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GMC Forum _ Bands and Guitarists _ Why Do Some Guitarists Become Globally Famous?
Posted by: Daniel Realpe Dec 31 2009, 06:28 PM
what are your thoughts on this?
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Posted by: lcsdds Dec 31 2009, 06:53 PM
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Marketing is what I think. Emir's thread on illegal downloading leads me to believe that a WELL PAYING career in music is going to be harder than ever......very discouraging but I think it is the reality of the world we live in. Read this article.....
http://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=132721
I think that unortunately talent has VERY little to do with success in the music business........
Posted by: Staffy Dec 31 2009, 07:08 PM
I think talent has about 10%, willingness to sell out Yourself to crappy music 40%, knowing the right people 30% and the looks 20%... maybe I've forgotten something here??? And btw. I dont think Steve Vai is making THAT big money either (of course for beeing a guitar player he is) The problem here is that nowadays guitar players is out of style, You shall go for some speedy-words instead of speedy licks. <preferrable on top of some sampled noise that a cocaine-addicted producer put together in-between partying with his hip-hop friends!!! 
//Staffay
Posted by: lcsdds Dec 31 2009, 07:10 PM
//Staffay
Posted by: Sollesnes Dec 31 2009, 07:39 PM
Michael Lee Firkins is also a very famous guitar player. 
Technique is not so important. Being able to make music that reach people emotionally (be it by being amazed, sad, happy, etc etc) is another thing. You need to make the music that people need to hear at the right moment, looking the way people want you to look right then, and meet the right people who can help you there. Music is different now than the 80's, so guitar shredders won't be world famous in the same way anyhow now
Posted by: Staffy Dec 31 2009, 07:49 PM
Oki, I go for that... (but first I have some things to fix... an account on Virgin Islands, some undercover company stuff and a trip to Columbia to get some inspiration for my new artist...
)
Posted by: lcsdds Dec 31 2009, 08:16 PM
)Let me know when you are ready and bring me back some "inspiration" from columbia too.......
Posted by: intemperateControl Dec 31 2009, 08:17 PM
I have heard technically great, and I mean great players who imitate (and even exceed) the skill level of some of the greatest
known original bands and players, but who have no real fire in their own originals. Originality and fire (if you know what I mean),
as well as the ability to perform it all consistently in live shows is what is necessary. This is what will enthuse both audiences and
in turn the big players (labels & investors). If you read in depth about some of the greatest bands, when they were up and coming,
it was their ability to enthuse large crowds that gained them popularity and ultimately got them on top - this comes first before the
album sales. Did you think album sales came first before fame? I mean, requiring 50 takes for one recording and expecting to succeed
by album sales alone without the preceding qualities is not reasonable. If you were an investor, Who would you invest in? "Nirvana,"
who performs as well live as on their recordings and has developed a real following, or the "No One Knows Them" band whose skill
level seems far greater but are far less known because they can't cut it live, but are only heard by recordings? As far as looks go,
most of the best rock bands of all times have some of the ugliest, meanest looking dudes I ever seen. Maybe pop star managers
rely more on looks than on talent and so, shallow tunes beget reliance on mediocre minds. But, on a larger scale I personally think
much more of the world around us. Who will attest any differently? I believe that we have a vastly large audience that remains
untapped on a global scale here in the present day. Consider all the people you know who feel the same, and all the people they
know, etc., etc. Rap sucks - suckers (is that PG enough?)! Hope so - I'm just speaking freely here- just like the music - good or bad.
Guess I've said enough for today. I really like many of the the topics you guys post on here - all of which relates to our interests.
Hang loose guys... 
Posted by: Staffy Dec 31 2009, 08:34 PM
I've already ordered the ticket, but unfortunately its not gonna be until the end of next year since the CBS/Virgin/Warner guy's have booked everything else in advance....
