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GMC Forum _ PRACTICE ROOM _ How Do You Start A Composition?
Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Mar 12 2014, 02:30 PM
Hey guys! As many of you must know, I'm doing some Creativity Workouts at my personal board that are giving amazing results. This gave me the idea to invite everybody to share what's the most used way you start a composition.
Is it just something that magically appears? Do you sit down and force yourself to compose? Does it appear while you are practicing, when you are listening to music? at the bathroom? while reading a book? while watching a movie? while talking with a friend? When you are sad?
Please share your experiences and even your compositions if you think that the result is related to the starting way.
Posted by: klasaine Mar 12 2014, 03:05 PM
Good question.
I don't really write that much on my own. I'm better as a collaborator and an arranger. When I do come up with an idea it's usually when I'm playing something that I already know and then it evolves into something that I don't know.
*I also go back through all my little notebooks of 'ideas'.
I'm in a band that writes collectively. At the beginning of each rehearsal (2 or 3 times a month) we just start jamming. No set key, no set groove - sometimes it's just sound/noise. For 10 or 20 minutes. We record the whole thing. There's usually one riff or chord change in the mess that's worth saving and then building on.
Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Mar 12 2014, 03:25 PM
Beautiful way to create music man. This is exactly how I think you can compose genuine music as a band. Music that appears thanks to the connection of human being making music, there is a lot of chaos, but if you clean it, you will find top quality stuff. Keep on experimenting in that way.
Posted by: klasaine Mar 12 2014, 04:18 PM
There's a whole record that evolved that way ... http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/hellbat
Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Mar 12 2014, 04:36 PM
Interesting. I will check them later. Do you know those guys?
Posted by: Spock Mar 12 2014, 05:27 PM
I do it based on the drum beat. I have always loved tight heavy rhythms and I find inspiration depending on whatever beat is being played. You must have a recorder going though, because the next time you sit down to the same beat - the rhythm in your head is gone forever.
I would love to compose through melody, like a piano, or be able to hum a song idea and play it on cue, but I'm not that gifted. At the same time, Once I have come up with the initial song idea, it's easy to lay a melody on top of the rhythm and typically my initial guitar part turns into the bass part and the guitar part is written to a melody.
I'll run back to my set-up and try to give an example of a song evolution, I've been wanting to record with my new ZW EMGs, JVM 410 and PodHD500X - this is a great opportunity.
This will take the rest of the day. 
Posted by: klasaine Mar 12 2014, 06:13 PM
Yeah, I'm in the band.
Posted by: Caelumamittendum Mar 12 2014, 06:32 PM
It used to be a magic out-of-nowhere thing for me, where I'd just have whole ideas for songs with all instruments in my head. Those days are gone now though and I can't seem to come up with anything useful...
Posted by: Spock Mar 12 2014, 09:15 PM
Well, I just finished recording the song I was working on and at this point I'm too embarrassed to post it - I need to work on levels and some background guitars first.
Posted by: verciazghra Mar 12 2014, 09:41 PM
For me it usually starts with some kind of concept mostly stuff derived from my own experiences or views on anything. It can be something as silly as a "wrong step" or how a tree's leafs flutter in the wind or something more abstract like trying to imagine how alien invisible plants would sound. Or I just start writing and the feeling then generally appears in mid-process which kind of propells the piece in whatever direction it seems to wanna go. I'm a bit all over the place when I write and usually I end up with songs with complex harmonic structures in 11/16th... been considering if i'm suffering from arrhitmia like Don Ellis or why I tend to be able to feel odd signatures more naturally than 3/4 or 4/4, but hey, that's just me...
Posted by: Monica Gheorghevici Mar 13 2014, 08:41 AM
Always appear in my mind musical ideas. It's funny but if I hear a noise, even if it's make it by rain or my neighbor working with a drill in a constant rhythm the ideas come in my head. Every noise, every sound and every moods gave me inspiration. It's very hard for someone to understand how it's possible to have so many ideas and I don't have an explanation.
Looks magically but all this good thing have a bad side not funny at all. If I don't improvise something for 2-3 days, even a little short thing, I have headaches and I became very nervous. I always try to avoid this feeling and every day when I touch my guitar I start my warm up improvising something and after that I make my usual practice.
Every day and every thing that I improvise has the same structure as for a song. This thing it's somehow instinctively, I don't try to control this when I don't have a purpose. Also, I never think what notes and modes must put over a backing or in what key is the backing. I just know what should I play to harmonize things but I do this in a unconscious way.
Improvising it's a way to relax myself. Like a good sleep 
Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Mar 13 2014, 10:23 AM
Looks magically but all this good thing have a bad side not funny at all. If I don't improvise something for 2-3 days, even a little short thing, I have headaches and I became very nervous. I always try to avoid this feeling and every day when I touch my guitar I start my warm up improvising something and after that I make my usual practice.
