5/4 for sure (but I love how the drums keeps it on 2 and 4 as much as possible).
not positive about the mode yet.

My guess for modes are:

E Aeolian

then @ 1:15 shifts into E Ionian to G Ionian ?

I'm with DeGroot - Aeolian(?)
The Cmaj7#11 gives it up.

Right! Both mode and time signature! So, who will continue? Ken or DG?

I'll go ahead, if Ken doesn't mind, to keep the thread rolling.

I was surprised when I figured out what mode this piece is in.

The Opeth is in F minor and uses both E natural and Eb.
I'd like to say that it's the 'Baroque' application of Melodic Minor (asc mel. min/desc nat. min) but I don't hear any Db.
I don't know - you got me.


Next ...

The solo from 1:02 to 2:58 (guitar and violin)



There is more than one correct answer (as far as the 'root' is concerned) because the chords are a little ambiguous/deceptive. Also the second change has an 'out' note in it though the soloists rarely (if ever?) hit that note. They stay in the mode 99% of the time. The violin solo simplifies the mode even further (Jean Luc Ponty).

This post has been edited by klasaine: Feb 18 2013, 09:34 PM

I came up with F Harmonic minor (with the E natural) for the majority. But now I'm a stumped with the Eb. Possibly switching between Harmonic and natural minor mode? If someone has a final conclusion it would be appreciated.

That's why I say 'classical' melodic minor.
The trad mel.min. ascends F G Ab Bb C D E F and descends F Eb Db C Bb Ab G F (which is natural minor or Aeolian).

*The reason is because when you descend melodic minor it doesn't 'sound' like a minor scale until you hit the Ab (thinking backwards, the 6th scale tone) - it's the same as a major scale until that point descending.

Actually, in the case of the Opeth, I would guess that it's really not 'mode' or scale specific - just general F minor because he plays Bb major and C major chords so there's no Db at all (the 3rd of a Bb minor chord) which is the better indicator of both natural and harmonic minor - IMO.

This post has been edited by klasaine: Feb 18 2013, 11:44 PM

Thanks for the explanation on the Opeth piece.

So, my guess for Mahavishnu Orchestra is F# Mixolydian ?

Yes sir, that works.
Though the 'home' key is C# dorian, F# mixo has all the same notes.
The two chords you hear bouncing back and forth are C#m9 and D#m.
McLaughlin anchors on B major a lot and plays major/ionian sounding lines - at least to me(?). Luc Ponty squarely sits in C#m and plays a lot of C#m pentatonic lines.

*The out or off mode note in the accompaniment is in the middle of the D#m chord. There's an F natural (E#) in there in the middle register of the chord making it a D#m9 (parallel voicing with the C#m9 - common modal jazz thing).
x x 13 9 9 x to x x 15 11 11 x
(and it's in 5/4)

This post has been edited by klasaine: Feb 19 2013, 04:13 PM

I was debating between the two modes. My gut feeling was initially C# dorian (with the ii chord in B major) and then I changed my answer. The McLaughlin solo just gave me a Mixolydian vibe at moments. It is interesting to see this with a thorough break down.

That's a good observation regarding JM's dominant 7th 'feel'.
McLaughlin definitely seems to like the dom7 sound and 'adjusts' his orientation accordingly - i.e., intervallic playing that spells F#7 as opposed to C#m. Many improvising musicians do that - especially the jazz players. The guitarist Pat Martino had a period where he converted everything he could to dorian (example: F7 = C dorian ... Am7b5 = C dorian ... Ebmaj7#11 = C dorian, etc.) *And it works BEAUTIFULLY!
Caveat - you do need to know what your key center actually is though.

This post has been edited by klasaine: Feb 20 2013, 06:32 PM

Alright gents, I'll add another



Guess the mode!

Lydian/Dominant - 4th mode of the melodic minor scale.

*When I learned it in the late 70s we called it the 'overtone' scale because the #4 and the b7 are the naturally occurring overtones. In South Indian Classical music it's called Vachaspathi.

Awesome Bart Simpson Morning Raga?

I was sure you would nail this instantly, but I couldn't resist posting it - what do you have in the trick bag for us, Ken?

Time for a new one!



I got no clue on this, so I thought that maybe someone who is experienced in this sort of music will tell

Wow! Good one. No real idea, I'm totally out of my league here but this is what it 'sounds' like to me ...

I don't think it's one specific mode. Here's why ...
It's a more recent ensemble (duo in this case) playing this version of a traditional piece. The ensemble is called Zumi Kai, a group that 'stretches' the tradition apparently - ?
Having said that, once they settle in it sounds to my western ears like G phryg sans the Bb (it's called G in-sen sometimes - G Ab C D Eb G) but at about 6:00 they shift to A for awhile, then back.

Really beautiful!

This post has been edited by klasaine: Mar 12 2013, 06:38 AM

So in-sen I thought so too but I also thought I should ask first

I have been playing around with in-sen, hirajoshi, yona nuki and 2-3 more Japanese scales as well - btw, this is a track over which I'm practicing battojutsu techniques - it's very inspiring and well written in order for me to immerse myself in that state of mind. Do you know other pieces like this?

I don't know anything about Japanese music. Just 'the most basic' of stuff (like In-Sen) that's been co-opted and worked into Western music. Jazzers in the mid 60s like Wayne Shorter and McCoy Tyner adopted using In-sen a lot (as a simpler replacement for phryg mostly).
When it's done traditionally, as in your example, there's all the 1/4 tones and 'just' temperament that makes it uniquely beautiful.

Thanks man, no problem, I'll keep searching

How about you throw a new one? .. And I won't answer this time I'll let someone else do it, I promise!