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GMC Forum _ GEAR & PRODUCTION _ Finally Got My Midi Controller But....
Posted by: Milenkovic Ivan Jan 29 2008, 12:24 AM
Hi guys, I bought (finally) a new MIDI controller - M-Audio Oxygen 49
here's a picture:
The trouble is now - I don't know how to use it. I can use only the keys and all, but I don't have a clue how to connect the faders to lets say the faders in the Nuendo Mixer, or to assign knobs to some functions....
Can someone who knows how that stuff works explain it to me in beginners terms, cause I'm completely new at this. If it is too much to write at least give me some links where can I find a decent manuals of literature for this kind of work. Thanks 
Posted by: Scott Gentzen Jan 29 2008, 12:39 AM
QUOTE (Milenkovic Ivan @ Jan 28 2008, 11:24 PM) 
Hi guys, I bought (finally) a new MIDI controller - M-Audio Oxygen 49
here's a picture:
The trouble is now - I don't know how to use it. I can use only the keys and all, but I don't have a clue how to connect the faders to lets say the faders in the Nuendo Mixer, or to assign knobs to some functions....
Can someone who knows how that stuff works explain it to me in beginners terms, cause I'm completely new at this. If it is too much to write at least give me some links where can I find a decent manuals of literature for this kind of work. Thanks
here's a picture:
The trouble is now - I don't know how to use it. I can use only the keys and all, but I don't have a clue how to connect the faders to lets say the faders in the Nuendo Mixer, or to assign knobs to some functions....
Can someone who knows how that stuff works explain it to me in beginners terms, cause I'm completely new at this. If it is too much to write at least give me some links where can I find a decent manuals of literature for this kind of work. Thanks
I have something similar. I had a smaller Oxygen but goofed up the USB port. Now I have a PCR-50.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/scottgentzen/1351195516/
The problem that you're going to have is that you have to know how to map the controls inside the program you're using. Ableton Live, you click the MIDI button , then pick an on-screen control and then move the part of your MIDI controller that you want to use. Reason has a database of controlers so if it knows what you're using, it'll automatically map your controls to...something and from there it's up to you to chancge it if you want.
The keys are easy, because the MIDI codes that they send out are the same for pretty much any MIDI keyboard. Usually the modwheel and pitchbend are the same too. It's all the other knobs and faders that are a problem...for one controller, the ID of a particular knob might be something completely different on another piece of hardware. My PCR-50 allows me to change the ID's of different parts of the unit. Others probably do too.
Unfortunately, I don't know anything about Nuendo.
Posted by: Milenkovic Ivan Jan 29 2008, 12:49 AM
I don't really understand what you mean man 
I use Nuendo, and it has MIDI Device Manager... I've tried to read a manual, but it gets to some MIDI mumbo-jumbo fast, and I'm having trouble following it
Do you know how can I , for example assign ONE fader from the controller to , say, a fader of some audio track in the mixer?? Or...how to have a preset bank and when I open a new prohect, transport buttons and other assigned buttons are operational?....
Posted by: Muris Jan 29 2008, 02:39 AM
I had my Midi Controller Keyboard connected with Reason,
I was able to do all mixing stuff from it but it was so useless for me,dunno.
Now I use it strictly to record midi parts,that's all.
Posted by: Juan M. Valero Jan 29 2008, 08:30 AM
interesting topic, I want to buy a MIDI controller so I will ask my doubts here !!!
Posted by: Milenkovic Ivan Jan 29 2008, 12:10 PM
I will do some researching on the net and see if I can dig up something about programming the MIDI controller for Nuendo. In the meantime, I ask anybody who knows anything about this sort of work to write his experiences. THanks!
Posted by: Scott Gentzen Jan 29 2008, 12:36 PM
QUOTE (Muris @ Jan 29 2008, 01:39 AM)
I had my Midi Controller Keyboard connected with Reason,
I was able to do all mixing stuff from it but it was so useless for me,dunno.
Now I use it strictly to record midi parts,that's all.
I was able to do all mixing stuff from it but it was so useless for me,dunno.
Now I use it strictly to record midi parts,that's all.
Reason's an interesting program. The main problem with it has always been that it won't record an audio stream from anywhere. It only handles sounds generated from inside the rack (well, ad through ReWire but that's a separate discussion).
Typically what you'll see if someone's doing guitar in Reason is that they're recording through Audacity or something like that and then loading the results into one of the samplers and mixing that way.
