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lcsdds
Welcome Jer. smile.gif Go ahead and read the first post in the main thread and also read about the first weeks assignments in that thread as well. Let me know if you have any questions. Please keep all your posts in this thread so I can keep everything clean and easy to navigate in the main thread. Great to have you aboard and LETS ROCK!. smile.gif
opeth.db
Woohoo!
jer
Jer 36 yrs old. Husband, Dad, Friend, Metalhead!!!!!

IT’S NEVER TOO LATE TO BUCKLE DOWN AND ACTUALLY LEARN TO PLAY!

Right?

RIGHT!!!!!

My story isn’t that much different than many other that I’ve read here. I’ve been playing off and on for years. Almost 20 years. Yet I would get smoked by guys who have been playing for 1 year under the right teacher. For the most part I’m self taught. I’ve dabbled in a few different lesson programs but didn’t stick with any of them. The most I’ve ever accomplished via any real study was my run through the MTP pilot program with Can (Enforcer). That went VERY well and I’m happy to be back here and working with more MTP students and instructors.

As a fulltime husband, dad, friend, employee, etc I don’t have hours and hours to play guitar. It’s not my only hobby and I wouldn’t be happy if it was. I like lots of things and that wont change. What I do need though is direction and a plan that will work for ME. To keep my playing moving forward. I’m not in a big hurry. I play on spending at least another 60 years on this planet, (if the rest of humanity doesn’t blow it up first) so I have time. As long as I am moving forward I’ll be succeeding. It’s a journey. One that I have the patience for.

I play guitar in a progressive metal band as well. We’re currently un-named. I hold down the rhythm guitar slot and am trying to get into writing but that’s been a real challenge….

I’ve always appreciated the right notes at the right time. Feel. Soul. Emotion. Gripping. These are the words that I’d use to describe the most meaningful pieces. Solos that make you tell everyone in the car to shut up so you can hear it.

Some of my favorite lead guitar bits.



Judas Priest (Glenn Tipton) “Beyond The Realms of Death”

Solo starts at 3:04

To me this kind of solo is just the best. Lots of feeling. Cool licks. Follows and fits the song perfectly. Not too much, not too little.





Opeth (Mikael Akerfeldt) ”Windowpane”

Solo at 1:20 and 5:16

Just gorgeous. Again, heaps and heaps of emotion. How can you not stop and listen to this. All the right notes….





Bruce Dickinson (Roy Z) “Gates of Urizen”

Fill at 1:15

Solo stats at 2:28

Melodic.





1-What is your level of theory knowledge? – basic. I understand it but haven’t done much application of it.

Do you know your diatonic and pentatonic boxes? – Some. I have learned them before. But I easily forget them since I don’t use them.


Do you know your triads? – not really. I have learned them probably 4-5 times now but didn’t use it. Don’t use it = lose it.



2-Do you know how to count rhythms along with a metronome? - yes

Do you practice with a metronome? No. And I know I should.

3-If you could play any lesson on GMC what would it be? I don’t know. I don’t really have a specific piece of music in mind. My goal isn’t to be able to mimic others. But create my own awesomeness!

4-Give me a brief introduction about yourself and what you are hoping to get out of this MTP program. A foundation for continued learning. Learning what works for ME. So I can continue my journey.



For the record. Going forward I will refer to the metronome as the "KAZ-BOX".

tongue.gif
lcsdds
QUOTE (jer @ Feb 25 2009, 04:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Jer 36 yrs old. Husband, Dad, Friend, Metalhead!!!!!

IT’S NEVER TOO LATE TO BUCKLE DOWN AND ACTUALLY LEARN TO PLAY!

Right?

RIGHT!!!!!

My story isn’t that much different than many other that I’ve read here. I’ve been playing off and on for years. Almost 20 years. Yet I would get smoked by guys who have been playing for 1 year under the right teacher. For the most part I’m self taught. I’ve dabbled in a few different lesson programs but didn’t stick with any of them. The most I’ve ever accomplished via any real study was my run through the MTP pilot program with Can (Enforcer). That went VERY well and I’m happy to be back here and working with more MTP students and instructors.

As a fulltime husband, dad, friend, employee, etc I don’t have hours and hours to play guitar. It’s not my only hobby and I wouldn’t be happy if it was. I like lots of things and that wont change. What I do need though is direction and a plan that will work for ME. To keep my playing moving forward. I’m not in a big hurry. I play on spending at least another 60 years on this planet, (if the rest of humanity doesn’t blow it up first) so I have time. As long as I am moving forward I’ll be succeeding. It’s a journey. One that I have the patience for.

I play guitar in a progressive metal band as well. We’re currently un-named. I hold down the rhythm guitar slot and am trying to get into writing but that’s been a real challenge….

I’ve always appreciated the right notes at the right time. Feel. Soul. Emotion. Gripping. These are the words that I’d use to describe the most meaningful pieces. Solos that make you tell everyone in the car to shut up so you can hear it.

Some of my favorite lead guitar bits.



Judas Priest (Glenn Tipton) “Beyond The Realms of Death”

Solo starts at 3:04

To me this kind of solo is just the best. Lots of feeling. Cool licks. Follows and fits the song perfectly. Not too much, not too little.





Opeth (Mikael Akerfeldt) ”Windowpane”

Solo at 1:20 and 5:16

Just gorgeous. Again, heaps and heaps of emotion. How can you not stop and listen to this. All the right notes….





Bruce Dickinson (Roy Z) “Gates of Urizen”

Fill at 1:15

Solo stats at 2:28

Melodic.





1-What is your level of theory knowledge? – basic. I understand it but haven’t done much application of it.

Do you know your diatonic and pentatonic boxes? – Some. I have learned them before. But I easily forget them since I don’t use them.


