Printable Version of Topic
Click here to view this topic in its original format
GMC Forum _ THEORY _ Jazz Has Always Confused Me
Posted by: PosterBoy Mar 15 2012, 10:05 AM
I'm not a big fan of jazz, but I do love the chord melody stuff of the late Ted Greene, one guitarist was a genius without throwing that word around too freely.
So I've been learning about jazz chords and accompanyment. And I'm starting to understand some of the basics that used to confuse me.
When someone said a tune was basically a I vi ii V and I heard lots of different things going on and thought that it was more than 4 chords for now we don't even have to look into modulation
So a Basic progression
It's jazz so of course they'll add the 7ths in
I vi ii V
C Am Dm G
Cmaj7 Am7 Dm7 G7
First we can change the I to a iii (there's only one note different)
Cmaj7 - C E G B
Em7 - E G B D
C Am Dm G
Em7 Am7 Dm7 G7
Next change changing the vi to a VI
Cmaj7 A7 Dm7 G7
Next tritone substitution for the VI
Cmaj7 Eb7 Dm7 G7
A tritone is an interval with 3 tones between it in this case in A7 the 3rd (C#) and the dom7 (G) which is the same tritone interval in
Eby between the 3rd (G) and 7th (C#) just switched places.
I've dedided to work out the tritone sub by changing the chord to a dominant 7th chord based on the flatted 5th .
So A7, find the 5th (E) flatted it (Eb) and make a dom7 chord Eb7.
Next we can do the same to the V
Cmaj7 Eb7 Dm7 Db7
and lastly we can extend the 7th to 9ths, 13th, 9#5th etc
Cmaj7 Eb9 Dm13 Db7
So with a few basic changes being done we can cycle through, all considered 'normal' in a I vi ii V chord progression
Cmaj7 Am7 Dm7 G7
Em7 Am7 Dm7 G7
Cmaj7 A7 Dm7 G7
Em7 A7 Dm7 G7
Cmaj7 Eb7 Dm7 G7
Em7 Eb7 Dm7 G7
Cmaj7 Am7 Dm7 Db7
Em7 Am7 Dm7 Db7
Cma7 A7 Dm7 Db7
Em7 A7 Dm7 Db7
Cmaj7 Eb7 Dm7 Db7
Em7 Eb7 Dm7 Db7
Posted by: Nihilist1 Mar 15 2012, 10:34 AM
So I've been learning about jazz chords and accompanyment. And I'm starting to understand some of the basics that used to confuse me.
When someone said a tune was basically a I vi ii V and I heard lots of different things going on and thought that it was more than 4 chords for now we don't even have to look into modulation
So a Basic progression
It's jazz so of course they'll add the 7ths in
I vi ii V
C Am Dm G
Cmaj7 Am7 Dm7 G7
First we can change the I to a iii (there's only one note different)
Cmaj7 - C E G B
Em7 - E G B D
C Am Dm G
Em7 Am7 Dm7 G7
Next change changing the vi to a VI
Cmaj7 A7 Dm7 G7
Next tritone substitution for the VI
Cmaj7 Eb7 Dm7 G7
A tritone is an interval with 3 tones between it in this case in A7 the 3rd (C#) and the dom7 (G) which is the same tritone interval in
Eby between the 3rd (G) and 7th (C#) just switched places.
I've dedided to work out the tritone sub by changing the chord to a dominant 7th chord based on the flatted 5th .
So A7, find the 5th (E) flatted it (Eb) and make a dom7 chord Eb7.
Next we can do the same to the V
Cmaj7 Eb7 Dm7 Db7
and lastly we can extend the 7th to 9ths, 13th, 9#5th etc
Cmaj7 Eb9 Dm13 Db7
So with a few basic changes being done we can cycle through, all considered 'normal' in a I vi ii V chord progression
Cmaj7 Am7 Dm7 G7
Em7 Am7 Dm7 G7
Cmaj7 A7 Dm7 G7
Em7 A7 Dm7 G7
Cmaj7 Eb7 Dm7 G7
Em7 Eb7 Dm7 G7
Cmaj7 Am7 Dm7 Db7
Em7 Am7 Dm7 Db7
Cma7 A7 Dm7 Db7
Em7 A7 Dm7 Db7
Cmaj7 Eb7 Dm7 Db7
Em7 Eb7 Dm7 Db7
It looks right to me(I love jazz). Are you working on any specific tune/standard that brought you to this conclusion?
Posted by: PosterBoy Mar 15 2012, 10:50 AM
I was watching a Jimmy Bruno lesson where he explains it all.