Posted by: Twibeard Jan 29 2008, 01:09 PM
QUOTE (Juan M. Valero @ Jan 29 2008, 08:30 AM)
interesting topic, I want to buy a MIDI controller so I will ask my doubts here !!!
This is excatly why I recommented the Novation ReMote SL with Automap, it removes the pain and time involved in assigning MIDI parameters. With the M-Audio you probably have to do some investigation and set-up things manually.
With the ReMote SL keyboard you can controle all parameters in your VSTs, LFOs Filters a.s.o. And when you go from one VST to another, it automaticly switches all controllers to that VST - and still keeps the LFOs on the same sliders on your keyboard. Very cool
It also controls your sequenser, Reaper, Logic, Abelton a.s.o. Say you use Cubase, what happens is that when you open, say, your mixer inside Cubase, the Automap feature automaticly puts all the controles to the Keyboard. So its perfect for a studio setup. I almost never use the mouse, clicking around inside Cubase anymore, I mostly use the automated controllers transferred to the Keyboard.
http://www.novationmusic.com/global/products/
Posted by: Scott Gentzen Jan 29 2008, 01:14 PM
QUOTE (Milenkovic Ivan @ Jan 28 2008, 11:49 PM)
I don't really understand what you mean man
I use Nuendo, and it has MIDI Device Manager... I've tried to read a manual, but it gets to some MIDI mumbo-jumbo fast, and I'm having trouble following it
Do you know how can I , for example assign ONE fader from the controller to , say, a fader of some audio track in the mixer?? Or...how to have a preset bank and when I open a new prohect, transport buttons and other assigned buttons are operational?....
I use Nuendo, and it has MIDI Device Manager... I've tried to read a manual, but it gets to some MIDI mumbo-jumbo fast, and I'm having trouble following it
Do you know how can I , for example assign ONE fader from the controller to , say, a fader of some audio track in the mixer?? Or...how to have a preset bank and when I open a new prohect, transport buttons and other assigned buttons are operational?....
Is the manual for Nuendo online somewhere? I can take a look but won't have time to til after work tonight. I've never used it so I can't talk directly to how it works without looking at the manual. It looks a lot like Cubase. I think you should be able to assign your buttons and faders once and then save that as a template somewhere.
To break the explanation down, MIDI is pretty simple. Each key, knob, button and fader has a number assigned to it that is its identity in your controller. When you move a fader, or push a key on the keyboard, it sends MIDI codes to describe what you just did. The code starts with the identifier of what part of the controller you're touching and follows with more codes to describe what you're doing.
For example, if you push a key on the keyboard, it'll send a code that says something like '60 is on with a velocity of 50'.
Keyboard keys are easy because the ID's are always the same...middle C is "60"...so the keyboard part will always map in whatever program you're using. What you're running into is that when you turn a knob, you're sending something like "86's value is 99" and Nuendo doesn't know what part of its interface to assign "86" to.
You don't necessarily need to know a ton about MIDI to get this done...all you're really dealing with is assigning the MIDI ID's of your physical interface to the interface of your software. Once you figure out the process for Nuendo, you don't have to mess with it much after.
Not that it'll hurt you to know how it works. If you're recording your software's just recording the MIDI data that your controller is sending. If you don't like some part of what you played, you can go back into the recorded data and change it without having to re-record anything. Also, if you start adding more devices it helps to know how it all works to keep them in sync and to track down problems.
If anyone cares, I can dig up some links to stuff tonight that can help explain things some more. I haven't had enough coffee yet this morning and I haven't thought about MIDI in about a year. I'm not an expert but I do know some stuff in this area.
Posted by: Twibeard Jan 29 2008, 01:41 PM
QUOTE (Scott Gentzen @ Jan 29 2008, 01:14 PM)
Is the manual for Nuendo online somewhere? I can take a look but won't have time to til after work tonight. I've never used it so I can't talk directly to how it works without looking at the manual. It looks a lot like Cubase. I think you should be able to assign your buttons and faders once and then save that as a template somewhere.
To break the explanation down, MIDI is pretty simple. Each key, knob, button and fader has a number assigned to it that is its identity in your controller. When you move a fader, or push a key on the keyboard, it sends MIDI codes to describe what you just did. The code starts with the identifier of what part of the controller you're touching and follows with more codes to describe what you're doing.
For example, if you push a key on the keyboard, it'll send a code that says something like '60 is on with a velocity of 50'.