Every day and every thing that I improvise has the same structure as for a song. This thing it's somehow instinctively, I don't try to control this when I don't have a purpose. Also, I never think what notes and modes must put over a backing or in what key is the backing. I just know what should I play to harmonize things but I do this in a unconscious way.
Improvising it's a way to relax myself. Like a good sleep
Practicing anything with full focus and commitment is a form of active meditation. For you, it seems that the form has revealed itself even clearer, in the form of improvising. Keep at it and try to mix the knowledge you get after recording an idea, so that you can make it shinier
Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Mar 13 2014, 12:50 PM
Awesome! Congrats! I found your album at Spotify and have been listening some songs. I like the style. How was the composing and recording process?
Why do you think those days are gone?
Cool! Feel free to post it here or start a new thread! Don't be shy, we can give you very useful feedback.
Looks magically but all this good thing have a bad side not funny at all. If I don't improvise something for 2-3 days, even a little short thing, I have headaches and I became very nervous. I always try to avoid this feeling and every day when I touch my guitar I start my warm up improvising something and after that I make my usual practice.
Every day and every thing that I improvise has the same structure as for a song. This thing it's somehow instinctively, I don't try to control this when I don't have a purpose. Also, I never think what notes and modes must put over a backing or in what key is the backing. I just know what should I play to harmonize things but I do this in a unconscious way.
Improvising it's a way to relax myself. Like a good sleep
verciazghra and Monica's post are very interesting. You both get inspiration from real life. There is some point when / where the exterior reality connects with your unconscious and music takes form. You definitely must work on this, record songs, albums, ideas, you have to take this stuff out. This new music will tell things about you and about the reality, you will learn a lot from it.
Posted by: Caelumamittendum Mar 13 2014, 12:59 PM
Good question! I used to play in a band where I had to write everything, but one day I started running out of ideas. That was step 1.
Then I had a look back at an old project of mine, which I never recorded but just wrote in Guitar Pro when I was like 15. It had lyrics written by a friend and it was actually a really ambitious project. Anyway, I looked back at it, thought it was all crap and wanted to re-write it... so I tried and tried, but whatever I came up with, it never felt good enough to be in the project, but on the other hand I didn't feel like writing anything else. So whatever I came up with was deemed "not good enough". Now, I've put that project behind me and probably won't touch it again, but I'm still feeling the aftershakes of it... in that I try to come up with something which might be decent on its own, but then I can't come up with more parts that fit it etc. And in the end I end up not writing anything.
Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Mar 13 2014, 01:07 PM
Then I had a look back at an old project of mine, which I never recorded but just wrote in Guitar Pro when I was like 15. It had lyrics written by a friend and it was actually a really ambitious project. Anyway, I looked back at it, thought it was all crap and wanted to re-write it... so I tried and tried, but whatever I came up with, it never felt good enough to be in the project, but on the other hand I didn't feel like writing anything else. So whatever I came up with was deemed "not good enough". Now, I've put that project behind me and probably won't touch it again, but I'm still feeling the aftershakes of it... in that I try to come up with something which might be decent on its own, but then I can't come up with more parts that fit it etc. And in the end I end up not writing anything.
How much time have you been feeling this?
Posted by: Caelumamittendum Mar 13 2014, 01:07 PM
Basically since 2006
Posted by: Darius Wave Mar 13 2014, 01:17 PM
For me it's just a melody or riff idea. Sometimes I make a minute of a song withinn 2 hours (full arrange) and the have problems for a few months to finish it because I feel that everything I try to add above that minutes destroys everything. But then comes that "magic moment" of "that's it!" and the song get's finished
Personally I feel very comfortable in position Ken mentioned I can make full arrange within an hour, destroy simple harmonies, add breaks, add varations of main theme, create a bridge...and arrange the drum beat if I have even a very simple, triad based idea made buy someone. Then I feel the flow..
Funny thing is...I can't start form the same point myself. I usually play some simple stuff and think "nope...that's to obvious, let's search for something more advanced" 
Life is funny
Posted by: Caelumamittendum Mar 13 2014, 01:26 PM
Life is funny I tried explaining this to my friend the other day and he didn't seem to understand it. It's weird. I might hear someone play something simple like arpeggiated chords, and I'll think: "Maaaan, that sounds so nice!", but when I try to come up with something myself of a similar ilk, I'll be thinking: "it's too simple and ordinary!"
Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Mar 14 2014, 09:54 AM
Personally I feel very comfortable in position Ken mentioned
I can make full arrange within an hour, destroy simple harmonies, add breaks, add varations of main theme, create a bridge...and arrange the drum beat if I have even a very simple, triad based idea made buy someone. Then I feel the flow..Funny thing is...I can't start form the same point myself. I usually play some simple stuff and think "nope...that's to obvious, let's search for something more advanced"
Life is funny I so understand you mate
For me, it also starts from an idea I hear in my head. I learn how to play it and then record it. From that point on, two things can happen - something sparks forward and I can continue in that very moment until I get a larger structure, or, it stays in that incipient form for months, even years, until at one point it becomes a part of something bigger which I am working on and at some point, I suddenly remember... 'HA! I have that little thing I recorded so long ago! It finally fits somewhere!' That's how it basically goes for me.
