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Gabriel Leopardi
post Jun 13 2019, 02:38 PM
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QUOTE (Phil66 @ Jun 12 2019, 05:27 PM) *
Thanks Gab,

That backing tricked me, it doesn't follow the same format even though it's i iv v laugh.gif I mean not the same amount of bars per chord are played like in a 12 bar.

I can understand that Spotify is a great investment, but when I have free time that's when I'm practising my guitar wink.gif



Yeah, it's a bit different so it's great to help you to adapt to different situations!

Your spotify comment made me think... do you usually listen to music and guitarists?


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Phil66
post Jun 13 2019, 02:54 PM
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QUOTE (Gabriel Leopardi @ Jun 13 2019, 01:38 PM) *
Your spotify comment made me think... do you usually listen to music and guitarists?


Interesting comment Gab

I mainly listen to rock music in my car, 90% rock/blues with some other stuff thrown in. I used to have some high end hi-fi equipment, (the entry level of THIS company)and I used to sit at home and listen for at least one hour every night, just listening to the music, absolutely nothing else, eyes close, getting absorbed in it. Now that time is taken up practising guitar and fitting other life things in.

Out of interest, obviously, we get to know the "format" of a i iv v 12 bar but, how do you, yourself, tackle following the chords on a piece that is new to you and you haven't learned the progression?

Cheers

This post has been edited by Phil66: Jun 13 2019, 08:18 PM


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Jun 14 2019, 03:52 PM
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QUOTE (Phil66 @ Jun 13 2019, 10:54 AM) *
Interesting comment Gab

I mainly listen to rock music in my car, 90% rock/blues with some other stuff thrown in. I used to have some high end hi-fi equipment, (the entry level of THIS company)and I used to sit at home and listen for at least one hour every night, just listening to the music, absolutely nothing else, eyes close, getting absorbed in it. Now that time is taken up practising guitar and fitting other life things in.

Out of interest, obviously, we get to know the "format" of a i iv v 12 bar but, how do you, yourself, tackle following the chords on a piece that is new to you and you haven't learned the progression?

Cheers




I asked because I consider important to listen to music if you are a musician. smile.gif


If I don't know the chord progression, I let the first beat of each change in silence and then start the phrase during the first rounds.


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Phil66
post Jun 14 2019, 09:27 PM
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QUOTE (Gabriel Leopardi @ Jun 14 2019, 02:52 PM) *
I asked because I consider important to listen to music if you are a musician. smile.gif

Thanks Gab,

I do listen to music, mainly in my car but usually my own collection on my iPod and Classic Rock radio channels.

I have just subscribed to Spotify because I didn't know you could download stuff to your phone and listen offline, great for in my car if I can set it up, (I'm your dad's age don't forget ;o) )

QUOTE (Gabriel Leopardi @ Jun 14 2019, 02:52 PM) *
If I don't know the chord progression, I let the first beat of each change in silence and then start the phrase during the first rounds.

Regarding following the chords, I really really need to work on that, I sometimes don't even recognise a chord change and if I do I forget what the progression is. You have a very very good ear, maybe perfect pitch? So for you it is easier, I have to rely on counting bars etc. I'll get there slowly, hopefully, my ear is my biggest enemy still.

Cheers buddy.

Phil






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post Jun 14 2019, 10:32 PM
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QUOTE (Phil66 @ Jun 14 2019, 05:27 PM) *
Thanks Gab,

I do listen to music, mainly in my car but usually my own collection on my iPod and Classic Rock radio channels.

I have just subscribed to Spotify because I didn't know you could download stuff to your phone and listen offline, great for in my car if I can set it up, (I'm your dad's age don't forget ;o) )

Regarding following the chords, I really really need to work on that, I sometimes don't even recognise a chord change and if I do I forget what the progression is. You have a very very good ear, maybe perfect pitch? So for you it is easier, I have to rely on counting bars etc. I'll get there slowly, hopefully, my ear is my biggest enemy still.

Cheers buddy.

Phil



Well, it's not so dramatic. When practicing improvisation, is good to try to follow the chords, and understand what is happening because you are practicing, but in real life, you forget about everything and just play what you feel, if you think to much when playing live, your mind blocks.