Posted by: Boson Dec 31 2009, 08:35 PM
I'm assuming you mean cofee
Posted by: Staffy Dec 31 2009, 08:42 PM
known original bands and players, but who have no real fire in their own originals. Originality and fire (if you know what I mean),
as well as the ability to perform it all consistently in live shows is what is necessary. This is what will enthuse both audiences and
in turn the big players (labels & investors). If you read in depth about some of the greatest bands, when they were up and coming,
it was their ability to enthuse large crowds that gained them popularity and ultimately got them on top - this comes first before the
album sales. Did you think album sales came first before fame? I mean, requiring 50 takes for one recording and expecting to succeed
by album sales alone without the preceding qualities is not reasonable. If you were an investor, Who would you invest in? "Nirvana,"
who performs as well live as on their recordings and has developed a real following, or the "No One Knows Them" band whose skill
level seems far greater but are far less known because they can't cut it live, but are only heard by recordings? As far as looks go,
most of the best rock bands of all times have some of the ugliest, meanest looking dudes I ever seen. Maybe pop star managers
rely more on looks than on talent and so, shallow tunes beget reliance on mediocre minds. But, on a larger scale I personally think
much more of the world around us. Who will attest any differently? I believe that we have a vastly large audience that remains
untapped on a global scale here in the present day. Consider all the people you know who feel the same, and all the people they
know, etc., etc. Rap sucks - suckers (is that PG enough?)! Hope so - I'm just speaking freely here- just like the music - good or bad.
Guess I've said enough for today. I really like many of the the topics you guys post on here - all of which relates to our interests.
Hang loose guys...
Hmmm, I think once in a while the record company's goes for the "bad boy's" to keep some sort of Rock'n'Roll image, also it has to do with general trends in both society and music. For instance, every 10-15 years or so there is a boost for hard rock/heavy metal, so the timing issue is of most importance as well imo. (and in-between we have Milli-Vanillis, Rap-raps, Spice Girls and some Elton John wanna-bees...)
Of course! Do they sell anything else in Colombia????
Posted by: intemperateControl Dec 31 2009, 08:44 PM
Of course! Do they sell anything else in Colombia????
Great - thanks for finishing my thought. Couldn't have said it better myself.
I mean really. Staffy, you are the man! He's cool, you must admit...
Posted by: lcsdds Dec 31 2009, 08:48 PM
Of course coffee.....Preferably decaf.......
Posted by: intemperateControl Dec 31 2009, 09:01 PM
Decaf! Get the hell outta here!!! Anyway, Where will our next meeting
be taking place - aka the coffee thred... Decaf go home! Ha!
Hey, no offense intended - you're one of the best guitarists on here.
But I mean hey, you need some caffeine to identify here, hahaha!
Posted by: Staffy Dec 31 2009, 09:30 PM
be taking place - aka the coffee thred... Decaf go home! Ha!
Hey, no offense intended - you're one of the best guitarists on here.
But I mean hey, you need some caffeine to identify here, hahaha!
Posted by: lcsdds Dec 31 2009, 09:48 PM
be taking place - aka the coffee thred... Decaf go home! Ha!
Hey, no offense intended - you're one of the best guitarists on here.
But I mean hey, you need some caffeine to identify here, hahaha!
Posted by: jstcrsn Dec 31 2009, 09:53 PM
steve has been in the bus along time , played with alot of people , keeps his name and appearances out there.
I got the opportunity to talk to some signed bands a while back and was stuned to find out that they had been together for over seven years and just recently had their first radio hit. i believe longjevity( don't know if i spelled that right) is also just as important . that's why so many bands don't make it . Trying to find four guys or girls to stay togehter long enough to make it is extremely difficult
And i would like to ad : stage presence and showmanship go along way. I would of rather watched steve, it was much more enjoyable and i feel alot off good guitar players rely on just there playing to get the job done. That's what i mis the most about the metal shows i grew up with. ps. those shows went country
Posted by: lcsdds Dec 31 2009, 09:57 PM
I got the opportunity to talk to some signed bands a while back and was stuned to find out that they had been together for over seven years and just recently had their first radio hit. i believe longjevity( don't know if i spelled that right) is also just as important . that's why so many bands don't make it . Trying to find four guys or girls to stay togehter long enough to make it is extremely difficult
And i would like to ad : stage presence and showmanship go along way. I would of rather watched steve, it was much more enjoyable and i feel alot off good guitar players rely on just there playing to get the job done. That's what i mis the most about the metal shows i grew up with. ps. those shows went country
Good point about stage presence......I saw G3 with Satch, Vai and Yngwie. If I am in a car driving then Satch is what I want to listen too......but live Vai wins hands down......although Yngwie was trying......he was killing me with those high kicks he was doing.