Posted by: Caelumamittendum Mar 14 2014, 12:13 PM
For me, it also starts from an idea I hear in my head. I learn how to play it and then record it. From that point on, two things can happen - something sparks forward and I can continue in that very moment until I get a larger structure, or, it stays in that incipient form for months, even years, until at one point it becomes a part of something bigger which I am working on and at some point, I suddenly remember... 'HA! I have that little thing I recorded so long ago! It finally fits somewhere!' That's how it basically goes for me.I need to start doing something like that. Sorting my stuff and actually keeping it instead of just throwing everything out I don't use or don't like at present.
Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Mar 14 2014, 04:20 PM
This is fundamental mate! It's like building our own archive. Things are not clear all the time in our minds, we have to record them or write them and sometimes even recorded have no sense. But if you have them organized in a folder, you can get back and see if your current feeling gives you ideas to continue it, or even sometimes happens that a new idea connects with and older one and everything make sense. You can use half of an old idea with half of the new one, you can use an old intro for a new verse, an old riff for a new chorus. This can becomes very enjoyable if you let your mind and feelings flow without thinking all the time "this is not enough good".
Many times, my initial ideas are poor and seem to be bad, but I record them, re work them, record more ideas over it and finally I have something that I like a lot, and most of the times I end deleting the original idea.
I shared a graphic about "how to be productive" in another thread. I will share here two phrases that consider are directly connected to what I'm trying to say:
- Do a bad first draft, you can't edit a blank page.
- Start "Idea Dump", book for genius ideas that you can't work on now.
Posted by: Caelumamittendum Mar 14 2014, 04:42 PM
Many times, my initial ideas are poor and seem to be bad, but I record them, re work them, record more ideas over it and finally I have something that I like a lot, and most of the times I end deleting the original idea.
I shared a graphic about "how to be productive" in another thread. I will share here two phrases that consider are directly connected to what I'm trying to say:
- Do a bad first draft, you can't edit a blank page.
- Start "Idea Dump", book for genius ideas that you can't work on now.
I've reinstalled everything on my laptop and I'm about to install my VSTs and Cubase, then I'll bring it to my practice room in the attic and try and record something in peace up there, make a folder and save everything. I've just discarded every idea I've had in the past 6 years and not really saved any of them.
Posted by: MonkeyDAthos Mar 14 2014, 05:00 PM
For me isn't How to start but How to End.
There are does random days where i pick guitar pro and start to write lots of stuff, but like always i get kinda stuck, or unhappy with how its going. So i end up with a large amount of unfinish stuff in a folder
Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Mar 15 2014, 11:07 AM
Nothing should go to waste man
I keep my stuff pretty well arranged and organized, so that when the time comes, I am able to find everything quickly and use it at will 
Try creating folders with the following arborescent fashion:
Landmark (For instance GMC Projects) -> year -> month -> project name
Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Mar 15 2014, 03:12 PM
I keep my stuff pretty well arranged and organized, so that when the time comes, I am able to find everything quickly and use it at will Try creating folders with the following arborescent fashion:
Landmark (For instance GMC Projects) -> year -> month -> project name
Besides this, I like to add a word that makes me remember the idea. For example, the last song that we recorded with Cirse, was identified like "Fury" in my archive. This can make the search easier when you get back to the archive.
Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Mar 16 2014, 10:40 AM
You have no clue what silly names we use for identifying songs
Foovelle for instance, comes from Foo Fighters and Chevelle, because there are elements in that idea that remind us of those bands
Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Mar 16 2014, 05:14 PM
Foovelle for instance, comes from Foo Fighters and Chevelle, because there are elements in that idea that remind us of those bands hahaha one of the songs from "Rompiente" was called "Jimmy Fighters" which comes from Jimmy Eat World and Foo Fighters.
Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Mar 17 2014, 08:36 AM
I can SO relate to that It's exactly the sort of thing we are doing!
Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Mar 17 2014, 12:00 PM
I can SO relate to that It's exactly the sort of thing we are doing!and I have a new one that is called "little monkeys" (in Spanish "monitos") because of Artic Monkeys.
Posted by: Britishampfan Mar 18 2014, 05:04 AM
I have always written collaboratively in a band, it`s always a compromise.
Most of my own stuff just starts out of my head, even if I write for other people.
So I have 1st draft with lots of feeling, cool riffs and maybe parts of a song structure.
I try to record any time I pick up a guitar get it all on tape, I don`t worry about timing or mistakes.
As humans we don`t practice conversations they just flow and its fun and enjoyable.
So I get the music on tape, and refine it down from there.
Recording improved my guitar tone into what I wanted for any given project.