Do you know your triads? – not really. I have learned them probably 4-5 times now but didn’t use it. Don’t use it = lose it.



2-Do you know how to count rhythms along with a metronome? - yes

Do you practice with a metronome? No. And I know I should.

3-If you could play any lesson on GMC what would it be? I don’t know. I don’t really have a specific piece of music in mind. My goal isn’t to be able to mimic others. But create my own awesomeness!

4-Give me a brief introduction about yourself and what you are hoping to get out of this MTP program. A foundation for continued learning. Learning what works for ME. So I can continue my journey.



For the record. Going forward I will refer to the metronome as the "KAZ-BOX".

tongue.gif



Nice Jer! Between you, me and Dan we have the 80's well represented!! Look forward to working with you and I have a feeling that you and the "KAZ-BOX" are gonna be great friends. laugh.gif I have a feeling the "KAZ-BOX" is gonna be featured on the GMC funnies at some point. laugh.gif

We love ya KAZ!! smile.gif

So Jer, my first assignment for you in addition to what we are all doing as a group. I going to be this:

I want you to pick 2 techniques that you want to improve on and I am going to write you a couple of simple licks using 16th notes, quintuplets (groups of five) and triplets. Your assingment is going to be to spend 5 minutes a day on each lick and post a video of you playing it in time with the "KAZ-BOX".

Let me know what techniques you want the excercises in. Get to work my man!! smile.gif
kaznie_NL
WAAAAAAAHHH!!! Hahaha, I wish I would have shut this big mouth up tongue.gif
lcsdds
QUOTE (kaznie_NL @ Feb 25 2009, 05:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
WAAAAAAAHHH!!! Hahaha, I wish I would have shut this big mouth up tongue.gif

"KAZ-BOX" sounds way cooler than metronome. smile.gif laugh.gif
jer
biggrin.gif

Of course now I have "Rockin the Kaz Box, Rockin the Kaz-Box" stuck in my head.....
lcsdds
Jer,
I've been thinking about what to do with you. laugh.gif I don't think you are in the same place Dan is right now as far as where you want your playing to go. Maybe I am wrong and you can tell me if I am. Here are my 2 goals for you:

1-I want you to learn how to "rock the KAZ-BOX".
This will enable you to play all those Priest and Iron Maiden solos that you can play "except for the fast licks".

2-I want you to learn your scales and triads and start using them in creating your own "awesomeness". laugh.gif

How we go about this is up to you. If you want to show me a solo you want to learn to play I will teach you how to break it down and use the Kaz-Box so that you can play it.

Here in my mind is your problem. You practice inefficiently. That's it. You practice either to a backing track, which is fine when you can slow it down like a GP tab or whatever but you try to practice the whole solo or most of the solo and then screw up in the exact same spot and then start all the way at the beginning and repeat. What you need to do is ISOLATE the lick that is causing you problems and just work on that separately.

I'm gonna show you exactly what I want you to do and if you don't do it I'm gonna come to Iowa and shove a milk bone up your butt and an hungry dog down your throat!! laugh.gif laugh.gif You WILL play a solo that you have always wanted to play, and up to tempo, before I am done with you.

Just let me know what solo you want to work on and we'll start breaking it down and I'll show you how to I want you to start "ROCKING THE KAZ-BOX" with it!! laugh.gif laugh.gif
jer
Here be this weeks video.



Milk bones and hungry dogs eh?

Sounds... Interesting. You guys get real bored way out there in Oregon eh?

smile.gif

I'm gonna go with "Electric Eye" by Judas Priest.

Its got a few different cool licks in it.

Here is a live version. Solo starts at 2:17 or so.

I'm gonna need some red leather pants.....

lcsdds
Jer did you notice you were economy picking the A major Ionian shape when aescending? You started with a downstroke everytime you changed strings. No big deal, just wanted you to be aware of it. Actually we do get bored out here in Oregon. Nothing but trees to hug and squirrels to kiss. laugh.gif laugh.gif

"Electric Eye" it is!! So do you happen to have a GP tab on this that maybe you have been working from? If not see if you can locate one and email it to me, you have my address. I'll look it over and show you how I want you to break it down. How much time do you have realistically to practice each day? I don't want to overwhelm you and I want to give you a realistic schedule. Thanks buddy and way to rock the Kaz-Box!! smile.gif
jer
QUOTE
I want you to pick 2 techniques that you want to improve on and I am going to write you a couple of simple licks using 16th notes, quintuplets (groups of five) and triplets. Your assingment is going to be to spend 5 minutes a day on each lick and post a video of you playing it in time with the "KAZ-BOX".


I'd say any solo cliche lines would be good. Ones that use multiple strings. That and hammer ons and pull offs.

QUOTE (jer @ Feb 25 2009, 10:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'd say any solo cliche lines would be good. Ones that use multiple strings. That and hammer ons and pull offs.


QUOTE
Jer did you notice you were economy picking the A major Ionian shape when aescending?

No... I don't know what economy picking is. biggrin.gif

Schedule? Tough to say. One day I can do an hour, the next I'm go go go from the time I get home til 8:30pm.... Then I'm beat.

Or I have band practice right after supper and I'm home at 10pm....

I can always get in a few 1hr sessions on the weekends. Weekdays are real hit or miss....

Squeezing in 15-20 min on a weeknight isnt unrealistic 2-3 times a week.

QUOTE
Jer did you notice you were economy picking the A major Ionian shape when ascending?
I went back and watched it, yeah, I see what you mean now.

lcsdds
QUOTE (jer @ Feb 26 2009, 05:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'd say any solo cliche lines would be good. Ones that use multiple strings. That and hammer ons and pull offs.