Keyboard keys are easy because the ID's are always the same...middle C is "60"...so the keyboard part will always map in whatever program you're using. What you're running into is that when you turn a knob, you're sending something like "86's value is 99" and Nuendo doesn't know what part of its interface to assign "86" to.
You don't necessarily need to know a ton about MIDI to get this done...all you're really dealing with is assigning the MIDI ID's of your physical interface to the interface of your software. Once you figure out the process for Nuendo, you don't have to mess with it much after.
Not that it'll hurt you to know how it works. If you're recording your software's just recording the MIDI data that your controller is sending. If you don't like some part of what you played, you can go back into the recorded data and change it without having to re-record anything. Also, if you start adding more devices it helps to know how it all works to keep them in sync and to track down problems.
If anyone cares, I can dig up some links to stuff tonight that can help explain things some more. I haven't had enough coffee yet this morning and I haven't thought about MIDI in about a year. I'm not an expert but I do know some stuff in this area.
To break the explanation down, MIDI is pretty simple. Each key, knob, button and fader has a number assigned to it that is its identity in your controller. When you move a fader, or push a key on the keyboard, it sends MIDI codes to describe what you just did. The code starts with the identifier of what part of the controller you're touching and follows with more codes to describe what you're doing.
For example, if you push a key on the keyboard, it'll send a code that says something like '60 is on with a velocity of 50'.
Keyboard keys are easy because the ID's are always the same...middle C is "60"...so the keyboard part will always map in whatever program you're using. What you're running into is that when you turn a knob, you're sending something like "86's value is 99" and Nuendo doesn't know what part of its interface to assign "86" to.
You don't necessarily need to know a ton about MIDI to get this done...all you're really dealing with is assigning the MIDI ID's of your physical interface to the interface of your software. Once you figure out the process for Nuendo, you don't have to mess with it much after.
Not that it'll hurt you to know how it works. If you're recording your software's just recording the MIDI data that your controller is sending. If you don't like some part of what you played, you can go back into the recorded data and change it without having to re-record anything. Also, if you start adding more devices it helps to know how it all works to keep them in sync and to track down problems.
If anyone cares, I can dig up some links to stuff tonight that can help explain things some more. I haven't had enough coffee yet this morning and I haven't thought about MIDI in about a year. I'm not an expert but I do know some stuff in this area.
+1
And Ivan, you should also look at the download site at M-Audio's ... there should be some documentation of how to do it manually, and then use the info you get from Scott Gentzen to hook the things together.
Posted by: Juan M. Valero Jan 29 2008, 02:44 PM
QUOTE (Twibeard @ Jan 29 2008, 01:09 PM)
This is excatly why I recommented the Novation ReMote SL with Automap, it removes the pain and time involved in assigning MIDI parameters. With the M-Audio you probably have to do some investigation and set-up things manually.
With the ReMote SL keyboard you can controle all parameters in your VSTs, LFOs Filters a.s.o. And when you go from one VST to another, it automaticly switches all controllers to that VST - and still keeps the LFOs on the same sliders on your keyboard. Very cool
It also controls your sequenser, Reaper, Logic, Abelton a.s.o. Say you use Cubase, what happens is that when you open, say, your mixer inside Cubase, the Automap feature automaticly puts all the controles to the Keyboard. So its perfect for a studio setup. I almost never use the mouse, clicking around inside Cubase anymore, I mostly use the automated controllers transferred to the Keyboard.
http://www.novationmusic.com/global/products/
With the ReMote SL keyboard you can controle all parameters in your VSTs, LFOs Filters a.s.o. And when you go from one VST to another, it automaticly switches all controllers to that VST - and still keeps the LFOs on the same sliders on your keyboard. Very cool
It also controls your sequenser, Reaper, Logic, Abelton a.s.o. Say you use Cubase, what happens is that when you open, say, your mixer inside Cubase, the Automap feature automaticly puts all the controles to the Keyboard. So its perfect for a studio setup. I almost never use the mouse, clicking around inside Cubase anymore, I mostly use the automated controllers transferred to the Keyboard.
http://www.novationmusic.com/global/products/
WOW, thank you, looks great !!! the Automap is a good idea for who don't want to spend lot of hours programing... like I am
Posted by: Twibeard Jan 29 2008, 02:50 PM
QUOTE (Juan M. Valero @ Jan 29 2008, 02:44 PM)
WOW, thank you, looks great !!! the Automap is a good idea for who don't want to spend lot of hours programing... like I am
Hehe ...