The studio is a pipe dream, it`s an illusion where perfection can exist after 400 takes and editing but I`ve never seen one perfect flawless live performance yet by anybody.
I like posting live demos and 1st drafts with all the clams but it`s not the final product. Playing live I just play my best and as long as nothing is glaring people don`t notice the mistakes.
Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Mar 18 2014, 09:02 AM
Most of my own stuff just starts out of my head, even if I write for other people.
So I have 1st draft with lots of feeling, cool riffs and maybe parts of a song structure.
I try to record any time I pick up a guitar get it all on tape, I don`t worry about timing or mistakes.
As humans we don`t practice conversations they just flow and its fun and enjoyable.
So I get the music on tape, and refine it down from there.
Recording improved my guitar tone into what I wanted for any given project.
The studio is a pipe dream, it`s an illusion where perfection can exist after 400 takes and editing but I`ve never seen one perfect flawless live performance yet by anybody.
I like posting live demos and 1st drafts with all the clams but it`s not the final product. Playing live I just play my best and as long as nothing is glaring people don`t notice the mistakes.
Sounds like you are a very organic musician, which is a great thing nowadays, when everyone tries to tweak their sound and playing as much as possible, in the studio. Indeed, you can always see what's what with every band as long as you can also hear them in a live context
About writing, collaborative writing is always the best proof of compositional synergy between people, but sometimes, people are too lazy to co-write and they are just happy to perform what one or two people are writing and orchestrating
Posted by: Jeroen Mar 18 2014, 04:39 PM
I started composing in a different way. What I did was the following. I listened to specific songs of my favourite heavy metal bands and tried if I could come up with similar structures and lead lines as an experiment. Now I know these songs might not stand out in quality, technical level, timing and accuracy but it was sure a lot of fun to do.
What you think of these 2 compositions and can you guys guess which bands are my main influence for these songs?
Song 1 - The ballad (with heavy metal second part)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNU1miJum48&
Song 2 - The Dragonslayer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpO9XtOB3Y0 Jeroen
Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Mar 19 2014, 02:35 AM
Most of my own stuff just starts out of my head, even if I write for other people.
So I have 1st draft with lots of feeling, cool riffs and maybe parts of a song structure.
I try to record any time I pick up a guitar get it all on tape, I don`t worry about timing or mistakes.
As humans we don`t practice conversations they just flow and its fun and enjoyable.
So I get the music on tape, and refine it down from there.
Recording improved my guitar tone into what I wanted for any given project.
The studio is a pipe dream, it`s an illusion where perfection can exist after 400 takes and editing but I`ve never seen one perfect flawless live performance yet by anybody.
I like posting live demos and 1st drafts with all the clams but it`s not the final product. Playing live I just play my best and as long as nothing is glaring people don`t notice the mistakes.
This is a very inspiring post. I like when you compare interacting with musicians and creating music with "talking". That's how I see it. It's a deep conversation, even deeper than most of our talked dialogues. If we achieve to interact in life like most of us do in music we could discover a new level in life.
The second important concept in your post is the "organic" side in music. Computers can make us go to the other side but I prefer the feeling and life that you get when you focus on live recordings, all band together, first takes, improvisations... that's why I love 70's music, bands like Led Zeppelin, Deep Purple. If we look back, their live albums where as popular (and sometimes more) than studio albums. Nowadays, when I get a live album I feel like getting a studio album with audience audio.
What you think of these 2 compositions and can you guys guess which bands are my main influence for these songs?
Song 1 - The ballad (with heavy metal second part)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNU1miJum48&
Song 2 - The Dragonslayer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpO9XtOB3Y0
JeroenHi Jeroen! Your compositions sound killer! You got a very good quality in both tracks. You know, this method is one of my ways to learn students how to compose and I also use it when I compose "in the style of lessons".
Check out the Thrash Metal Course that I gave via Vchat:
http://tinyurl.com/lxlnb84
Posted by: waynedcoville Mar 19 2014, 02:51 AM
there's this thing that Cosmin Does that I do all the time, but he's so much better at actually using it and making it into music. with his mouth he goes: ba dadadada ba duhduhduh grgr, ba dadadada ba duhduhduh grg, deedle do deedle do deedle do deedle do, dun dun dun dun dun duj! and then plays it on his guitar. Im sure he has a word for it. well anyway, I've been practicing with that. lol I just read what I wrote and it looks ridiculous, but hey...
Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Mar 19 2014, 10:05 AM
Hehe! It's only practicing man! I am not so good yet - when I'll be able to instantly reproduce anything with the guitar once I sing it, on the spot, that should be the right level
Sing and play everything you practice and you will slowly get there But be aware to create a connection between the sound, note name and spot on the guitar. In time, this connection will grow stronger!
Posted by: Britishampfan Mar 19 2014, 12:08 PM
I think it`s really important to just play, I think as guitar players we are always hung up on the details and many worry too much about what others think.
