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Posted by: beebo Aug 8 2009, 12:25 AM

Ok ive been playing for a long time now and some of u have seen my playing and think im pretty good BUTT it was all by ear so i wanna get in2 theory now and maybe expand my playing...i looked threw Andrew's Theory Posts but i have no clue where 2 start bcuz i understand nothing! I would love for someone 2 help me i cant view the lessons only in the forums and ik it will be tough but im hoping u guys can give me pointers how 2 start *and how 2 understand it all * if u guys dont mind would u help me get started and in a good path toward learning scales and all that complicated stuff inbetween and how to use them and JUST ALL THAT GOOD STUFF ! ?

Posted by: Fusar Aug 8 2009, 12:37 AM

Did you start right there: http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_forum/index.php?showtopic=3351 ? Otherwise it's very irritating if you start with the modes
But tell us more where you have problems to understand, ask questions in the single theory topics if you don't understand things, people are great here to help you !
Jamming seems very good to use the theory...but I think here are more experienced players who are able to give you more details about using theory and learning scales and all this stuff...

Posted by: Ignite Aug 8 2009, 01:03 AM

Thats funny I know a hella lot of theory, and now i'm starting to use my ear. Well I have been using my ear, but i'm training for perfect pitch

Posted by: Muris Varajic Aug 8 2009, 01:53 AM

Sorry for being off topic,
but why do you need perfect pitch for?

Posted by: Caelumamittendum Aug 8 2009, 02:03 AM

From what I've heard having perfect pitch is one of the most annoying things. I'm not sure if one can acquire it through learning in the same way as having been born with it. But I've heard a few mention how you can hear even the smallest wrong pitched notes. And I know from just my occasionally good ear, that I get very annoyed when I can hear that some chords sounds off while others don't, due to the way the guitar neck is set up, all chords cannot be in perfect pitch. My guitar probably could be set up better, so that one wouldn't hear it that much though... but I remember suddenly getting annoyed at the way Fmajor sounded out of tune, while an open Emajor chord sounded fine. I checked by the tuner and while the E chord was almost perfectly intonating, the F chord was like a fraction off on the tuner. That kinda things still annoy me, and I don't have even close to relative pitch! So I couldn't imagine living with perfect pitch!

Posted by: Ignite Aug 8 2009, 05:54 AM

Not necessarily "perfect" pitch, just be able to think of a lick and play it perfectly, I can play fine now and think of licks and be able to play something similar, but being able to think of licks and improvise on the spot using my ear would be cool.

Posted by: Oxac Aug 8 2009, 06:13 AM

that's not prefect pitch. Perfect pitch is to be able to tell the exact note someone's playing without a reference.

Posted by: Muris Varajic Aug 8 2009, 10:42 AM

Yeah, that would be relative pitch and it's much more useful instead of perfect one imho.

Posted by: Ivan Milenkovic Aug 8 2009, 11:21 AM

I suggest starting out with intervals, it's the basic thing that you should learn before going further:

INTERVALS:

As atoms are building bloks or matter, intervals are the building blocks of melody and harmony. A good definition of an interval is "the space between the notes". On the next example you can observe the list of basic intervals starting from C:
notes_interval names
C (root)
Db minor 2nd (half step)
D major 2nd (whole step)
Eb minor third
E major third
F perfect 4th
F#(or Gb) tritone (augmented 4th for F# or diminished 5th for Gb)
G perfect 5th
G# (Ab) augmented 5th for G# or minor 6th for Ab
A major 6th
A# (Bb) augmented 6th for A# or minor 7th for Bb
B major 7th
C octave

here are some very well known melodies that use common intervals for ear training:

interval - tunes
minor 2nd Theme from Jaws
major 2nd Happy Birthday
minor 3rd Chopin’s Funeral March
major 3rd Kum Ba Ya
perfect 4th Here Comes The Bride
tritone Theme from The Simpsons
perfect 5th Theme from Star Wars, Twinkle Twinkle Little Star
minor 6th The Entertainer (3rd to 4th note)
major 6th Nobody Knows The Trouble I’ve Seen (descending), NBC Theme
minor 7th Theme from the original Star Trek, Somewhere from West Side Story
major 7th Bali Hai (Up an octave, then down a half step)
octave Somewhere Over The Rainbow


Inverting intervals:

An important skill all musicians must have, especially when transposing is the ability to invert intervals. If you have to transpose a tune "up a major 6th" on the spot, you'll probably find it easier to transpose it "down a minor 3rd", which is the same thing. A 3rd is a lot closer than 6th. In other words, you need to know that a major 6th inverts to a minor 3rd. When you invert an interval, you take the bottom not and put it on top, or vice versa. The result is a new interval, and the rules for inverting intervals are simple.

When you invert an interval:

- Major becomes minor
- Minor becomes major
- Perfect remains perfect
- Tritone remains tritone (augmented becomes diminished and vice versa)
- the old and new intervals add up to nine

For example:

1. If you invert a major 3rd of C (that would be E) it becomes E with C on top, a minor 6th. Major becomes minor, and three plus six add up to nine.
2. If you invert minor 2nd it becomes major 7th. Minor becomes major and two plus seven add up to nine.

To really learn the intervals properly, you should sing them as part of your daily practice routine. You don't need guitar to do this (unless you're a singer), so you can practice in the shower, in the card etc.
In addition, practice singing along with your favorite records, melodies, solos etc. You have to train your ear like this because a good solo consists largely of playing on gutiar what you hear in your head.

(to be continued..)

Posted by: Staffy Aug 8 2009, 11:37 AM

My Granddad had perfect pitch, it was awful for him, because he couldn't listen to music that was just slightly out of tune. Relative pitch is far more effecient, and can also be trained .... :-)

Posted by: Jakub Luptovec Aug 8 2009, 12:35 PM

And even relative pitch can be pain in the... ear - I have problems at parties, when my pals listen to some trash music (that hip hop, dance, techno and other rubbish) I can hear all the disonnances, bad "note" choices and rythm issues in it, which causes me having a VERY edgy mood and my friends have no idea what I am talking about...

Btw. I learned theory through modes. Start with pentatonics (not necesarilly all over the neck, much more important is the relationship between minor and major boxes - relative majors and minors) then major and minor scale and start digging the intervals inside - then jump on modes and study the relationship between modes and learn first boxes of all modes.

Few months later, when playing in say C Ionian, you will have the whole freboard at your disposal, thanks to the modes (C ionan = D dorian = E phrygian...). It takes more time, but its worht it in the end..