Printable Version of Topic

Posted by: Pavel Jul 30 2007, 12:31 PM

Hey guys!

This is a question to those who had some experience with this and can give some advice on the following subject:

I want to get myself good studio monitors/speakers for my recording, mixing and stuff related to music production. I am thinking of getting passive monitors and getting a separate amp for them. Do you have any suggestions?

Price range - let's start with 1500$.

Thanks for your help!

Posted by: Tank Jul 30 2007, 01:23 PM

Hiya Pavel,

I was looking down the same route a few months back, but steered away from passive/amp, as it seemed that once you've found speakers you like, there'll be a load of conflicting information as to what amps drive them well, and what your overall sound will be. And of course if you drive the amp too hard, there is a chance that you'll wreck the tweeters etc.

Because I didn't need the hassle, I went down the active route. I've got Dynaudio BM15As. The sound is crystal clear out of them, there seems (to me) to be lots of space between the frequencies. I'd highly recommend them. As far as I know, you can get the BM15's, (pair) for about $1000, so you've got $500 left to select a decent amp

Posted by: Pavel Jul 30 2007, 01:37 PM

So if i get those active monitors i can put 500$ back to my wallet! Cool!
Thanks a lot for quick answer! I'll sure check them out!


EDIT: ok i just visited one of my online shops for those monitors...khm khm...BM15A cost 2000$/1 piece here!!

I guess i'll have to stick to passive+amp idea!

Any ides for an amp?

Posted by: Tank Jul 30 2007, 01:56 PM

Sorry mate, the BM15's are around $1000-$1200 (£500-750) for the passives (In the UK). The BM15A's (actives) I got mine second hand for around £1300, ($2600).

A bit cheaper Mackie do a HR824. They would be active and around $1500 (so all in price). They get some decent reviews.

I'm not sure on amps/passives. Andrew has got a studio too I think, so he may have used separates.

Posted by: Pavel Jul 30 2007, 02:04 PM

Thanks! Those Mackie's are definitely something i can afford! I'll try to find a dealer in Europe! Thanks Tank!

I found a dealer in Croatia and i can get those Mackie's for 1000$. I think i already know what am i going to buy after i pay off my Dean!

Let's also see what Andrew has to suggest!

Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Jul 30 2007, 02:28 PM

Hi Pavel!! I have used diferent monitors in the studios where I've worked and work. Yamaha ns-10 is a standard in studio monitors but I really don't like them. I could say that Alesis MK2 are good and Jbl also has great studio monitors. I have the NEAR 06 (BY ESI PRO) in my studio and they work ok too.

gabriel.-

Posted by: Pavel Jul 30 2007, 03:06 PM

I'm really starting to dislike my country! I contacted a dealer which has Mackie monitors and the price is 1000$/piece! GRRR


Thanks Gabriel! I'll check all those manufacturers to see what i can get here!

Posted by: Tank Jul 30 2007, 03:19 PM

The NS10s do sound horrible, however they are great for dancefloor music. If you can get a mix to sound good on an NS10, it'll sound good on anything. It was also the speaker that gave birth to "Disco Smile" EQing. I was considering NS10s as a secondary monitors with Mackie HR824s before I settled on the dynaudio (and subsequently ran out of budget!)

I agree with Gabriel on the Alesis, (I tried them out while looking for monitors myself), Beringer Truths are another one to check out, around the same performance. I've never seen the NEARs, they don't seem to have much coverage in the UK

Posted by: Pavel Jul 30 2007, 03:53 PM

I saw Behringer monitors yesterday for a VERY GOOD price. But i was not sure if Behringer is a good manufacturer! What do you say?

I was looking at these:

http://www.provox.hr/audio/proizvod.aspx?IDProizvoda=417&myDataListIndex=8&IDProizvodjaca=33&Source=1

Posted by: Slammer Jul 30 2007, 03:54 PM

I don't know much about Monitors,

But I do know a Producer who has his own studio, and he Uses and Highly Recommend to everyone these Monitors.

Event ASP6 Studio Precision 6 Active Studio Monitor

http://www.zzounds.com/item--EVEASP6

here is their website.
http://www.event1.com/index/index.php?page=Products&product=SP8

After doing some research, It does seem to get alot of good reviews and they won an award in 2005 (you can see it on there website).