I know it`s important to do my own thing and not care about what other people think.
If I want to surprise the audience, I have to surprise myself and that is always risky. I take chances especially live.
Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Mar 19 2014, 01:56 PM
I know it`s important to do my own thing and not care about what other people think.
If I want to surprise the audience, I have to surprise myself and that is always risky. I take chances especially live.
Hi mate! Thanks for your input. I agree with what you say. That's the way to get find your own voice, your own personality as musician. And as the great Dave Grohl says: Who can say that it's wrong?
“There is no right or wrong,” Mr. Grohl said, speaking to more than 1,000 people at the Austin Convention Center. “There is only your voice, your voice screaming through an old recording console, singing from a laptop, echoing from a street corner, a cello, a turntable, a guitar.”
“It doesn’t matter,” he went on. “What matters most is that it’s your voice. Cherish it. Respect it. Nurture it. Challenge it. Stretch it. Scream it until its gone. Because everyone’s blessed with at least that. And who knows how long it will last.”
Posted by: Darius Wave Mar 19 2014, 03:12 PM
Ben and Cosmin - it's probably sort of a curse. How many times did I wonder how cool it was after complete rearrangement of simple chords progression and it gave awesome results...even better when my basic attitude is to create something more twisted. I had and idea that even if trying to make advanced guitar stuff, I will start from making sure my composition is musical and has proper tension build + dynamics. I'll try to start my next one with and acoustic guitar recording backing + melody. Then I'll start to tweak it to the next level.
Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Mar 20 2014, 09:42 AM
Hehe! Darius, I believe that should be our first aim, all the time
It's easy to get lost, especially when you know a lot I have friends in other bands who know just a few chords and they only use those to come up with a ton of nice songs. I guess that it's true when they say that when you have limitations, your creativity is stimulated to a far greater extent.Gabi, we both know, as everyone else should, that whatever Mr. Grohl says should be written in everlasting fire in a Musician's Bible
Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Mar 20 2014, 02:42 PM
It's easy to get lost, especially when you know a lot I have friends in other bands who know just a few chords and they only use those to come up with a ton of nice songs. I guess that it's true when they say that when you have limitations, your creativity is stimulated to a far greater extent.Gabi, we both know, as everyone else should, that whatever Mr. Grohl says should be written in everlasting fire in a Musician's Bible
yeah, Grohl's words must be there for sure. Everything he says is pure inspiration.
Posted by: Darius Wave Mar 20 2014, 05:06 PM
The truth is not many people understand music that is beyond the limit of what could be called "regular". People like simplicity, melodies "they heard somewhere" and sometimes (in case of guitar) the wind on the neck (it doesn't even have to be precise - how many people will catch You making mistakes? only the small group of pros I suspect) so it's always a hard way when you know too much
Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Mar 21 2014, 08:44 AM
- how many people will catch You making mistakes? only the small group of pros I suspect) so it's always a hard way when you know too much Man, you should read that book - The Zen Guitar
You're gonna like it You know, I am slowly becoming one of those guys who like apparently simple things, but having a lot of power in them! For instance, I simply can't listen to Dream Theater's new music anymore, because it's just sports and no music But I could listen to Bach all day long - complex yet so beautiful
Posted by: Darius Wave Mar 21 2014, 12:24 PM
Man...Man I wish I had some time to read any book
Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Mar 21 2014, 07:13 PM
You're gonna like it You know, I am slowly becoming one of those guys who like apparently simple things, but having a lot of power in them! For instance, I simply can't listen to Dream Theater's new music anymore, because it's just sports and no music But I could listen to Bach all day long - complex yet so beautiful That's a very nice book. I've read it in the past. I understand what you mean. If you listen to Cirse, you will surely see that I took the same way than you. I do "sports" for practice at home and make music with my band.
Posted by: Mertay Mar 21 2014, 08:28 PM
You're gonna like it You know, I am slowly becoming one of those guys who like apparently simple things, but having a lot of power in them! For instance, I simply can't listen to Dream Theater's new music anymore, because it's just sports and no music But I could listen to Bach all day long - complex yet so beautiful I feel the same, also you're into Japanese sword fight(Kendo?
