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> Which Speaker Should I Choose?
Adam M
post Dec 25 2018, 09:30 PM
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Hello! I have a hybrid amp head, Joyo Zombie, that I've been using sporadically with a pair of stereo hi fi speakers, 6 ohm each. They are in series, so it should be 12 ohms in total. The sound is okay but I imagine upgrading them to a 112 stack would be a huge improvement. Now I'm also reading that using it this way could damage the speakers or transformator (in the amp?) I play really quiet and there was no problem so far. Also, I play my Kustom combo 99% of the time and Zombie through phones output lately. And yet...

I'm considering a 112 stack because phones out is nice only for clean channel and we all know Mesa type of amps are about dirty channel. There's a whole lot of speakers which makes me confused. Could you help me choose? I see most of the people run a Vintage 30 with Mesa, MB makes their combos and stacks with that, so that's my random choice.

I know there are people in love with Creambacks, Greenbacks, Eminence and many others. I haven't tried any so far, only my Kustom's stock Super 8.
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Gabriel Leopardi
post Dec 26 2018, 03:13 PM
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Hi mate, I have a Mesa Boogie Dual Rectifier and the best speaker that I've used or maybe not the best, but the one that I liked more was Vintage 30. I think that it sounds great combined with high gain amps, so I would go for it.

This is a cool video to listen and choose your favourites.



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Adam M
post Dec 26 2018, 05:06 PM
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QUOTE (Gabriel Leopardi @ Dec 26 2018, 03:13 PM) *
Hi mate, I have a Mesa Boogie Dual Rectifier and the best speaker that I've used or maybe not the best, but the one that I liked more was Vintage 30. I think that it sounds great combined with high gain amps, so I would go for it.

This is a cool video to listen and choose your favourites.


Thanks! I watched the vid before going to work and I liked Vintage 30 the most. There was one other, seventy-something that was quite okay but not as good as V30. I'll try looking for Eminence speakers when I'm back from work but I doubt they will beat it.

Does the manufacturer matter? I mean I know Mesa is probably top quality and top price but I'm finding cabs with the same parameters with different price tags just because the brand logos are different. My will be custom made by a small shop nearby.
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klasaine
post Dec 26 2018, 05:24 PM
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A Vintage 30 will sound great with that little head in a standard Mesa or Marshall type of cabinet. Just make sure it's an 8ohm spkr (or two 8ohm spkrs wired in series). I think you can also use a 16ohm speaker with that head?

A lot of the tone and the way the speaker responds will be affected by the cabinet: open back v. closed back, ported v. non-ported, birch v. pine, 15mm thickness v. less than that. Trust me, this makes as much difference as the speaker style. A bad cabinet can ruin a great amp/spkr combo.

*Don't worry about damaging the amp if you're using it with a pair of 6 ohm stereo speakers quietly. The only thing that would happen is that the solid state power section would heat up a bit delivering more energy to the transformer rather than the speakers. Prolonged use may possibly result in some damage - ? Depends on how robust the rest of the circuit is.

This post has been edited by klasaine: Dec 26 2018, 05:30 PM


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Adam M
post Dec 26 2018, 07:28 PM
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QUOTE (klasaine @ Dec 26 2018, 05:24 PM) *
A Vintage 30 will sound great with that little head in a standard Mesa or Marshall type of cabinet. Just make sure it's an 8ohm spkr (or two 8ohm spkrs wired in series). I think you can also use a 16ohm speaker with that head?

A lot of the tone and the way the speaker responds will be affected by the cabinet: open back v. closed back, ported v. non-ported, birch v. pine, 15mm thickness v. less than that. Trust me, this makes as much difference as the speaker style. A bad cabinet can ruin a great amp/spkr combo.

*Don't worry about damaging the amp if you're using it with a pair of 6 ohm stereo speakers quietly. The only thing that would happen is that the solid state power section would heat up a bit delivering more energy to the transformer rather than the speakers. Prolonged use may possibly result in some damage - ? Depends on how robust the rest of the circuit is.

These speakers are 8ohm, iirc 16ohm would result in less RMP.

Could you elaborate a bit? As it's a custom made cab, I can choose some options. There's baltic birch vs black poplar, open vs closed vs 50/50. Poplar is 15mm and birch is 18mm. Other options are visual. I want to get a good one, even if that means paying extra.

