For Those Outside The U.s. :) |
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Dec 7 2014, 06:38 PM
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QUOTE (fkalich @ Dec 7 2014, 05:50 AM)  Read that list item by item, say go to the 50's and 60's and read each item. Then go to recent times and do the same. It should be clear to you that what we see today was rare to non-existent if you go back 40 or 50 years. Shootings occurred, but not mass shootings. They were personal disputes for the most part, or associated in committing some crime. not loony's deciding to take out as many random people as they do now, for no reason other than insanity. The problem is not guns, we have always had guns. The problem is too much fantasy land entertainment (electronic media) in modern culture (including what we call the "news"). There is also some concern about the side affects of Psychotropic drugs used to treat ADD/ADHD (Ritalin etc) such as psychosis and suicidal ideation. I believe it is known that over the years that these drugs have been over and misprescribed as well as abused. https://healthwatcher.wordpress.com/2008/02...hool-shootings/ |
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Dec 7 2014, 06:48 PM
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I'm sure they are not helping things!! Hopefully as we move forward as a Country we can all come to some sort of understanding and agreement on the dangers of allowing folks with serious mental illness to arm themselves. It's going to be a very thorny issue with lots off divided thought, but it's a conversation that I think our Country needs to have.
QUOTE (AK Rich @ Dec 7 2014, 01:38 PM) There is also some concern about the side affects of Psychotropic drugs used to treat ADD/ADHD (Ritalin etc) such as psychosis and suicidal ideation. I believe it is known that over the years that these drugs have been over and misprescribed as well as abused.
https://healthwatcher.wordpress.com/2008/02...hool-shootings/ |
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Dec 7 2014, 07:13 PM
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I finally found that link that I saw ages ago. http://www.rateyourrisk.org/
You click on the different buttons and go through some questions to assess how risk you are from the following crimes: -serious assault -murder -burglary You guys might find it interesting. It'll probably give you the sort of answers you would expect if you're a city dweller and clued up. I think that, before people get all paranoid and go looking for self defense schools and weapons they should go through this type of process. Awareness and knowledge is just as important (or more so) than the hard skills. |
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Dec 7 2014, 08:14 PM
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Well said!!
 There are plenty of parts of town where you really don't need a gun. Most folks here that live in the "Burbs" and have guns, have them for the "idea" of defense, even though there may have been zero breakin/burglary in the area. It goes to the "better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it" frame of mind. Many folks here just feel safer with a gun in or several in the house. Personally, I enjoy shooting at the range and really don't own my gun for "defense". My hood has virtually zero crime. So I don't feel threatened here at all. I think one can enjoy guns/shooting, without being a survivalist nut or paranoid. Hopefully Trying not to name drop here. Ahem.QUOTE (Ben Higgins @ Dec 7 2014, 02:13 PM) I finally found that link that I saw ages ago. http://www.rateyourrisk.org/
You click on the different buttons and go through some questions to assess how risk you are from the following crimes: -serious assault -murder -burglary You guys might find it interesting. It'll probably give you the sort of answers you would expect if you're a city dweller and clued up. I think that, before people get all paranoid and go looking for self defense schools and weapons they should go through this type of process. Awareness and knowledge is just as important (or more so) than the hard skills. |
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Dec 8 2014, 03:08 PM
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I took the first test - 'Risk of Assault' - my risk level was 23 (low risk).
