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Posted by: Palacios Feb 10 2014, 03:55 AM

Hi classmates,
I'm from California; so this isn't even an issue. I got a $50 ticket the other day for smoking a cigarette outside. Yep; that's against the law here. On the other hand if you smoke weed here; it's not even a fine. thank you Govenor Arnold Swarzenegger. Believe me; just walk around San Francisco, and you smell it everywhere. In fact for $100; you can legally grow, sell, and use it here. Europeans this is only ok in certain states; don't try this in the Bible belt, or you'll get locked up. I was in Europe for three month last Summer, and I noticed Spain has similar laws as California. In fact while in San Sebastian and Barcelona; I noticed they have pot shops all over the place. They didn't have any problem smoking it in public, and it was the only way they would talk to an American. lol. Italy and France were similar, but I don't know if it is legal there. So is it really such a horrible thing that we need to lock people up in the US, and turn them into hardened criminals?

Posted by: Hajduk Feb 10 2014, 04:17 AM

I don't personally care for Pot( marijuana) but here in Canada, especially Vancouver, BC, we are known for our Skunk weed as they call it and yeah if you have under 15 grams its a slap on the wrist, they throw it out on you.

Posted by: Mertay Feb 10 2014, 07:00 AM

Never liked it personally, funny I never spent money on it either as always someone offered

The thing thats argued I believe is there is a strong possibility it leads to harder, chemical drugs. To be honest pretty much everybody I know who smoked regularly proved this

Posted by: SpaseMoonkey Feb 10 2014, 07:48 AM

I don't care what drugs people do as long as it doesn't effect me. Do it in your own home on your time and we are cool. Because to me if drugs are banned I think that drinking alcohol should be as well. In my area its an old steel mill town, so all you have is drunks.

But if they did legalize weed, it would be nice if they gave the revenue to schools and gave the kids a better education.

Posted by: Monica Gheorghevici Feb 10 2014, 08:24 AM

I don't care if it's legal or not. In my country even if it's not legal you can find to buy everywhere. But IMHO would not be a good idea for teenagers because they don't have limit and make some abuses.
I never understand where is the pleasure to smoke weed. I don't need some boost to feel good.
I'm a very funny person and I always laugh, so I guess I'm "high" every day without some chemical stuff to make that mood
But I must recognize that I tried once (because I'm a person most curios than a cat) but the effect wasn't what I believed. Just I laughed without reason like a stupid for 30 minutes So....not a "wow" mood

Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Feb 10 2014, 08:40 AM

I think that as everything that is big 'NO NO' the more of a 'NO NO' you make it, the more tempting it will be to do that particular thing. It's in our nature to want to 'break the law'. I cannot pronounce myself in respect to the idea of legalizing or not, simply because I haven't yet found a particular balance between the pluses and the minuses involved. It's an open discussion.

Posted by: bleez Feb 10 2014, 09:32 AM

Yes it probably should be legal.

Posted by: Headbanger Feb 10 2014, 09:46 AM

Legalize it !!!

Posted by: Palacios Feb 10 2014, 09:46 AM

I think so to. The US locks up almost half our population by the age of 26. I don't think we need to be spending any more money than we have to. Why spend it on locking them up for something they're probably gonna grow out of.

Posted by: MonkeyDAthos Feb 10 2014, 10:02 AM

To be honest, meh i don't really care.

Even though like 90% of my friends do it, i have never felt the need to try it, besides ..i really can't take the smell. it makes me nauseous.

Posted by: Ben Higgins Feb 10 2014, 11:29 AM

I'm with you on this. People are going to do what they are going to do.

Good point about the alcohol.. this is abused as much, if not more than, anything else. Because it's socially acceptable it's considered the norm to drink every day after work. It dulls the pain of everyday existence for the working man. You can't blame anybody for getting that way.. life is tough.. but if that's as acceptable for the everyman to spend his evenings in a semi drunken haze then you just as well say it's ok to shoot up ?

About the weed, it doesn't affect me as I don't do it.. but I do think the medical properties of the marijuana plant should be explored and utilised legally without constraint by the governments.

Posted by: Mertay Feb 10 2014, 02:44 PM

Actually keeping it illegal is more profiting for whoever sells it and what if I told you CIA controls the trafficing in USA?

Posted by: Palacios Feb 10 2014, 04:55 PM

The problem is: The drug cartels, prisons, police, terrorists, and politicians make more money for it being illegal. I'm surprised nobody is upset about me paying a $50 fine for smoking a cigarette outside. When I visit Europe; I feel so wrong smoking cigarettes at a cafe. lol.

Posted by: klasaine Feb 10 2014, 05:02 PM

Slow down. Time for some facts ...

1) The prison population in the states, while very high compared to most other countries, is just under 3 million. Our current population in the states is hovering at 350,000,000 persons.

2) In CA a med. marijuana card costs - per year - between $60 and $150 depending on the county. A renewal is between $40 and $100. *That doesn't count the cost of the doctor visit/perscription to get your first card.

Posted by: tflava Feb 10 2014, 05:06 PM

I think its a problem everywhere.

I live in holland we can legally buy weed and smoke it in the coffeeshops.

We cant smoke it on the street because then you have to pay 140 euro.

The weir thing by us is that is not legal for coffeeshops to buy the weed. But its legal to sell the weed.

So they know that the coffeeshops buy the weed illigal but they don,t make an problem of it.

But for me its not a big deal.

I maybe smoke hasjies once in a week and it didnt controll my life but everyone has his own vision.




GRtzz

Posted by: gregc1 Feb 10 2014, 05:41 PM

That stat made me do a double take too.

It's not legal to buy/sell/smoke in any way here in Florida but I personally don't have a problem with legalization. If hard liquor is considered perfectly legal I just can't justify why weed shouldn't be.

Posted by: Palacios Feb 10 2014, 05:50 PM

My statistic isn't about the current prison population; which you are right is very high; it's people who will be in jail at some point in their lives. I unfortunately wouldn't need to get a card if i wanted to get high; my neighbors smoke that stuff so much all I need to do is open my window.lol. My neighbor told me he paid $100, and he got a pot card. I'm not condemning marijuana. Hell; I'd probably smoke it if my job didn't randomly test us. I'm guessing it's similar to Southern CA.

Posted by: klasaine Feb 10 2014, 06:10 PM

Half of all the population of the USA does not go to jail at 'some point in their life'.
And of course no one needs a card to get high. If you don't do it in the middle of the street in broad daylight and you're over 21 no one, including the cops, gives a damn anymore - which is how it should be.

Posted by: wrk Feb 10 2014, 06:11 PM

Interesting, i didn’t know that .. that is indeed weird

How is the distribution organised in holland, from where comes all that weed?

