I thought this forum was called chill out

This wins 'best comment'

liberals support the fax , thanks , I needed a good laugh


like the fax the democrats have been in control of the senate for 7 years , nancy pelosi failed in her constitutional duty to pass a budget in the house 3 out her 4 years leading it , Barack Obama has doubled the dept after saying he would cut it in half . This economy you keep blaming bush for even after Obama got everything he wanted just the way he wanted it for his first 2 years you mean , those facts


and the lie that the right loves Putin , lies,lies lies , the right is warning of Putin and him trying to put the soviet union back together , he already invaded Goergia and the freedom they are fighting for in the Ukraine is against communist regime backed by Putin
wasn't it barack , on open mic that told the Russian presisdent He will have more leeway after the elections and he needs to be patient
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-21...reelection.html

socialism never brings people up out off poverty , it only brings everyone into it and makes a rich , evil and powerful ruling class. Everytime
Venezuela ? Cuba ?


and I would love to see your information on The right so called "in love with putin"

here is a quick story or the right warning of Putin and in it , you guessed it Harry reid(liberal democrat) was on Putin's side
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2013/...er-putin-op-ed/

This post has been edited by jstcrsn: Feb 26 2014, 03:01 AM

Just another thought on a major factor concerning the black market in the US, specifically illegal drug trade. The US is in close proximity to 17 of the 21 nations determined by the POTUS to be "Major Drug Transit and Drug Producing Countries for FY 2014"

"Pursuant to section 706(1) of the Foreign Relations Authorization Act, FY 2003 (Public Law 107-228)(FRAA), I hereby identify the following countries as major drug transit and/or major illicit drug producing countries: Afghanistan, The Bahamas, Belize, Bolivia, Burma, Colombia, Costa Rica, the Dominican Republic, Ecuador, El Salvador, Guatemala, Haiti, Honduras, India, Jamaica, Laos, Mexico, Nicaragua, Pakistan, Panama, Peru, and Venezuela."

Of course we know that Mexico is one of these nations and a direct avenue for drugs coming from most of those other nations. Here is the determination made by the President.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office...oducing-countri

My point is that I believe a more stringent border security, combined with the efforts of those nations to curb the illegal drug production in those nations would go a long way, and further than copying policies in the UK to reduce the illegal black market drug trade in the US.

Will it happen? Probably not.

Here is some more relevant info about some of the nations listed above.

http://www.thegooddrugsguide.com/blog/0754...s-lord-it-over/

My God your brain just vomited all over my computer. I realize your just talking with your Republican filter, and that's fine. You sound like my father in law.lol I'm gonna do the forum a favor and not respond to your Fox News marching orders because you probably won't believe any facts I present you, and it's just gonna become a useless back and fourth. I'll graciously agree to disagree. Besides we both agree pot should be legal.

Seconded!!! Best Thread Comment Kudos!




Sadly, prohibition has been shown to be pointless here in the states as evidenced by our failed "war on drugs" and by the massive expansion of the Black Market and cartels. So that approach hasn't worked, won't work, will never work, etc. ..... The "Border Security" issue remains a red herring IMHO. If we did actually close the borders, the entire produce industry would collapse. The waves of secondary effects through the economy would be quite negative. So no help there either.

Back to reform, and new approaches that have shown to work elsewhere.

The good news is many states are doing what will be done (eventually) by all the states create new laws to help eradicate the black market, create massive new revenue streams, etc. (e.g decriminalize/legalize.....)

These things take time and it's only right that it be slow and methodical. People take a while to accept change, so we have to move state by state on some things.





They SUBSIDIZE heroin users in the UK They give them smack and provide needles. It's greatly reduced street crime and gutted the black market It's a HUGE win and we should do the same here. I get the reactionary response, just part of the landscape. But hopefully as we move toward legalization, state by state, programs like the one in the UK will be replicated here

Here is a study that can spell it all out It's reduced heroin use to the lowest level in years.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19825706

But I get that crsn will say it's all "made up" and stuff


This post has been edited by Todd Simpson: Feb 26 2014, 06:34 AM

You did snag the one chunk of data (out of context of course) that supports your argument so well done there! Sadly, despite the UK being ranked 2 and US being ranked 4th, let's dig in a bit deeper. Here's one for ya.