As I've mentioned before I live in the L.A. metro area. This post has been edited by klasaine: Dec 8 2014, 03:08 PM -------------------- - Ken Lasaine
https://soundcloud.com/klasaine2/foolin-the-clouds https://soundcloud.com/klasaine2/surfin-at-the-country-hop Soundcloud assorted ... https://soundcloud.com/klasaine3 New record ... http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/kenlasaine Solo Guitar ... https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXZh...5iIdO2tpgtj25Ke Stuff I'm on ... https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXZh...b-dhb-4B0KgRY-d |
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Dec 10 2014, 01:33 AM
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I took it
I'm a "cautious" guy **(0 to 50) This score shows a low risk of assault. You are either highly cautious or a poor target. You should not be foolishly overconfident however. Keep up the precautions and take the test again next month and don't fudge on your points. QUOTE (Ben Higgins @ Dec 7 2014, 02:13 PM) I finally found that link that I saw ages ago. http://www.rateyourrisk.org/ You click on the different buttons and go through some questions to assess how risk you are from the following crimes: -serious assault -murder -burglary You guys might find it interesting. It'll probably give you the sort of answers you would expect if you're a city dweller and clued up. I think that, before people get all paranoid and go looking for self defense schools and weapons they should go through this type of process. Awareness and knowledge is just as important (or more so) than the hard skills. |
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Dec 12 2014, 07:30 PM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Dec 6 2014, 11:06 AM) Getting rid of ALL gun rights for citizens is clearly just out of the question unless we remove the second ammnd to the Constitution. So that seems a bit of a straw man yeah? Not at all. In the history of this country there are numerous examples of Gov. and the Supreme Court skirting the Constitution.Many have been struck down, many have not. Here is an example of a violation of the 4th Amendment. http://original.antiwar.com/andrew-p-napol...e-constitution/ http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2014/1...-communications Need more examples? There are plenty concerning many of the Amendments to the Constitution. You don't need a Constitutional Convention to change or amend the Constitution when you have a Supreme Court that will misinterpret it. Or simply rule against it. This in itself is unconstitutional. http://constitutionality.us/SupremeCourt.html The specific problem is addressed here. Taken from page 3 of the above. A Summary of the Problem If you have followed the links to the left which precede this page ('A Proposal'), then you have read my thoughts on the Constitutionality Crisis facing the United States of America. I have explained that: There are many unconstitutional laws on the books It is far too easy to pass unconstitutional laws. We must make it harder to do. It is practically impossible to repeal or overturn unconstitutional laws. We must make it easier to do. The Supreme Court has been a willing accomplice to the federal government's unceasing expansion of power. As a branch of the federal government itself, permitting the Supreme Court to review laws for constitutionality is letting the fox guard the hen house. The power of Judicial Review is a power that was usurped by the Supreme Court; it is not a power granted to the court by the Constitution. Reviewing laws for constitutionality, upholding the constitutional ones and striking down the unconstitutional ones, is a power retained by The States and the people, per the Tenth Amendment. Unconstitutional laws are, in effect, unauthorized amendments to the Constitution which have not had to undergo the rigorous scrutiny and debate which would accompany proper, proposed amendments before adoption nor have they been approved by the states. Because unconstitutional laws have the very same effect as unauthorized constitutional amendments, legislation of questionable constitutionality should be given close scrutiny and review, and require super-majorities to pass, much like actual proposed amendments. The Constitution and the federal government are creations of the states. It's time for the states to regain control of the Constitution and therefore, the federal government. This post has been edited by AK Rich: Dec 12 2014, 07:53 PM |
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Dec 13 2014, 12:32 AM
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With watchdogs like you I don't think they will be able to get away with too much
Honestly though, I think we are in greater danger of World War III being started by Martians than we are in danger of the Govt. striking down the 2nd Amendment. I just don't believe that we are in any real danger of losing our right to keep and bear arms. Despite the enormous amount of grinding on fox news and by Rush Limbaugh and others on the farrrrrrr opposite of left leanings, I just don't buy it. I have seen nothing, yes nothing in terms of proposed legislation,(especially none could pass and get signed) that even comes close. So I think we are probably safe for now with our weapons But I do hope we manage to find a way to reduce the number of CRAZY People that get access to guns.TO WIT!!!! yet ANOTHER "nut job" shoots up the place yet again. This time in PORTLAND OREGAN. http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/12/us/portland-....html?hpt=hp_t1 
This post has been edited by Todd Simpson: Dec 13 2014, 12:32 AM |
