Printable Version of Topic

Posted by: Coram Deo Jan 30 2008, 10:29 PM

I am as much to blame as the next guy, but I just realized that of all the "in the style of" lessons we don't have a Jimmy Page lesson. This should be fixed ASAP, and if I was good enough I would do it but since I suck I'll leave it up to one of our instuctors. This is a very serious issue, we don't want to upset the rock gods and put a jinx on the whole thing! ;-) ALL HAIL LED ZEPPLIN!!

Posted by: SteveBeer Jan 30 2008, 10:35 PM

Agreed. His style has influenced at least one of the other guitarists that have their own "in the style of" lesson.

Posted by: Hisham Jan 30 2008, 10:40 PM

maybe you have right

Posted by: Muris Jan 31 2008, 01:53 AM

To be honest,I never felt Page as "unique" guitar player with some sort of trademark,lead wise...
But compositions and riffing abilities,well that's another story for sure

Posted by: OrganisedConfusion Jan 31 2008, 02:03 AM

Please do a John McLaughlin style lesson. I beg you lol. I need to learn from the starter of Jazz Fusion. A Jimmy Page lesson would surely go down well with everybody though.

Posted by: fkalich Jan 31 2008, 02:06 AM

So wrong.

I was thinking the same thing just the other day. Also no Clapton. Go figure.

Posted by: JukeboxHero Jan 31 2008, 02:12 AM

I have always thought of Jimmy Page as a great guitarist he was pretty revolutionary. I THINK he was the first one to use a bow on his guitar but that is uncertain. That was so simple but really great. So many guitarists have been influenced by his playing. I would love a Jimmy Page lesson. He is so well rounded as a guitarist from the immigrant song to since i've been loving you to the legendary Stairway to Heaven. Sorry for talking so much but I really like Jimmy Page as a guitarist.

Posted by: Muris Jan 31 2008, 02:13 AM

Maybe I didn't understand,what is wrong,my personal opinion about him as unique(lead) player?

Posted by: Muris Jan 31 2008, 02:50 AM

And thread dies

Page is really a Legend,has influenced MILLIONS of players world wide,no one can deny that!!

All I wanted to say that I(only me)don't see him as a unique player when it comes to leads,only leads.
And I didn't say he's bad lead player,no way,
I just said he's not THAT unique from my point of view,that's all.

But it'd be cool to have a lesson in his style,same with Clapton.

Posted by: ace_frehely Jan 31 2008, 03:07 AM

I agree..Jimmy Page is the best..he plays one of the best solos that has ever been created..

Posted by: Tjchep Jan 31 2008, 03:12 AM

I agree with muris, hes had good riffs and comps, but his solos didnt cut it really, not anything to different than other stuff that was being put out at the same time. And so many more players today have the same sort of style of him I feel.

I was in guitar center playing some licks 5 months ago when I only knew the pentatonic scale and a guy came up to me and listened for a while and said man you must like jimmy page alot. I said I didn't even know who he was.

Everything written above is purely my opinion, no need to argue it .

Posted by: SLASH91 Jan 31 2008, 03:22 AM

I agree with Muris; but we must remember that he was a very revolutionary guitarist at his time. And has written some of the best music ever.

Plus Led Zeppelin's music laid the foundation for metal and rock for years to come. I'd say that that's a pretty huge acomplishment.

Posted by: UncleSkillet Jan 31 2008, 03:59 AM

This is a little disturbing to me and I’m not sure what to think about all of these posts at this point. Some of you guy’s are saying they made a difference, and others are saying they can’t cut the mustered (so to speak) with today’s music (this is my take on what I have read so fare). Eric Clapton and Jimmy Page have truly made there stamp on music, as well as where it is today. Just cause they had older equipment and weren’t (or aren't / maybe considered) shredders doesn’t mean they weren’t cool. They are one of the reasons you are playing guitar today!

Thanks

That’s my 2 cents

PS: sorry for the spelling error. It happens

Posted by: Tjchep Jan 31 2008, 04:10 AM

He was totally revolutionary, but his style is overused today(IMHO), Hes great and stuff but honestly if he put out a solo album under a different name that no one heard of I don't think his stuff would sell that well in todays day.

I probably wouldn't buy it and listen to it more than once.