No... I don't know what economy picking is. biggrin.gif

Schedule? Tough to say. One day I can do an hour, the next I'm go go go from the time I get home til 8:30pm.... Then I'm beat.

Or I have band practice right after supper and I'm home at 10pm....

I can always get in a few 1hr sessions on the weekends. Weekdays are real hit or miss....

Squeezing in 15-20 min on a weeknight isnt unrealistic 2-3 times a week.

We'll go over economy picking later. Your killing me smalls!! laugh.gif laugh.gif

Alright Jer, if you can commit 20 min a night to learning this solo I'll show you how to do it but you are gonna need plenty of batteries for your Kaz-Box!! laugh.gif Obviously more than 20 minutes would be cool but if you can at least commit to that I will get you to where you can play that bad boy. You are gonna have to get the red leather pants yourself though. Although I think Dan might have some he's not using anymore, you'll have to check with him!! laugh.gif laugh.gif

Are you on board dude?
jer
QUOTE
Tell me what your strengths are as far as lead. Are you better at legato or alternate picking. Are you interested in getting better at tapping, sweeping etc. I know you have limited time to practice and I don't want to waste your time trying to get you to do things you don't want to.


I really don't know... I don't feel I have any strengths. I have managed to play a few things but I dont think I have strengths per se.

Legato? I've seen that word used so many different ways you'd have to define it. I think its a very improperly used term.

Tapping? I wouldnt mind some. Electric Eye has a tapping lick in it. Its not a technique I would use often though.

Sweeping? Not so much. That (to me anyway) only sounds right in very high tempo stuff. And I'm not really headed there.

Really, just syncing up the hands and getting past the "walk fast" speeds is a good target. Being able to play faster than I can now.

Here is another example of the kind of soloing I like.

2:13

Firewind - I Am The Anger



QUOTE
Are you on board dude?


Oh yeah. No problem here.

I'm shooting low. I'd like to have more time. And I likely will. But I don't want to overstate things. Like this weekend we have company coming again. Wife's niece and nephew, their wives/husbands & kids.... Very little practice time. I have to entertain. sad.gif

I'm in no hurry. You wont hear me complaining that we aren't moving fast enough. Its my schedule that limits me. Not yours.

Damn job..... That'd free up 9hrs real quick!!!!

smile.gif
lcsdds
If the firewind tune is the kind of soloing you like I would say you are wanting to shred!! laugh.gif

Alright Jer so here is what I would like you to do. I am gonna send you the tab for the priest solo via email. In the tab you are gonna see that I have broken the solo up into several different licks. You are gonna learn to phrase the licks separately and with just you, your axe and the Kaz-Box. First thing you are gonna do is memorize the licks. Once you memorize them you are gonna take them to your Kaz-Box and work them up to tempo. I'll post again tomorrow and tell you which lick we are gonna start with tomorrow. For this first solo I want you to only work on the lick I have assigned you and as you get one memorized and can work on it with the Kaz-Box we'll add another one. I am gonna walk you through this first solo slowly. Talk to you tomorrow buddy. smile.gif

BTW, since you are time challenged we are gonna be as efficient as possible so if you don't have a timer I want you to get one please. smile.gif


jer
works for me.

Click to view attachment
lcsdds
QUOTE (jer @ Feb 26 2009, 06:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Dude....If that is a WRITTEN practice schedule then you and I are gonna get along GREAT!! smile.gif Looks like you are ready to roll. I'll get you your tab and your first lick tomorrow. smile.gif


jer
Oh no, thats an episode guide to Penn and Teller's show BULL$HIT.

Great show!!!!!

Still, I think we'll be ok.

lcsdds
Hi Jer,
So I emailed you a GP file of the "electric eye" solo. You'll notice that I labeled all the fast parts lick 1, lick 2 etc., I think there are 5 of them.

So I am gonna learn this bad boy with you. First thing I want you to do is to learn the first 2 licks that I have labeled. Both of them are phrased as 8th note triplets (3 notes per beat). I know you know you can count those with your Kaz-Box because I saw your assignment video last night where you played the A major Ionian box in triplets. smile.gif

What I want to see you do is learn the first 2 licks and try and figure the number of KU's you can play them at CLEANLY. This will be our baseline tempo and we'll build from there. I'm gonna learn them as well. If you have extra time you can learn the other 3 licks and figure out what your top CLEAN speed is in KU's as well. tongue.gif We're not gonna worry about the bending and slower licks at this point. I know you can bend and play the slower stuff just fine. We are gonna focus on the shred licks and get you to where you can play them. smile.gif

Should we get a "whoa bundy"? laugh.gif
jer
Sounds good. I'll dive into this tonight.

\m/ \m/

jer
ok. Bars 1 and 2 make sense. Triplets throughout. No prob. I'm at 90. 95 and I start messing it up.... This is a real pinky workout too. Which is good.

Bars 3 and 4. How do I tell by looking at the tab where the notes fall? Bars 1 and 2 are easy. Bar 3 that first note has a dot next to it. What does that mean? Is that note counts 1-3 and the next note is a quarter note? (4)

lcsdds
QUOTE (jer @ Feb 27 2009, 02:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
ok. Bars 1 and 2 make sense. Triplets throughout. No prob. I'm at 90. 95 and I start messing it up.... This is a real pinky workout too. Which is good.

Bars 3 and 4. How do I tell by looking at the tab where the notes fall? Bars 1 and 2 are easy. Bar 3 that first note has a dot next to it. What does that mean? Is that note counts 1-3 and the next note is a quarter note? (4)

Check out the tab Jer. Lick 1 is only bars 1&2. Lick 2 is only bars 5&6. We aren't gonna worry about the bends and timing just yet but we'll get there I promise. Stick with me on this alright? Just the speed licks for now. I know you know how to bend and play the slower stuff just fine. I want to concentrate on teaching you how to take a faster lick and work it up to tempo. If you could post a video of your top clean speed played along with metronome on those two licks once you get them memorized that would be great. smile.gif
jer
ahhh I see. I thought where lick 2 started, lick one ended.