Posted by: jstcrsn Dec 31 2009, 10:34 PM
thought this was sort -of interesting after i read this thread
opps forgot to add the line
http://new.music.yahoo.com/u2/news/u2-tour-tops-annual-rankings-in-north-america--61874534
Posted by: Fusar Jan 1 2010, 05:18 AM
For me it's destiny 
Some people are more talented on playing guitar, others are not, some are lazy, some play all day long. If you work hard, you'll certainly reach a great level of technique.
But then, how much soul can you put into your playing? I think most of people who were/are in real troubles have more to say to the world through their instruments than others. Do you know the right people to promote you? Do you feel comfortable on stage? You can spin this chain of questions so long...there are so much factors that play there, so for me, everyone who has this passion for music can be a great musician (the one more than others), but there can be only one inconvenient in the chain and you won't be famous...
I don't think I express myself that good way, but I hope you understand what I wanna say!
Posted by: maharzan Jan 1 2010, 07:14 AM
I see another example.. funtwo from youtube.. luck is one big factor too imo. he is more famous than the original composer.
Posted by: Staffy Jan 1 2010, 09:10 AM
My kids dont know any Satriani's,Vai's or SRV's, but they do know Madonna and High School Musical...... (at least they recognize the name Jimi Hendrix and that Deep Purple wrote Smoke On the Water though... )
Posted by: MirkoSchmidt Jan 1 2010, 01:04 PM
Technique is not so important. Being able to make music that reach people emotionally (be it by being amazed, sad, happy, etc etc) is another thing. You need to make the music that people need to hear at the right moment, looking the way people want you to look right then, and meet the right people who can help you there. Music is different now than the 80's, so guitar shredders won't be world famous in the same way anyhow now
+1
Posted by: Ivan Milenkovic Jan 1 2010, 01:59 PM
Having great guitar technique isn't that much related to being famous. If that was the case, many great players would be famous now. It's the hit songs, putting up a good and memorable show, and knowing the right people that is important. You can play 4 notes at the time and still be famous, if you have all the right stuff mentioned above.
Posted by: Daniel Realpe Jan 1 2010, 07:38 PM
It's been great to read your opinions! you got me thinking!
I think consistancy and perseverance definitely is a factor in the long term.
But I really feel that the visual aspect of it really strikes people. Take even Nirvana. You might say that they are not really that visually striking, but in the context of the 80's fashion, these guys were total outsiders! broke down the mold.
You are welcome in Colombia anytime but I think you can get the really good export "material" (coffee) over there in Europe.
Posted by: Daniel Realpe Jan 2 2010, 04:28 AM
yeah, that's where the funnel really shrinks isn't it?
Posted by: zen Jan 2 2010, 05:29 AM
OK , my views are more generalized on the topic and not really related to the 2 videos or artists being compared and not necessarily confined to guitarists.. but music in general....
What makes a person famous? Being liked by many... by MAJORITY.. The masses that make the majority think as a mob. Individual opinions and behaviors are heavily manipulated by what the majority thinks.. In this hypocritical society, it is often considered 'not cool' to speak out against what the masses like or enjoy.. WHY? Is it becoz you are wrong or your interest in an infamous artist not worth mentioning? Or is it coz of the stigma associated with standing out of the crowd? The MAJORITY that i speak about do not understand the technial aspect of music at all.. They like an artist due to reasons of ...
- Looks/ Image - Image can be good looking or ugly .. both sell (This is well taken care of under marketing of the band) - OMG, she's so hot, Id rather keep looking at her.. i dnt give a @!#$ wht she's singing or playin as long as she can continue to wear skimpy clothes and keep bendin over..