Prisoners
UK. 78,753 prisoners
U.S. 2,019,234 prisoners

The arrest rate for drugs is pretty high in the uk, but here's the rub. We have the most imprisoned population on EARTH ( ranked #1) and half of all federal prisoners are there for guess what ? Yup, Drugs. So there goes that one

http://www.nationmaster.com/compare/United...ed-States/Crime



This post has been edited by Todd Simpson: Feb 26 2014, 07:15 AM

i dont think the blame for the mess our country is in belongs to anyone political party or obama even bush. american corperations are greedy and dont give a shit about the well being of the american public. im not bashing america i love my country i just think we are misinformed and when we start trying to figure out what happened we start pointing fingers.
during the clinton administration they were pushing hard to have china on the world trade organization, it was supposed to create jobs boost the economy and a bunch of shit i just dont understand, but it back fired. soon after they joined, companies started opening factories overseas, over 1/3 of american factories now operate in china, there went alot of jobs not to mention our exports, now were importing things that were originally made in the u.s.! not to mention giving another super power country the means to create there tech and products from our tech and products. Now the companies who wish to remain in the U.S. and keep the jobs home can't, simply cause they cant compete with companies who sold out. Now we have hardly any exports cause everything is cheaper overseas, we export cash to pay for a stupid mistake casued more than a decade ago. on top of all this what upsets me even more is that china doesnt have many lawys against disposal of waste from factories wich also saves the corperations money, and fucks up the planet were all supposed to cherish. some people made out like bandits while the mojority payed the price. dont realy see how obama was going to reverse a bad desision already in full effect.
then we go spend over 3 trillion on a war! the U.S. spent 2 billion a week in afghanistan alone, enough to feed and put every citizen through school and pay for healthcare. just think what 3 trillion could have done for this country, research into renewable energy and healthcare, but no poeple wanna fight! i like to think there was a reason for all of this but really i think greed consumed our country, dont get me wrong i love my country and my freedom, but as a society i think were all screwing up together.
felt a uncontrolable urge to put my 2 scents in after reading this thread!
now back to poppa chubby

Too much politics here for me - so I'll be chilling out

I just gave you facts, I was wanting a mature rebutle against and you start squeezing out gibberish, you said we did something and I showed you facts that did dispute it, now I want some facts that back up your claims. thats what mature debate is, but that is the way the left responds, they start demeaning those that just want a debate


I can mostly agree with this,but I beleive both parties are taking us off the cliff(,as i posted in our last political thread the bad about bush and pelos)i. It just seems the Left has no blame to give to them selves


here is the difference in our attitudes, the left says its kind,but I said" all you do is complain then leave"- making it your choice , you want me to leave because my opinion is different than yours-making it your choice not mine , by the way thats is pretty much how hitler rose to power, they forced out different opinons, which is not a big deal until it is yours



I used the drug criteria because it was a thread about the legalization of drugs, because you were touting england and what they are doing , to me, didn't seem to be working



Drug offences 183,419 per 100,000 people 560.1 per 100,000 people
Ranked 2nd. 326 times more than United States Ranked 4th.

and for the record, I don't have a problem legalizing it and releasing all non violent offenders

I will admit my error ,Pelosci only did it once , the democrat controlled senate failed 3 times

This post has been edited by jstcrsn: Feb 26 2014, 02:23 PM

.. i changed my mind, Marijuana should be legalized ... very quickly !!

No Jstcrsn. We're not gonna have a debate. This isn't the place to do a back and fourth. Besides to have a debate;I'd have to first care about changing your mind, and I don't. I said you were entitled to your opinion. So for the sake of not turning this forum into an example of how toxic the political environment in the US; I'll gladly concede.

so you say something, never give any proof, and then take the high road and say you don't want to get into it
feel free to pm me the info on conservatives backing Putin,Obama not doubling the debt, stuff like that

Your too funny jstcrsn. I'd love to argue with you by PM, but I know what would happen. It will get long and drawn out, and after a while I'll start saying, "This f&%king guy again! Dosen't he realize he's full of s&*t yet?" every time I check my inbox. I'll just concede early so I can avoid the irritation. We'll just agree to disagree.

"Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience." –Mark Twain

once again another fine examples of the left calling themselves accepting , even handed, tolerant and then demeaning me the way you have

Easy now!! Guys, I enjoy this kind back and forth probably a bit too much, and far too often people start to somehow begin to personalize these issues and it stops being fun Once we start getting a pinch to prickly with each other, the time for civil discourse has probably passed. I want to thank everyone for their contributions to a very dynamic conversation. This will be my last post on this one.

Back to Guitar!!!

Todd

The notion that the the agriculture industry would collapse if stronger border security was implemented is nothing more than pure speculation with not much to back it up for a couple reasons I can think of right off the top of my head.

First, just because you have locked down the border doesn't mean you can't continue to have temporary visa's for migrant workers.
And secondly there is no minimum wage requirement for the agriculture industry in this country.
You may not know this but there is a small but robust agriculture industry here in Alaska and we do just fine without migrant workers.

And as far as that article is concerned, I am not going to dismiss it and say it is made up , but I will say that it says this.The success rate is said to be less than one third.

"nearly one-third of users in the last seven years successfully completed their treatment and did not return (about 105,000 users out of 366,200)"

I wouldn't exactly call that a high rate of success and I would wager we have just as much success here with rehab and the prison system.
Also it is only fair to note that there is no opposing or contesting view in that article so it is only one side of the story.

And as far as the black market being "gutted." And crime rates being" black and white" I have already shown that to be highly exaggerated. Did you take a look at the total crimes and total crime victims for the US and the UK? Rape victims? And the more relevant drug offenses?
We are ranked 1st and the UK ranked 2nd for total crimes.
For total crime victims, we are ranked 15th and the UK is ranked 3rd.
Rape victims we are ranked 13th and the UK ranked 6th.
Drug offenses we are ranked 4th and the UK ranked 2nd.
Like I said before, it goes back and forth and is nowhere near "black and white."

I also noted the prisoner numbers you put up in another post. Lets keep in mind that the population of the US is 5 times that of the UK.
And that 2 million prisoners is less that .7% of the population. Not saying that is great , just putting it into perspective.
And your claim that half of the federal prison population is there for drug convictions is highly questionable. Got any numbers to back that up?

Oh wait, here you go , that only took a minute.Although it is the highest percentage,according to this only 19.5% of the federal prison population are there for drug offenses.
Far from half. So, more exaggeration?

http://www.cga.ct.gov/2008/rpt/2008-R-0589.htm


This post has been edited by AK Rich: Feb 26 2014, 08:54 PM

I agree. That's why I conceded. Although refusing to argue can stew people even more; which can be hilarious. I don't have hard feelings toward anybody who disagrees with me. Everyone has an opinion, and they seldom change it.

I've completely lost track of what is going on and to be honest don't really care for the arguing...

Smoke weed and chill... Peace not war...

Bob Marley, Jack Black, Jimmy Hendrix, Abraham Lincoln, Bill Clinton, Kurt Cobain, Snoop Dogg, Dr. Dre, Eminem, Bob Dylan, The Beatles, etc... Justin Bieber... Ahh cr@p weed isn't cool and creative anymore, I give it up!

We can at least see one fact, the only good presidents where ones which smoked. When the American Presidents stop smoking weed, they became paranoid of terrorists attacks, hungry for power/resources and spend most of their tax payers money towards military warfare and spying on others including their own people, rather than healthcare or education.

This post has been edited by Azzaboi: Feb 26 2014, 09:14 PM

Works for me. I hope I haven't come across as taking it personal or getting mad or insulting about anything here. I too enjoy a good debate and hope I haven't offended anyone with my views on the matters at hand. It certainly was not my intention to do so. I would like to add that the conversation here has been nowhere near as uncivil as the comments sections of the news articles I read online these days. Thanks for that.

Rock on!