) right? sorry for my ignorance A good friend of mine who is a classical guitar teacher in a college read "zen of arrow shooting" (don't know the original name sorry), and his teacher practiced kung-fu
Besides taking 5 lessons of kung-fu I never actually got into the zen idea but I think I'm starting to get it, its like taking control over the supercomputer inside your head and adapting it to the body I guess? at least thats what I feel
About topic; I never look at my previous compositions, whenever I listen them my head starts to function like the time it was being written
It simply won't let the earned vision adapt into it, probably a musical memory thing kicking in that isn't useful to me at all
Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Mar 22 2014, 03:22 PM
) right? sorry for my ignorance A good friend of mine who is a classical guitar teacher in a college read "zen of arrow shooting" (don't know the original name sorry), and his teacher practiced kung-fu
Besides taking 5 lessons of kung-fu I never actually got into the zen idea but I think I'm starting to get it, its like taking control over the supercomputer inside your head and adapting it to the body I guess? at least thats what I feel
About topic; I never look at my previous compositions, whenever I listen them my head starts to function like the time it was being written
It simply won't let the earned vision adapt into it, probably a musical memory thing kicking in that isn't useful to me at all Hehe! You are not far
What I practice is not kendo, but kenjutsu - which is the actual sword technique from which the kendo was born. Kendo is a modern style transformed into a sport, while kenjutsu is considered as classical, real sword fighting.Your teacher practices kyudo
And you should definitely try understanding and practicing a zen guided living style. It will definitely improve everything in your life, including the guitar playing. You will most probably understand more about yourself and learn how to make peace with what you written, in respect to what you said above
Posted by: Darius Wave Mar 24 2014, 10:43 AM
I usually try to balance things for particular music project. I usually don't use much of "racing" on the records for any of my bands but sometimes I'm aked to "show off" by a band But of course music is the purpose. It's good to be able to "race" because it makes Your regular band playing piece of cake even when You're tired or...drunk a bit ....
Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Mar 25 2014, 08:05 AM
But of course music is the purpose. It's good to be able to "race" because it makes Your regular band playing piece of cake even when You're tired or...drunk a bit ....Mate, you are right, it's great to be able to but it's not at all great to be led by it
Unfortunately, I know more people who are led by fast playing rather than be able to do it and just throw it in occasionally, when the context asks for it and I am sure you know a lot of them too
Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Mar 25 2014, 01:28 PM
Unfortunately, I know more people who are led by fast playing rather than be able to do it and just throw it in occasionally, when the context asks for it and I am sure you know a lot of them too yeah, but always remember Malmsteen's quote: More is more.
Posted by: Britishampfan Apr 18 2014, 07:05 AM
Great posts guys!
I grew up in era of metal, yes I am middle aged now. I remember if you could`nt finger tap like eddie or know at least 3 maiden songs and some slayer nobody would take you seriously as a guitarist. I was 16.
I had to listen to albums over and over to get the sound right, now I just look at the tab online, correct it as it`s usually wrong and I can learn many songs note for note in a day.
I dunno I kinda have been out of shred for awhile, but over the last day I played for 6 hours yesterday and 5 today and came up with my own interpretation of a Bminor blues zep number since I`ve been loving you.
I tried to capture Page and some modern Bonnamassa blues riffs, added in some Malmsteen infused with my own style with it. I went for a tasteful passionate shred based on a great song.
My wife hates metal, but since I`ve been playing in a blues rock band she loves it, even goes to gigs. So I had her in my recording studio got everything set up and performed my semi original new effort, and yes it was fast very complicated and I was burning up the fret board.
She fell asleep. She wakes says um yeah you rock, now play me something nice.
Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Apr 18 2014, 10:47 AM
Now, each of us is touched by something else In some situations, we can deliver what the listener wants in others we can't. If your wife supports you with your music, she very much deserves some blues rock to soothe her ears from time to time I think that if one cherishes something you play and if that person is dear to you, you should take the time to give them a little treat periodically on the music they like to hear from you
Posted by: Britishampfan Apr 18 2014, 08:22 PM
In some situations, we can deliver what the listener wants in others we can't. If your wife supports you with your music, she very much deserves some blues rock to soothe her ears from time to time I think that if one cherishes something you play and if that person is dear to you, you should take the time to give them a little treat periodically on the music they like to hear from you But but but she was supposed to be floored by my lead guitar playing.
Thats why metal is such a sausage fest I guess, the girls want a good song.
Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Apr 19 2014, 03:11 AM
Thats why metal is such a sausage fest I guess, the girls want a good song.
hahaha exactly, and I could say that most of the people (not only girls) prefers a good song than a virtuoso guitarist. Let's suppose this two situations:
1. The band has very bad songs, no sense of structure, not interesting parts, nothing catchy, but the guitarist plays like Van Halen.
2. The band has fantastic songs, very well arranged and ejected but the guitarist just plays chords and some melodies.
Which situation would you preffer? (we should start a poll
)
Posted by: Amir Razmara Apr 19 2014, 03:12 AM
Are you composing? or decomposing? that is the question an old theory professor asked me when I was studying Music in college in late 90's.
The question of this thread is: "what's the most used way you start a composition". After reading all the replays here this is what I get.
- Concept/Idea: naked in the rain
- Imagination: dum dum dum....that nice song you hear in your head
- Stimulation: which can be a drill making it's way through your wall
- Collaboration: lot of sweaty guys in one room
- Imitation/modeling: stealing a bands entire catalog
- improvisation : what is that?
I'm trying to inject some humor in to this. yes it would be nice to get some practical tips on how to compose because I think the deeper question here is "how to become an effective composer". why is it that some musicians out there can't compose, at least nothing that can go that far, while others can churn up symphonies and albums one after the other? it's good to think about it. Do you have the knowledge and discipline that is needed to compose?