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Phil66
post Jun 14 2019, 10:55 PM
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Now I'm really confused laugh.gif I love playing what I feel but I always think I'll be told it's wrong. To play it safe I would always just stick to the key signature and play the relevant G shape pentatonic in one position. wink.gif Got to get out of that but I'm struggling with creativity as you know. Ideas flow freely when noodling but not when restricted to a backing and trying to follow chords.

I'll get there buddy, I'm just travelling a difficult road for me at the moment wink.gif I think I need to spend more time on my blues REC lesson and learning other people's stuff to give me fuel for my own improvisations. I'm getting a little bit demoralised keep struggling to get ideas. I've hardly spent any time learning new things lately all I've been doing is trying to create and you can't build a house if you ain't got bricks wink.gif

Here is another total improvisation with the original backing, I kinda like the ideas in it, I don't think the technique is very fluid and I've started to struggle to remember the order of the chords, I know it's only A7, D7 and E 7 but some are two bars some are one bar and I get lost in it, must be some kind of dyslexia, I struggle with immediate memory, for instance, I'm very good at mathematics, I need to be being an engineer but, when I'm working things out in my head, I keep forgetting where I am. I know I can beat it with neuroplasticity techniques but that area of my brain must be microscopic laugh.gif

https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/a7-jam-16062019

I did an experiment tonight. I recorded the A major and A minor penta independently and then copy and pasted them randomly into another track (see below). I played them back trying to identify them and it just couldn't tell one from the other. I can tell the difference between major and minor chords if played back to back, eg, E maj and E min, and A maj and A min but I struggle if just one is played on its own. I think this is a key issue with my problem following chords for improvisation and, if you agree, and have anything that can help I'll gladly listen. If you think about it, I can improvise quite well when I use one pattern in position but what I'm trying to do now is like climbing Mount Everest in roller skates for me sad.gif

https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/majmin-mix-up


Don't know if you've ever seen this but it's quite interesting. The interviewer's a bit of a cock, especially when he mentions the Mersey beat completely out of context but it's a good interview.

https://youtu.be/SZoX6Q0UK8A


This post has been edited by Phil66: Jun 16 2019, 09:12 PM


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Phil66
post Jun 16 2019, 07:56 PM
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I've only put this here to let you know that I have added to the post above. Just in case you read it on the day it was posted and have prepared a reply, you may miss the added content. Sorry it's a long one but it is the culmination of a few days practise and thoughts wink.gif


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post Jun 16 2019, 10:02 PM
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Hi Phil!

Why are you confused? Do you remember that quote that says that it has to become a second nature? That's when you just play what you feel, because the concepts and techniques learnt become a second nature and you don't have to think on them. We are going there, but it's not a short and easy journey.

Don't your recognise the difference between both scales in that audio? It's simple, Major Pentatonic starts with a major second interval, so it starts exactly as "Happy Birthday" song. Minor Pentatonic starts with a minor third interval... if it doesn't sound like "Happy Birthday" beginning, it's Minor! biggrin.gif This is a good technique to start, what do you think?

Thanks for that SRV video, I've seen it in the past but it's always inspiring to watch it again.



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Phil66
post Jun 16 2019, 10:30 PM
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QUOTE (Gabriel Leopardi @ Jun 16 2019, 09:02 PM) *
Hi Phil!

Why are you confused? Do you remember that quote that says that it has to become a second nature? That's when you just play what you feel, because the concepts and techniques learnt become a second nature and you don't have to think on them. We are going there, but it's not a short and easy journey.


I was confused because I have to try to follow the chords when practising but play what I feel in real life but it was kind of a tongue in cheek comment which is why I put the laughing emoji wink.gif
I know it's not a short journey which is why I need to actually learn things like a REC lesson to give me a sense of achievement, when something is taking a hell of a long time, probably longer than most other students, something else is needed to keep interest. I don't really mind how long something takes as long as I can see /feel progress which can't at the moment with my improvising when trying to follow chords. It's nobody's fault is just due to my generic limitations with my ears/brain, over the years I've tried many ear training courses but they never helped, that's why I came up with that idea for that book with Troy Stetina but he's really struggling financially and couldn't put the time in, I sent you the initial stages of the transcript.

QUOTE (Gabriel Leopardi @ Jun 16 2019, 09:02 PM) *
Don't your recognise the difference between both scales in that audio? It's simple, Major Pentatonic starts with a major second interval, so it starts exactly as "Happy Birthday" song. Minor Pentatonic starts with a minor third interval... if it doesn't sound like "Happy Birthday" beginning, it's Minor! biggrin.gif This is a good technique to start, what do you think?