The head seems solid but it was made in Asia, so it may not be of super high quality.
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fkalich
post Dec 26 2018, 07:53 PM
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I have looked hard to find a speaker that I like as much as a Vintage 30, and have always failed in my attempts. Birch is the wood of choice but poplar is fine in a good quality cabinet. I would prefer 18mm ply to 15mm though. I have single speaker, dual, and quad cabinets. In general I prefer the quads. I consider the speaker cabinet so very important, just makes sure you will be satisfied with what you get. It is not as easy to sell a cabinet as other things due shipping costs if you are unhappy. I am not sure what you mean by RMP, if that has to do with loudness, it is a myth that ohms matter in that regard, just match it to your amplifier, or reasonably close.

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AK Rich
post Dec 26 2018, 08:29 PM
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I love my Orange cabs with V30's. Great quality and a rock solid build. I was using a 4x12 but now I am using a couple 2x12 cabs. One open backed and one closed back. Here is a 1x12 cab with a V30.

https://orangeamps.com/ppc112/
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klasaine
post Dec 27 2018, 02:59 AM
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This is pretty much spot on ...

QUOTE (fkalich @ Dec 26 2018, 11:53 AM) *
I have looked hard to find a speaker that I like as much as a Vintage 30, and have always failed in my attempts. Birch is the wood of choice but poplar is fine in a good quality cabinet. I would prefer 18mm ply to 15mm though. I have single speaker, dual, and quad cabinets. In general I prefer the quads. I consider the speaker cabinet so very important, just makes sure you will be satisfied with what you get. It is not as easy to sell a cabinet as other things due shipping costs if you are unhappy. I am not sure what you mean by RMP, if that has to do with loudness, it is a myth that ohms matter in that regard, just match it to your amplifier, or reasonably close.


The Joyo head will accept anything from 8 to 16 ohms.
16 ply, Baltic birch at almost 27mm (about 1 inch) is what the classic Marshall 4x12 is made from.
Mesa cabs are usually a bit thinner. Bogner makes cabs that are 30mm thick. Pine and poplar are lighter than Birch if weight is an issue but it can also be a brighter sounding wood. *Fender cabs are pine. Many boutique, vintage style amp builders use poplar (it resonates great).
I have both, closed and open back cabs. Closed = more low end thump. Open = more diffusion. Both are great for different things. A combo of open and closed does not result in "the best of both worlds" but it is a cool option. I use a open/closed 2x12 cab a lot. It's great but it's also different than either my fully closed or fully open cabs.
Also, if you are thinking of two speakers as opposed to one or four, two on top of each other sounds different than two side by side. Side by side = a bit more low end depending on the baffling inside of the cabinet. Piggy back = brighter and tighter (again, depending on the baffling inside).

*If you're looking for more defined low end and a more modern sound you might consider the Celestion G12H75. It's a tighter speaker than the Vintage 30 (G12H30). It's common to have one of each in a 2x12 cab or two of each in 4x12 and it's a great sound.

This post has been edited by klasaine: Dec 27 2018, 05:44 AM


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Adam M
post Dec 27 2018, 05:01 PM
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QUOTE (AK Rich @ Dec 26 2018, 08:29 PM) *
I love my Orange cabs with V30's. Great quality and a rock solid build. I was using a 4x12 but now I am using a couple 2x12 cabs. One open backed and one closed back. Here is a 1x12 cab with a V30.

https://orangeamps.com/ppc112/


I'm not saying Orange is bad, far from it. My brother loves Orange amps. The thing is, for the price of PPC 112 I can get a custom 212 cab. I'm opting for 112 which would be even cheaper and I have some other equipment to buy.
QUOTE (fkalich @ Dec 26 2018, 07:53 PM) *
I have looked hard to find a speaker that I like as much as a Vintage 30, and have always failed in my attempts. Birch is the wood of choice but poplar is fine in a good quality cabinet. I would prefer 18mm ply to 15mm though. I have single speaker, dual, and quad cabinets. In general I prefer the quads. I consider the speaker cabinet so very important, just makes sure you will be satisfied with what you get. It is not as easy to sell a cabinet as other things due shipping costs if you are unhappy. I am not sure what you mean by RMP, if that has to do with loudness, it is a myth that ohms matter in that regard, just match it to your amplifier, or reasonably close.



