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Posted by: Outlaw2112 Jun 9 2008, 05:29 AM

Does anyone wanna try some jimmy page style lessons?... his riffs to solo styles have influenced many guitarists, could probably do quite a few lessons in his style

Posted by: fkalich Jun 9 2008, 05:52 AM

Muris wrote that Page did not have a unique style, so he is not worthy. Even being arguably the most influential guitarist of all time. I would think they would have one as a tribute to him if nothing else. Just so long as it does not sound like Stairway to Heaven. I am in general against capital punishment, but in the case of someone playing Stairway to Heaven, I would consider it, as mercy killing if nothing else.

Posted by: Andrew Cockburn Jun 9 2008, 01:16 PM

Its always the deadpan humour that cracks me up with you fkalich! I'm always trying to figure out if you are joking, or if perhaps, somewhere on a wall in a house in Kansas there are a bunch of mounted guitarists heads with a plaque undeneath that reads "No Stairway" !

Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Jun 9 2008, 01:41 PM

I'll consider doing a lesson in his style. Give me some time to get something really cool.

Posted by: audiopaal Jun 9 2008, 02:01 PM

Haha



Goodie, thanks Gabe

Posted by: Robwylde Jun 9 2008, 02:10 PM

Thanx Gabriel That is fantastic, Jimmy Page is a Riff master that many have tried to duplicate nad I'm sure you will have a very cool Page lesson

Posted by: OrganisedConfusion Jun 9 2008, 02:13 PM

I hate his guitaring but even I agree there should be a lesson in the style of him. As long as somebody doesn't scream in a high pitch voice over it lol. Ohhhhhhhhh Yeah, Ohhhhhhhhh Yeah, BBBBAAAAAABBBBBBBBBYYYYY, Ohhhhhhhh Yeah.

Just a few Led Zep lyrics there

Posted by: Old School Rocker Jun 9 2008, 02:32 PM

If you wanna do it just like Jimmy and make it really cool, you could use a violin bow That'd be one killer lesson.


Are you kidding that'd be the best part, Gabe could get Luciana to add some vocals into his lesson
I would love to see a Jimmy Page style lesson He's one of my Fav. guitarists right with Slash, Joe Perry, and Eddie Van Halen.

Posted by: Henry Dietzel Jul 8 2008, 07:15 PM

I just found this thread. I will probably put together a Page lesson. The problem with Page is, as Muris wrote, he did not have a unique style. My problem with him is that he was very sloppy live and "borrowed" much material to create many of Zep's hit tracks without credit being given. I still do enjoy his music but think that was a crappy approach
(see the attachment, you can find most of these on amazon.com for a quick audio reference)
 Zep_songs.doc ( 81K ) : 481

There are key riffs signatured by him that I will incorporate in a lesson. I do think his studio work was genius and he did influence many players including me so I believe he is somewhat worthy of a lesson

Posted by: fkalich Jul 8 2008, 07:30 PM

You are making the same mistake, as is made in the way history is taught to children today. looking as someone from an epoch, and judging him based on standards you have grown up with more recently.

He has no signature statement because he is the most influential heavy guitarist of all time, and his signature statement is what is embedded in what everyone plays today. I am not sure you are the one to do justice to JP, considering how you look at him. I vote for Gabriel.


edit: regarding sloppy, I don't think that the unarguably more employed studio guitarist in England (before he formed LZ) was perceived as a sloppy musician in his time. As in Heartbreaker, sure, slop by today's standards. But the fact is, nobody had done any song even remotely like that before him. What do you want from a Pioneer, a paved Autobahn?

Posted by: Henry Dietzel Jul 8 2008, 07:36 PM

And that is fine, those are your thoughts just like I have presented mine. Jimmy Page is the reason I picked up the guitar in the first place. I merely stated information that I gained years later that shifted my opinion of him a bit......that is all I didn't mean to offend you and apologize if you took some sort of offense from my statement

Posted by: fkalich Jul 8 2008, 09:24 PM

I didn't take offense. People here are way to guarded. Nothing wrong with acting normal, like we all do in social settings, so long as we don't get personal. I don't listen to him any more. Nor do I consider it easy to do a lesson on him, as his influence has been so broad. Specifically in those first 5 albums. I mean, take any of a number of songs. Say, Black Dog. That off rhythm bass line that goes through the song. I invite anyone to find anybody else who did something like this prior to JP. Maybe you can find it, if you look hard enough, but I doubt it. He was innovative, and was so over 5 albums. I can name song after song. Nothing special now, but again, take any, Immigrant song. Find a song like that before Page. "Thank You", find one like that. Composition after composition. Sure not original when people follow that template now, but it sure was then. And in his time, tell me who was appreciably more skilled. Of course he is crap now compared to others.