No I don't recognise them. When you say "it's simple", it is for you, not for me mellow.gif my ears are not very good yet, I hear when I play a wrong note in a scale but, if you played A minor pent to me followed by A major pent and then played one of them again without saying which one it was, I wouldn't be able to tell you if it was major or minor sad.gif. Not simple for me at all. That's why I keep thinking, "maybe I should just learn other people's blues stuff and mix that up a little bit". I don't want you thinking I'm giving up or anything like that, I just get really really frustrated with my ear skills, or lack of.

What did you think of the improv?

QUOTE (Gabriel Leopardi @ Jun 16 2019, 09:02 PM) *
Thanks for that SRV video, I've seen it in the past but it's always inspiring to watch it again.


SRV was an incredible player, in that interview you can tell he really really studied his craft.

Cheers buddy.

This post has been edited by Phil66: Jun 17 2019, 09:23 AM


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post Jun 17 2019, 07:09 PM
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QUOTE (Phil66 @ Jun 16 2019, 06:30 PM) *
No I don't recognise them. When you say "it's simple", it is for you, not for me mellow.gif my ears are not very good yet, I hear when I play a wrong note in a scale but, if you played A minor pent to me followed by A major pent and then played one of them again without saying which one it was, I wouldn't be able to tell you if it was major or minor sad.gif. Not simple for me at all. That's why I keep thinking, "maybe I should just learn other people's blues stuff and mix that up a little bit". I don't want you thinking I'm giving up or anything like that, I just get really really frustrated with my ear skills, or lack of.

What did you think of the improv?



Did you try my idea? Trying to identify Happy Birthday Intro?


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post Jun 17 2019, 07:22 PM
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Hello Gab,

Yes buddy I did, but I obviously don't know how the song "truly" goes, neither of them sound like it to me. unsure.gif

I don't think you realise how bad my ear is but maybe it's more a case of not being able to recollect how the tune actually goes. I was talking to someone at work today and mentioned your "Happy Birthday" exercise, he has zero music theory knowledge, isn't interested at all, but used to play the guitar, he could recite Happy Birthday from memory whereas I couldn't, he can quickly play melodies from memory on the guitar even if he hasn't played them before. That's why I can detect things played back to back but not in isolation, I can't remember how they sounded even a minute later.

What did you think of the improv?

Cheers

Phil


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post Jun 18 2019, 02:45 PM
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QUOTE (Phil66 @ Jun 17 2019, 03:22 PM) *
Hello Gab,

Yes buddy I did, but I obviously don't know how the song "truly" goes, neither of them sound like it to me. unsure.gif

I don't think you realise how bad my ear is but maybe it's more a case of not being able to recollect how the tune actually goes. I was talking to someone at work today and mentioned your "Happy Birthday" exercise, he has zero music theory knowledge, isn't interested at all, but used to play the guitar, he could recite Happy Birthday from memory whereas I couldn't, he can quickly play melodies from memory on the guitar even if he hasn't played them before. That's why I can detect things played back to back but not in isolation, I can't remember how they sounded even a minute later.

What did you think of the improv?

Cheers

Phil



Hi Phil! This is not that dramatic, if your Ear is not trained, it's because you need to train it. smile.gif

Let's add 5 minutes of Ear Practice to your diary sessions. This can be done even when you are not at home. There are lots of Ear Training apps out there.

If you try this exercise every day, you'll see great results:



Regarding your Improvisation, it's ok mate! Everything sounds good on it. I can hear that you are getting more familiar with the scale. Most of my thoughts are related to things that we are not focusing at this moment, like dynamics, articulation, and other expression elements. But we are not focusing on Note Choices. Your rhythm work is getting better, but I think that there is still work to do in this direction.





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post Jun 18 2019, 03:43 PM
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Thanks Gab,

I had put some chromatic notes in the last improv and some string skipping.

I'll take a look at that ear training thing when I get home. I've tried lots of them but apart from struggling to recognise the interval you always have to say its name. That's why that idea I had with Troy that I sent to you made sense, finding the intervals on the fretboard, not worrying about their names. Anyway, as I said I'll take a look when I get home.
I've started to put more effort into my REC lesson now too, just to make things more enjoyable and to give me some ideas for improv wink.gif

Cheers


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post Jun 18 2019, 10:00 PM
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Okay Gab,

Tonight I set up an M Audio Oxygen 49 through Albeton. It took me a while because I don't really understand midi. I did try with guitar but I find a grand piano tone easier to match at the moment for some reason.