Posted by: Palacios Feb 10 2014, 06:19 PM

It shocked me to friend. I'm unfortunately not making it up. Check out this ABC News link.
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/arrests-increasing-us-youth/story?id=15180222

Posted by: klasaine Feb 10 2014, 06:42 PM

It says up to 41% (up from 23%) will have 'run ins with the law' ... which can mean loitering, TPing a house, running away from home, under age drinking/smoking in the park, cutting school (truancy), fighting outside of school, etc. Arrested, (if you ask a kid - which is what they did), just means taken in to custody. You can be released 3 hours later to your parents or legal guardian.
Seeing that it's commercial news I feel that's all pretty sensationalized. Plus, they asked kids, "have you ever been arrested?" When I was a kid it was cool to say 'yes' ... even if that only meant it was for truancy or really minor shoplifting at the convenience store.

I was taken to the police station more than once when I was in my late teens. I would never label it as 'incarcerated' ... because they let me go (in my parents custody) within a few hours. I think that's pretty normal actually.

Posted by: liveOASISforever Feb 10 2014, 08:28 PM

Well I think it should be legalised considering alcohol is legal. I never hear of anyone going out assaulting someone or causing criminal damage after smoking a joint. Whereas alcohol is the biggest cause of fighting, vandalism, murders, smashed bottles in children's play parks and health issues resulting in the national health service time mostly taking up through alcohol related incidents

In Britain there are lots of people that go out binge drinking every weekend. I also used to do it but have gave that up.The amount of my friends that I talk to that have being out the night before and cannot remember a thing because they have being drinking solid for 10 hours the night before.


Alcohol makes changes peoples personality and in most cases for the worst.Whereas cannabis in my eyes certainly doesn't.It also has its medical uses as well.

Posted by: Headbanger Feb 10 2014, 11:04 PM

I totally agree....alcohol could lead to aggression and often does with some people..Nothing wrong with a drink though, same as marijuana, if you don't abuse it. I think, from experience, the same people who sell grass sell everything else...and for the weak minded, they may be tempted to try other stronger things and get hooked...having said that, we are all different and I don't think there is a 'typical' result. I think the legalisation of Marijuana, would offer more control and stop more possibilities of people being exposed to the harder drugs...also on offer from the street dealer....ummm what was this post about again?

Posted by: Todd Simpson Feb 10 2014, 11:11 PM

YES:


It should be and it will be soon enough it's a slow process but it's inevitable for a variety of reasons. To be clear I"M NOT A FAN PERSONALLY of the substance but that's beside the point. I don't drink either and I'm opposed to Alcohol prohibition as well

The fact is that the time has come to get rid of "Prohibition" and adopt a European model that views "drugs" as a health issue, not a crime issue. Being a bit of a Libertarian, I'm against the govt telling you what you can't ingest in your free time. It's not that I want to ingest, I feel strongly that such a decision (under life, liberty, pursuit of happiness) is simply none of the govt's biz and should be up to folks to do as they choose.

Sadly, the "South" will be dead last to change the laws on this along with marriage equality. After all, I'm from the region that went to war to defend the subjugation of the rights of certain folks. As I mentioned previously, my Southern brethren can be a bit too fond of tradition at times.

Todd

Posted by: bleez Feb 10 2014, 11:14 PM

I think the original question was.... on a scale of 1-10 what is your favourite colour of the alphabet?

also.... do my eyes look red

Posted by: SpaseMoonkey Feb 10 2014, 11:22 PM

I'll take a number 7, can I get that with a coke?

Posted by: Headbanger Feb 10 2014, 11:23 PM

I'll go with A

On a more serious matter:

This post has reminded me a bit of Ali G and his drug sketch with the drug squad....
'My mate Dave who smokes...but of course I never touch the stuff!'

Posted by: metalheadlady Feb 10 2014, 11:36 PM

I don't really intend to smoke it ever, but I think it should be legal. As it has similar laws to drinking or smoking cigarettes, I just don't see a big issue. Then again, the town I live in is full of potheads. Oh well.

Posted by: Palacios Feb 10 2014, 11:51 PM

Ha Ha. Yep; your part of the statistic. I unfortunately am to. I spend the night in the jailhouse drunk tank when I was in my early 20's. I'm actually kind of glad I did, because it made me stop doing stupid shit.

Posted by: Azzaboi Feb 11 2014, 01:45 AM

You come up with some crazy topics...

Well as a kid, yes I have tried and smoked it with friends. I would honestly say while it's not good for you at all, it's nothing worst that say alcohol or smoking cigarettes. The only reason for it to be illegal is the government can't make a profit off it - as people can grow it naturally. Stupid NZ attempted to make synthetic cannabinoids legal here for a while, and that ended up being more of a killer.

Now saying that, the main issue with it is people smoke weed with no filter and hold it in the lungs for as long as possible to get the THC hit. Comparing this to normal smoking, the smoke is thicker and unfiltered. This is the same deal to anyone who doesn't smoke and gets 2nd hand from cigarettes - they are actually affected more. It's a real lung killer and will stunt a bit of growth/development. THC follows the bloodstream to fat cells (got the munches?) where it can be stored for over 6 months, depending on how much you exercise/sweat. This is why you don't get addicted, your body builds it's own personal supply over time. The issue with this is it can tend to make you lazy and just chill through life without putting as much effort into actual working requiring a lot of brain power or even being bother to fight someone, etc. You wave it off if it's too much effort, over enjoy eating saturated foods and sleep longer hours. Sure it could stop wars, but at what cost?

Smoking it is probably not the best way of taking it either, but it use to be used for many medical reasons, such as eating/sleeping/depression/relaxing disorders, etc. Some also consider it can cure cancer. How young is too young however...

This is questionable, but interesting:


As for anything really, I believe it depends on how you use or abuse it.

Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Feb 11 2014, 08:25 AM

I think that Ben hit a very interesting topic here - health research. Nature provides us with everything we need to stay fit and healthy, but we devastate it and there's one more thing - the pharma companies will most probably stop at nothing to hide the true remedies for illnesses such as cancer or AIDS, which I am sure that are hidden in some plant found somewhere in nature. Mayhaps, weed can cure some 'incurable' diseases if used right - but until that moment in which truth will be revealed, we will have to see it as a past time activity.

Posted by: Ben Higgins Feb 11 2014, 10:10 AM

Yes. First and foremost abuse of any substance is primarily a psychological health issue. Not in that people are 'crazy' but in that it's psychological issues that cause people to use these things as a crutch. I guarantee you if the quality of people's lives were better there would be less need to 'escape' from everyday reality.

Of course, addiction and abuse can accidentally catch up with anyone over time who is a casual user but generally speaking, it's an issue that needs to be dealt with in the head first.