The custom shop is about 30 km away from my place, so in case anything breaks, etc. it won't be a problem. I just need to choose the right design. I'm not planning on selling it and I won't have to if I choose well. I had no idea about the RMP. Everywhere I see comments like "this many Ohms = this many quarters of power"

QUOTE (klasaine @ Dec 27 2018, 02:59 AM) *
This is pretty much spot on ...



The Joyo head will accept anything from 8 to 16 ohms.
16 ply, Baltic birch at almost 27mm (about 1 inch) is what the classic Marshall 4x12 is made from.
Mesa cabs are usually a bit thinner. Bogner makes cabs that are 30mm thick. Pine and poplar are lighter than Birch if weight is an issue but it can also be a brighter sounding wood. *Fender cabs are pine. Many boutique, vintage style amp builders use poplar (it resonates great).
I have both, closed and open back cabs. Closed = more low end thump. Open = more diffusion. Both are great for different things. A combo of open and closed does not result in "the best of both worlds" but it is a cool option. I use a open/closed 2x12 cab a lot. It's great but it's also different than either my fully closed or fully open cabs.
Also, if you are thinking of two speakers as opposed to one or four, two on top of each other sounds different than two side by side. Side by side = a bit more low end depending on the baffling inside of the cabinet. Piggy back = brighter and tighter (again, depending on the baffling inside).

*If you're looking for more defined low end and a more modern sound you might consider the Celestion G12H75. It's a tighter speaker than the Vintage 30 (G12H30). It's common to have one of each in a 2x12 cab or two of each in 4x12 and it's a great sound.


I was thinking about closed cab, mostly because that's how Mesa cabs are. I've read a little about it at work and it seems both open and closed cabs have their pros and cons and tbh, I don't know which would be better for me.

As for Celestion 75, it doesn't sound bad but I still like V30 more. Maybe when I upgrade to dual I'll use both speakers. Also, I'm finding a lot of comments suggesting that V30 is better in studio while 75 performs better live. Most of the pros supposedly do it.

This post has been edited by Adam M: Dec 27 2018, 05:08 PM
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klasaine
post Dec 27 2018, 09:05 PM
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QUOTE (Adam M @ Dec 27 2018, 09:01 AM) *
As for Celestion 75, it doesn't sound bad but I still like V30 more. Maybe when I upgrade to dual I'll use both speakers. Also, I'm finding a lot of comments suggesting that V30 is better in studio while 75 performs better live. Most of the pros supposedly do it.


Mesa makes both closed and open back cabs. I have a beautiful open back mesa 1x12 cab. The back baffle covers 2/3 of the back. There is Celestion 'black shadow' 90 watt in there. *One of the best sounding cabs I've ever owned (and there's been many).

As far as "what pros do" - it's all over the map. Most guys don't even know what speakers are in their amps. In the recording environment it's always a combination of low wattage and high wattage power handling. Anything from 8" vintage Fender champ speakers to 150 watt handling EVs and everything in between. There is no standard other than to say that it's "a little bit of this and little bit of that".

If you are gonna go with V30s, which are a great choice, I would recommend Baltic birch and 18mm to 30mm thickness.


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Adam M
post Dec 27 2018, 09:25 PM
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QUOTE (klasaine @ Dec 27 2018, 09:05 PM) *
Mesa makes both closed and open back cabs. I have a beautiful open back mesa 1x12 cab. The back baffle covers 2/3 of the back. There is Celestion 'black shadow' 90 watt in there. *One of the best sounding cabs I've ever owned (and there's been many).

As far as "what pros do" - it's all over the map. Most guys don't even know what speakers are in their amps. In the recording environment it's always a combination of low wattage and high wattage power handling. Anything from 8" vintage Fender champ speakers to 150 watt handling EVs and everything in between. There is no standard other than to say that it's "a little bit of this and little bit of that".

If you are gonna go with V30s, which are a great choice, I would recommend Baltic birch and 18mm to 30mm thickness.

As for the birch, I think it's only 18mm but I can try asking for thicker. I'm still not sure about the back but guess I'll go with closed and see how I like it. I could also visit a regular shop and test play all 3 types when I have a day off.