Gotcha.
lcsdds
So Jer here is what we're gonna do. For next week we are gonna focus on just the first 2 licks.

For lick 1 we are gonna use 90 KU's for your top clean speed and 100 KU's for your target speed.

You are gonna take your Kaz-Box and set it for 50 KU's and set your timer for 1 minute and play that lick over and over.

You are gonna do the same thing for 60, 70, 80, 90 and 100 KU's. Play them all for 1 minute. So five minutes total on the Lick 1.

Here is why I want you to do this. At 50, 60, 70 and 80 KU's you are playing well below your top clean speed and really ingraining the motions required to play the lick into your muscle memory and your are playing extremely clean and accurate. When you get to 90 it should feel really comfortable. When you get to 100 you are gonna be maybe playing 70-75 percent accurate but you are teaching your brain and fingers what it is like to go faster. Over the course of the week you will find that when you jump up to 100 again you are getting more and more accurate. I want you to do this same thing when you figure out your top clean speed for lick 2.

The purpose of the timer for me is to keep me on schedule. I am like you, I have a wife, kids, career etc., so my practice time is limited. When I practice I want to make sure I am getting the most out of my session. I got frustrated that I would practice for 2 hours and feel like I didn't get through all the material I wanted to because I would get distracted. So I got the timer to keep me on schedule. Now I can take a couple of hours and get through a lot of material because the timer keeps me on schedule. If this isn't important to you don't do it but if you use this method then you know you can go into your practice space and in 25 minutes you can pretty thoroughly and in a focused matter get through the "Electric Eye" solo. I want you to just try it my way with the timer for one month and see if you don't see progress. The key here is consistency, really try and get at least through the 5 licks each day once you learn them. Once you get the speed licks up to a respectable tempo we will work on integrating them with the slower licks and I'll go into more detail about how to count each individual measure. If you are consistent with this I can guarantee you that you WILL get this solo up to tempo, it is just a matter of time and consistent correct practicing.

For you video posts I don't want to see you playing along with the CD or anything. Just you, your axe and the Kaz-Box. Can you do that for me dude? smile.gif
jer
Yep, can do.

The only question I have is:

QUOTE
Once you get the speed licks up to a respectable tempo we will work on integrating them with the slower licks and I'll go into more detail about how to count each individual measure.


Don't I need to know how to count each measure before I start practicing it? Otherwise I'm practicing it wrong, yes?

Bars 5 and 6 for example. I dont know how to count those.... I dont want to start playing them and just guess. Otherwise that is valuable minutes wasted playing them wrong. And worse yet, ingraining them WRONG.

Bars 1 and 2 are easy. 4 sets of 3.


Question: And this is off topic... What is your definition of "Legato"?



Question 3: How do you recommend picking lick 1?

I just ran through 1 minute each of 50-60-70-80-90-100 KUs on Lick 1. I'll be doing the same after work before band practice.

Little chunks like this I can knock out a handful of times in a given day.

opeth.db
Jer-

I found the timer is a super efficient way of practicing when we have all the stuff like we do goin on... smile.gif
jer
Oh yeah, I agree.

That timer in the picture ain't new. And its been sitting on my desk for a while now.

My daughter has me bouncing all over the house like a dang Tigger on crack. I couldnt tell you how long I've been at something since its always in 30 sec clips. Its like she has a sensor that goes off whenever dad sits down. Her mom is the same way. I could spend an hour in the kitchen/dining/living room and nobody would even acknowledge I'm home. But as soon as I disappear around the corner to my guitar room its "DAAAAAAAAAAD!" And ya can't always wait til bedtime cuz man, I've been up since 5:30 too! Come 8:30 - 9pm my motivation starts dwindling....

Don't get me wrong. I love em. And I wouldnt trade them for the world. (wife and kid) They just are very un-conducive to productive practice.





Question 4: Triads. Kaznie mentioned this in his thread too. What is the purpose of them in that 1st lesson? I don't really understand the significance of learning these. I know what they are, the building blocks for different chord types. Can you elaborate?
lcsdds
QUOTE (jer @ Feb 27 2009, 01:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yep, can do.

The only question I have is:



Don't I need to know how to count each measure before I start practicing it? Otherwise I'm practicing it wrong, yes?

Bars 5 and 6 for example. I dont know how to count those.... I dont want to start playing them and just guess. Otherwise that is valuable minutes wasted playing them wrong. And worse yet, ingraining them WRONG.

Bars 1 and 2 are easy. 4 sets of 3.


Question: And this is off topic... What is your definition of "Legato"?



Question 3: How do you recommend picking lick 1?

I just ran through 1 minute each of 50-60-70-80-90-100 KUs on Lick 1. I'll be doing the same after work before band practice.

Little chunks like this I can knock out a handful of times in a given day.


Pick Lick 1 with all downstrokes!!

For lick 2 look at the picture I provided and play where the words are capitalized. Rest or hold the note where the words are in lower case. smile.gif

At this point Jer I wouldn't worry about the bend leading into bar 5 or the last note of bar 6. When you get the lick up to a reasonable tempo that will be easy to sort out, but you can work on incorporating the first bend if you would like but only after you have done 1 cycle of 5 minutes at the different tempos of just the run. After you do that you can play the lick again and try to get the feel of where the bend from bar 4 leading into bar 5 falls. Think of these two licks as pure excercises that when you get them up to tempo you are going to use in a solo. THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT THEY ARE!! smile.gif

I am really at this point just wanting you to focus on just the run. I know you can bend just fine. smile.gif
jer
Yep, I'm with ya, we'll leave them out then. They are part of the prescribed bars so I had to ask.
lcsdds
QUOTE (jer @ Feb 27 2009, 02:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Oh yeah, I agree.