Posted by: Taka Perry Feb 11 2014, 11:15 AM

The fact that is illegal contributes to the reason people want it so much. If they make it legal under strict guidelines, I think it will be beneficial to people who smoke it and general people. Not that I really care

Posted by: tflava Feb 11 2014, 10:38 PM

Yeah its a weird thing. We call it "het gedoogbeleid" .

But the weed comes from illegal dealers. So they know they get it illegal but sell it legal.

But if they catch you when you're growing weed you get into jail.

Posted by: Todd Simpson Feb 12 2014, 06:33 AM

Well said I"m glad to see that in many states here, decriminalization of Marijuana is proceeding at pace as well as decriminalization of of other things such as same sex relationships (yup, being gay is a crime on the books here in many states) and of course, Gambling.

I wish I could say it's an evolution of public awareness but in many cases it's just being driven by States needs for new tax revenue since the crash/recession.

For example, in California (which was going broke very quickly with several municipalities actually filing for Bankruptcy protection) the revenue generated from legal pot sales has helped stabilize the economy.

In Georgia the Lottery (yup, it's a form of gambling) helps pay for higher education which used to rely on property taxes (after the housing collapse, state budgets took a HUGE hit) for most of their funding.

Lastly, the Congressional Budget Office recently released a 10 year study confirming that allowing same sex marriage would contribute millions in tax revenue over the next several years to the overall economy. Here is the link to that info which I thought was pretty interesting. Who knew?

http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/cbofiles/ftpdocs/55xx/doc5559/06-21-samesexmarriage.pdf

Needless to say I think folks should be able to do as they like in their private lives on their own time without having to risk incarceration. Ahh liberty 200 years in and we are finally starting to get the hang of it.

If we could work out equal pay for Men and Women (Gals earn about 3/4 of what men do for the same work here on average) and a few other details, we might have something!!

Todd

Posted by: Palacios Feb 12 2014, 07:50 AM

Holy Moses. Mary Jane is a pretty popular subject. I found this youtube clip that reminded me of some friends from Louisiana that came to one of our monthly Texas Hold'em games. We were passing a bong around. They got so stoned they literally passed out on the table. Like one guy had his face on the table, and the other was snoring on my couch. Later on they told me that the weed in CA is obscene. They were right. The people around here don't grow normal weed anymore. When I was in college it was fun because it didn't put you in a coma like the stuff they have now.

Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Feb 12 2014, 08:18 AM

Man, Holland has A LOT of weird stuff... My cousin is dutch and he worked in the police force for a couple of years.. The things he told me about... For instance, they - as policemen - aren't allowed to fire a gun even in a life threatening situation and he was facing that more than 2-3 times. Why the hell are they carrying them then?

Posted by: Headbanger Feb 12 2014, 02:25 PM

I think its worth mentioning, particularly to the younger members of GMC, that I personally don't smoke marijuana (anymore), and I wouldn't want anyone to think it was a good idea...When I did smoke, I did have a lot of problems learning and remembering chords and notes on the guitar. It damages creativity rather than enhancing it. If learning guitar is your thing and I imagine it is if your'e reading this, then don't do it. Yes, Hendrix did it, but marijuana use won't make you into Jimi. This is a link I found on the net that might be worth reading:

http://www.nevdgp.org.au/info/std_misc/MarijuanaQuit.html

I do however think it should be legalized for the reasons, I stated earlier in this thread...and particularly for medical use....the world should also be free enough for people to do what THEY want and find out through experimenting if they must what's good and what's not.

Since I stopped, a few years back, my memory returned to almost normal and I'm a lot happier with the World.

Posted by: klasaine Feb 12 2014, 02:58 PM

Finance and profit are generally (always?) the driver of change. Never moral integrity or fairness. Is it any wonder that the first things to turn a profit online was gambling and pornography?

*One small point ... though legal weed production and sales has generated some profit for CA it's mostly rising home prices, recent home sales/homeownership and the associated new prop taxes that has generated our recently found fiscal surplus (now if we can just find some friggin water). Also, another tech boom in and around silicon Valley as well as a popular governor who knows how to work with the legislators. We still have a lot of bonds (debt) to pay down but our budget is in surplus.

Posted by: Todd Simpson Feb 13 2014, 07:54 AM

Well said Same goes for and SAME GOES FOR BOOZE. I don't drink booze and after seeing what booze has done to various members of my family line, I"m an advocate for staying away from that too. I don't think there should be any laws preventing folks from drinking, but as an example and a suggestion, I don't. I found it really interfered with my ability to absorb information, learn new scales, practice effectively etc. Also, I'm prone to "over do" things so it's probably a good idea I stay away from most things that go bad in large doses

[Wequote name='Headbanger' date='Feb 12 2014, 08:25 AM' post='674641']
I think its worth mentioning, particularly to the younger members of GMC, that I personally don't smoke marijuana (anymore), and I wouldn't want anyone to think it was a good idea...When I did smoke, I did have a lot of problems learning and remembering chords and notes on the guitar. It damages creativity rather than enhancing it. If learning guitar is your thing and I imagine it is if your'e reading this, then don't do it. Yes, Hendrix did it, but marijuana use won't make you into Jimi. This is a link I found on the net that might be worth reading:

http://www.nevdgp.org.au/info/std_misc/MarijuanaQuit.html

I do however think it should be legalized for the reasons, I stated earlier in this thread...and particularly for medical use....the world should also be free enough for people to do what THEY want and find out through experimenting if they must what's good and what's not.

Since I stopped, a few years back, my memory returned to almost normal and I'm a lot happier with the World.
[/quote]

Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Feb 13 2014, 08:31 AM

One thing that I know is that NOTHING is bad, AS LONG as you are able to be the one in control. Alcohol is not bad - I am a wine drinker for instance and my mom and dad raised me in such a way that I can appreciate a fine drink but never over do it. A glass of red wine and a fine book, or a glass with a fine dinner, is nothing short of pure bliss - and guess what, it doesn't turn you into a raging alcoholic that wakes up in a gutter in the morning.

It is very tough for the most of us to resist urges that end up with abuse, but as long as you are conscious and master over your self, nothing can bring you down. As I said, tough to live up to these words, but frankly, if you manage to do it, you will live a happy and fulfilling life. The outcome of things is ENTIRELY up to you.

Posted by: Todd Simpson Feb 19 2014, 10:58 PM

Well said I"ve always admired that about many cultures/countries raise children from a young age to appropriately appreciate things like wine. In the states this is not common. It happens, just not common. Here, young people are largely forbidden to touch booze until 21. Of course they get in to it early, and since there is no parental oversight, often times it goes bad and usually ends up causing issues.

