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bleak
Hi Muris, ive been analysing your Fusion Jam composition for my own theory knowledge and i've just got a few questions.. tell me if i get something wrong!

So the dorian mode has a raised 6th degree so in Bminor thats G to G#

In your chord progression you have the Bminor then going to E7 as opposed to Emin7 as the 3rd degree is now a major 3rd making it dominant. Im guessing you chose this chord because it roots the progression in B dorian and not B aeolian now?

Then you use G7 with an F natural not an F# which is where I get a bit lost because I thought you would of used either G#maj7 for the Dorian progression or Gmaj7 which fits a Bminor progression.

Is the use of the dominant G used for the modulation to Cmin (as G is the 5th of C) and just to make a strong cadence?

thanks, I hope I wasnt too confusing
Muris Varajic
QUOTE (bleak @ Sep 15 2009, 02:34 PM) *
Hi Muris, ive been analysing your Fusion Jam composition for my own theory knowledge and i've just got a few questions..

So the dorian mode has a raised 6th degree so in Bminor thats G to G#

In your chord progression you have the Bminor then going to E7 as opposed to Emin7 as the 3rd degree is now a major 3rd making it dominant. Im guessing you chose this chord because it roots the progression in B dorian and not B aeolian now?


Yeah, since we have G# note in B Dorian there's a major chord on IV degree.
But there's a catch with this name "dominant".
Dominant is degree actually, 5th degree in scale.
And most often we have 7 chord on 5th degree, like E7 in a key of A or Am,
G7 in a key of C or Cm etc.
Those chords really dominates over root chords and they seek to be resolved into roots as well.
So this name "dominant" somehow stands through time
and people tend to call every major triad with minor 7th a dominant
eventho it's not on dominant degree every time.
And there are also minor dominant, like Em chord in a key of Am.
But if you compare E with Em in a key of Am
you'll realize that E is far stronger and therefor used for stronger cadence. smile.gif

QUOTE (bleak @ Sep 15 2009, 02:34 PM) *
Then you use G7 with an F natural not an F# which is where I get a bit lost because I thought you would of used either G#maj7 for the Dorian progression or Gmaj7 which fits a Bminor progression.

Is the use of the dominant G used for the modulation to Cmin (as G is the 5th of C) and just to make a strong cadence?

thanks, I hope I wasnt too confusing


Indeed, this G7 was a bit out if you compare it with scale,
we had B Dorian so far and G7 doesn't fit it.
But not every progression has to follow same scale all the time.
Take a look at Blues per example,
you'll find progression like A7, D7 and E7
where you actually have 3 scales, A Mixolydian over A7,
A Dorian over D7 and A major scale over E7.
Then you have tons of songs with progression like this:
Am (root), Dm, F7 and E7.
F7 has Eb note and can be compared with our G7 in this lesson.
It's used very often to create kind of jazzy sound
and Fusion has bit of Jazz inside so nothing out of ordinary,
it sounds ok for this kind of music.

Now, you mentioned staying in B Dorian.
If I wanted to stay in B Dorian and play 6th degree chord
it would be G#dim (G#, B and D) and that one just doesn't fit. smile.gif
And if you analyze guitar line in this lesson you'll see that
I was mainly playing around chord, not much like "scale" playing,
I didn't want to confuse many. smile.gif
But there's a solution for scale as well,
it's quite simple to figure out, we just have to go one step at the time.
Here's our B Dorian : B, C#, D, E, F#, G# and A.
How we replace what has to be replaced considering notes of G7 chord:
B, C#, D, E, F, G and A.
And this is called B Aeolian b5 or B Minor flat 5 which is the same thing.
Now you can even google this scale if you want
but you'll find out that it's actually one of Melodic Minor modes,
this time created from D Melodic Minor ( D, E , F, G, A, B and C#).
But in our case we have nothing to do with any kind of Dm, either chord or scale,
we simply happen to play that scale forced by chord progression. smile.gif
Tho you have found another fact, it was also used for cadence,
it was real dominant this time, dominant for Cm.