Is it possible to have a cab done the way, so you can chain it with another cab? That could be pretty useful in the future for me.
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klasaine
post Dec 27 2018, 11:23 PM
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QUOTE (Adam M @ Dec 27 2018, 01:25 PM) *
As for the birch, I think it's only 18mm but I can try asking for thicker. I'm still not sure about the back but guess I'll go with closed and see how I like it. I could also visit a regular shop and test play all 3 types when I have a day off.

Is it possible to have a cab done the way, so you can chain it with another cab? That could be pretty useful in the future for me.


18mm is good and very standard.

Yes, you can have a cab built with the feature of it having a daisy chain or parallel out. But, if you want to 'daisy chain' another spkr cab to whatever you end up getting, you would need two 16ohm speakers (in separate cabinets). Daisy chaining (one cab out into another cab) is running the spkrs in parallel which will halve the ohms i.e., two 16ohm spkrs in parallel now result in an 8ohm load. Two 8ohm spkrs in parallel result in a 4 ohm load which your Zombie head isn't designed to handle.

This post has been edited by klasaine: Dec 28 2018, 02:04 AM


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Adam M
post Dec 31 2018, 09:20 PM
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I'm sorry for refreshing the thread. I keep reading and watching vids, so I can choose the best stuff for me. Now I came across two types of V30 - Chinese (regular) and British (apparently custom made for Mesa). Can you hear the difference? There are samples on YouTube but I doubt someone used the same cab just for comparison or at least it's not specified. So the difference I hear can be made by wood just as well.
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klasaine
post Dec 31 2018, 11:22 PM
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The stock V30s have been made in china for awhile now, since probably 2002.
I personally can't tell the difference (yes, I have both) but I have not done a 'test' i.e., same exact cabinet and same age of speaker.
New speakers sound different than old speakers and mine are all various ages.

A UK made, Mesa V30 will cost you about $50 more than the Chinese.


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Adam M
post Jan 1 2019, 12:35 AM
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QUOTE (klasaine @ Dec 31 2018, 11:22 PM) *
The stock V30s have been made in china for awhile now, since probably 2002.
I personally can't tell the difference (yes, I have both) but I have not done a 'test' i.e., same exact cabinet and same age of speaker.
New speakers sound different than old speakers and mine are all various ages.

A UK made, Mesa V30 will cost you about $50 more than the Chinese.

Some dude is selling his from Orange 412 and Marshall 2960AV, cheaper than a new Chinese. I'd have to deliver it to the shop but that's not a problem. Should I bother?
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klasaine
post Jan 1 2019, 07:07 PM
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Maybe.
How much?


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Adam M
post Jan 2 2019, 02:23 AM
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QUOTE (klasaine @ Jan 1 2019, 07:07 PM) *
Maybe.
How much?

About 93 USD. A local shop has these in stock, in cabs, so I'll go try it out first and compare to a regular one. But if you didn't see a difference, I don't expect to either.
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klasaine
post Jan 2 2019, 04:53 PM
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I don't know what a new (Chinese) v30 costs in Poland but in the States they're $99 usd.

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Adam M
post Jan 2 2019, 08:22 PM
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QUOTE (klasaine @ Jan 2 2019, 04:53 PM) *
I don't know what a new (Chinese) v30 costs in Poland but in the States they're $99 usd.

You can't buy a new one in Poland. Either you buy one from the US or remove it from a Mesa cab. Shipping costs are too big and I see no reason why anyone would remove it from Mesa. Sometimes there's used on an auction, like the one I found.

Anyway, I visited the shop and as much as I can tell, there's no difference between regular cabs. So I'll take a Chinese, new one which will also have 2-year-warranty and matches the amp's resistance.

I fell in love with Mesa 2x12, though. Now I have something to look forward to after I assemble my basic bedroom studio smile.gif
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Adam M
post Jan 10 2019, 01:58 PM
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Here's the cab, all finished and ready to rock! I chose carbon finish but the purple one they had in stock would look even better, maybe; and Mesa-type grill. The back is currently 50/50 but can be closed too. I'll try both and see what works for me smile.gif The speaker is 8 Ohm V30, I love it!

It's huge and it's heavy and it's really amazing. For a custom made, it doesn't fall behind all the big companies' cabs I tried out at the regular music store. In fact, it's better than some of them around and little above its price tag. It cost 780 PLN (about 181 EUR, 209 USD or 164 GBP).
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