That timer in the picture ain't new. And its been sitting on my desk for a while now.

My daughter has me bouncing all over the house like a dang Tigger on crack. I couldnt tell you how long I've been at something since its always in 30 sec clips. Its like she has a sensor that goes off whenever dad sits down. Her mom is the same way. I could spend an hour in the kitchen/dining/living room and nobody would even acknowledge I'm home. But as soon as I disappear around the corner to my guitar room its "DAAAAAAAAAAD!" And ya can't always wait til bedtime cuz man, I've been up since 5:30 too! Come 8:30 - 9pm my motivation starts dwindling....

Don't get me wrong. I love em. And I wouldnt trade them for the world. (wife and kid) They just are very un-conducive to productive practice.





Question 4: Triads. Kaznie mentioned this in his thread too. What is the purpose of them in that 1st lesson? I don't really understand the significance of learning these. I know what they are, the building blocks for different chord types. Can you elaborate?


The triads are important for a few different reasons.

1) They are simple 3 string shapes that you can use for riffing in your rhythm playing. EVH does this ALL THE TIME.

2) They are great for playing arpeggios if you want to throw in some sweeps in your solo.

3) They are "safe/strong" notes when soloing and focusing on these notes make your solos more melodic.

Let's say I am trying to solo over and E major chord. I can find an E major triad shape and then picture either my diatonic or pentatonic box around it and I know that those notes in the triad are good "landing notes" for my licks and phrases.

Every one of those diatonic and pentatonic boxes contain EVERY triad that can be built from the scale. In the case of the tab I gave you guys it would be the major and minor triads found in the key of A major. I am gonna elaborate on this some more today in the main thread so stay tuned. I hope that at least helps for now. smile.gif


BTW Jer, I define legato as using as many hammer-ons and pull-offs as possibe. In the case of tapping ALL hammer-ons and pull-offs. When I do a legato run I only pick when necessary to change strings and sometimes not even then. biggrin.gif biggrin.gif
jer
QUOTE
Let's say I am trying to solo over and E major chord. I can find an E major triad shape and then picture either my diatonic or pentatonic box around it and I know that those notes in the triad are good "landing notes" for my licks and phrases.


I'd love to learn more about this. Whenever the time is right. Just know that. It doesnt need to be now.... Maybe you could point out some examples in the Electric Eye solo. "Here we are soloing over X chord, see how the lick is based around this pattern and he lands here?" That kinda thing. Stuff in context is KEY with me. (and not just me I'm sure) I'm sure you already know that though. smile.gif

QUOTE
BTW Jer, I define legato as using as many hammer-ons and pull-offs as possibe. In the case of tapping ALL hammer-ons and pull-offs. When I do a legato run I only pick when necessary to change strings and sometimes not even then.


I'm with ya. Yeah, thats the definition I use too. More left hand than right. Fluid, left hand playing. Little to no picking. Very "Satch-ey" wink.gif

Would lick 1 in electric eye be considered a legato lick? I'd think so. We're picking 1/3 of it.
lcsdds
QUOTE (jer @ Feb 27 2009, 03:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'd love to learn more about this. Whenever the time is right. Just know that. It doesnt need to be now.... Maybe you could point out some examples in the Electric Eye solo. "Here we are soloing over X chord, see how the lick is based around this pattern and he lands here?" That kinda thing. Stuff in context is KEY with me. (and not just me I'm sure) I'm sure you already know that though. smile.gif



I'm with ya. Yeah, thats the definition I use too. More left hand than right. Fluid, left hand playing. Little to no picking. Very "Satch-ey" wink.gif

Would lick 1 in electric eye be considered a legato lick? I'd think so. We're picking 1/3 of it.

You are gonna learn more about triads, scales and soloing this next week dude!! smile.gif

Jer....Dan say you have some recording skills and since you only have two simple licks to memorize for the week I am gonna give you two assingments that I am hoping you can help me out with, especially since I have little to no recording skills. laugh.gif

1) I need you to tell me what triads can be found in the Key of D major. If you don't know then refer to the lesson by Andrew on chords and scales. The link can be found in the main thread.

2) If you could would you please record a simple backing track for me. Drums, clean guitar and bass if it is not too much trouble.

I want the tempo to be about 100 KU and the progression to be 2 bars of D major and 2 bars of E major. Loop this four times so we have 16 bars total and once you do this if you could post it in your thread and I will refer everybody here to download it. Thanks dude and I hope that it won't be too much trouble. smile.gif
jer
QUOTE
Jer....Dan say you have some recording skills and since you only have two simple licks to memorize for the week I am gonna give you two assingments that I am hoping you can help me out with, especially since I have little to no recording skills.


You bet.

QUOTE
2) If you could would you please record a simple backing track for me. Drums, clean guitar and bass if it is not too much trouble.

I want the tempo to be about 100 KU and the progression to be 2 bars of D major and 2 bars of E major. Loop this four times so we have 16 bars total and once you do this if you could post it in your thread and I will refer everybody here to download it. Thanks dude and I hope that it won't be too much trouble.


Yep. Can do.

4 strums per bar?

QUOTE
I need you to tell me what triads can be found in the Key of D major.


I'm going to work this out here on paper. So you can see my thinking. I'mnot sure if I am right or not.

Dmaj = D E F# G A B C#

D, F#, A
E, G, B
F#, A, C#
G, B, D
A, C#, E
B, D, F#
C#, E, G

Now... I know that the order of these is constant for major. But I cant remember what it is. I know the last one is diminished.

I had to look it up.