- their need to blend into the society and being accepted by faking or linking what the masses are listening to
- easy 4 chord music containing easy repeatable melodies
- they are looking for something that they can dance to... the MAJORITY love to dance .. this is a need for them that they look for in music
- sexual lyrics (hump this, hump that , hump the world... ) .. Why? Coz it is THE song in the nightclubs that people are shaking their ass to, hence Wow, that artists is so cool .. He makes music that we brainless dumb@#$ can relate to .. ( Ok this is not related to guitarists but i had to stick this in somewhere ,, hahaha )
How do some artists become famous..
- It is not WHAT you know but WHO you know that makes or breaks you after a certain point.
- Marketing, Marketing, Marketing .. (this is where the how to sell the image and the music of the band comes into play amongst other things like knowing the audience, where to market ..etc .. This is where the shittiest band or music can be decorated in gold and presented to the masses as the next best thing ... Supply and demand factors come into play when targeting the audience, decisions like for instance its better to spend more percentage of money in advertising a metal band in europe as compared to remote countries.. where there is more demand and an already existing fanbase.
- Advertising, advertising, advertising .. (Media, internet, interviews, shows, blogs... free samples of music.. globally ..) - This is probably what addresses the 'Global' element of this thread.. Some marketing and advertising managers forget to spare a chunk of cash to markets globally .. They do so coz it is always a risk that they will not get a return on their investment .. But those who take risks can make an artist famous in the remotest areas of the world..
- They don't WAIT TO BE DISCOVERED. !! They do something about it and are shameless about it coz they are hungry..
- Of course TALENT: you may be able to fool the audience in purchasing your 1st CD somehow but eventually, all your skills will play a role including constantly upskilling
- By playing and performing with famous artists - This is a great strategic move that every famous artist knows. If famous bands are friends with someone 'infamous', they let them open for them at gigs etc and make them heard ... (once again, WHO you know factor comes into play here) .. (Also comes in the factor of ... " Oh, oh you know what !! these guyz opened up for XYZ ,, they MUST BE GREAT .. lets buy their album or go see their gig)
BUT.........
The sad thing is that whether you like it or not ... only a small percentage of guitarists will make it huge (therefore the need for day jobs to EAT) and the ones that do will have different stories but also varied talents.... But there are some things that will be common in all of them, no matter how lucky they were in making it big....... HARD WORK .. DETERMINATION .. AND THE WILL TO SUCCEED
p.s - I should really apply for that MBA ..
Posted by: Staffy Jan 2 2010, 09:08 AM
Haha, Yeah, go for it! I very well agree to You in Your analysis here, and I will say that the changes to be famous/rich will be a lot bigger if You are a scientist with a MBA than a lousy guitar player.....
//Staffay
Posted by: Daniel Realpe Jan 2 2010, 04:02 PM
nice input Zen, thank you!
Posted by: Marcus Siepen Jan 27 2010, 04:48 PM
Being technically brilliant doesn't have to do anyhting with being a successful musician (it for sure can be helpful though )
To be able to make it in this business you unfortunately need much more than only skills on your instrument. You need a lot of willpower, you need good songs (!!!), you need a good record company or contacts, you need good tours, you need good marketing, you need luck... you need soo much more than only skills...
Posted by: AdamB Jan 29 2010, 07:19 PM
Well when it comes to most things I guess I generally don't automatically trust anything that is famous or popular. I think super hands from peep show said it best;
"You can't trust people - people like listening to coldplay and voting for the nazi party."
Posted by: Santiago Diaz Garces Jan 30 2010, 09:06 PM
Marketing rules the world. That's why, most of the times, a lot of great players aren't well-known.It will be a lot more sellable a band that has catchy melodies and simple patterns than a guy that wants to give his music a role and do lot of more complex things. Although there's a few exceptions, this, I think, is a applyable for most of the examples.