I think I might start to add some chord melody standards to my practice routine to off set the punk and Melodic hardcore!
I do have Ted Greens's Chord Chemistry and Modern Chord Progression books, I'd love to get to a point where they are actually useful to me rather the frightening!
Posted by: Nihilist1 Mar 15 2012, 11:22 AM
I think I might start to add some chord melody standards to my practice routine to off set the punk and Melodic hardcore!
I do have Ted Greens's Chord Chemistry and Modern Chord Progression books, I'd love to get to a point where they are actually useful to me rather the frightening!
Ted Greene's books are the best. There is actually an entire forum dedicated to them! I.. uh.. forgot the URL, but I am sure I can find it again. Let me know if you want it!
I actually use jazz in my black metal. It allows me to get interesting progressions and eerie sounds no one else really does. It makes it sound even more dark, and that's okay, hahaha. Some people don't like it, but they can go*insert expletive here* themselves. I like it, and that is enough for me.
Posted by: PosterBoy Mar 15 2012, 11:51 AM
I've found the forum on Ted Greene's site, this stuff really is a whole other language, you really can't just dabble in it!
Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Mar 15 2012, 12:03 PM
I would enjoy the link as well
if you would be so kind 
thank you!
Posted by: Nihilist1 Mar 15 2012, 12:20 PM
if you would be so kind thank you!http://forums.tedgreene.com/
The thing is, you can dabble in jazz. Not to play jazz, but to use its influence in other styles of music. After I had transcribed one song and learned four of them, I was using strange chords I played by accident and creating interesting rhythms and progressions with them. They don't seem to make sense to most, but I am a very progressive player. sue me
EDIT: You might want this, too. It is a great link. Check out the entire site as well.
http://www.tedgreene.com/teaching/default.asp
http://www.tedgreene.com/default.asp
Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Mar 15 2012, 12:31 PM
The thing is, you can dabble in jazz. Not to play jazz, but to use its influence in other styles of music. After I had transcribed one song and learned four of them, I was using strange chords I played by accident and creating interesting rhythms and progressions with them. They don't seem to make sense to most, but I am a very progressive player. sue me
EDIT: You might want this, too. It is a great link. Check out the entire site as well.
http://www.tedgreene.com/teaching/default.asp
http://www.tedgreene.com/default.asp
Thank you mate!
You know how crazy I am about interesting harmonies and sounds which aren't usually found in some genres
Posted by: PosterBoy Mar 15 2012, 12:52 PM
In terms of Dabbling I meant the way it sucks you in with all the intrigue of chord subs, altered chords, common tone chord voicings, that before you know it you're wearing a sweater, you've grown a goatee and lusting over archtop guitars with f holes!!!
Posted by: Nihilist1 Mar 15 2012, 12:52 PM
You know how crazy I am about interesting harmonies and sounds which aren't usually found in some genres Well, I believe that Jazz is the key to that. If you are seriously considering anything regarding Jazz, check out
http://www.jazzguitar.be
they even have an active forum! I lurk there once every few months, but it is a great community to be a part of. I haven't really been concentrating on Jazz since I am mastering all the material for Kranken Welpen and getting ready for the shows we will be playing soon, but as soon as I have all that taken care of, I will be back on the road to mastering Jazz.
For some reason, I find the rhythms more interesting than anything. Maybe it is because I find them harder to play
Because of this, Emily Remler is my favourite Jazz guitarist. She and Wes Montgomery are all I need!
Posted by: PosterBoy Mar 15 2012, 12:56 PM
I'm the same the lead playing in jazz doesn't interest me (at the moment anyhow) but the rhythm side and chord melody stuff is mindblowing
Posted by: Nihilist1 Mar 15 2012, 02:13 PM
I currently feel as if the rhythms aremore complex than the leads. Especially when Wes and Emily are taken into consideration. They use chords in their solos like its nothing. Not in the simplest of ways either. It blows my mind.
However, when I feel like learning Jazz solos and things like that, I always listen to Dizzy Gillespie and Miles Davis.
Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Mar 16 2012, 08:55 AM
Got my eye on those links and I must say they will work out just wonderful for me I have to find some time to read, having the guitar at hand
Posted by: Alex Feather Mar 16 2012, 09:05 AM
Jazz is easy if you understand it
If you want to learn how to play jazz start with playing over ii-V-i cause every jazz song is based on it
I have 11 possible key changes you can download backing tracks and start practicing
here is the link
http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_forum/index.php?showtopic=43443
Let me know if you have any questions!
Powered by Invision Power Board (http://www.invisionboard.com)
© Invision Power Services (http://www.invisionpower.com)