Dmaj
Emin
F#min
Gmaj
Amaj
Bmin
C#dim
lcsdds
QUOTE (jer @ Feb 27 2009, 04:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You bet.



Yep. Can do.

4 strums per bar?



I'm going to work this out here on paper. So you can see my thinking. I'mnot sure if I am right or not.

Dmaj = D E F# G A B C#

D, F#, A
E, G, B
F#, A, C#
G, B, D
A, C#, E
B, D, F#
C#, E, G

Now... I know that the order of these is constant for major. But I cant remember what it is. I know the last one is diminished.

I had to look it up.

Dmaj
Emin
F#min
Gmaj
Amaj
Bmin
C#dim


First things first. How the heck do you get it to where you can break up the quotes like you do and answer specific questions? Dumb it down for me, remember I'm a dentist. laugh.gif


For the track lets go for a strum on the 1 of the first beat and the "and" of the 4th beat. So strum the down beat of the first beat and the up beat of the 4th beat and then hold this through the second bar. So only two strums per chord all happening in the first bar of each chord, no strums in the second bar of each chord also bump the tempo up to maybe 120 KU or so. I'll let you decide but I am going for a Satchey ballad type feel. Got it? smile.gif Thanks.

You were correct on the chords for D major. Good job!! Check the main thread over the next couple of days as I am going to elaborate on some things and give you guys a fun assingment. Also, if everybody uploads some takes over this chord progression could you mix it? Thanks dude!! smile.gif
jer
QUOTE
First things first. How the heck do you get it to where you can break up the quotes like you do and answer specific questions? Dumb it down for me, remember I'm a dentist.


I copy and paste the part I want to quote from the message and use the quote button. To the right of the smiley. Highlight what you want to quote (after pasting it into your message) and then click that.

QUOTE
For the track lets go for a strum on the 1 of the first beat and the "and" of the 4th beat. So strum the down beat of the first beat and the up beat of the 4th beat and then hold this through the second bar. So only two strums per chord all happening in the first bar of each chord, no strums in the second bar of each chord also bump the tempo up to maybe 120 KU or so. I'll let you decide but I am going for a Satchey ballad type feel. Got it? Thanks.


Yeah I thik I have it.
lcsdds
QUOTE
Yeah I thik I have it.


Cool. Jeremy, just email me the backing track if you would and I'll go ahead and post it on the main thread. So you can mix everything then? Thanks. smile.gif smile.gif
jer
Sure.

I'll make the backing late tonight or tomorrow morning.

and yeah, I can mix it.

I'm happy to help ya with any recording questions you may have. I'm not a wiz by any means but I've figured a few things out.
jer
QUOTE
So in the case of D lydian we can use a chord progression using D maj and then try and work in E maj, C# min as well.


Is there a reason you left out G#dim?

QUOTE
The Chord progression I am going to use is D-D-E-E. Think Satch's "Flying in a blue dream".


I'm lost. We just went through all of that to find what will give it a lydian feel and you are going to use D and E? These aren't going to sound "Lydian" are they?





So far in everything we've talked about, why are we using the word "triad"?

These are just the chords of the scale yes?

Just to make sure I have the backing track thing right.


CODE
Beats 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 1 - 2 - 3 - 4
      D             D                 E             E



Repeat 3 more times. Clean guitar chords. Bass notes mirroring the guitar chords. Basic 4/4 drum beat.

ok, lots of formatting involved in making that last post look right. I'm finished editiing it.......
lcsdds
QUOTE
I'm lost. We just went through all of that to find what will give it a lydian feel and you are going to use D and E? These aren't going to sound "Lydian" are they?


Remember from my post that to find out what gives Lydian its characteristic sound we compare it to the Ionian scale. There was only one note difference and that was G#. So we try to EMPHASIZE those chords that contain G# in our chord progression. In D Ionian that would be G# dim, E major and C# min. In D Ionian you have E minor NOT E major. The reason for this is the G#. So in D Lydian the note that gives it its characteristic sound is G#. I want you to look at the chart I gave you Jer and tell me what keys contain within them a D major AND an E major triad. Please post back here with the Answer. smile.gif



QUOTE
Is there a reason you left out G#dim?


You could use G# dim as well but it sounds kind of strange to my ear so I chose not to use it in the chord progression. You don't have to use all the chords that contain the G# note to get a D lydian feel, but you have to use some. Which ones is up to you. smile.gif


QUOTE
So far in everything we've talked about, why are we using the word "triad"?

These are just the chords of the scale yes?

Correct Jer!! Triads are just 3 note chords and we can get other chords like 7th and 9th chords by adding additional notes to these triads. The triad is just the most basic chord. We'll get more into that later. Good job!! smile.gif
lcsdds
Jer,
I got two questions for you.

1) What scales contain both a Dmaj triad and a C#min triad?

2) What scales contain both a Dmaj triad and an Emaj triad?

Use the chart I gave you and post back and let me know. Thanks dude!! smile.gif
lcsdds
Hi Jer,
I am wanting to solo over a D mixolydian chord progression. From reading the posts I did in the main thread can you answer the following questions please?

1) Is this a Major or Minor mode?

2) What is it's scale of comparison to figure out my chord options?

3) What are my diatonic scale options for soloing over this?

4) What are my pentatonic scale options for soloing over this?


Use the chart I gave you to figure these out. Thanks Jer. \m/ \m/ smile.gif
jer
We're getting too far ahead. Its going to make this thread tough to follow. I'm backing up 7 questions to this:

QUOTE
Remember from my post that to find out what gives Lydian its characteristic sound we compare it to the Ionian scale. There was only one note difference and that was G#. So we try to EMPHASIZE those chords that contain G# in our chord progression. In D Ionian that would be G# dim, E major and C# min. In D Ionian you have E minor NOT E major.


