at all ... I could even build it so it could be added to existing amplifiers I think.
Ok, its a long term project but I think it is a good idea - love the idea of switching FX and amp voicing all at the same time - could be really cool!
Ok, its a long term project but I think it is a good idea - love the idea of switching FX and amp voicing all at the same time - could be really cool!
Apologies Muris - don't want to side track the issue or babble on on your sub-forum.
But (always a but
)... Andrew long time since I did electronics but what about using a more simple DA convert before the potentiometers rather than an LDr/LED array? Just a thought - and probably wrong - electronics isn't a strong point of mine (or as my wife would say 'have you any strong points Tony?'
).Cheers,
Tony
ps also, quite a few tube amps with midi - H and K and Engl amps spring to mind plus the new Marshall...
QUOTE (tonymiro @ Aug 15 2007, 07:01 PM)
Apologies Muris - don't want to side track the issue or babble on on your sub-forum.
But (always a but )...
But (always a but
)...No worries Tony,be my guest!!
QUOTE (tonymiro @ Aug 15 2007, 01:01 PM)
Apologies Muris - don't want to side track the issue or babble on on your sub-forum.
But (always a but )...
Andrew long time since I did electronics but what about using a more simple DA convert before the potentiometers rather than an LDr/LED array? Just a thought - and probably wrong - electronics isn't a strong point of mine (or as my wife would say 'have you any strong points Tony?' ).
Cheers,
Tony
ps also, quite a few tube amps with midi - H and K and Engl amps spring to mind plus the new Marshall...
But (always a but
)... Andrew long time since I did electronics but what about using a more simple DA convert before the potentiometers rather than an LDr/LED array? Just a thought - and probably wrong - electronics isn't a strong point of mine (or as my wife would say 'have you any strong points Tony?'
).Cheers,
Tony
ps also, quite a few tube amps with midi - H and K and Engl amps spring to mind plus the new Marshall...
The reason I suggested LDRs (perhaps opto isolators would work here too) is that I want this to be a drop-in replacement for a variable resistor both for retro fitting, and to keep any of the digital stuff far far away from the analog path. But, I am totally open to suggestions, so if I have missed something here maybe you could PM me and we can continue this gear head discussion in private and not corrupt this thread further
You're not corrupting at all guys but if you wanna some privacy,that's fine tho
QUOTE (muris @ Aug 15 2007, 05:28 PM)
You're not corrupting at all guys but if you wanna some privacy,that's fine tho
I'm fine either way, just didn't want to bore you all
QUOTE (Andrew Cockburn @ Aug 15 2007, 05:03 AM)
Interesting ... I'm thinking for the future now, but one thing I want to build into one of my tube amps is some midi support so you can switch presets without compromising the tone at all - I was pondering this on the way to a meeting this morning and have a few ideas. But for interest, what would you want in the midi support? My gizmo would allow you to store a number of presets, each preset consisting of exact positions for all the knobs and switches - after that I'm not sure what else you would need. Don;t some tube amps have this?
Thank you Andrew
My Hughes and Kettner Switchblade has this exactly, 128 presets including digital effects that's added anaolg to the signal... somehow. Select a MIDI preset and it remembers all the knob settings and indicates their value with a led (if you turn the knob it will lit up when you reach the spot)
It has a master volume and and a separate master volume for the preset, meaning that the MIDI preset sound has also a set volume which stands in relation to the other presets. Then a master master that you can adjust to bedroom or arena rock volumes while the MIDI preset master still keeps the volume-relation.
QUOTE (MickeM @ Aug 15 2007, 06:34 PM)
Thank you Andrew My Hughes and Kettner Switchblade has this exactly, 128 presets including digital effects that's added anaolg to the signal... somehow.
Select a MIDI preset and it remembers all the knob settings and indicates their value with a led (if you turn the knob it will lit up when you reach the spot)
It has a master volume and and a separate master volume for the preset, meaning that the MIDI preset sound has also a set volume which stands in relation to the other presets. Then a master master that you can adjust to bedroom or arena rock volumes while the MIDI preset master still keeps the volume-relation.