Posted by: Aleksander Sukovic Jan 31 2010, 01:35 AM
Well to be honest, I do have respect to Vai's work, but musically I personally admire Michael Lee Firkins more. Actually he has influenced on my playing a great deal. It is too sad he hasn't got that famous. But, I consider a great success that he got 'heard' way across the ocean and in Serbia (I know about Firkins from my luthier) Off-course it is all about marketing, it is about aiming for the right target group, and going for the music that people want to hear. One of the best example is in my country. Here we have really good musicians that have to work club gigs, playing songs that are popular, and that by quality can hardly qualify as music, what you will witness yourself by watching at the vid I have posted Please, don't laugh, it is not funny, it is sad. A lot of my friends that are great musicians, are forced to play 'music' like this, so that they can get by.
Posted by: Daniel Realpe Feb 1 2010, 10:22 PM
that's one hilarious video Aleksander...but this guy does a great job too: (lyrics are deep)
Posted by: lcsdds Feb 2 2010, 03:56 AM
Off-course it is all about marketing, it is about aiming for the right target group, and going for the music that people want to hear. One of the best example is in my country. Here we have really good musicians that have to work club gigs, playing songs that are popular, and that by quality can hardly qualify as music, what you will witness yourself by watching at the vid I have posted Please, don't laugh, it is not funny, it is sad. A lot of my friends that are great musicians, are forced to play 'music' like this, so that they can get by.Was that video serious......
Posted by: Santiago Diaz Garces Feb 2 2010, 06:23 AM
Off-course it is all about marketing, it is about aiming for the right target group, and going for the music that people want to hear. One of the best example is in my country. Here we have really good musicians that have to work club gigs, playing songs that are popular, and that by quality can hardly qualify as music, what you will witness yourself by watching at the vid I have posted Please, don't laugh, it is not funny, it is sad. A lot of my friends that are great musicians, are forced to play 'music' like this, so that they can get by.Don't worry. Unfortunatly, it happens everywhere.
Posted by: Aleksander Sukovic Feb 4 2010, 02:38 AM
Man, that's terrible
Yup, it was, pretty much
There are way worse examples out there, trust me That is very comforting
Posted by: Daniel Realpe Feb 4 2010, 05:43 AM
you can expect that music blasted out loud in small towns here in Colombia you get used to it
Posted by: sted Feb 4 2010, 10:41 AM
Its criminal how underrated a lot of players are in the guitar world, years and years of dedication mean squat to the rabid music companies who have no love for the art, only the green.
Its got to the stage now where I cant even listen to the mainstream radio channels anymore, where i cant stomach to even look at a newspaper for fear of some gormless half wit from cowells crap factor getting all teary eyed and hugging his mum because hes good at karaoke, it all makes me physically sick to be honest.
The tide is turning though, the RATM christmas single shows that at least some people have had enough of this garbage and will make ther voices heard through all the rhetoric.
On the subject of guitarists making it big, well, forget it! The quality of the playing is such a small part of the appeal of music to the vast majority that it is just oversampled, overdubbed and overlooked in popular music. Even the biggest rock acts of all time Zep, ACDC, metallica, relied on gigs, tours and album sales to get themselves to where they are, they certainly got no help from any of the powerful media outlets, TV, radio and newspapers.
At the end of the day if everyone was in it for the money the guitar wouldnt exist anymore so I'm happy to play to small crowds who just want to hear rock n roll, the world of the music industry can kiss my big white ass.
Posted by: lcsdds Feb 4 2010, 01:08 PM
Its got to the stage now where I cant even listen to the mainstream radio channels anymore, where i cant stomach to even look at a newspaper for fear of some gormless half wit from cowells crap factor getting all teary eyed and hugging his mum because hes good at karaoke, it all makes me physically sick to be honest.
The tide is turning though, the RATM christmas single shows that at least some people have had enough of this garbage and will make ther voices heard through all the rhetoric.
On the subject of guitarists making it big, well, forget it! The quality of the playing is such a small part of the appeal of music to the vast majority that it is just oversampled, overdubbed and overlooked in popular music. Even the biggest rock acts of all time Zep, ACDC, metallica, relied on gigs, tours and album sales to get themselves to where they are, they certainly got no help from any of the powerful media outlets, TV, radio and newspapers.