And for only $900 for the Pair... not to bad price, in fact once I save up I think I might go with them

Anyways hope it helps

Posted by: Pavel Jul 30 2007, 04:50 PM

Thanks Slammer!


Also - Tank, Andrew, Gabriel, Muris and whoever has a studio - what kind of sound card do you use? Do i have to have anything special to connect monitors to my PC? I have Creative X-Fi Fatality soundcard.

Man i am such a noob in gear stuff



Also - what do you say if i pick up a Behringer Mixer for a small home studio? Any thoughts or experiences on Behringer stuff in general?

Posted by: Tank Jul 30 2007, 05:07 PM

I'm using a firewire Tascam FW1884, which acts as an external soundcard and an 8 channel powered fader mixing desk:
http://namm.harmony-central.com/SNAMM03/Content/Tascam/PR/FW-1884-lg.jpg

However it is firewire only, so you'll be stuck unless you are running a Mac or your PC has firewire400 connectivity.

One of the options I was considering were the Motu Ultralite, which gets good reviews.

Posted by: Pavel Jul 30 2007, 05:10 PM

I was thinking about this kind of mixer!

http://www.provox.hr/audio/proizvod.aspx?IDProizvoda=222&myDataListIndex=8&IDProizvodjaca=33&Source=1

It's in my price range and i think i don't need anything fancier!

Posted by: Tank Jul 30 2007, 05:19 PM

That looks like a decent piece of kit. I don't think I'll be using mine for live recordings much either, but the faders are certainly handy for mixing electronica

Posted by: Pavel Jul 30 2007, 06:04 PM

I read some tutorials and stuff about home studio and i decided to get only monitors for start, the mixer can wait.

And now i wonder - what type of connectors do i need to connect monitors to a regular sound card. Monitors OUTPUT is using big connectors, right? So, i will have to use those big-to-small connectors to plug it in my sound-card?

Another EDIT:

I'm bombing with questions today!

This might be a stupid question.....can a mixer be somehow connected to Cubase so i can actually use channels on mixer in relation with tracks in Cubase?

Posted by: tonymiro Jul 30 2007, 07:01 PM

Absolutely right Pavel,
most studio monitors will be balanced XLR with possibly a TRS jack as well (a very small number are digital in). There are a few sound cards that support XLR out for studio monitors usually off a flying lead as an xlr connector is to big physically to comfortably fit on the backplate of the card. Alternately there are a couple of outboard hardware control room multiple monitor switches like the Mackie Big Knob (honest guys that's what it is called ). http://www.mackie.com

Monitor and Cubase - yes, linking a desk to a soundcard and then to cubase is pretty straightforward. However if you want the desk to sync, that is so the faders on the hardware move in sync with the software and vice versa etc., with Cubase the options become a little more limited. I use a http://www.behringer.com/ DDX3216 digital desk and can sync faders fine but not the transport controls. A lot of people report much more success with Yamaha digital desk (and Yamaha now own Cubase) and Tascam digital desks and others. At one point Cubase had a desk specifically for Cubase and Nuendo - the Houston - but it seems to have died a death. The DDX3216 is a lot cheaper then most digital desks - retail at about 400UK Sterling. However Behringer haven't updated the software for ages and seem to be paying little attention to the DDX at the mo. Some people report some hardware issues but I've not had any problems with mine. If I had lots of cash I'd replace the DDX tbh probably with a Yamaha 02v- the DDX is ok but not great.

One thing to think about regarding a hardware desk is how you will get your mix into the soundcard and then on to Cubase. Mine is a digital set up and I lightpipe 32 channels via AD/DA into the pc and back out to the desk as a final stereo mix. This means I'm dealing with digital signals before the pc and so my soundcard has to accept a digital signal. If you want to stay analogue before the signal hits the pc - and indeed some soundcards will only take an analogue feed - then you really need an analogue desk (look at a Mackie - great desks and monitors). You may still be able to sync controls if[/color]your desk will either convert the control data to MMC or Midi.

One other thing - if you do get a desk - I feed my active monitors from the desk rather than the soundcard.