These 2 statements sound contradictory.

In D Ionian that would be G# dim, E major and C# min.

In D Ionian you have E minor NOT E major.


Is one of those supposed to be Lydian?

QUOTE
1) What scales contain both a Dmaj triad and a C#min triad?


Dmaj would be D, F#, A (I have to write out the whole scale and erase the 2,4,6,7)
C#min would be C#, E, G#

A Ionian, B Dorian, C# Phrygian, D Lydian, E Mixolydian, F# Aeolian, & G# Locrian

QUOTE
2) What scales contain both a Dmaj triad and an Emaj triad?


Dmaj = D, F#, A,
Emaj = E, G#, B,

Same as last time... A Ionian, B Dorian, C# Phrygian, D Lydian, E Mixolydian, F# Aeolian, G# Locrian

QUOTE
I am wanting to solo over a D mixolydian chord progression. From reading the posts I did in the main thread can you answer the following questions please?

1) Is this a Major or Minor mode?


Major.

QUOTE
2) What is it's scale of comparison to figure out my chord options?


D Major? (kinda guessing since this is a new concept. "Scale Comparison") If the chord progression is Mixolydian though, don't you need the chords for D Mixolydian? Not D Ionian? If you said you wanted to do a Mixolydian solo over an Ionian progression I'd say Dmaj... But if its a Mixolydian chord progression I don't know why you'd use a scale of comparison.

QUOTE
3) What are my diatonic scale options for soloing over this?

Lets come back to this after we get through the above parts.

QUOTE
4) What are my pentatonic scale options for soloing over this?

Lets come back to this after we get through the above parts.
lcsdds
QUOTE
These 2 statements sound contradictory.

In D Ionian that would be G# dim, E major and C# min.

In D Ionian you have E minor NOT E major.

Is one of those supposed to be Lydian?


You are right Jer, sorry for the typo. laugh.gif
D Lydian contains G#dim, E major and C#min.
See, you do understand!! smile.gif

QUOTE
1) What scales contain both a Dmaj triad and a E maj triad?


Use the chart I gave you in the post Jer. I gave it to you so you wouldn't have to write stuff out every time. Major triads only occur in the I, IV and V position. Go to your chart and find the Ionian position and then go down until you fin 'D' Then look across and see if there is an "E" in the IV or V position. Do the Same for the IV and V positions. USE THE CHART, I did the work so you wouldn't have to!! biggrin.gif

QUOTE
1) What scales contain both a Dmaj triad and a C#min triad?

Use the Chart Jer and see if you can find a D in the I, IV or V postion and a C# in the ii, ii, or vi postion in the same row. USE THE CHART!!! laugh.gif
jer
QUOTE
Use the chart I gave you in the post Jer. I gave it to you so you wouldn't have to write stuff out every time. Major triads only occur in the I, IV and V position. Go to your chart and find the Ionian position and then go down until you fin 'D' Then look across and see if there is an "E" in the IV or V position. Do the Same for the IV and V positions. USE THE CHART, I did the work so you wouldn't have to!!


Then I dont think I understand the chart.

For Dmaj triad (example) I need to know the notes of Dmaj. I could look at the chart for D Ionian and get them, but I feel I need to know them without a crutch. So Istart with D and go wwhwwwh and get the notes. Then to get the DMaj triad I keep the 1,3,5 and drop the rest.

THEN

I use the chart. I look for a D. Then once I find one I look for a F# 2 steps to the right. And if I find one I look for an A 2 steps to the right of that. If I find it all on the same line then we have a winner.

Were my answers correct?
lcsdds
QUOTE
D Major? (kinda guessing since this is a new concept. "Scale Comparison") If the chord progression is Mixolydian though, don't you need the chords for D Mixolydian? Not D Ionian? If you said you wanted to do a Mixolydian solo over an Ionian progression I'd say Dmaj... But if its a Mixolydian chord progression I don't know why you'd use a scale of comparison.

D major/Ionian is the Scale of comparison. The reason you compare the two scales is because D Ionian and D mixolydian BOTH contain a D major triad. I want to know what triads does D mixolydian contain that D Ionian doesn't so I can use those chords in my chord progression to distinguish it from D Ionian. Remember that Ionian and Mixolydian are both Major SOUNDING modes. Think of Mixolydian and Lydian as DIFFERENT FLAVORS of the Ionian mode.

QUOTE (jer @ Feb 28 2009, 03:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Then I dont think I understand the chart.

For Dmaj triad (example) I need to know the notes of Dmaj. I could look at the chart for D Ionian and get them, but I feel I need to know them without a crutch. So Istart with D and go wwhwwwh and get the notes. Then to get the DMaj triad I keep the 1,3,5 and drop the rest.

THEN

I use the chart. I look for a D. Then once I find one I look for a F# 2 steps to the right. And if I find one I look for an A 2 steps to the right of that. If I find it all on the same line then we have a winner.

Were my answers correct?

You could do that Jer but the point of the chart is so you can quickly reference which triads occur in which modes. If you want to do a long division problem you could write it out on paper and figure it out, or you could quickly grab your calculator and figure it out A LOT quicker. laugh.gif Your answers were right though. With the chart all you need to know is that Major triads occur at the I, IV and V positions and Minor triads occur at the ii, iii and vi positions. biggrin.gif
jer
QUOTE
With the chart all you need to know is that Major triads occur at the I, IV and V positions and Minor triads occur at the ii, iii and vi positions.


I still don't know what that means.... If the notes of a major triad are the 1,3,5 how can I,IV,V have anything to do with it?