The knowledge of a Painter is rooted on anatomy and perspective. Architects draw their plans according to the maxims of geometry and proportion, musicians should base their practices on principles discovered by reason. Composition is defined as "the act of combining parts or elements to form a whole". what are the elements relevant to music? Rhythm, melody, harmony, lyrics, all of which have various elements obviously, but any one of these elements can be used to start a composition. For example how many songs do you know that start with just rhythm? few words on discipline.
Imagine this scenario: Sam worked out at the gym regularly for few years and worked his way up so he could lift 130 pounds. For some reason he stopped going to the gym for 8 months until yesterday. He goes in figures he could barely lift 90 pounds let alone 130. obviously he has to work his way up again slowly if he wants to avoid injuries. My point is composition is also a discipline. It is something you got to do regularly over time in small chunks to get better at it. I would like to see you guys elaborate more on this thread.
Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Apr 19 2014, 04:16 AM
that is the question an old theory professor asked me when I was studying Music in college in late 90's. The question of this thread is: "what's the most used way you start a composition". After reading all the replays here this is what I get.
- Concept/Idea: naked in the rain
- Imagination: dum dum dum....that nice song you hear in your head
- Stimulation: which can be a drill making it's way through your wall
- Collaboration: lot of sweaty guys in one room
- Imitation/modeling: stealing a bands entire catalog
- improvisation : what is that?
I'm trying to inject some humor in to this. yes it would be nice to get some practical tips on how to compose because I think the deeper question here is "how to become an effective composer". why is it that some musicians out there can't compose, at least nothing that can go that far, while others can churn up symphonies and albums one after the other? it's good to think about it. Do you have the knowledge and discipline that is needed to compose?
The knowledge of a Painter is rooted on anatomy and perspective. Architects draw their plans according to the maxims of geometry and proportion, musicians should base their practices on principles discovered by reason. Composition is defined as "the act of combining parts or elements to form a whole". what are the elements relevant to music? Rhythm, melody, harmony, lyrics, all of which have various elements obviously, but any one of these elements can be used to start a composition. For example how many songs do you know that start with just rhythm? few words on discipline.
Imagine this scenario: Sam worked out at the gym regularly for few years and worked his way up so he could lift 130 pounds. For some reason he stopped going to the gym for 8 months until yesterday. He goes in figures he could barely lift 90 pounds let alone 130. obviously he has to work his way up again slowly if he wants to avoid injuries. My point is composition is also a discipline. It is something you got to do regularly over time in small chunks to get better at it. I would like to see you guys elaborate more on this thread.
Good post Amir! You are right, composition is something that can be trained, and the more you compose, the easier it becomes. Gab's Army is each day more oriented to composition and creativity and we are starting to have great results that confirm that practice, discipline and decision are fundamental things in this topic.
Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Apr 19 2014, 04:05 PM
that is the question an old theory professor asked me when I was studying Music in college in late 90's. The question of this thread is: "what's the most used way you start a composition". After reading all the replays here this is what I get.
- Concept/Idea: naked in the rain
- Imagination: dum dum dum....that nice song you hear in your head
- Stimulation: which can be a drill making it's way through your wall
- Collaboration: lot of sweaty guys in one room
- Imitation/modeling: stealing a bands entire catalog
- improvisation : what is that?
I'm trying to inject some humor in to this. yes it would be nice to get some practical tips on how to compose because I think the deeper question here is "how to become an effective composer". why is it that some musicians out there can't compose, at least nothing that can go that far, while others can churn up symphonies and albums one after the other? it's good to think about it. Do you have the knowledge and discipline that is needed to compose?
The knowledge of a Painter is rooted on anatomy and perspective. Architects draw their plans according to the maxims of geometry and proportion, musicians should base their practices on principles discovered by reason. Composition is defined as "the act of combining parts or elements to form a whole". what are the elements relevant to music? Rhythm, melody, harmony, lyrics, all of which have various elements obviously, but any one of these elements can be used to start a composition. For example how many songs do you know that start with just rhythm? few words on discipline.
Imagine this scenario: Sam worked out at the gym regularly for few years and worked his way up so he could lift 130 pounds. For some reason he stopped going to the gym for 8 months until yesterday. He goes in figures he could barely lift 90 pounds let alone 130. obviously he has to work his way up again slowly if he wants to avoid injuries. My point is composition is also a discipline. It is something you got to do regularly over time in small chunks to get better at it. I would like to see you guys elaborate more on this thread.
Great post Amir!