I am not saying there is any use in a JP lesson today. But I also think that it is easy as time goes by, for people to forget who were the real innovators, and overestimate how creative, innovative their current favorites really are. In 10 years LedZep and Page will still be talked about, 20 years. There is probably not a current guitar hero or band here that will not be for all practical purposes forgotten by then, except maybe Metalica, provided they still show reruns of Bevis and Butthead. There is a reason for that. Guys actually think someone like Vai is going to be remembered. Won't happen. You have to have a number of recognizable compositions, and most people even now don't even know who Vai is, much less his songs.

edit: If anyone gets remembered, I think it will be Yngwie. He has not had much in the way of composition, but he invented a unique style, that I think as time goes on will become more mainstream, and he will be recognized for that.

Posted by: wrk Jul 8 2008, 10:06 PM

Did Muris really wrote that Jimmy Page does not have a unique style?
Maybe i know all the LedZep songs to well, but i have the impression i hear a few notes and i'm sure it's JP. There seems to be something unique then or not?

fkalich .. i thought it would never happen, but on your last comment i completely agree with you!!

Posted by: Henry Dietzel Jul 8 2008, 10:06 PM

wrk,

I am not sure. I did not read that straight from Muris' it was taken out of context from fkalich's first post.



fkalich
You make interesting points. It sadens me to think that many bands from all era's with little talent will be remembered not because of their skills as musicians but because of a catchy song that works well at weddings or a sports event. I agree many people are unfamiliar with Vai & even Yngwie is not to well known outside our circle with mainstream popularity. I will also agree that Zep will most likely continue to receive play for years to come.

My only point was that stealing from other artists that were not well known at the time and then trying to discredit them when it arose is a classless, spiteful act, and as a musician I can not and will not ever condone JP's actions. I think a true musician knows how to apply ones influences and creatively express them without allowing one to infringe on anothers creative expression.

That is all I have to say

Posted by: jacmoe Jul 8 2008, 10:11 PM

The problem with Page is that he more or less invented each and every rock cliché.
If he did not invent it himself, he made it mainstream.
Now, four decades later, we think of him as a cliché and forget where they all came from.'
Just my two cents.

But - I agree with Henry - give credit where credit is due. Always. Or shameth!

Posted by: wrk Jul 8 2008, 11:48 PM

I'm sure Muris was not meaning it like this ..




I agree with you, to give no credits is disrespectful, but i think that this document is a kind of questionable.
Seeing a list of 4 pages is a kind of impressive, but a lot entries are a joke in there or not? ... similar drum line ... similar song title but not the music .. intro chords are similar .. etc... some others i would name as influences, but has it the quality of stealing? Not sure ..

The main disturbing point is, it is not mentioned if credits were given or not for each listed point.

Maybe you are right and you have more in depth information that LedZep used to choose the easy way for their songs. It's just, a document, written like that, can easily have the wrong effect ..

Posted by: FilipofCroatia Jun 10 2009, 10:58 PM

He is only seen as sloppy because Zep improvised constantly in live performances which inevitably led to some mistakes being made live. Its how he recovers from them that is more impressive if anything!

Jimmy Page is my no1 guitarist of all time - i wont have anybody bad mouth him lol - just kidding =D

I guess its down to matter of opinion - but if i could inherit any one's talent it would be Jimmy Page. So many hits....

Here is a pic when i went to see Led Zep at their one off come back gig in 2007 =D lucky meeee! I got the t-shirt baby! lol

Posted by: fkalich Jun 10 2009, 11:48 PM

Correct. To understand past events, times, in a correct way, you have to be able to forget everything that has happened since those times, and look at them in that context. If you forget everything after 1972, and look at Zep, they sure stand out head and shoulders above anyone else that preceded them. If you look at the Beatles and forget everything after 1963, they stand out like a sky scraper in small town in Iowa. That is how you have to look at it. Anybody in the past few decades like that? Don't think so.

edit: Oh, nobody has done a lesson, but there is on lesson, the AudioPaal with Muris, that sounds Pagey. Someone said it sounds like Slash. Elvis impersonators all look like Elvis also. Kidding, Slash is more than that, but Page was his biggest influence I am pretty sure.

Posted by: blindwillie Jun 11 2009, 07:30 AM

For once I have to agree with you!

People say he has no unique style and in a way that's true because he fiddled around and mixed lots of styles.
Which, to me, in some way is what defined Page's style.
He "stole" a lot from the old blues guys, amongst others, but I would rather call it "got inspired from" than "stole from".

If someone says Paige stole and had no unique style he must admit by that standard that there haven't been many blues players with their own material and unique style. That's how the blues spread, by inspiring other players. Or, if prefered, stealing from each other.

What surprises me with Paige is his interrest and understanding of different blues aspects. Where did he get that from?