For remote transport control I use a http://www.frontierdesign.com/Products/TranzPort
which also works for Reason, Live and so on. You might want to look at their http://www.frontierdesign.com/Products/AlphaTrack though Pavel.

BTW Pavel Mackie 624 monitors should be in the 1000euro budget if you look around a bit. Also Genelec (1020) do good monitors in that line. Yamaha NS10 are too forward for me and are showing their age IMO - think they've just been superceded by a newer model. If you want 5.1 surround then something like Bluesky should be in that budget.

Cheers,
Tony

Posted by: Pavel Jul 30 2007, 07:16 PM

Thanks a lot for a long post!! As for Mackie monitors - here in Croatia they are way too expensive - the one you mentioned is 600 euro/piece.

You know this won't be a professional studio with high-end equipment but i want to be able to do some decent work on it.

So i have for now stopped on Behringer Truth 2031A monitors - they have very attractive price for me. Also - if i get a mixer - i will sure connect monitors to mixer and than to soundcard.

Mixer - if i get a mixer: what do i need to connect mixer to PC? interfaces, inputs/outputs?? I am total noob in it so i would be really grateful if you could describe it a bit.

I am looking at rear panel of the mixer and it has MAIN OUT Left and Right and MAIN IN Left and Right! I guess, than i need 2 inputs and 2 outputs from my sound card, right? So how do i connect it?

Behringer is the most affordable brand for me and i hope it's enough to start with a small home studio.

Thanks

Posted by: muris Jul 30 2007, 11:41 PM

Pavel,many studios have setup like this,in simple..
Using PC-its HD to record a sounds,then send it to mixing console where you can do really great EQ stuff,add external analog FX(like Lexicon etc) as sends,and then return it all together as one stereo track into PC-HD again.
For this,you need to have some cool AD-DA converters and sound card.
Expensive,yeah, but that's most common case using PC and mixing console together.


Almost to forgot,try Alesis active monitors Mk2,awesome stuff for price

Posted by: Andrew Cockburn Jul 31 2007, 12:06 AM

Late to the party but ...

1. I suggest active monitors - the amps are optimised to the speakers for best results

2. I am planning on spending about $1000 on my next pair of monitors, and I am looking at Adam A7s - Budget model in Adams range but they get very good reviews ...

Oh and I switch between my pod xtl and an EMU1212m as a sound card ...

Posted by: Pavel Jul 31 2007, 12:14 AM

Ok so i guess mixer is not so important at all! All i need is a pair of good monitors!

Here comes a trick question: can there be 2 different sound cards in a PC?

Posted by: Andrew Cockburn Jul 31 2007, 12:17 AM

Hah, got to this one first!

Yes there can, but generally speaking you can't use them both at once to have multiple inputs for example. This is because the ASIO standard does not allow for this. There are potential workarounds, for instance, ASIO4ALL will aggregate your multiple soundcards into one virtual device but I had mixed luck with that so your mileage may vary.

Posted by: muris Jul 31 2007, 12:18 AM

Probably,you should be able to give proper role role to each.
I have 2 E-MU cards,but one is mother and one daughter card,another linking,like sync.

Posted by: Pavel Jul 31 2007, 12:24 AM

I am asking because: i bought a Creative X-Fi soundcard just a couple of months ago, it serves me well, has a front panel so i can easily plug in my guitar from the amp and it records really good sound and all. Now if i buy 2 monitors - i will have problem plugging them into this soundcard. So i thought of getting that EMU1212m soundcard Andrew has and use it for monitors and maybe mixer sometime in the future because for now i guess i will only get monitors.

I don't want to replace my current soundcard as it has lot's of advantages like front panel, remote Entertainment center which is amazing and so on.
But - i really don't know how to connect monitors to it.

Posted by: muris Jul 31 2007, 12:25 AM

So you have one stereo jack out from your sound card,right?

Posted by: Pavel Jul 31 2007, 12:27 AM

Yes! And it's a small jack for those tiny little cables so i don't have LEFT and RIGHT channels to plug the monitors!

Posted by: muris Jul 31 2007, 12:30 AM

I see.
There are called "adapters" from one type of jack to another.
What you need is cable with one small stereo jack at one end,and 2 mono small/big jacks at the other end.
You can find it in almost every store that sells electronic stuff.