Well I really enjoy it. It actually moved the studio to the external controlers, and it's really cool if you are a Synth/LFO squeeker .. like I am
Posted by: Milenkovic Ivan Jan 29 2008, 09:15 PM
Thanks for the advices guys!! I have searched on the M-Audio site and found very little documentation about the device. The user manual is terrible. I must sit down and learn a lot about this.... I'll try with Nuendo help and keep you updated.
Again I ask if someone else knows anything about this, please post, so we can overcome this problem together. Thanks guys!
Posted by: Scott Gentzen Jan 30 2008, 04:06 AM
QUOTE (Milenkovic Ivan @ Jan 29 2008, 08:15 PM)
Thanks for the advices guys!! I have searched on the M-Audio site and found very little documentation about the device. The user manual is terrible. I must sit down and learn a lot about this.... I'll try with Nuendo help and keep you updated.
Again I ask if someone else knows anything about this, please post, so we can overcome this problem together. Thanks guys!
Again I ask if someone else knows anything about this, please post, so we can overcome this problem together. Thanks guys!
I'm looking. They don't seem to make it easy to find documentation. I still say that it's an Nuendo thing. I'm looking through the knowledgebase. The thing that I'm fighting with is that there's a term for the identifer of a part of your controller, MIDI-wise and I can't remember what it is.
We'll figure it out.
Posted by: Pavel Jan 30 2008, 11:10 AM
QUOTE (Milenkovic Ivan @ Jan 29 2008, 09:15 PM)
Thanks for the advices guys!! I have searched on the M-Audio site and found very little documentation about the device. The user manual is terrible. I must sit down and learn a lot about this.... I'll try with Nuendo help and keep you updated.
Again I ask if someone else knows anything about this, please post, so we can overcome this problem together. Thanks guys!
Again I ask if someone else knows anything about this, please post, so we can overcome this problem together. Thanks guys!
Congrats on your new gear buddy! Unfortunately i can't help you with faders as i don't have those
Posted by: Muris Jan 30 2008, 11:18 AM
I still can't recall how I connected my controller to Reason but I think it wasn't that hard 
.
Also,I had some manual I think...
Posted by: Dejan Jan 30 2008, 11:24 AM
I also have M-Audio midi keyboard, but keystation 61es with semi-weighted velocity sensitive keys, nice keyboard for cheap price
As per midi programing of the keys, check Nuendo manual if it has anything on this topic, somehow you have to assign functions to specific keys, but frankly there's not much use of it
Posted by: Muris Jan 30 2008, 11:28 AM
QUOTE (Dejan @ Jan 30 2008, 11:24 AM)
I also have M-Audio midi keyboard, but keystation 61es with semi-weighted velocity sensitive keys, nice keyboard for cheap price
As per midi programing of the keys, check Nuendo manual if it has anything on this topic, somehow you have to assign functions to specific keys, but frankly there's not much use of it
As per midi programing of the keys, check Nuendo manual if it has anything on this topic, somehow you have to assign functions to specific keys, but frankly there's not much use of it
Yeah,I got same feeling as Dejan,I assigned mixer to a keyboard
but didn't have much use of it indeed...
Posted by: Dejan Jan 30 2008, 11:34 AM
For me it is easier to mix with mouse, using automation
But would like to switch to something like http://www.mackie.com/products/HUI/
in the matter of fact I almost bought one on eBay for $500, but since its 16kg heavy the shipping would be around $200 or even more 
Posted by: Muris Jan 30 2008, 11:41 AM
QUOTE (Dejan @ Jan 30 2008, 11:34 AM)
For me it is easier to mix with mouse, using automation
But would like to switch to something like http://www.mackie.com/products/HUI/
in the matter of fact I almost bought one on eBay for $500, but since its 16kg heavy the shipping would be around $200 or even more
But would like to switch to something like http://www.mackie.com/products/HUI/
in the matter of fact I almost bought one on eBay for $500, but since its 16kg heavy the shipping would be around $200 or even more
Jesi to bio kod Marina? 
Posted by: Dejan Jan 30 2008, 11:50 AM
QUOTE (Muris @ Jan 30 2008, 11:41 AM)
Jesi to bio kod Marina? ma jok, vidio na netu
kojeg marina?
imal on hui-a? 