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Dec 13 2014, 03:34 AM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Dec 12 2014, 03:32 PM) With watchdogs like you I don't think they will be able to get away with too much Honestly though, I think we are in greater danger of World War III being started by Martians than we are in danger of the Govt. striking down the 2nd Amendment. I just don't believe that we are in any real danger of losing our right to keep and bear arms. Despite the enormous amount of grinding on fox news and by Rush Limbaugh and others on the farrrrrrr opposite of left leanings, I just don't buy it. I have seen nothing, yes nothing in terms of proposed legislation,(especially none could pass and get signed) that even comes close. So I think we are probably safe for now with our weapons But I do hope we manage to find a way to reduce the number of CRAZY People that get access to guns.TO WIT!!!! yet ANOTHER "nut job" shoots up the place yet again. This time in PORTLAND OREGAN. http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/12/us/portland-....html?hpt=hp_t1 Well, I agree something of that sort is probably not going to happen over night. These things are done, and have been done incrementally, and with backdoor methods that simply make it tougher and more expensive to own guns and ammo. There really is no argument against the fact that there has been a slow erosion of rights and the Constitution in this country. I heard about the recent shooting today, and most likely in this case , as in most of these events, the perpetrator was in possession of a firearm illegally. So most likely there was already a law on the books that was supposed to stop this. And then after things like this happen , the answer our lawmakers come up with has more effect on responsible law abiding gun owners than it does anyone else. Laws or mandatory testing for ownership doesn't stop a bad guy with a gun , a good guy with a gun does. Instead of diminishing gun rights, maybe we should be trying to diminish the reasons and circumstances that lead to gun violence? I don't have the answers but it seems to me the approaches taken or attempted are flawed. This post has been edited by AK Rich: Dec 13 2014, 03:57 AM |
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Dec 17 2014, 03:13 PM
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Finland is similar to the US in that it has a high amount of gun ownership, but no where near the same amount of shooting massacres.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Finland US also has (if you search for these): "Stolen Tank rampage" and "Killdozer". More US soldiers die of suicide outside the combat zone. http://www.thewire.com/national/2013/01/us...des-2012/60985/ ~ The Finnish mental health system is decentralized and medication is very low on their list of priorities http://www.mindfreedom.org/kb/mental-healt...d-open-dialogue -------------------- Founder of new startup social network site that brings the good aspects of MySpace, Twitter and FaceBook together.
MyTwitFace. |
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Dec 17 2014, 05:08 PM
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QUOTE (Arpeggio @ Dec 17 2014, 06:13 AM) Finland is similar to the US in that it has a high amount of gun ownership, but no where near the same amount of shooting massacres. Not trying to diminish the fact that there is a problem with gun violence here but I am not sure that this is a good comparison since the population of the greater Los Angeles area alone appears to be 2 to 3 times greater than the entire population of Finland. "The City of Los Angeles has an estimated population in 2013 of 3,862,839, and it's the most populous city in the country. It also sits in one of the most ethnically diverse counties in the United States. The City of Angels is a global city, and the Los Angeles Combined Statistical Area (CSA) is the third largest in the world, after Greater Tokyo and New York. It's also the 48th most populous city in the world." "The greater Los Angeles area is much larger, though, and its metropolitan area has a population of 12.8 million, with 17.7 million living in the CSA." http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries...and-population/ "Estimates are released in the country on an annual basis and it is claimed that the Finland population in 2012 had reached 5,404,956 and in 2014, 5.44 million, making this the 116th most populous country on the planet." http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries...and-population/ This post has been edited by AK Rich: Dec 17 2014, 05:09 PM |
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Dec 17 2014, 06:31 PM
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HERE WE GO AGAIN!!! I can't even reply to a post before yet ANOTHER crazy man goes on a shooting spree. Ex marine, probably PTSD influenced.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/15/us/pennsylva...ings/index.html (CNN) -- Police in Pennsylvania mounted an intense search Monday in the Philadelphia suburbs for a man suspected of killing his ex-wife and five former in-laws, the district attorney for Montgomery County, Pennsylvania, said at a Monday night press conference. Bradley William Stone of Pennsburg killed his ex-wife and her mother, grandmother and sister, as well as the sister's husband and 14-year-old daughter, said District Attorney Risa Vetri Ferman. But Stone didn't harm his two daughters, who were living with his ex-wife. He took them to a neighbor's residence in Pennsburg, the last place he was seen, Ferman said. --------------- REPLY TO RICH: We are actually on the same page on a few things here In the Oregon case we are talking about, it looks to be "gang related" and gangs don't buy guns through regulated channels nearly as much as one would like. Also, the shooter appears to have been quite young. So unless his father bought him a gun, it's probably a "street weapon".The laws on the books do very little to deal with illegal guns nor will they ever be very good dealing with illegal guns much the same way they are not very good dealing with illegal drugs or anything for which there is an active black