Anyways, Like I should know talking about previous era's guitar gods is not for any of us to argue about, they had their time and now other's have theirs.

tj

Posted by: wylde guitar Jan 31 2008, 04:13 AM

i forget where but the other day i saw a list of top 100 solo's of all time and stairway was peaked at #1. (Smells like teen spirit was #15 which made me mad cuz it's a great song but a decent solo, grrrr).

Posted by: Robwylde Jan 31 2008, 04:31 AM

Muris hit on something I guess I didn't consider. His lead playing doen't really stand out as extremely unique, but his prasing and rythmic pattern's are tops! We definitely need a in style of Jimmy Page. Maybe so many have copied his style we don't realize how unique he is? ZEPPLIN ROCKS!

Posted by: fatb0t Jan 31 2008, 04:42 AM

Well, if you think back to his era - growing straight out of the blues scene - he was pretty revolutionary. Led Zeppelin basically ripped off american blues and made british rock...He had a much darker edge than Clapton, Hendrix, or Santana...all these greats existed at one time, holy crap I was born during the wrong era!

Posted by: skennington Jan 31 2008, 05:02 AM

My two cents.

It's all in timeframe. For the era, he was great. Just a different style. To be quite honest, I liked LZ, but they were never my favorite from that era. Page is famous for playing his guitar with a cello bow, as on the songs "Dazed and Confused", "How Many More Times", "Kashmir", and in the interlude of "In the Evening". How different is that, I would say that's a matter of style.

He did recruit JB, and RP back when the band was called the Yardbirds. If I'm not mistaken, JPJ actually contacted him to join the band.

So yes, IMO, I would consider him great!

Posted by: Muris Jan 31 2008, 06:45 AM

Ouch,my post made some real turbulence

Posted by: Juan M. Valero Jan 31 2008, 08:44 AM

Oh, poor Muris, hehe, he only have explain his own opinion. Don't worry guys, I think the best solution is a "In the style of Led Zep" because they had an interesting style, and it's easier to do this lesson

Posted by: MickeM Jan 31 2008, 09:34 AM

Hehe yes muris, in this case I think it's safe to say your personal opinion is wrong

I get your point and surely this goes for many guitarists that maybe wouldn't have made it with support of a unique band. Led Zeppelin as a whole were unique, so Page was noticed. In this case maybe the Yardbirds helped a bit but that "plant school" for musicians is a story of it's own and some really interesting coincidents in switching between guitarists that all became huge.

Same with AC/DC I'd say, would Angus have been noticed if it hadn't been for Bon Scott's and brother Malcolm?
Did Ian Gillan help Blackmoore to become noticed?

Someone like Eddie Van Halen I belive would have made it anytime, anywhere end if he had had me as a drummer in his band

It's just personal opinions. Just as muris I can be wrong too

Hope the initial "urgent message" was taken so some OT discussion is allowed

Posted by: Mackietao Jan 31 2008, 10:34 AM

As far as personal opinions goes is very hard to "be wrong". You might lack some important knowledge, but it´s still your opinion from what you know. It´s really hard when it comes to taste to judge.
As in Muris case I do not really think he lacks a lot of knowledge. I´m not saying any of you others is wrong, but it somehow comes down to opinion unless is pretty much proofable.

Me personally have only just heard the name Jimmy Page, mostly on guitar sites. Never knew any song he played until know when someone mentioned stairway to heaven. I´ve actually played that song back in the days when I was playing guitar (now I restarted since 2-3 months ago). And I´ve took a class in music history. Course was divided into 30´s , 40´s , 50´s , 60´s music, 70´s music and so on.. And then divided in to Rock music, blues, etc. Led Zepelin was brought up, never Jimmy Page. (that was just an anekdote, I have no personal opinion really in the matter since I know nothing about him).


Easier to judge when it´s stupid stuff like we all notice a Porce 911 and some dude claims that´s not a car, it´s a smaller mountain.

Posted by: mattacuk Jan 31 2008, 11:12 AM

Well you know . In all honesty Jimmy Page as a guitarist doesent do it for me in the slightest.... but that doesnt mean he i not an excellent guitarist - its just he dosent "float my boat" as it were

Music is so diverse and subjective to the listener not everyone is going to feel the same way about an artist as the next fan! Whats Important is that the fans enjoy there music, and in this case maybe enjoy an "In the Style of Jimmy Page" lesson

Posted by: Tomotoms Jan 31 2008, 11:18 AM

I love Led Zeppelin.

Jimmy might not have the amazingly tight technique of Vai, Gilbert or Batio, but he can take partial credit for their playing as he has influenced EVERYONE!!!!