And NO, you were not confusion, no way!
Glad you asked, fell free to ask if you need anything else, my pleasure. smile.gif
bleak
QUOTE (Muris Varajic @ Sep 15 2009, 06:03 PM) *
Yeah, since we have G# note in B Dorian there's a major chord on IV degree.
But there's a catch with this name "dominant".
Dominant is degree actually, 5th degree in scale.
And most often we have 7 chord on 5th degree, like E7 in a key of A or Am,
G7 in a key of C or Cm etc.
Those chords really dominates over root chords and they seek to be resolved into roots as well.
So this name "dominant" somehow stands through time
and people tend to call every major triad with minor 7th a dominant
eventho it's not on dominant degree every time.
And there are also minor dominant, like Em chord in a key of Am.
But if you compare E with Em in a key of Am
you'll realize that E is far stronger and therefor used for stronger cadence. smile.gif



Indeed, this G7 was a bit out if you compare it with scale,
we had B Dorian so far and G7 doesn't fit it.
But not every progression has to follow same scale all the time.
Take a look at Blues per example,
you'll find progression like A7, D7 and E7
where you actually have 3 scales, A Mixolydian over A7,
A Dorian over D7 and A major scale over E7.
Then you have tons of songs with progression like this:
Am (root), Dm, F7 and E7.
F7 has Eb note and can be compared with our G7 in this lesson.
It's used very often to create kind of jazzy sound
and Fusion has bit of Jazz inside so nothing out of ordinary,
it sounds ok for this kind of music.

Now, you mentioned staying in B Dorian.
If I wanted to stay in B Dorian and play 6th degree chord
it would be G#dim (G#, B and D) and that one just doesn't fit. smile.gif
And if you analyze guitar line in this lesson you'll see that
I was mainly playing around chord, not much like "scale" playing,
I didn't want to confuse many. smile.gif
But there's a solution for scale as well,
it's quite simple to figure out, we just have to go one step at the time.
Here's our B Dorian : B, C#, D, E, F#, G# and A.
How we replace what has to be replaced considering notes of G7 chord:
B, C#, D, E, F, G and A.
And this is called B Aeolian b5 or B Minor flat 5 which is the same thing.
Now you can even google this scale if you want
but you'll find out that it's actually one of Melodic Minor modes,
this time created from D Melodic Minor ( D, E , F, G, A, B and C#).
But in our case we have nothing to do with any kind of Dm, either chord or scale,
we simply happen to play that scale forced by chord progression. smile.gif
Tho you have found another fact, it was also used for cadence,
it was real dominant this time, dominant for Cm.



And NO, you were not confusion, no way!
Glad you asked, fell free to ask if you need anything else, my pleasure. smile.gif


Ah that was such a rewarding answer Muris smile.gif thank you very much

I think I need to work on playing around the chord while improvising instead of just thinking of boxes up and down the neck to play from. Im guessing this just comes from knowing the notes of the fretboard extremely well with no hesitation so u can make phrases from the notes of the chord?

one last thing.. in terms of improvisation.. whats the best way to be able to play in any key. For example I know some keys which I use regularly like all the positions of C major on the fretboard which can be used for Amin, D dorian etc and Eminor/Gmajor... but when I get together with some people and jam and someone plays a progression based in a key im unfamiliar with I can't play all those licks and sweeps im familiar with in other keys

If someone just said play G#minor over this progression then I wouldnt be fluid, I would be able to play first position and pentatonic but to link box patterns up the neck, it would take me 20 minutes or so to become familar with that key. Is it just practice and familiarising yourself with each key? or learning all the fretboard notes excellently? or intervals? Whats the best way smile.gif
Muris Varajic
You're very welcome!

The way I see things, it's about finding each degree of any scale on fretboard.
You do that as you learn all positions and intervals between notes in any scale.
And along with that you'll naturally learn all separate notes on fretboard.
These things are too connected to learn them separately imo.
So there is no best way, al those ways you mentioned are good and best,
you can't learn one 100% without knowing others.
Work hard, analyze what you play, challenge yourself, result will come,
it takes time tho, doesn't happen over night. smile.gif
bleak
QUOTE (Muris Varajic @ Sep 16 2009, 01:03 AM) *
You're very welcome!

The way I see things, it's about finding each degree of any scale on fretboard.
You do that as you learn all positions and intervals between notes in any scale.
And along with that you'll naturally learn all separate notes on fretboard.
These things are too connected to learn them separately imo.
So there is no best way, al those ways you mentioned are good and best,
you can't learn one 100% without knowing others.
Work hard, analyze what you play, challenge yourself, result will come,
it takes time tho, doesn't happen over night. smile.gif


thanks for ur advice and tips Muris smile.gif i'll get there one day
Muris Varajic
QUOTE (bleak @ Sep 16 2009, 01:52 PM) *
thanks for ur advice and tips Muris smile.gif i'll get there one day

No problem, let me know if you need anything else. smile.gif
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