Posted by: Muris Jan 30 2008, 11:55 AM
QUOTE (Dejan @ Jan 30 2008, 11:50 AM)
ma jok, vidio na netu
kojeg marina? imal on hui-a?
kojeg marina?
imal on hui-a? Marin,jedan i jedini,sa Malte,nepokretan,ima studio u plavom neboderu.
Neznam jel to taj modal al je to to,Mackie,automatizacija itd
Posted by: Paul Coutts Jan 30 2008, 11:59 AM
There's a piece of software on the M-Audio website, called Enigma...basically maps all your keys and faders to what you want in the software
Posted by: Dejan Jan 30 2008, 12:02 PM
QUOTE (Muris @ Jan 30 2008, 11:55 AM)
Marin,jedan i jedini,sa Malte,nepokretan,ima studio u plavom neboderu.
Neznam jel to taj modal al je to to,Mackie,automatizacija itd
Neznam jel to taj modal al je to to,Mackie,automatizacija itd
ah znam koji je, nisam bio tamo
ma ovo cudo je malo, 8 kanala, veze se na midi port i ima mrdajuce fejdere
Posted by: Muris Jan 30 2008, 12:13 PM
QUOTE (Dejan @ Jan 30 2008, 12:02 PM)
ah znam koji je, nisam bio tamo
ma ovo cudo je malo, 8 kanala, veze se na midi port i ima mrdajuce fejdere
ma ovo cudo je malo, 8 kanala, veze se na midi port i ima mrdajuce fejdere
Aha,ovaj njegov Mackie je dosta veci,24 kanala,mozda i vise,
faderi automatika i slicne djakonije
Posted by: Milenkovic Ivan Jan 30 2008, 12:50 PM
QUOTE (Paul Coutts @ Jan 30 2008, 11:59 AM)
There's a piece of software on the M-Audio website, called Enigma...basically maps all your keys and faders to what you want in the software
Yes I have that installed and going through its help as I post this, but there isn't much help there either... I must seriously dvelwe into the MIDI waters.... M-Audio support for Steinberg sucks. They wanted to make things purposly heavy for those who are not using their products. Oh well, back to reading helps...
I'll keep you updated, and when I finally figure out this thing I will write a big review (or a book)
Posted by: Milenkovic Ivan Jan 31 2008, 01:07 AM
Well my friends, I have solved the problem.
In Nuendo:
Devices>Device Setup>Click on the "+" button in the upper left corner>choose "Generic Remote Device"... it's all downhill from there....
Posted by: Muris Jan 31 2008, 02:15 AM
Wow,glad you found it,congrats!!
Have fun.
Posted by: Paul Coutts Jan 31 2008, 05:00 AM
hahahaha, yeah, steinberg is hell to get set up....trying to get it to work ASIO with my POD.....jeez....
Yeah, enjoy it now!
Posted by: Juan M. Valero Jan 31 2008, 08:19 AM
QUOTE (Milenkovic Ivan @ Jan 31 2008, 01:07 AM)
Well my friends, I have solved the problem.
In Nuendo:
Devices>Device Setup>Click on the "+" button in the upper left corner>choose "Generic Remote Device"... it's all downhill from there....
In Nuendo:
Devices>Device Setup>Click on the "+" button in the upper left corner>choose "Generic Remote Device"... it's all downhill from there....
yeah, congratulations !! things are alright now
Posted by: Milenkovic Ivan Jan 31 2008, 02:42 PM
Thanks guys
I'll be writing a review of the device soon. See ya!
Posted by: Scott Gentzen Jan 31 2008, 07:52 PM
QUOTE (Muris @ Jan 30 2008, 10:18 AM)
I still can't recall how I connected my controller to Reason but I think it wasn't that hard .
Also,I had some manual I think...
.Also,I had some manual I think...
Reason has good documentation. Also, it has an internal database of a lot of common gear. When you set up, you can either pick yuor controller from a picklist or have it autodetect.
Posted by: Scott Gentzen Jan 31 2008, 07:53 PM
QUOTE (Milenkovic Ivan @ Jan 31 2008, 12:07 AM)
Well my friends, I have solved the problem.
In Nuendo:
Devices>Device Setup>Click on the "+" button in the upper left corner>choose "Generic Remote Device"... it's all downhill from there....
In Nuendo:
Devices>Device Setup>Click on the "+" button in the upper left corner>choose "Generic Remote Device"... it's all downhill from there....
Yay! Congrats. Good to know.
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