My Hughes and Kettner Switchblade has this exactly, 128 presets including digital effects that's added anaolg to the signal... somehow. Select a MIDI preset and it remembers all the knob settings and indicates their value with a led (if you turn the knob it will lit up when you reach the spot)
It has a master volume and and a separate master volume for the preset, meaning that the MIDI preset sound has also a set volume which stands in relation to the other presets. Then a master master that you can adjust to bedroom or arena rock volumes while the MIDI preset master still keeps the volume-relation.
SOUnds very cool - couple of good ideas to use there - I like the LED lighting up when you get to the spot
QUOTE (MickeM @ Aug 16 2007, 12:34 AM)
Thank you Andrew My Hughes and Kettner Switchblade has this exactly, 128 presets including digital effects that's added anaolg to the signal... somehow.
Select a MIDI preset and it remembers all the knob settings and indicates their value with a led (if you turn the knob it will lit up when you reach the spot)
It has a master volume and and a separate master volume for the preset, meaning that the MIDI preset sound has also a set volume which stands in relation to the other presets. Then a master master that you can adjust to bedroom or arena rock volumes while the MIDI preset master still keeps the volume-relation.
My Hughes and Kettner Switchblade has this exactly, 128 presets including digital effects that's added anaolg to the signal... somehow. Select a MIDI preset and it remembers all the knob settings and indicates their value with a led (if you turn the knob it will lit up when you reach the spot)
It has a master volume and and a separate master volume for the preset, meaning that the MIDI preset sound has also a set volume which stands in relation to the other presets. Then a master master that you can adjust to bedroom or arena rock volumes while the MIDI preset master still keeps the volume-relation.
Ohh yeah ,Switchblade...almost to forgot
I listened to some demos at theirs website,sounds really good.
Thanks MikeM
I'm thinking about to buy the Prophesy, but it's a bit expensive, hehe, so I don't know if I end bying the Chameleon 2000... anybody knows if the Chameleon is a good rack ??
(of course I know Prophesy is better, but how much better?)
(of course I know Prophesy is better, but how much better?)
QUOTE (Juan M. Valero @ Aug 22 2007, 04:02 AM)
I'm thinking about to buy the Prophesy, but it's a bit expensive, hehe, so I don't know if I end bying the Chameleon 2000... anybody knows if the Chameleon is a good rack ??
(of course I know Prophesy is better, but how much better?)
(of course I know Prophesy is better, but how much better?)
Can't help with the Chameleon but I ma thinking about a Prophesy too ...
QUOTE (Juan M. Valero @ Aug 22 2007, 10:02 AM)
I'm thinking about to buy the Prophesy, but it's a bit expensive, hehe, so I don't know if I end bying the Chameleon 2000... anybody knows if the Chameleon is a good rack ??
(of course I know Prophesy is better, but how much better?)
(of course I know Prophesy is better, but how much better?)
I tried Chameleon 2000 once,years ago Juan.
As far as I can remember,Chameleon 2000 in not a tube preamp,am I right?
And it's not only about tube but about other features as well.
I shall need to try it again to notice real difference between C 2000 and Prophesy
but I guess there IS some.
Another question about the Prophesy... Has it got a loop to conect other effects? for instance an Equalizer or a delay rack.
(Excuse me I don't know exactly how to translate my doubt :|)
(Excuse me I don't know exactly how to translate my doubt :|)
Looks like we're all gonna be on Prophesy soon... I want to get one too..
And all that because of Muris.
We shoudl all be endorsed by Rocktron! :-)
And all that because of Muris.
We shoudl all be endorsed by Rocktron! :-)
QUOTE (Wallimann @ Sep 8 2007, 06:55 AM)
Looks like we're all gonna be on Prophesy soon... I want to get one too..
And all that because of Muris.