Posted by: MickeM Jan 31 2008, 11:23 AM

He was a studio musician prior to Led Zeppelin, or Yardbirds even, and I don't know if studio musicians are hired on criterias that they can apply different styles without adding their own coloring. So to say - Make it sound like the band you're recording with no Page in it.
Just as a parallell to own style vs being a good musician in general

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Jan 31 2008, 01:50 PM

Agreed - we need a Page lesson urgently! There is a fire!

Posted by: Coram Deo Jan 31 2008, 06:05 PM

MAN!! Did not think this post would get that kinda response. I will say this, Muris has a point, Pages biggest talent is his song writting, but lets be honest, we can LEARN speed and technique but God givin talent your born with! I should have said we need a Zepplin lesson. Page is an awesome guitarist but if he were to play on another artists album I might not know it unless I saw his name on it, that I'll give you, but when HE writes it....its GOLD. And I generally agree there is no wrong opinion, as long as the giver isn't just stupid, and the last time I watched a Muris lesson, stupid did not come to mind....WOW, HOLY CRAP, and DAMN I'LL NEVER BE ABLE TO DO THAT, came to mind but not stupid. To be honest I was hopeing Muris would be the one to do it.
There is one thing that kinda bothered me, one of the posts said they did not think Page was worthy of a style lesson and then went on to say that they did not even know who he was 5 months ago. Now I surely don't know every guitar player ever, but if I don't know much about a player, I sure as heck would not share my opinion about him or her. I guess being a blues player myself, I hold a high value on the people who set the bar before me.

Posted by: rokchik Feb 1 2008, 12:29 AM

I love the way you think man!

We are definatley in need of a Page lesson for sure. I know a few of Gabriels lessons have some Page influence, Rocker Riff 2 comes to mind, but Jimmy is surely worthy of his own "in the style of" lesson. Thanks for bringing this up man.

rok

PS: almost forgot....ALL HAIL LED ZEPPELIN

Posted by: Nick334 Feb 1 2008, 07:39 PM

I think Gab is the man for the job

Posted by: wylde guitar Feb 1 2008, 10:32 PM

I have no idea why it took this long for someone to realize we didn't have 1 lesson in style of Page!!! I'm kickin myself lol.
When someone asks my top 5 fav. guitarists hes right up there

Posted by: blindwillie Feb 1 2008, 11:08 PM

No worries Muris, that's a good thing. Makes people think
Of course I disagree with you though.

If you are saying that it's the solos that defines a guitarist then in my opinion you are wrong. Listening to solos that's not really part of the song (showing off) is just as exciting as looking at how excellent someone can handle a toothbrush.

One of the things that make Page great is that he does the job, he completes Zeppelin and makes it what it is. He's not overdoing it (well, except for some far out solo's, which where exactly right at the time). Just like Gilmour it's exactly the right amount of noise or silence at exactly the right time. Lot's of variations when he repeats a riff or a verse.
In Zeppelin he played this way because that was the right way. In Yardbirds the sound was completly different, and the right thing there. In my opinion Page where outstanding from all the guitarists at the same time.

Posted by: JVM Feb 1 2008, 11:26 PM

Yes... a Page lesson is the most needed in the style of right now And I agree I think gabe could nail it, but I think theres probably a few other guys here who'd do a great job with it too! And we need a clapton one O_o

Personally, I think Page is one of the greatest guitarists to have lived. His stuff may be pretty generic nowadays, but he is the reason why that sounds generic. He's extremely influenced by the blues, but it was he and Hendrix mainly, among others, who made rock and roll what it is today. Clapton is a great blues player. Santana is off doing his own thing. But I think it was hendrix and page, and others like Keith Richards and such who really defined rock and roll for the next generation to come along and take up the mantle.

Just my opinion

Posted by: Muris Feb 2 2008, 01:53 AM

Of course I didn't say that!!!
I sad his solo playing isn't that unique for my taste and view,
like per example Knopfler,Jeff Beck,Blackmore,Hendrix etc ,
these guys have their own VEERY powerful trademark,
even today which is quite amazing,you try to copy them a bit and it'd be sooo obvious.
I putted more light on his solo parts cause most the In Style Lessons here are solo stuff,correct me if I'm wrong.
And finally,we are ALL aware of the fact that soloing is just a small piece of being guitarist,musician generally.
Composing,innovations,generation leader, I would say those are major parts of Page's greatness!