Balance is truly the key as you mentioned Just a hard thing to achieve. I do agree with you that it's well worth striving for

Posted by: Ulrik Feb 19 2014, 11:40 PM

When it comes to drinking it is ok that young people get introduced to alcohol, but I think we have a culture many places in Europe especially in Denmark where you almost can not get together without drinking.
I was a part of this as a teenager and university student, that was just how people would socialize.

Now I haven't been drinking alcohol for more than 5 years, and it was really hard for some of my friends to accept until I told them we couldn't hang out anymore unless they'd accept it.

If you stop smoking, people will congratulate you.
If you stop drinking, people will ask you if you are sick. It irritates me.



Smoking weed? No it has so many bad side effects for a lot of people so I'm not for legalization if we have a good police force to stop the criminal trades.

Posted by: jstcrsn Feb 20 2014, 12:21 AM

This is what needs to happen.California has to build a desalination plant ,Now every state that uses water out of the colorado river (that side of the divide)has to help in the cost . Because once Cali is using that water , every state will benefit and Lake Mead will fill back up and there will never be another water problem

Posted by: Palacios Feb 20 2014, 02:25 AM

Desalinization actually seems like a good idea. I'm not sure if it's a long term solution due to the corrosive effects of Salt Water. Better conservation of water would help.(especially farming)

Posted by: jstcrsn Feb 20 2014, 04:01 AM

many Arab nations have been doing it for years, the salt is taken out , so nothing gets corroded after the process

Posted by: Palacios Feb 20 2014, 06:19 AM

Honestly Northern California is pretty self sufficient with water. I defiantly think the South should consider it. It would probably cost everyone more for their water, but it would encourage water conservation.

Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Feb 20 2014, 07:39 AM

It's a bit weird sometimes - for the others I mean - but I couldn't care less for what they think Indeed, I don't drink before training or so, or sometimes if it's too late in the evening, I'd rather have a tea instead, because I want to get a good rest during the night.





Kids should be raised by EXAMPLE not by theory They are like little monkeys - they do what they see around them not what they are told. That much I have figured out so far, but I am pretty darn scared of the day I will have to raise my own

Posted by: klasaine Feb 20 2014, 09:11 AM

You're a thoughtful and methodical guy. You'll do fine. Talk to them a lot. Engage them. They like that.

Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Feb 20 2014, 10:53 AM

Thanks Ken, I guess I'll just see when I get there

Posted by: jstcrsn Feb 20 2014, 03:52 PM

this is probably the best rule of parenting
You teach your kids not to drink and you drink , guess what , your kids will drink
and this is true with just about everything, and before some get bent out of shape, it's child rearing , nothing 100 percent , people still have to make there own decisions (good or bad), but if we practice what we preach , it goes a long way with credibility for our kids

Posted by: Dieterle Feb 20 2014, 06:33 PM

Thats how it is used LEGAL in Deutschland !

This is the Link in English language


http://www.hemp-wholesale.com



its not my company just to give ya some IDEA !

Dieter

Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Feb 20 2014, 09:45 PM

The truth is, that when you look on things in the REAL perspective - you have to be a saint to raise your tyke as an oak. Heavy burden this one of parenthood... But alas All things in due time

Posted by: jstcrsn Feb 20 2014, 10:06 PM

Also , kids need to see parents fail, I do it often, but when they see how I handle it ,much good can come of it, of course if I handle it Bad, well, you know

Posted by: klasaine Feb 20 2014, 10:29 PM

You also get to 'learn' parenting in real time.
You don't need to know it all the day they're born.

Posted by: Todd Simpson Feb 21 2014, 07:01 AM

Sadly you can't stop the Marijuana trade as our failed "War on Drugs" has showed us. So that's sorta hopeless. As far as "side effects", there are side effects to Alcohol and yet we managed to make that legal But to each his own.

Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Feb 21 2014, 09:23 AM

True words As I said, momentarily I don't even have someone to make a kid with, so I'll just see to my other things

Posted by: jstcrsn Feb 21 2014, 01:29 PM

I thought, surely Wolverine would have sweet talked that brunette in your video

why stop with Marijuana
as most libertarians want all drugs legalized

plus we are breaking Treaty's with neighboring countries and their war on drugs,puts them in a bind , doesn't it
like it or not , no President like Barack (who swore to uphold the constitution and our Laws)has done more picking and choosing of which laws "HE" would and would not uphold
now if the law changes thats fine,but until then, do your job

Posted by: Todd Simpson Feb 22 2014, 03:13 AM

CRSN: That was my point exactly "Why stop with Marijuanna.." making things like marijuanna illegal is as wrong headed and ineffective as Alcohol Prohibition was waaay back when. We managed to get over that but even though hard booze is more dangerous/toxic on the body than street heroin, we keep selling booze without a second thought. It's far beyond time we started looking at the entire thing as a health issue, not a criminal issue. IMHO

Posted by: Palacios Feb 22 2014, 05:43 AM

I agree. In fact I'd go even further and legalize all drugs, and combat them with rehab. All illegalizing drugs does is fund terrorism, create a huge burden of our prison system, create police records on people preventing them from getting jobs that would force them to quit. The problem is that too much money is made, and burocracies allocated money; for them to be legal. Thats just my opinion though.

Posted by: Todd Simpson Feb 22 2014, 07:29 AM

Well said! Basic supply and demand at work creates a HUGE black market and sprawling tax vacuums like the DEA. You are spot on when you say such organizations are almost "too big to fail". Govt organizations only want two things.

1.)Survive (til the next budget cycle)
2.)Grow (to get more budget next cycle).

and the DEA has grown like a "weed" as it were and become a nearly paramilitary wing of the govt. Really should be dismantled. Time will tell if we have the wisdom to vote this in to being.
Todd

Posted by: AK Rich Feb 22 2014, 08:04 AM

This is only half true at best since heroin is far more TOXIC to the body than alcohol and has a higher dependency rating. Heroin ,Crack Cocaine Nicotine, Methadone and Crystal Meth all have a higher dependency than Alcohol. And the only reason alcohol is deemed more DANGEROUS is because of the societal impact.(Heroin is more dangerous to the individual) And since alcohol is legal most everywhere and heroin is not, of course it is seen as more dangerous by some. There are far more people using alcohol. If heroin was as easily accessible as alcohol and half as many people used heroin there would be no contest. Heroin would take the most dangerous title hands down. Have you ever known someone who was hooked on heroin? It is far more ugly than alcohol dependency and much harder to kick.
Oh , And yes, legalize marijuana, especially hemp production.