I won't be able to do that whole exercise for a while. I struggled to match middle C at first, I then did C > D and then tried it on my own into my Korg TM50 tuner without reference notes. I was way off but that will get better hopefully.

I also found an ear training program on my computer called EarMaster but couldn't get it to detect my mic for some reason

I'll do as much of the exercise as I can for a few days then I'll record myself humming the intervals that I can match with the piano but without the piano so you can see my progress. I'll know what my progress is because the tuner will tell me but I want you to hear it too wink.gif

I'm not going to worry about the name of the intervals at the moment, I think it's more important to concentrate on pitch matching, unless you advise otherwise.

I think, and hope you agree, my ear is my weakest area at the moment. I know I can improve my mechanical skills/technique with practise I just need to convince myself that my ears can improve with practise. I've always doubted it but I need to overcome that.

Thanks for your help and patience buddy, I know I'm a pain in the ass with my negativity but hopefully it is training you to be tolerant with difficult students wink.gif

Cheers


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post Jun 18 2019, 11:00 PM
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Great Phil. It would be good is you can share an audio with 1 minutes of your practice every week so I can check your tuning when singing the itervals. What do you say?


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post Jun 19 2019, 06:29 AM
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Yes Gab that's what I plan on doing. At first I think it would be good to do what I do when practicing bending to pitch, sing the note without looking and then look at the tuner to check and correct the error. If you hear it like this you will see if I am improving with my initial note before correction, I hope that makes sense.

I think this is my biggest challenge yet but, "If you stay with anything long enough it will get hard and you will want to stop", "If we expect the ride to our dreams to be challenge-free, we're in for quite a surprise and will ultimately give in", "Understanding that your desire to do anything in life will vary minute to minute, day to day, and hour to hour allows you to step away from your feelings. Many times, experiencing doubt and resistance means we're growing, stretching, or in the process of becoming. When they come up, smile and learn to love them". Three quotes from a book I'm reading called "The 1% Rule" I recommend it to students and teachers.

Cheers buddy.

This post has been edited by Phil66: Jun 19 2019, 09:16 PM


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post Jun 19 2019, 06:56 PM
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Nice! We have a deal! I'll wait for your recording.

I'm curious about that 1%, what does it reffer to?


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post Jun 19 2019, 08:04 PM
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Thanks Gab,

The book deals with reaching your goals, coping with the ups and downs and how to focus energy and time into achieving them. I know you've achieved a lot with Cirse and your studio etc but, the reason I recommend this kind of thing to tutors is that it can help them tackle students' issues that they, themselves (the tutor) may not have come across before. As you know, I train people at work and I can always learn from them, I'm never too qualified to learn from a trainee, whether it's about the way they approach their challenges or if they come up with a way of doing something that I'd never thought of. Every day is a school day for me, one way or another and I often pass things on to other trainees that I have picked up from another. Trainees very often inspire me.

HERE is the book lowdown wink.gif

Speak very soon buddy.

UPDATE:

I thought I should give you a recording of my "singing" from day 1. This was so embarrassing to record and even more embarrassing to post laugh.gif laugh.gif I know singing is really a whole different ball game but for this training, we can call it that. This is just to see if this is how you want things done. I'm just doing C and D for now, I didn't do C D C just C D.

https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/c-d-take-1-19062019

Cheers

This post has been edited by Phil66: Jun 20 2019, 07:49 PM


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post Jun 20 2019, 09:06 PM
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Further to the above post, here is tonight's ear training. I'm using the tuner to help when I'm not hitting the keys but, I am trying to hit the note first before looking, I found the E the hardest to get without the piano.

https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/c-d-c-e-take-1-20062019



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post Jun 21 2019, 08:47 PM
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Further to the two posts above hear is tonight's session. I am using the tuner to confirm but I am finding that I am getting closer sooner, if that makes sense wink.gif

https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/c-d-c-e-c-f-take-1-21062019

And without keyboard.

https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/c-d-c-e-c-f-take-1-no-keyboard-21062019

Cheers

Phil


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“Success is not obtained overnight. It comes in installments; you get a little bit today, a little bit tomorrow until the whole package is given out. The day you procrastinate, you lose that day's success.”
Israelmore Ayivor
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