I mentioned this a few times before, but I had thought that I would never write ONE entire song all my life
At some point, a very good friend and future band mate at that time, started teaching me how to use a DAW and record guitars, write virtual instruments and so on... my world changed forever. I could lay down what I heard in my head and from that point on, I started writing - small pieces, long pieces, simple or complicated pieces. I often imitated concepts I heard in songs I liked and I started understanding structures, how to link parts, how to write drum lines that serve a riff or how to build a riff based on a given drum line.There is much to talk about and elaborate on the matter, but this is how it went for me
Posted by: Amir Razmara Apr 20 2014, 05:38 PM
I mentioned this a few times before, but I had thought that I would never write ONE entire song all my life
At some point, a very good friend and future band mate at that time, started teaching me how to use a DAW and record guitars, write virtual instruments and so on... my world changed forever. I could lay down what I heard in my head and from that point on, I started writing - small pieces, long pieces, simple or complicated pieces. I often imitated concepts I heard in songs I liked and I started understanding structures, how to link parts, how to write drum lines that serve a riff or how to build a riff based on a given drum line.There is much to talk about and elaborate on the matter, but this is how it went for me
Hi Cosmin
I agree with you. Having access to means to production is imperative for those who reach a respectable level of skill and musicianship.
In a way it is similar to getting your drivers license. before you get it you can't go anywhere, but when you do you have this great freedom.
As far as Imitating and modeling I thing it is a natural thing to do because in my opinion humans are learning creatures. If you trace it back to human evolution you find that we learn how to speak our language by imitating those around us in the early part of our development.. but learning and imitating is always there as we go through different stages of human growth because we're always effected by what we see and hear around us.
Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Apr 21 2014, 08:43 AM
I agree with you. Having access to means to production is imperative for those who reach a respectable level of skill and musicianship.
In a way it is similar to getting your drivers license. before you get it you can't go anywhere, but when you do you have this great freedom.
As far as Imitating and modeling I thing it is a natural thing to do because in my opinion humans are learning creatures. If you trace it back to human evolution you find that we learn how to speak our language by imitating those around us in the early part of our development.. but learning and imitating is always there as we go through different stages of human growth because we're always effected by what we see and hear around us.
Very well said
In order to learn something you must first imitate and then personalize. Now, in a lot of cases, people stick to imitating, unfortunately, but if we could make those proverbial two steps back in order to figure out that we also need to make the second step, things would get much more creative Some people are scared to get out of their imitating habits - it's safe to be like someone else because you already know what that person did is working. But HE did it already, so why aren't you doing something of your own? That should be the question that could make someone at least start figuring out where they are
Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Apr 21 2014, 08:55 PM
In order to learn something you must first imitate and then personalize. Now, in a lot of cases, people stick to imitating, unfortunately, but if we could make those proverbial two steps back in order to figure out that we also need to make the second step, things would get much more creative Some people are scared to get out of their imitating habits - it's safe to be like someone else because you already know what that person did is working. But HE did it already, so why aren't you doing something of your own? That should be the question that could make someone at least start figuring out where they are
This is turning a very interesting thread. Copying is a good first exercise to train our abilities and to slowly start to discover our own style and personality in every aspect of life. We are unique and that's what makes us special. Why would we just stick on the first step and lose the possibility of discovering what our soul is trying to express.
Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Apr 22 2014, 04:40 PM
Indeed it is
I think that you need to copy something in order to understand a principle and then, transform the principle in order to evoke it in your own manner. At least this is what I am trying to do - sometimes it works immediately, sometimes it doesn't It's all trial and error, so be curious and explore all the time!
Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Apr 26 2014, 03:45 PM
I think that you need to copy something in order to understand a principle and then, transform the principle in order to evoke it in your own manner. At least this is what I am trying to do - sometimes it works immediately, sometimes it doesn't It's all trial and error, so be curious and explore all the time!This is how it also works for me and I really enjoy with both results, when it works immediately, which seems to be more natural, and when it takes more time to understand and incorporate the style, which could end with a deeper result.
Posted by: Capasso2300 Apr 26 2014, 05:11 PM
You guys ever transition from thinking it was all feel at one point......and then later you learn your theory, and it's still you feel where the music should go next, but your brain now makes the connection to go to the 4 chord, or 5 chord, so you start to feel like you write music more based on the theory than the feel. Although it's all semantics really lol
Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Apr 27 2014, 01:14 PM
Ah, au contraire I am writing more based on feeling rather than theory as I stated in this thread, I think But theory helps a lot when I need to change a direction or create counterpoint or replace some notes for a different effect - you know, understanding what you do, in order to be at ease with changing things in a knowledgeable manner and being able to communicate efficiently with those around you that need to understand what to do when working with you.
Posted by: Capasso2300 Apr 28 2014, 08:33 PM
I am writing more based on feeling rather than theory as I stated in this thread, I think But theory helps a lot when I need to change a direction or create counterpoint or replace some notes for a different effect - you know, understanding what you do, in order to be at ease with changing things in a knowledgeable manner and being able to communicate efficiently with those around you that need to understand what to do when working with you.Well said = )
Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Apr 29 2014, 07:52 AM
Thank you man
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