PS: Although I support the legalization of marijuana, I am highly against legalizing much harder drugs like the ones I have mentioned.
Think about it. Did the legalization of alcohol result in less people using and abusing it? I think we all know the answer to that is no.
If the use of all drugs becomes legal and accepted then you will most certainly have more use and abuse, creating far more harm than good.
Alcoholism is treated as a sickness, has it helped curb alcohol abuse or in any way make alcohol less attractive to young people or anyone for that matter? How would legalizing hard drugs be any different?

Again, the more it becomes accepted the more it will be used and abused.How would making hard drugs easier to get help anything?
Alcohol is one thing, but hard drugs are a different beast. And with them self control is much harder to exert because of the nature of them.
Don't we already somewhat treat drug addiction as an illness? Part of the penalties for using hard drugs most often include rehab do they not? Keeping those drugs illegal is a far better deterrent than decriminalization. And thinking that making them legal would somehow reduce the problem is just whistling through the graveyard the way I see it. It is like throwing your hands in the air and saying whatever, do what you want , we don't care anymore. It defies logic and common sense. How would treating drug addiction as an illness only, and have rehab address the problem reduce the cost to society any less than prisons combined with rehab if the number of people that become addicted greatly increases because it is accepted and legal? I would wager that even if the numbers of those addicted and sent to rehab rather than prison remain the same that it would still cost taxpayers more.

Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Feb 22 2014, 08:38 AM

Haha Todd - she's taken, man And from what I know she loves her boyfriend very much

Posted by: jstcrsn Feb 24 2014, 12:42 AM

the information saying it would be cost effective to make everything legal and just rehabilitate does not take into account an increase in the amount to be treated.
Being hooked on the hard drugs is ugly, people kill their fathers , mothers brothers and sisters for money for their next fix.
any one that thinks that legalizing everything would work out, needs to go spend sometime helping just one junky get clean.
Take it from one that was hooked one meth,you don't want to wish that on your enemy let alone your countryman in the name of liberty

and I am glad that we talked about parenting and their kids following the lead of their parents. The problem is when kids do not have an example to follow , and we all know that is a big problem here in America, they tend to look towards society for their moral compass. and monkey see monkey do. If society tells them it is all right and no one tells them otherwise , you guessed it, they do it.

Posted by: Todd Simpson Feb 24 2014, 02:35 AM

Some fine back and forth per usual I stopped short saying I support legalization. I support subsidization much like is done in England. Heroin addicts are given their drugs/needles through a pharmacy which greatly reduces crime and other issues associated with the current prohibition. You can compare the numbers directly between Britain and the united states and the results black and white. Less crime, less abuse per capita, less use overall, etc. it's just a better system and I"d vote for it But that's what votes are for right? I get that RICH and CRSN would vote the other way But that's politics right?

Here is a link to a paper about a study showing how minimal the impacts of transferring heroin addicts to state assistance/subsidy.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16627300

Posted by: Palacios Feb 24 2014, 04:45 AM

The worst thing about drugs isn't the drugs; it's the people dealing the drugs. Drug addicts are usually pretty peaceful people as long as they have drugs. I'm not saying I'm right, but if people wan't to destroy their lives; that's their choice. By legalizing, and investing more money in to rehab to me is a better option. By getting rid of the black market, and taking away the incentive; we can give people less of a reason to kill and steal for drugs. It of course depends on where the money goes from the savings of enforcement. If that money goes to rehabilitation; it will be a success. If it just goes into government coffers; it won't be. This is one issue that the Left, and Right agree on.

Posted by: AK Rich Feb 24 2014, 09:20 AM

A bit overstated don't you think? Here are some crime comparisons. It doesn't look black and white to me. It seems to go back and forth depending on the types of crime.Take note of the drug offenses stats. I looked at a couple other comparisons and while the results vary they certainly were not black and white.

http://www.nationmaster.com/compare/United-Kingdom/United-States/Crime

And as far as the study was concerned , the bottom line says this. "Prospective studies are needed to determine the long-term consequences of receiving a diamorphine prescription." It also states this. " Patients had been receiving a prescription for diamorphine for a median length of six years. The majority were unemployed white males, with a median age of 44 years. Illicit drug use and criminal activity, while low, had not been eliminated totally."
Now if these people were in jail what would the illicit drug use and crimes be? Zero? And at a lower cost to society?

Obviously the jury is still out on the effectiveness of this approach, and I for one do not want my tax dollars going to enable these kinds of drug users, to me that is the same as stealing to get the fix , only the gov is doing the stealing for them.

Here is another quote from that study." The experience from the United Kingdom has been one of long-term prescribing with the aim of retaining patients in treatment and reducing the harms caused by illicit drug use."
The aim of retaining the patients in treatment? Notice that it does not say anything about getting the patients off of the drugs? No rehab whatsoever? How does this help anyone, the users or the ones that get stuck with the bill? And how can prescribing the drug reduce the harm of said drug?
And even if it was halfway successful there, it doesn't necessarily mean it could be successful here. As we are two quite different countries.

Posted by: jstcrsn Feb 24 2014, 01:01 PM

I don't know if you took the time to look at the comparisons that rich found , but drugs offenses in england(that think they are tolerant) were 300 percent more based per capita

come on man, you have to be a little skeptical of that so called study, there is no backround info , no stating of criteria used, so many things need to happen for a lagitiment study and without that ,seems like no more than an opinion piece and at the end of it , the same report said it does not have long term stats on whether it works or not , sort of a joke that it was written on if you ask me.

and it is still illegal so they don't know the effect of decriminalizing it

Posted by: Todd Simpson Feb 24 2014, 10:09 PM

Well said Spot on. You happen to be 100% correct IMHO

I'd say the results of the U.K. system compared with our system are ENTIRELY black and white I should have been more clear.

Compared to our crime rates/imprisonment rates/etc. The U.K. system wins hands down. It's not even a close call. You can never eliminate crime entirely, no matter what you do. But their system has gutted the black market and gotten drug related street crime to a fraction of ours. Seems pretty cut and dried

Posted by: NPB1979 Feb 24 2014, 10:23 PM

Government could legalize it, then TAX the HELL out of it, just like tobacco.

The problem is, as I've heard from Law enforcement, is that driving while high can lead to accidents. And it's not something you can measure like alcohol. So it will be hard for someone to get arrested in a traffic violation for being too high to drive safely. I can see that being an issue if legalized.

Posted by: jstcrsn Feb 24 2014, 11:55 PM

so they didn't make it illegal they just vigorously enforced the laws they had

Posted by: Spock Feb 25 2014, 12:48 AM

I'm with Todd on this. I'm from the Bible Belt, South Carolina, and there is legislation in the works to legalize medical canibus oil, and it' not a real long shot from there for total legalization. I think it will eventually become look like the Berlin Wall crumbling here in the states.

I use to love weed, then sometime in my 20s, it turned on me - made me a lazy, hungry bag of psychotic paranoia. If there was NOTHING is the world to stress over, I would sit there and listen to my heart beat, waiting on it to stop.

