Modal Pentatonics Options

[Andrew Cockburn]

Thanks for the explanation!

Btw, sorry for the off topic, but how do you like the Line6 guitars? Those are the modelling guitars right? I have the Line6 GuitarPort Rifftracker USB interface and I love it!

I have the Variax 700 and it is awesome! Incredible range of tones, and plays really well - best guitar I have played, nicer than my Strat.

To be totally objective, there are a couple of things it doesn't quite manage - palm muting is harder than with a regular guitar, so if you play a lot of metal you should try one before you buy - also there is no locking tremelo option, and if you go too far with the whammy bar in slackening off the strings, eventually the strings lose contact with the piezo pickups which are actually in the bridge saddle and you lose the sound until you lift the bar up again.

For that reason I would say if you are a metal or shred fan, check you can live with those limitations, otherwise, you are buying 20 guitars for the price of on, and it really does work that way.

I would use the acoustic models live but not for recording - and you just gotta love the sitar even if you never use it for anything

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This post has been edited by Andrew Cockburn: Apr 24 2007, 09:22 PM

[redwing]

I learned the diatonic modes before the pentatonic modes. Maybe not the way recommended to do it, but; I might have done myself a favor in the long run. The diatonic scale has 3 major modes (Ionian and Lydian and Mixolydian), and 4 minor modes, (Aeolian, Dorian, Phyrigian, and Locrian). What differentiates a minor mode from a major mode is that the third degree (third note in the mode) is only three frets (semitones or half-steps, same thing) above the 1st (Tonic) note of that particular mode--- whereas a Major mode has four frets, (semitones, or half-steps, same thing) above the tonic to the third degree, ( third note in the mode). When it comes to pentatonic " matching" , first of all, Forget the Locrian Mode. That seems to be a black sheep here for various reasons. Now, in a nut shell, would it be safe to say that you can substitute a Pentatonic Minor scale for the Aoelian, Dorian, and Phyrigian diatonic modes, using the same tonic or starting note, whereever they appear in the present key in which you are playing? Also, if playing in one of these diatonic minor modes (NO LOCRIAN), you can play a Pentatonic Minor in any of the other minor mode positions ON TOP of any of the other three Minor modes? As an example, Key of C---D (2nd)=Dorian, E (3rd)=Phyrigian, and A (6th)=Aoelian. If I'm playing in A Minor Aoelian, I can mix an A Pentatonic minor, a D Pentatonic minor, or an E pentatonic minor right on top, and vice-versa while playing in any one of these three Diatonic Minor modes? I guess the Pentatonic Major Belongs on top of the Ionian, Lydian, and Mixolydian modes. I really tried to keep this short and simple, but I know how complicated it must sound. That's the thing I've discovered about music theory---it's so easy, that it's hard, if that makes any sense!! Good luck, all.

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[Andrew Cockburn]

Now, in a nut shell, would it be safe to say that you can substitute a Pentatonic Minor scale for the Aoelian, Dorian, and Phyrigian diatonic modes, using the same tonic or starting note, whereever they appear in the present key in which you are playing?

Yes absolutely - Dorian, Phrygian and Aeolian all share the same Root, 3rd 4th, 4th and 7th, which are equivalent to pentatonic minors Root, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, e.g. the notes are all identical, so you can play Minor pentatonic with the same root note over any of these scales.

Also, if playing in one of these diatonic minor modes (NO LOCRIAN), you can play a Pentatonic Minor in any of the other minor mode positions ON TOP of any of the other three Minor modes? As an example, Key of C---D (2nd)=Dorian, E (3rd)=Phyrigian, and A (6th)=Aoelian. If I'm playing in A Minor Aoelian, I can mix an A Pentatonic minor, a D Pentatonic minor, or an E pentatonic minor right on top, and vice-versa while playing in any one of these three Diatonic Minor modes?

Yes, using the same logic above, if I understand what you are saying, any time you have a D dorian scale you can play D minor pentatonic instead, E Phrgian works with E minor pentatonic, A Aeolian worlks with A minor pentatonic.

I guess the Pentatonic Major Belongs on top of the Ionian, Lydian, and Mixolydian modes. I really tried to keep this short and simple, but I know how complicated it must sound. That's the thing I've discovered about music theory---it's so easy, that it's hard, if that makes any sense!! Good luck, all.

Likewise, yes,

Major pentatonic works over Ionianm Lydian and Mixolydian.

Now having said the above, that isn't really what Modal pentatonics is about - you have described a set of rules for substitution of Minor and Major pentatonics over various modes, but that technique isn't particularly modal in its own right. In modal pentatonics we take it a step further than Pentatonic Substitution and start playing from a choice of 3 different minor pentatonic scales over the top of a given parent scale, which is where the modal bit comes in.

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This post has been edited by Andrew Cockburn: Jul 10 2007, 02:23 PM

[enforcer]

Andrew I dont want to be a smart ass but I think there is an error in the following paragraph:

Modal Pentatonics Through Chords

Lets look at it another way, by analysis of the chord families for the minor pentatonic and the major modes. Before you look at this, it is worth reading my lesson on chords for scales, here.

First, playing a minor pentatonic, a good fit for the notes would be the Minor 7th chord. The formula for a m7 chord is I,bIII,V,b7. Checking back to the notes in the scale above we see that all of the notes in a m7 chord are present in the pentatonic scale.

In the same way we can figure out characteristic chords for all of the modes as follows. I'll add the pentatonic in for comparison, and pick out the notes from the scale that are used to make up the chords.

Reduced: 68% of original size [ 667 x 256 ] - Click to view full image

So we can see that the major modes split into 4 different chord families:

Reduced: 69% of original size [ 666 x 178 ] - Click to view full image

Since the pentatonic has a characteristic minor 7th chord, that tells us straight away that we can play pentatonic with Dorian, Phrygian and Aeolian, and that other modes will conflict with one or more notes in the pentatonic scale.

It cant be Locrian as 5th in Minor Pentatonics conflicts with diminished 5th...

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[Andrew Cockburn]

Andrew I dont want to be a smart ass but I think there is an error in the following paragraph:



It cant be Locrian as 5th in Minor Pentatonics conflicts with diminished 5th...

?? A little confused here - you highlighted Aeolian but said it couldn't be Locrian ....

I agree it couldn't be locrian, but I didn't say it was

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