At the end of the day if everyone was in it for the money the guitar wouldnt exist anymore so I'm happy to play to small crowds who just want to hear rock n roll, the world of the music industry can kiss my big white ass.
Feel better now Sted???
I totally agree with you......
Posted by: Daniel Realpe Feb 5 2010, 05:18 PM
I agree
Posted by: Keilnoth Feb 5 2010, 08:28 PM
Personally, I don't see any connection between being technically good and musically good.
I agree that everybody can become technically good. But I am not sure everybody can become musically efficient and creative.
Music is emotion and you can shred the neck of your guitar like Flash (and not Slash) you might still be completely unable to create something musical and audible or perhaps only for a few. That means you won't sell any CD or MP3.
But I feel like I am talking to a horde of shredders so I better shut up and run now.
Posted by: coffeeman Feb 5 2010, 11:45 PM
I agree that everybody can become technically good. But I am not sure everybody can become musically efficient and creative.
Music is emotion and you can shred the neck of your guitar like Flash (and not Slash) you might still be completely unable to create something musical and audible or perhaps only for a few. That means you won't sell any CD or MP3.
But I feel like I am talking to a horde of shredders so I better shut up and run now.
I completely agree with you , and thats why it's very important to create music in every stage of the process, don't wait to be a "gutrhrie govan", you can create amazing songs even if you're a beginner.
Posted by: Aleksander Sukovic Feb 6 2010, 02:40 PM
I agree that everybody can become technically good. But I am not sure everybody can become musically efficient and creative.
Music is emotion and you can shred the neck of your guitar like Flash (and not Slash) you might still be completely unable to create something musical and audible or perhaps only for a few. That means you won't sell any CD or MP3.
Couldn't agree more
Posted by: Daniel Realpe Feb 6 2010, 09:24 PM
I agree with you!
even with the little technique some might have, music can be created, and that's the point
although, what would be of Guthrie without the shred....not the same,
or Eric Johnson?
I think being technically profficient plays a big roll when laying down your ideas accurately
Posted by: Muris Varajic Mar 2 2010, 03:37 AM
even with the little technique some might have, music can be created, and that's the point
although, what would be of Guthrie without the shred....not the same,
or Eric Johnson?
I think being technically profficient plays a big roll when laying down your ideas accurately
Yeah, but Govan and Johnson are NOT famous, they ARE within music and guitar communities
but that doesn't count.
ASK people who are not into music and you'll see,
they heard of Satriani, Santana, Clapton, Slash and few more,
those guys can be considered as famous.
And what's common to all of them?
Songs, songs that majority is able to listen without hitting the wall with their heads.
Satch is an exception here for making that happen without lyrics,
kudos to old bold guy.
Posted by: lcsdds Mar 2 2010, 04:26 AM
I agree with Muris. Unless you are a HARDCORE guitar junkie then chances are you haven't heard of Guthrie Govan. It really is all about songs. You have to appeal to the masses to become famous. Kurt Cobain could barely play his guitar compared to what we here on GMC would consider good guitar playing......but.....most people you ask would know who he is. Its all about the songs.......
Posted by: sted Mar 2 2010, 10:21 AM
It always amazes me that the most memorable tunes are usually the simplest too, I mean I love ZZtop and they are pretty famous, but in terms of guitar playing its pretty simple but entirely effective! Look at Jimmy Page, his riffs are woven into my entire mind but again they are usually simple ideas played really well.
Posted by: Daniel Realpe Mar 2 2010, 07:04 PM
but that doesn't count.
ASK people who are not into music and you'll see,
they heard of Satriani, Santana, Clapton, Slash and few more,
those guys can be considered as famous.
And what's common to all of them?
Songs, songs that majority is able to listen without hitting the wall with their heads.
Satch is an exception here for making that happen without lyrics,
kudos to old bold guy.
really good point...
well, Eric Johnson won a grammy in the 90's, again thanks to his songs
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