About 4 years ago, alcohol and caffeine did the same thing to me - now, I don't drink either.

But it is a question of liberty, and not allowing the government to legislate personal "morality" issues.

I'll be blunt, I wish I could smoke weed and find it relaxing and creative, I miss that, and it took me years of constant misery to finally put it down and break the habit.

But I would much rather watch the drug cartels not get their cut, including the CIA aspect, and the private prison industry which fills their pockets with tax-payer money to fund each user incarcerated for it.

I just read today that Colorado was releasing all prisoners doing time for marijuana and all charges stricken from their record - I think that is a great move! Imagine all the poor schmucks serving a life sentence for the "3 Strikes Your Out" policy over weed, for pete sake.

Here's a link to that: http://soundofheart.org/galacticfreepress/content/colorado-will-release-all-marijuana-prisoners-and-expunge-their-records

Anyway, with liberty comes personal responsibility. And people will have to realize that you don't just have a social joint and it not alter your perception, like 1 or 2 drinks. When you smoke wee you get boned dumb - so anyone stoned should not drive either.

Posted by: Palacios Feb 25 2014, 01:11 AM

I agree. I don't think you should drive if your tired, drunk, blind, stoned, impaired in any way. Thats because that puts peoples lives in danger, and if you put others lives in danger; that needs to be against the law. If someone is at their home drunk or high, and not messing with anybody; it's really non of my business. Many promising young people have been turned into hardened criminals because the worst thing about pot seems to be; it's illegal. By taking the crime out of drugs we can.
-Significantly reduce the number of inmates in our prisons; instead of closing schools and laying off teachers; while funding the hell out of the prisons.
-Put the terrorists who threaten to destabilize, and in many cases do destablize other countries out of business.
-Take back the gang infested neighborhoods fueled by drug money.
-Reduce the huge burden on our legal system mostly spent on drug cases.
-Use a fraction of the saving to better fund, and equip drug treatment.
The reason it isn't being legalized nationwide is due to the fact that police are allowed to seize someones property if they are convicted of distribution of drugs. This is a huge source of funding for law enforcement.

Posted by: AK Rich Feb 25 2014, 04:53 AM

Unfortunately the statistics do not support that opinion to the extent you claim. More overstatement. The black market in the UK hardly looks "gutted" to me.

Black Market in the UK http://www.havocscope.com/tag/united-kingdom/

And I have already shown crime stats that dispute your "Black and White" comparison. The way you try to make it sound just doesn't look to be accurate.

With all due respect, I guess we will just have to agree to disagree. No worries

Posted by: AK Rich Feb 25 2014, 05:24 AM

Just to be clear on the topic in case some may have missed it. I do support the legalization of marijuana at the federal level and especially hemp production which has many benefits.

http://www.hemp-guide.com/benefits-of-hemp.html

http://hempbenefits.org/

However, I do not support the legalization or subsidization of drugs such as heroin , cocaine ,and crystal meth among others , which has been suggested here by some as the topic has evolved.

Posted by: dcz702 Feb 25 2014, 08:22 AM

i think pot should be legalized. but it should also be stricly regulated like alcohol. Many people will argue that its a gateway drug, its highly addictive, and will destroy our youth. i do agree with that to some extent, young people who get into partying and experimenting most of the time try several diffent drugs out of curiousity or pressure or both. and i dont necessarily beleive that weed is the reason why youth may try other drugs, but i can see how its opens there curiousity more. i do think that it should be kept out of there reach untill they are capable of making there own wise decisions, although that seems to be decling no matter the age of people in our society recently . i dont do drugs never have i rarley drink alcohol and im a pretty responible guy with a loving family, and i smoke from time to time, and that goes for alot of my friends to. its important to treat it as a recration and not over do it, same with alchohol eating crap and several other things people enjoy that may not be the best for your health. i also think that alot of good people are charged with crimes over laws on marijauna are wrongfully slapped with legal reprucssions that they just dont deserve, yea they did something illegal and if they were using there heads at the time, realized what the repruccusions are, but a like minded person as myself doesnt see the big deal of growing plants, alot of people do it as a hooby and are very skilled in botiny and enjoy watching the fruits of there labor, alot of these poeple are not doing it to be drug dealers, but some are. If any legal drug should be illegal its alcohol more people are killed from drunk drivers, more people run there lives into the ground from alcoholism, and more violence occurs from people being out of there minds hammered than marijauna, most definatley.
heres a little humor
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Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Feb 25 2014, 10:18 AM

I think that in his case - growing up had some major contribution Or it could be a simple marketing stunt, to relaunch his career... who knows?

Posted by: dcz702 Feb 25 2014, 10:47 AM

Yes cosmin I agree it's been really cool watching snoop grow and become who he is today. I'm not much of a hip hop rap kinda guy but I like a lot of his music. I recently watch a documentary of his trip to Jamaica where he gets influence from the Jamaican culture and chills with bunny I enjoyed the documentary a lot, but later read that bunny wailer critized snoop and was concerned he used the Rastafarian culture for personal gain.

Posted by: jstcrsn Feb 25 2014, 12:10 PM

what drives me crazy is that so many of you Americans bash America, your are on the side of the liberal press and it seems that you never have anything good to say about this great country( iknow not all), but topic after topic, you keep bashing,if you don't like ,move

Posted by: Palacios Feb 25 2014, 08:22 PM

Ha Ha Ha. Who is bashing America? I'm a Liberal; so of course I support the facts, or as you might say, "Liberal Press". The extreme right bashes our country more than anyone. They should move to a place more in line with their thinking like Putin's Russia. They seem in love with him anyway. There are plenty of good things about our country, but since I was born here, vote, and pay a lot of taxes; I'm entitled to an opinion. Your ok jstcrsn; I know you have an opinion just like mine.

