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Pedja Simovic
Robert,

Feel free to tell me as many things as possible about your playing and knowledge. Audio and/or video of your playing could also help. I am looking for specific goals (short and long term) so that I could create proper plan for you smile.gif

Pedja
playaxeman
Hello Pedja

Good to be back again after three months. I have learned a lot these three months so I am excited for the next ones.

My musical knowledge level is 'beginner'
I know how to find out what key a song is in and which pentatonic scale can be used
I know that every major has relative minor
I know the 5 pentatonic minor boxes
I know how to find the 5 pentatonic major boxes
I know about superimposing over a major chord
I know how a chord is build on the 1-3-5 interval
I know the name of the intervals
I know harmony: Imaj-IImin IIImin-IVmaj-V7-VImin-VIIdim7b5

My main goals in to be better in building a solo during an improvisation or find ways to be more relax & confident on doing phrasing or solo improvisation .More understanding of theory and cementing scales so solidly I can used them when needed, will be helpful to achieve my main goal.

Weak points in building a solo and I want to work on are:
A) I don't seem to break out of box 1 or I 'forget'/ don't know how to connect to the other boxes/scales properly
B A way to study scales so they are in cement and I don't forget them when I need them
C) Use scales after studying them and know what are the strong notes in a scale to play over a song
d) Timing always seems the problem with lesson so I like to work on that too
E) Technique: work on my left hand technique skills needed during improvisation (e.g arp sweeping,

Cheers
Robert
Pedja Simovic
Hello Robert,

Glad to have you back after 3 months brake!
I already know your situation but it was good to read this guitar CV smile.gif
We will spend time on timing as well as improvising a lot in next 3 months. Your 1st assignment will be based on connecting different pentatonic boxes. I will try to post that for you tomorrow (perhaps with audio demonstration on my part or just guitar pro!).

Keep an eye out for your 1st assignment tomorrow!

Pedja
playaxeman
Hello Pedja,

That is great. biggrin.gif

May I suggest something cause I am doing a gig this weekend and I have to solo over this bluesy chord progression:

Bm/// | Em F#// | Bm / Em Bm | Bm /// | F# ///| Bm /// | Em ///|Bm /// | F# ///| Bm /// |

When I first say this song I started to play Bm pentatonic scale. But looking more closely I figured out G is better

The reason: G- Am- Bm-Cmaj-D7-Em-F#-G

The progression is based on III-VI-VII harmony so I can use
G maj pentatonic scale
Em pentatonic scale (= relative scale to G maj)
Am pentatonic scale
Bm pentatonic scale


Am I correct so far?

So as exercise lets take this progession an put it into practice

Cheers
Robert
Pedja Simovic
Hello Robert!

I will help you with this chord progression straight away and we can do it as your 1st assignment from tomorrow on.

1) Notice how first chord in the chord progression is B minor.
2) Many times through the chord progression you hear B minor over and over again as resting chord.
3) This makes us think and believe that piece is in B minor something!
4) When you look at the chord progression, B min E min F# , we come to conclusion if B min is I min, E min is IV min and F# is V, that means we are in B harmonic minor!
5) Conclusion, your chord progression is in B harmonic minor. You could play B minor pentatonic over whole chord progression to make it blues/rock sounding!

Let me know if you got more questions. I will ask you to record this in tomorrows assignment and solo over it!

Pedja
playaxeman
Hi Pedja

This is great start of the MTP.

Obviously I was totally wrong about the key scale & progression. I would never ever have thought this was B harmonic minor.
I agree that Bm is coming over and over in the progression.
So this is a I-IV-V chord progression instead of a I-III-VI-VII chord progression.
I suppose the last one isn't very familiar

Please try to explain to me
1) How to recognize the key of a song based on it's progression and not by it key sign?
2) Understand the difference between minor and harmonic minor
3) What is the chord harmony for B harmonic minor I-II-III-IV-V-VI-VII :Bm-?-? Em-F#-?=?

Cheers
Robert
Pedja Simovic
QUOTE (playaxeman @ May 31 2010, 05:48 PM) *
Hi Pedja

This is great start of the MTP.