Posted by: Andrew Cockburn Feb 2 2008, 03:12 AM

All great guitarists must be seen in the context of their era.

Is a model model T ford a good car by todays standards? No, but it was the most popular car of its era.

Just because the craft of guitar playing has moved on and is today judged by different technical standards, does not invalidate the contributions of earlier players. Jimmy Page is not a Vai or Pettrucci, but in his day he was the equivalent - a dude who was breaking the rules and playing stuff the like of which noone had ever heard before - that has to count for something.

To say nothing of the technique versus musical feel argument - older guitarists like page played slower, less notes, but perhaps they were closer to the music as a result. I realize that this comment may be contravrsial as we all have different opinions, but I am trying to make the point that faster and more modern techniques are not necessarily better, because at the end of it all, the judgement of music is in how it makes us as listeners feel, not hom many notes we play, or how flawlessly we play them.

For that reaosn, I see players like Page, Clapton & Hendrix to be just as deserving of the guitar god label now as they were in their time, modern developments not withstanding, but at the same time you have to give props to the newer guys for taking the art to an entirely new and unbelievable level - its all part of the same thing whichever way you cut it.

Ok, I'm done ...

Posted by: inertia Feb 3 2008, 01:47 AM

I'm a bit surprised that some people don't think he had great leads, everyone is entitled to their opinion though for sure

If you have not checked out a lot of his stuff, check out his live playing on the song remains the same live, specifically the No Quarter and Dazed and Confused solos, they are breathtaking and not just a mindless flurry of notes.

Granted a lot of his leads were were pentatonic based, some of his other songs, such as his acoustic pieces and songs like the Rain Song, are just pure magic IMO, so far outside the realm of typical sounding music at the time.

Posted by: Muris Feb 3 2008, 01:58 AM

And once more I've been misunderstood
Page's leads ARE great,I wasn't talking of greatness(you define it) but of uniqueness,a special stamp.
Many players have great and powerful leads but without major personality imho.

Posted by: shellshock1911 Feb 3 2008, 02:06 AM

Page took a new view of rhythm guitar and thus made tons of cool riffs and rhythms. However his soloing is pretty much just basic pentatonic licks, nothing special really.

Posted by: OrganisedConfusion Feb 3 2008, 02:28 AM

I will forever dislike Led Zeppelin as I think Deep Purple kicked their ass back then. Jimmy Page is average at best whereas Blackmore was something really special.

Posted by: Robwylde Feb 3 2008, 02:36 AM

Every guitarist has an opinion about every guitarist they have heard. Page has always done it for me. I'd say he is one of the reasons I started playing guitar. In Muris defense I believe he has a point. Some guitarist just have that sound and style of playing that if another guitarist tried to play as there own everyone would say hey he's copin that from so and so. Page doesn't stand out that way, he has other great tangible's. I've gotta go play some Black Dog

Posted by: blindwillie Feb 3 2008, 02:28 PM

Hehe, I would say the exact opposit.
Don't get me wrong. Led Zeppelin and Deep Purple are my top 2 favs. But I do put Zep before DP, being the more inventive and "wider" of them. The same with Page/Blackmore. Page being the interesting of the two, and Blackmore, as skilled as he may be, turning into some easy-listening sell out, quite boring actually. I wouldn't call either of them avarage though.

Posted by: blindwillie Feb 3 2008, 02:30 PM

Great, thanks. I see what you ment now

Posted by: inertia Feb 3 2008, 04:09 PM

Actually Muris I was not referring to your comments, I understood what you were saying exactly, that his style was not particularly unique leadwise
It's just that after you said that others were saying that they did not think his leads were great, which again is opinion/preference, I was just a bit surprised is all

Posted by: Gerardo Siere Feb 4 2008, 12:06 AM

I agree with muris Page´s uniques are about the sond of the whole groove, how he recorded and make sounds the guitar/s the textures, the micking, etc his lead for it´s notes alone are not unique in comparison with his less known predecessor or even his contemporary, also the fact that´s is not the guitar playing alone it´s how the whole band that sound so special. I would´t like a lesson of some pentatonic riffing with some lifeless library sample backing track.

Posted by: jacmoe Feb 4 2008, 09:46 PM

Muris, you are wrong!
Imitate a guy in big numbers and over time, his playing goes from being unique to being mainstream.