QUOTE
D major/Ionian is the Scale of comparison. The reason you compare the two scales is because D Ionian and D mixolydian BOTH contain a D major triad. I want to know what triads does D mixolydian contain that D Ionian doesn't so I can use those chords in my chord progression to distinguish it from D Ionian. Remember that Ionian and Mixolydian are both Major SOUNDING modes. Think of Mixolydian and Lydian as DIFFERENT FLAVORS of the Ionian mode.


Why not just figure out the chords of D Mixolydian? It seems to look at D Ionian and find the difference is a longer step method.

D Mixolydian = D E F# G A B C

Dmaj
Emin
F#dim
Gmaj
Amin
Bmin
Cmaj

Correct?

Those are your D Mixolydian chords. Why look at D Ionian and D Mixolydian

D Mixolydian = D E F# G A B C
D Ionian = D E F# G A B C#


to see that the difference is the C# then look for chords in D Ionian that have a C instead of C# so you can sound Mixolydian?

Do you see what I am asking?
lcsdds
QUOTE (jer @ Feb 28 2009, 04:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I still don't know what that means.... If the notes of a major triad are the 1,3,5 how can I,IV,V have anything to do with it?

The I, IV and V refer to the postion that the notes in the scale fall on. Here is my assumption Jer:

At the I, IV and V postion there is ALWAYS a major triad and at the ii, iii and vi position there is ALWAYS a minor triad.

Do this. You know that D maj is spelled D-F#-A right?

Go to the I column and find D the look two spaces to the right guess what note it there? F#

Go to the IV column and find D then look two spaces to the right guess what? F# again

Go to the V column and find D then look two spaces to the right...TA DA...F# again.

That means in the major scale that whatever note fall in the I, IV or V postion, if you build a triad using that note as the root then it will ALWAYS be a major triad.

Same thing is true of the ii, iii and vi position

Dmin=D-F-A

Go to the ii column and find D, two spaces to the right and you have F.

Go to the iii column and find D, two spaces to the right you have F again.

Go to the vi column and find D, two spaces to the right.....F!!!

So in the major scale, if you build a triad using whatever note occurs at the ii, iii or vi position as the root, it will ALWAYS be minor.

So using the Chart....Whatever note falls on the I, IV or V position is the root of a major triad in that scale and whatever note falls on the ii, iii, or vi position is the root of a minor triad. Test the chart Jer and see if it isn't true.

Spell out E major and E minor. See if every time E is in the I, IV or V position if the note 2 spaces to the right isn't G#, and when is in the ii, iii or vi position if the note 2 spaces to the right isn't G. Test it.
jer
I see.

You are using the I IV and V as the starting points only.
lcsdds
QUOTE (jer @ Feb 28 2009, 04:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I see.

You are using the I IV and V as the starting points only.

YES!!!
If you spell out A major you have this A-B-C#-D-E-F#-G# OR THIS:

I=A
ii=B
iii=C#
IV=D
V=E
vi=F#
vii/dim=G#

NOW...if I build a triad starting from the IV or D then 1=root=D....3=the third, in this case major third=F#, and 5=fifth=A. The note that determines if a triad is major or minor is the 3rd. Get it now?

Sorry for confusing you. biggrin.gif
lcsdds
QUOTE
Those are your D Mixolydian chords. Why look at D Ionian and D Mixolydian

D Mixolydian = D E F# G A B C
D Ionian = D E F# G A B C#


to see that the difference is the C# then look for chords in D Ionian that have a C instead of C# so you can sound Mixolydian?

Do you see what I am asking?



Jer,
Using your chart tell me the triads found in both D Ionian and D mixolydian. Then I want to ask you some questions. I know you have company this weekend so we can continue this when you have more time. But think about this.

If you are soloing over this Progression D-G-Em-G, how do you know if it is D Mixolydian or D Ionian? You know it isn't D lydian because D lydian contains E major and not E minor. Both D Mixoydian and D Ionian contain those 3 chords used in that progression. If you are making a CONSCIOUS decision that you want a progression to SOUND MIXOLYDIAN AS OPPOSED TO IONIAN then how do I do that? The answer is to figure out what the difference between D Mixolydian and D Ionian is. The answer is the difference is that D Ionian has a C# and D mixolydian has a C. That one note can appear in 3 different triads as either the root, third or fifth. That means that D Ionian has different chords associated with it then D Mixolydian. If i want to sound Mixolydian and not Ionian I need to use some chords in my progression that are found in D Mixolydian and not D Ionian. Do you get that?


lcsdds
Jer,
I'm gonna give you one more thing to think about. Let's look at the chord progression we are gonna use in our MTP collab this month. D-D-E-E

Now lets look at it measure by measure and see what we could use to solo over it.

For the first two measures we have a D major chord.

What scales contain within it a D-F#-A AKA a D major triad? D Ionian, D Lydian and D Mixolydian.
Check your chart to confirm this!

So for the first two measures we could use either one of those 3 scales and sound good for the most part. smile.gif

Now lets look at the next two measures where we are soloing over E major.

What scales contain within it an E-G#-B AKA an E Major triad? E Ionian, E Lydian and E Mixolydian.

So for these two measures we could use either one of those 3 scales and sound good as well. smile.gif

This is what fusion guys do, analyze every chord all by itself.

But....If you ask yourself... what if I only want to use one scale so I don't have to worry about changing scales every time the chord changes. Well if you analyze everything by writing it out OR....you just look at my chart laugh.gif laugh.gif..You will find that TWO of those 6 scales contain both D-F#-A (D major triad) and E-G#-B (E major triad).

Those two scales are D Lydian and E Mixolydian....Now look at your chart and guess what.....D Lydian and E Mixolydian contain THE EXACT SAME NOTES.

So technically, You could say our progression is either D lydian or E mixolydian...6 of one or half a dozen of the other.

But for our purposes we are gonna call it D lydian. smile.gif

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