Posted by: Headbanger Feb 25 2014, 08:57 PM

I thought this forum was called chill out

Posted by: Ben Higgins Feb 25 2014, 10:23 PM

This wins 'best comment'

Posted by: jstcrsn Feb 26 2014, 02:49 AM

liberals support the fax , thanks , I needed a good laugh


like the fax the democrats have been in control of the senate for 7 years , nancy pelosi failed in her constitutional duty to pass a budget in the house 3 out her 4 years leading it , Barack Obama has doubled the dept after saying he would cut it in half . This economy you keep blaming bush for even after Obama got everything he wanted just the way he wanted it for his first 2 years you mean , those facts


and the lie that the right loves Putin , lies,lies lies , the right is warning of Putin and him trying to put the soviet union back together , he already invaded Goergia and the freedom they are fighting for in the Ukraine is against communist regime backed by Putin
wasn't it barack , on open mic that told the Russian presisdent He will have more leeway after the elections and he needs to be patient
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2120558/Obama-open-mic-Microphones-pick-U-S-President-boasting-Medvedev-winning-reelection.html

socialism never brings people up out off poverty , it only brings everyone into it and makes a rich , evil and powerful ruling class. Everytime
Venezuela ? Cuba ?


and I would love to see your information on The right so called "in love with putin"

here is a quick story or the right warning of Putin and in it , you guessed it Harry reid(liberal democrat) was on Putin's side
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2013/09/top-democrat-almost-wanted-to-vomit-over-putin-op-ed/

Posted by: AK Rich Feb 26 2014, 03:15 AM

Just another thought on a major factor concerning the black market in the US, specifically illegal drug trade. The US is in close proximity to 17 of the 21 nations determined by the POTUS to be "Major Drug Transit and Drug Producing Countries for FY 2014"

"Pursuant to section 706(1) of the Foreign Relations Authorization Act, FY 2003 (Public Law 107-228)(FRAA), I hereby identify the following countries as major drug transit and/or major illicit drug producing countries: Afghanistan, The Bahamas, Belize, Bolivia, Burma, Colombia, Costa Rica, the Dominican Republic, Ecuador, El Salvador, Guatemala, Haiti, Honduras, India, Jamaica, Laos, Mexico, Nicaragua, Pakistan, Panama, Peru, and Venezuela."

Of course we know that Mexico is one of these nations and a direct avenue for drugs coming from most of those other nations. Here is the determination made by the President.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2013/09/13/presidential-determination-major-drug-transit-and-drug-producing-countri

My point is that I believe a more stringent border security, combined with the efforts of those nations to curb the illegal drug production in those nations would go a long way, and further than copying policies in the UK to reduce the illegal black market drug trade in the US.

Will it happen? Probably not.

Here is some more relevant info about some of the nations listed above.

http://www.thegooddrugsguide.com/blog/0754/7-countries-where-drug-lords-lord-it-over/

Posted by: Palacios Feb 26 2014, 03:56 AM

My God your brain just vomited all over my computer. I realize your just talking with your Republican filter, and that's fine. You sound like my father in law.lol I'm gonna do the forum a favor and not respond to your Fox News marching orders because you probably won't believe any facts I present you, and it's just gonna become a useless back and fourth. I'll graciously agree to disagree. Besides we both agree pot should be legal.

Posted by: Todd Simpson Feb 26 2014, 06:31 AM

Seconded!!! Best Thread Comment Kudos!

Sadly, prohibition has been shown to be pointless here in the states as evidenced by our failed "war on drugs" and by the massive expansion of the Black Market and cartels. So that approach hasn't worked, won't work, will never work, etc. ..... The "Border Security" issue remains a red herring IMHO. If we did actually close the borders, the entire produce industry would collapse. The waves of secondary effects through the economy would be quite negative. So no help there either.

Back to reform, and new approaches that have shown to work elsewhere.

The good news is many states are doing what will be done (eventually) by all the states create new laws to help eradicate the black market, create massive new revenue streams, etc. (e.g decriminalize/legalize.....)

These things take time and it's only right that it be slow and methodical. People take a while to accept change, so we have to move state by state on some things.





They SUBSIDIZE heroin users in the UK They give them smack and provide needles. It's greatly reduced street crime and gutted the black market It's a HUGE win and we should do the same here. I get the reactionary response, just part of the landscape. But hopefully as we move toward legalization, state by state, programs like the one in the UK will be replicated here

Here is a study that can spell it all out It's reduced heroin use to the lowest level in years.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19825706

But I get that crsn will say it's all "made up" and stuff

Posted by: Todd Simpson Feb 26 2014, 07:10 AM

You did snag the one chunk of data (out of context of course) that supports your argument so well done there! Sadly, despite the UK being ranked 2 and US being ranked 4th, let's dig in a bit deeper. Here's one for ya.

Prisoners
UK. 78,753 prisoners
U.S. 2,019,234 prisoners

The arrest rate for drugs is pretty high in the uk, but here's the rub. We have the most imprisoned population on EARTH ( ranked #1) and half of all federal prisoners are there for guess what ? Yup, Drugs. So there goes that one

http://www.nationmaster.com/compare/United-Kingdom/United-States/Crime

Posted by: dcz702 Feb 26 2014, 07:20 AM

i dont think the blame for the mess our country is in belongs to anyone political party or obama even bush. american corperations are greedy and dont give a shit about the well being of the american public. im not bashing america i love my country i just think we are misinformed and when we start trying to figure out what happened we start pointing fingers.
during the clinton administration they were pushing hard to have china on the world trade organization, it was supposed to create jobs boost the economy and a bunch of shit i just dont understand, but it back fired. soon after they joined, companies started opening factories overseas, over 1/3 of american factories now operate in china, there went alot of jobs not to mention our exports, now were importing things that were originally made in the u.s.! not to mention giving another super power country the means to create there tech and products from our tech and products. Now the companies who wish to remain in the U.S. and keep the jobs home can't, simply cause they cant compete with companies who sold out. Now we have hardly any exports cause everything is cheaper overseas, we export cash to pay for a stupid mistake casued more than a decade ago. on top of all this what upsets me even more is that china doesnt have many lawys against disposal of waste from factories wich also saves the corperations money, and fucks up the planet were all supposed to cherish. some people made out like bandits while the mojority payed the price. dont realy see how obama was going to reverse a bad desision already in full effect.
then we go spend over 3 trillion on a war! the U.S. spent 2 billion a week in afghanistan alone, enough to feed and put every citizen through school and pay for healthcare. just think what 3 trillion could have done for this country, research into renewable energy and healthcare, but no poeple wanna fight! i like to think there was a reason for all of this but really i think greed consumed our country, dont get me wrong i love my country and my freedom, but as a society i think were all screwing up together.
felt a uncontrolable urge to put my 2 scents in after reading this thread!
now back to poppa chubby

Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Feb 26 2014, 09:42 AM

Too much politics here for me - so I'll be chilling out

Posted by: jstcrsn Feb 26 2014, 01:24 PM

I just gave you facts, I was wanting a mature rebutle against and you start squeezing out gibberish, you said we did something and I showed you facts that did dispute it, now I want some facts that back up your claims. thats what mature debate is, but that is the way the left responds, they start demeaning those that just want a debate


I can mostly agree with this,but I beleive both parties are taking us off the cliff(,as i posted in our last political thread the bad about bush and pelos)i. It just seems the Left has no blame to give to them selves


here is the difference in our attitudes, the left says its kind,but I said" all you do is complain then leave"- making it your choice , you want me to leave because my opinion is different than yours-making it your choice not mine , by the way thats is pretty much how hitler rose to power, they forced out different opinons, which is not a big deal until it is yours



I used the drug criteria because it was a thread about the legalization of drugs, because you were touting england and what they are doing , to me, didn't seem to be working



Drug offences 183,419 per 100,000 people 560.1 per 100,000 people
Ranked 2nd. 326 times more than United States Ranked 4th.

and for the record, I don't have a problem legalizing it and releasing all non violent offenders

I will admit my error ,Pelosci only did it once , the democrat controlled senate failed 3 times

Posted by: wrk Feb 26 2014, 01:26 PM

.. i changed my mind, Marijuana should be legalized ... very quickly !!