You are dead wrong here!
First: basic pentatonic licks did not exsist back then - they became basic after Page played them first.
Second: Page is known for using Celtic and melodic minor a lot, including classical modal stuff and more exotic scales.
Third: Blues really is based around the pentatonic. Page grew rock from the Blues, remember?

If it weren't for Page we wouldn't have Slash thirty years later..

Posted by: OrganisedConfusion Feb 4 2008, 10:05 PM

I hate Page even more now

I want Stone Temple Pilots back. What is Scott Weiland doing with that useless guy.Stone Temple Pilots = Awesome, Velvet Revolver = WHHHHHHHHHHHHHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

Posted by: Slammer Feb 4 2008, 10:28 PM

Well, Jimmy Page used to be my favorite-well tied with Clapton.

I used to be really into his music and I use to be able alot of his solos note for note. But After awhile, I guess I got a little bored.

So I understand how the Page fanatics feel, cuz I was once one.

The thing you have to remember about Page is that most of Zeppelin's Best known Work came out between '68-72.
Mainly the first four albums which are the most well known.

And in '69 or so when songs Like, "Dazed and Confused,Communication Breakdown,Good Times Bad Times, Heartbreaker" etc. came out it must of been Revolutionary for the time.

Esp, the solo on Heartbreaker-When it came out in 1969. I think it was almost like Shredding before anyone even knew what Shredding was.

And JP definetly Inspired countless guitar players like Slash and Zakk Wylde etc.

But... The thing that JP is known as is the Riffmaster.

If you've heard any of LZ music you will definetly admit that some of the Riffs are catchy.

That what I think of when I think of Page, His Riffs more than his Solos.

Although I've Always Enjoyed http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=go8dpmBxGcQ

Posted by: Muris Feb 4 2008, 11:30 PM

I was talking about leads,his RIFFS are mainstream.

Posted by: Gus Feb 5 2008, 12:57 AM

As polemic as the topic turned to be I have to start by saying that I fully agree that a Jimmy Page style lesson is urgent . However, that will be quite a hard job, as I try to explain below.

As always, we can only talk about our favorite guitarists, not about best guitarists. Some people think that the best is the most famous, other people think is the most technical, or the most impressive. I just put them there for what my ears like (something that actually can change during time). So in the end, we can't really use the word best when we should just say favorite.
In fact Jimmy Page is #1 in my favorite guitarist list. Still I understand what Muris tried to say. Take Mark Knopfler for example. If someone sing a verse and then try to complement that with some lick played with 3 fingers and it will be hard to say he is not being imitated.
So I think it is way easier to capture the signature of Mark Knopfler and turn that into a style lesson than doing the same with Jimmy Page. Stating that does not make MK better than JP nor vice versa.

What makes a JP style? Pentatonic scales? Using alternative tunings in acoustic records? Mandolin solos? Using a bow in a guitar? Maybe it is versatility that makes it hard to define his style. We probably need a bunch of JP lessons, each of them just analyzing one aspect.

Another thing that is amazing is the way he blended with the rest of Led.
Look at Lemon song. That is probably more well known for being one of the best bass grooves ever. But think about the vocals. 0.01% of the human population may ever dream of singing like that (women included). All of that with such cool drums and rhythmic variations. Now listen to the guitar. Oh here is another cool riff. And then, OMG, the guitar is crying. Now it is speaking. Now it echoes Plant's voice. And squeezing a lemonade... Well, just listen to it with open mind.
Another example of ultra creative stuff. Look at D'yer Mak'er. Who would figure out to play reggae in that way?


P.S. I guess also that JP proved my theory that playing les pauls for many years will make your shoulders unequal ( I love the sound but, did it need to be that heavy?)

Posted by: jacmoe Feb 7 2008, 09:15 PM

Sorry for digging up this topic, but RealLife was pulling me away..

I agree that Page - by todays standards - isn't much of a lead guitarist. He's too sloppy.
He was probably the first pentatonic shredder around, in his day.
Without argue the most imitated and influential guitarist ever - he paved the way. And showed the world how a rock star behaves.

His riffing is awesome - even by todays standards.

So, yeah. Pretty difficult to make a soloing lesson about him, but a melodic minor riffing lesson or two would be possible to make.

Posted by: Muris Feb 7 2008, 11:49 PM

This is not fair,your english is a lot better than mine
so everyone understand what you're saying!!
Joking,well said,just what I wanted to describe,thanks .