We shoudl all be endorsed by Rocktron! :-)
And all that because of Muris.
We shoudl all be endorsed by Rocktron! :-)
Yeah, it's a great tool !!! welcome to RocktronMasterClass XD
Muris, have you got any rear pic of your rocktron ?? I searched it in internet but I can't found it
Ahh,no I don't have it really..
But it has EFX sends/returns,no worries,you can loop it any time
Hey,you have it right David!!
Maybe a letter to Rocktron from Kris.
But it has EFX sends/returns,no worries,you can loop it any time
QUOTE (Wallimann @ Sep 8 2007, 06:55 AM)
Looks like we're all gonna be on Prophesy soon... I want to get one too..
And all that because of Muris.
We shoudl all be endorsed by Rocktron! :-)
And all that because of Muris.
We shoudl all be endorsed by Rocktron! :-)
Hey,you have it right David!!
Maybe a letter to Rocktron from Kris.
QUOTE (muris @ Sep 8 2007, 02:37 AM)
Ahh,no I don't have it really..
But it has EFX sends/returns,no worries,you can loop it any time
Hey,you have it right David!!
Maybe a letter to Rocktron from Kris.
But it has EFX sends/returns,no worries,you can loop it any time
Hey,you have it right David!!
Maybe a letter to Rocktron from Kris.
Let me know how you like them guys - I am wavering on a Rocktron, but also thinking about a Bogner Ecstacy ...
QUOTE (Andrew Cockburn @ Aug 15 2007, 04:35 AM)
As Muris says, you could do both at once if the midi pedal was up to it. MIDI has facility for channels and program chang messgaes, you could set your amp up as once channel and the effect as another and have them work together, your pedal sending the appropriate messages to each device.
the only problem with that is I dont speak MIDI very well and tend to not be able to get the most out of the processor assigning presets
You can sometimes get someone nice to send you their midi or sysex file if you post a request on the right forum dogman. Saves having to look through the midi code tables and some people actually seem to enjoy writing stuff like these files 
. I get MMC files for my console that way .
Cheers,
Tony
Edit - spelling - duh
and some people actually seem to enjoy writing stuff like these files . I get MMC files for my console that way .Cheers,
Tony
Edit - spelling - duh
QUOTE (Andrew Cockburn @ Aug 15 2007, 10:25 PM)
The reason I suggested LDRs (perhaps opto isolators would work here too) is that I want this to be a drop-in replacement for a variable resistor both for retro fitting, and to keep any of the digital stuff far far away from the analog path. But, I am totally open to suggestions
Dont know if it's still an issue, but Maxim has some solder in choises:
http://www.maxim-ic.com/pl_list.cfm/filter/dp
QUOTE (Twibeard @ Nov 8 2007, 02:55 PM)
Dont know if it's still an issue, but Maxim has some solder in choises:
http://www.maxim-ic.com/pl_list.cfm/filter/dp
http://www.maxim-ic.com/pl_list.cfm/filter/dp
Thanks I'll check these out - my immediate concern is that they seem to be limited to 5v but I may have misread that
QUOTE (Andrew Cockburn @ Nov 8 2007, 09:49 PM)
Thanks I'll check these out - my immediate concern is that they seem to be limited to 5v but I may have misread that
Mmm - yes they are probably limited by the supply-voltage. There is a 24V version, but I dont know how much you need.
http://datasheets.maxim-ic.com/en/ds/DS1808.pdf
QUOTE (Twibeard @ Nov 8 2007, 04:44 PM)
Mmm - yes they are probably limited by the supply-voltage. There is a 24V version, but I dont know how much you need.
http://datasheets.maxim-ic.com/en/ds/DS1808.pdf
http://datasheets.maxim-ic.com/en/ds/DS1808.pdfNot quite sure myself to be honest - some pots should be ok in this range, but valve circuits routinely have 300+ volts running around inside, I'd have to do some calculations to find out the voltage drop across some of these places. Food for thought though, thanks!
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.