Posted by: Palacios Feb 26 2014, 06:10 PM

No Jstcrsn. We're not gonna have a debate. This isn't the place to do a back and fourth. Besides to have a debate;I'd have to first care about changing your mind, and I don't. I said you were entitled to your opinion. So for the sake of not turning this forum into an example of how toxic the political environment in the US; I'll gladly concede.

Posted by: jstcrsn Feb 26 2014, 06:24 PM

so you say something, never give any proof, and then take the high road and say you don't want to get into it
feel free to pm me the info on conservatives backing Putin,Obama not doubling the debt, stuff like that

Posted by: Palacios Feb 26 2014, 07:08 PM

Your too funny jstcrsn. I'd love to argue with you by PM, but I know what would happen. It will get long and drawn out, and after a while I'll start saying, "This f&%king guy again! Dosen't he realize he's full of s&*t yet?" every time I check my inbox. I'll just concede early so I can avoid the irritation. We'll just agree to disagree.

"Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience." –Mark Twain

Posted by: jstcrsn Feb 26 2014, 07:47 PM

once again another fine examples of the left calling themselves accepting , even handed, tolerant and then demeaning me the way you have

Posted by: Todd Simpson Feb 26 2014, 08:35 PM

Easy now!! Guys, I enjoy this kind back and forth probably a bit too much, and far too often people start to somehow begin to personalize these issues and it stops being fun Once we start getting a pinch to prickly with each other, the time for civil discourse has probably passed. I want to thank everyone for their contributions to a very dynamic conversation. This will be my last post on this one.

Back to Guitar!!!

Todd

Posted by: AK Rich Feb 26 2014, 08:38 PM

The notion that the the agriculture industry would collapse if stronger border security was implemented is nothing more than pure speculation with not much to back it up for a couple reasons I can think of right off the top of my head.

First, just because you have locked down the border doesn't mean you can't continue to have temporary visa's for migrant workers.
And secondly there is no minimum wage requirement for the agriculture industry in this country.
You may not know this but there is a small but robust agriculture industry here in Alaska and we do just fine without migrant workers.

And as far as that article is concerned, I am not going to dismiss it and say it is made up , but I will say that it says this.The success rate is said to be less than one third.

"nearly one-third of users in the last seven years successfully completed their treatment and did not return (about 105,000 users out of 366,200)"

I wouldn't exactly call that a high rate of success and I would wager we have just as much success here with rehab and the prison system.
Also it is only fair to note that there is no opposing or contesting view in that article so it is only one side of the story.

And as far as the black market being "gutted." And crime rates being" black and white" I have already shown that to be highly exaggerated. Did you take a look at the total crimes and total crime victims for the US and the UK? Rape victims? And the more relevant drug offenses?
We are ranked 1st and the UK ranked 2nd for total crimes.
For total crime victims, we are ranked 15th and the UK is ranked 3rd.
Rape victims we are ranked 13th and the UK ranked 6th.
Drug offenses we are ranked 4th and the UK ranked 2nd.
Like I said before, it goes back and forth and is nowhere near "black and white."

I also noted the prisoner numbers you put up in another post. Lets keep in mind that the population of the US is 5 times that of the UK.
And that 2 million prisoners is less that .7% of the population. Not saying that is great , just putting it into perspective.
And your claim that half of the federal prison population is there for drug convictions is highly questionable. Got any numbers to back that up?

Oh wait, here you go , that only took a minute.Although it is the highest percentage,according to this only 19.5% of the federal prison population are there for drug offenses.
Far from half. So, more exaggeration?

http://www.cga.ct.gov/2008/rpt/2008-R-0589.htm

Posted by: Palacios Feb 26 2014, 08:43 PM

I agree. That's why I conceded. Although refusing to argue can stew people even more; which can be hilarious. I don't have hard feelings toward anybody who disagrees with me. Everyone has an opinion, and they seldom change it.

Posted by: Azzaboi Feb 26 2014, 09:05 PM

I've completely lost track of what is going on and to be honest don't really care for the arguing...

Smoke weed and chill... Peace not war...

Bob Marley, Jack Black, Jimmy Hendrix, Abraham Lincoln, Bill Clinton, Kurt Cobain, Snoop Dogg, Dr. Dre, Eminem, Bob Dylan, The Beatles, etc... Justin Bieber... Ahh cr@p weed isn't cool and creative anymore, I give it up!

We can at least see one fact, the only good presidents where ones which smoked. When the American Presidents stop smoking weed, they became paranoid of terrorists attacks, hungry for power/resources and spend most of their tax payers money towards military warfare and spying on others including their own people, rather than healthcare or education.

Posted by: AK Rich Feb 26 2014, 09:39 PM

Works for me. I hope I haven't come across as taking it personal or getting mad or insulting about anything here. I too enjoy a good debate and hope I haven't offended anyone with my views on the matters at hand. It certainly was not my intention to do so. I would like to add that the conversation here has been nowhere near as uncivil as the comments sections of the news articles I read online these days. Thanks for that.

Rock on!

Posted by: bleez Feb 26 2014, 10:46 PM

That's awesome! we never usually win anything.
Come on now fellow countrymen .... a little more effort here and we can totally take the number 1 slot. Go buy some weed NOW....... we can do it!

Posted by: jstcrsn Feb 27 2014, 12:32 AM

this is the number 1 comment on this thread

Posted by: Ben Higgins Feb 27 2014, 09:57 AM

I'll pass on the green if you don't mind. We're more heroin lovers down here




*JOKE*

Posted by: Palacios Feb 28 2014, 07:18 PM

Be careful. GMC will start drug testing, and you'll all end up in rehab. When I was in high school they brought a drug sniffing dog on campus. For some strange reason the dog always ended up in our guitar class twice a week. I guess that was the best place to look.

Posted by: Ben Higgins Feb 28 2014, 07:24 PM

Don't worry.. coffee is about as hard as it gets for me !

Posted by: AK Rich Feb 28 2014, 07:47 PM

Thats funny, but didn't you know that music is far more dangerous than drugs? Check the first 3 minutes or so of this.