market. What this particular case seems to be about in terms of policy, is a lack of security at our nations schools. Personally, I"d vote for and pay local taxes for a bill that puts metal detectors at every entrance and every exit on school grounds. THese should be built in from initial construction IMHO. But that's a separate issue really from what we have been going on about here. But even if we did put metal detectors in schools, kids could still shoot each other outside, in the park, etc. So just securing the school grounds won't stop this kind of violence against children. In cases like this, where you have a minor, with an illegal gun, policy is feckless imho. He's too young to be prosecuted as an adult, he can buy a guy or borrow one on the street, there's very little policy can do here IMHO. What the child appears to need is better parenting or perhaps any parenting. Before they are adults, it really is up to the parents imho. Children raised in loving homes by loving parents (sans mental illness) are typically not on the shooter list. This is different than children raised in wealth homes who are "latchkey kids". These kids somehow do end up on the shooter list without benefit of mental illness it seems. The entire "gun thing" is a thorny issue. All we can do is try to work with the structures/laws/policies, as voters, in a way that encourages the outcomes we desire. The balance between our liberties and our laws is perpetually in flux. So we have to remain vigilant QUOTE (AK Rich @ Dec 12 2014, 10:34 PM) Well, I agree something of that sort is probably not going to happen over night. These things are done, and have been done incrementally, and with backdoor methods that simply make it tougher and more expensive to own guns and ammo. There really is no argument against the fact that there has been a slow erosion of rights and the Constitution in this country. I heard about the recent shooting today, and most likely in this case , as in most of these events, the perpetrator was in possession of a firearm illegally. So most likely there was already a law on the books that was supposed to stop this. And then after things like this happen , the answer our lawmakers come up with has more effect on responsible law abiding gun owners than it does anyone else. Laws or mandatory testing for ownership doesn't stop a bad guy with a gun , a good guy with a gun does. Instead of diminishing gun rights, maybe we should be trying to diminish the reasons and circumstances that lead to gun violence? I don't have the answers but it seems to me the approaches taken or attempted are flawed. GREAT POST!! These are really important points here. They go to show the real issue at stake in our country which is a systemic, cultural, violent impulse. Other countries have guns, lotsa guns. But it's we here who have the crazy high soldier suicide rate, school shooting rate, rampage rate, etc. Many of these issues stem from deeeeeeep cultural values and policy as a reflection off those. QUOTE (Arpeggio @ Dec 17 2014, 10:13 AM) Finland is similar to the US in that it has a high amount of gun ownership, but no where near the same amount of shooting massacres. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Finland US also has (if you search for these): "Stolen Tank rampage" and "Killdozer". More US soldiers die of suicide outside the combat zone. http://www.thewire.com/national/2013/01/us...des-2012/60985/ ~ The Finnish mental health system is decentralized and medication is very low on their list of priorities http://www.mindfreedom.org/kb/mental-healt...d-open-dialogue The issue is really "guns per capita" rather than overall numbers though. Just take finland and scale it up. You can get a better look at the comparison that way if you want even numbers. QUOTE (AK Rich @ Dec 17 2014, 12:08 PM) Not trying to diminish the fact that there is a problem with gun violence here but I am not sure that
... http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries...and-population/ This post has been edited by Todd Simpson: Dec 17 2014, 06:37 PM |
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Dec 17 2014, 07:47 PM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Dec 17 2014, 09:31 AM) REPLY TO RICH: [/b] What this particular case seems to be about in terms of policy, is a lack of security at our nations schools. Personally, I"d vote for and pay local taxes for a bill that puts metal detectors at every entrance and every exit on school grounds. THese should be built in from initial construction IMHO. The issue is really "guns per capita" rather than overall numbers though. Just take finland and scale it up. You can get a better look at the comparison that way if you want even numbers. Sounds good to me. those things, as well as adding armed security could go a long way to lowering the numbers of school shootings I think. I am not sure that scaling Finland's population up would offer a fair comparison either considering population density and other related factors. But even as that is. Instead of using a hypothetical, how about if you just compare school shootings in a city in the US that has a similar population as the country of Finland? Do you think numbers would be closer? I do, it may even be that Finland's number would come out higher. The point is that these "per capita" comparisons do not necessarily reflect reality. I have read that if you compare Europe to the US per capita that the numbers of mass shootings are very close. You probably won't like the source, but what about the content? http://www.newsmax.com/Headline/Lott-guns-...2/15/id/467903/ http://www.gunfacts.info/gun-control-myths...ther-countries/ Another thing to consider is that even while gun manufacturing and ownership has continued to rise, gun crimes have actually fallen. Although gun suicides have unfortunately gone up. [attachment=40200:FirearmFacts.png] |
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