Posted by: Pavel Jul 31 2007, 12:32 AM

So you mean i can plug two monitors into 1 output jack using this converter and it will still work as left and right?

I have seen these adapters somewhere so i'll be sure to look for them!

Posted by: muris Jul 31 2007, 12:35 AM

Of course.
As the matter of fact,I'm using the same cable to record from my Korg Pandora,it has one stereo output and I need two mono.

But be careful,some low price cables are doing it wrong way,put all sound in the middle.
Look for Klotz cable or som.

Posted by: Pavel Jul 31 2007, 12:39 AM

Should look like this right?



but should have two of those BIG jacks inputs?


What do you say about Behringer Truth 2031A monitors? Any good?


Btw. can't find Adam dealer in Croatia....

Posted by: muris Jul 31 2007, 12:57 AM

Not really Pavel.
I'm talking of real cable,with one jack at one end and two on another..

Posted by: Pavel Jul 31 2007, 01:00 AM

Oh, ok i got you now!!

Posted by: muris Jul 31 2007, 01:03 AM

Great!
My cable is Klotz brand,try for something in same class,cheep stuff sucks.

Posted by: Pavel Jul 31 2007, 01:08 AM

Ok, i'll see what i can find! Thanks all for your help! I'll get onto buying monitors once i pay off my Dean so i'll sure ask to help me choosing between something - it always sucks when you have to pick 1 out of 10 possible models!

Posted by: muris Jul 31 2007, 01:13 AM

Anytime.
Glad if I helped a bit.

Posted by: tonymiro Jul 31 2007, 02:01 AM

More expensive solution Pavel is a control room monitor box. You can then plug several different sets of monitors in to that and take the feed from your soundcard in to it and choose which combination of speakers you want to use and adjust the levels independently. It is the more expensive way then Muris' solution though.

On a mixing desk btw most would have more than one stereo out. Usually something like a main stereo out and then a couple of secondaries - tape/control room/buss and so on. Useful here (and for the box above) as you can potentially send different mixes/levels etc to the different outs - ie you could send the vocalist a dry, no effects, mix on a headphone out and the drummer a reverb/echoed flanged mix on a different out.

Shame about the cost of the Mackie - have you looked at the Thomann.de internet site? - they are pretty good price wise in Europe and could probably ship to Croatia cheap/free?

Totally agree with Muris about cheap cables. Bad/cheap cabling in a studio is a continual source of problems.

Afraid I can't help on the Behringer Truth monitors. Monitors are pretty subjective and I ain't heard the Truth ones. Mackie I like (though others might not of course...). Don't know if you can do this but if you can get some different ones demoed. Adam a7s that Andrew mentions are supposed to be very good but I think they are a lot more expensive in Europe .

Cheers,
Tony

Posted by: Pavel Jul 31 2007, 09:47 AM

This store is great! They have everything we talked about in this topic!

Adam A7 is 390 euro/piece! It's a good price considering they are good as everybody here says and accordingly to reviews i read yesterday and also - i can't find them any closer so i guess i will try to order them. Well, as i said, it will be in like 3 months or so.

Thanks a lot!

Posted by: Andrew Cockburn Jul 31 2007, 03:45 PM

That sounds like a good price - as I said they are around $500 each in the USA, so that is only a little more expensive.

Now you will get my dream monitors before I do Be sure to post a review when you get them!

By the way, you are making a very wise choice concentrating this amount of money on monitors - they will last you a long time and are the key to doing good sounding mixes (that and a LOT of experience ) I can't mix anything at all worthwhile at the moment as I am using a high end pair of computer speakers due to space issues. When I move I will have soooooo much more space for my dream, studio including amazing monitors, a control surface, and lots of rooms for amps etc

Posted by: Pavel Jul 31 2007, 04:29 PM

Well, i am not buying them yet - as you know - first have to pay off the Dean! But i was thinking that the next thing i buy could be these monitors!

But also - today i ran into Ibanez Thermion amplifier, i did a topic on it (http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_forum/index.php?showtopic=5730)
and now i am in doubts!