Obviously I was totally wrong about the key scale & progression. I would never ever have thought this was B harmonic minor.
I agree that Bm is coming over and over in the progression.
So this is a I-IV-V chord progression instead of a I-III-VI-VII chord progression.
I suppose the last one isn't very familiar

Please try to explain to me
1) How to recognize the key of a song based on it's progression and not by it key sign?
2) Understand the difference between minor and harmonic minor
3) What is the chord harmony for B harmonic minor I-II-III-IV-V-VI-VII :Bm-?-? Em-F#-?=?

Cheers
Robert



Hi Robert,

Glad you enjoyed those answers smile.gif Let me try to answer all your questions.

1) How to recognize the key of a song based on it's progression and not by it key sign? You should look for the starting chord in the chord progression, try to find cadences in the chord progression, figure out the form of the piece and see what type of ending is there harmony wise.
2) Understand the difference between minor and harmonic minor. The difference is in only one note. Natural minor has minor 7th interval from root of the scale while Harmonic minor has major 7th. That one note difference makes a lot of difference. For starters, Natural minor has I min IV min and V min , in B min that would be B min E min F# min. For Harmonic minor we have I min IV min and V (major!). So the essential difference there is that V is different in those two scales and should be used as focus point when analyzing minor chord progressions.
3) What is the chord harmony for B harmonic minor I-II-III-IV-V-VI-VII :Bm-?-? Em-F#-?=? I could tell you this but it would be more useful for you to figure this out by writing down the scale and then working out triads and 4 part harmony in it! Here is Harmonic minor formula, everything in relationship to root : Root, Maj 2nd, Min 3rd, Perfect 4rh, Perfect 5th, Min 6th, Maj 7th, Octave. IF you use whole and half step system, we get this : Root , Whole, Half, Whole, Whole, Half, Whole and Half(very important) and Half! Notice how between bVI scale degree and VII there is minor 3rd interval or whole + half step distance.

Let me know if you got more questions!

Pedja
playaxeman
QUOTE (Pedja Simovic @ May 31 2010, 06:31 PM) *
Hi Robert,

Glad you enjoyed those answers smile.gif Let me try to answer all your questions.

1) How to recognize the key of a song based on it's progression and not by it key sign? You should look for the starting chord in the chord progression, try to find cadences in the chord progression, figure out the form of the piece and see what type of ending is there harmony wise.
2) Understand the difference between minor and harmonic minor. The difference is in only one note. Natural minor has minor 7th interval from root of the scale while Harmonic minor has major 7th. That one note difference makes a lot of difference. For starters, Natural minor has I min IV min and V min , in B min that would be B min E min F# min. For Harmonic minor we have I min IV min and V (major!). So the essential difference there is that V is different in those two scales and should be used as focus point when analyzing minor chord progressions.
3) What is the chord harmony for B harmonic minor I-II-III-IV-V-VI-VII :Bm-?-? Em-F#-?=? I could tell you this but it would be more useful for you to figure this out by writing down the scale and then working out triads and 4 part harmony in it! Here is Harmonic minor formula, everything in relationship to root : Root, Maj 2nd, Min 3rd, Perfect 4rh, Perfect 5th, Min 6th, Maj 7th, Octave. IF you use whole and half step system, we get this : Root , Whole, Half, Whole, Whole, Half, Whole and Half(very important) and Half! Notice how between bVI scale degree and VII there is minor 3rd interval or whole + half step distance.

Let me know if you got more questions!

Pedja



Hello Pedja,
ad 1) To find the cadences I should know the harmony "formula"that is based on scale right? E.g. for maj7 I know it is I-ii-iii-IV-V-vi-vii so for Cmaj7 this will be: Imaj IImin IIImin IVMaj V7 VIimin VIIdim. So if I want to find cadences I must know all the harmony scale formula
still very difficult to do without knowing its minor formula

ad 2) I understand your explanation.
So natural A minor formula is: : A-B-C-D-E-F-G-A. (1,2,b3,4,5,b6,b7) w(hole), h, w, w, h, w, w
The A harmonic minor scale is : A-B-C-D-E-F-G#-A : (1,2,b3,4,5,b6,7) w, h, w, w, h, 1,5, h
Difference is raised the 7 th note by a half step

ad 3) For triads it is
Am=A-C-E
Bdim= B-D-F
Caug= C-E-G#
Dm =D-F-A
Emaj = E-G#-B
Fmaj = F-A-C
G#dim= G#-B-D
So the formula for triads is: Imin - IIdim- IIIaug - Ivmin-Vmaj-VImaj-VIIdimo

so for Bm the progession would be like: Bm-C#dim-Daug- Em-F#-G-A#/Bbdim

Should I best use B harmonic min scale or Bm pentatonic scale over this progression?

Cheers
Robert

Pedja Simovic
QUOTE (playaxeman @ May 31 2010, 08:13 PM) *
Hello Pedja,
ad 1) To find the cadences I should know the harmony "formula"that is based on scale right? E.g. for maj7 I know it is I-ii-iii-IV-V-vi-vii so for Cmaj7 this will be: Imaj IImin IIImin IVMaj V7 VIimin VIIdim. So if I want to find cadences I must know all the harmony scale formula
still very difficult to do without knowing its minor formula

ad 2) I understand your explanation.
So natural A minor formula is: : A-B-C-D-E-F-G-A. (1,2,b3,4,5,b6,b7) w(hole), h, w, w, h, w, w
The A harmonic minor scale is : A-B-C-D-E-F-G#-A : (1,2,b3,4,5,b6,7) w, h, w, w, h, 1,5, h
Difference is raised the 7 th note by a half step

ad 3) For triads it is
Am=A-C-E
Bdim= B-D-F
Caug= C-E-G#
Dm =D-F-A
Emaj = E-G#-B
Fmaj = F-A-C
G#dim= G#-B-D
So the formula for triads is: Imin - IIdim- IIIaug - Ivmin-Vmaj-VImaj-VIIdimo

so for Bm the progession would be like: Bm-C#dim-Daug- Em-F#-G-A#/Bbdim

Should I best use B harmonic min scale or Bm pentatonic scale over this progression?

Cheers
Robert



Hi Robert,

You got it all now. You can do 4 part harmony for Harmonic minor to see whats happening in there.
Regarding your last question, you could use B natural minor all the way until F# chord arrives, then you can switch to harmonic minor. B minor pentatonic would work and it would sound bluesy over this chord progression which is what your goal is I suppose.

Let me know if you got more questions, this will be related to your 1st assignment.

Pedja
playaxeman
Hi Pedja,

Thanks

Great. I am will try to use the scales you just mentioned

Cheers
Robert
playaxeman
Hello Pedja

4 part harmony for A harmonic minor: A-B-C-D-E-F-G#
I Ammaj7=A-C-E –G# (steps 1-b3-5-7)
II Bdim7b5= B-D-F-A (steps 1-b3-b5-b7)
III Cmaj7#5= C-E-G#-B (steps 1-3-#5-7)
IV Dm6 =D-F-A-B (steps 1-b3-5-6 )
V E 7 = E-G#-B-D (steps 1-3-5-b7)
VI Fmaj 7= F-A-C-E (steps 1-3-5-7)
VII G#dim7= G#-B-D-F (1-b3-b5-6(bb7) (or Ddim7 / Fdim7 /Bdim7)

cheers
Robert
Pedja Simovic
QUOTE (playaxeman @ Jun 2 2010, 12:50 PM) *
Hello Pedja

4 part harmony for A harmonic minor: A-B-C-D-E-F-G#
I Ammaj7=A-C-E –G# (steps 1-b3-5-7)
II Bdim7b5= B-D-F-A (steps 1-b3-b5-b7)
III Cmaj7#5= C-E-G#-B (steps 1-3-#5-7)
IV Dm6 =D-F-A-B (steps 1-b3-5-6 )
V E 7 = E-G#-B-D (steps 1-3-5-b7)
VI Fmaj 7= F-A-C-E (steps 1-3-5-7)
VII G#dim7= G#-B-D-F (1-b3-b5-6(bb7) (or Ddim7 / Fdim7 /Bdim7)

cheers
Robert


Hello Robert,

Please double check your work. When we do roman numerals we relate everything to major scale. So instead of just using I II III etc, you have to pay attention to interval distance from root of the scale/mode.
Harmonic minor would look like : I min/maj7 II min7b5 bIII maj7#5 IV min7 V dom7 bVI maj7 VII dim7
As you see your 2nd and 4th scale degree were analyzed wrong but you were/are on the great track.

Keep up the good work!
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