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Posted by: FretDancer69 Nov 5 2007, 11:09 AM

I got the idea from Unleash-the-Shred's "Underrated Guitarists" thread. What guitarists do you think are overrated? Why?

I would say Kurt Cobain. I like his music, i like nirvana and everything, but i think people look at him like if he was a guitar virtuoso or something. Its a good thing if he inspires you, but i dont think he was that talented like other few known guitarists.Thats my opinion.

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Posted by: The Uncreator Nov 5 2007, 11:14 AM

Kurt Cobain
Korn
Slipknot
Bring Me The Horizon (especially these guys)
Muse (sorry muse fans)
Chris Impelliterri
Behold...The Arctopus
Yngwie Malmsteen
Slash (Sorry once again)
Buckethead (Sorry Mattacuk!!)
Avenged Sevenfold

Posted by: Eat-Sleep-andJam Nov 5 2007, 11:15 AM

Hmm its really tough to pick one.


YJM is god so he cant be overrated so thats out of the question



Ummmm Id probably say what ever the dudes name is from Coheed and Cambria
I think hes way overrated , all my friends talk about.

Posted by: shammy Nov 5 2007, 11:50 AM

A Big BOO on The Kurt Cobain choice, The fact that he could take simple melodies and riffs and make them so powerful, makes him so much a better guitar player IMO. I never really seen him compared to a Vai or satriani type player, so maybe these people your referring to feel as i do that he is a virtuoso in the sense of what he accomplished in a short period of time. He created quite a movement. 'again just my thoughts. Peace




p.s. Slash? come on, he is so tasteful and brutally rockish at the same time. your killing me here.(

Posted by: JVM Nov 5 2007, 11:59 AM

I agree on buckethead, but not due to his playing, rather due to his image. There's kind of a mystique around him that he obviously created himself, which makes him out to be bigger than he is. I do think he's an amazing guitarist though.

As for Kurt, he could actually play some technical stuff from what what I've heard. Not shredding, his personal technique didn't lend itself to that, but he did some unconventional stuff too.

Matt Bellamy (muse) - not that great of a guitar player sure, I'd say the same for him as for Kurt, except that Matt isn't out there starting a revolution or anything, so only comparing them technically. I think he's good, and I love Muse, but what makes muse so good isn't the guitar playing, which is really catchy sometimes but not the spotlight. So in that sense I guess he could be overrated.

As for slash, I must disagree. He has written some really amazing stuff. A lot of it isn't sure but what he has done is pretty far up there IMO. Technically overrated perhaps but not musically. The opposite goes for Yngwie, technically not overrated, musically maybe.

One person I'd like to add, now that I'm done picking on Uncreator, is Duane Allman. I just don't get it, I don't think he's that good technically or musically I think he's okay, but I don't understand the massive... overratingness he gets

Posted by: Slammer Nov 5 2007, 12:02 PM

This question has been asked many times on many Different Forums. And I alway answer with the same person

Jack White of the White Stripes.

Just for the sole reason because he was Rated at #17 on Rolling stone's Top 100 guitarists of all time list.

I mean they put him in Front of guitarists like : Mark Knopfler, Buddy Guy, Brian May ,Frank Zappa ,Joe Perry ,Eddie Van Halen,David Gilmour,Ritchie Blackmore, and tons of other guitarists who he doesn't even belong in the same sentance with

That whole list is a Joke, on the list of all time Greats they put Jack White at #17 and Van Halen at #70 and David Gilmour at # 82 Gimme a break.

I know that he is a popular guitarist, but as far as actual playing skill goes, there are alot of GMCer's who are better players than him IMO.

Posted by: Animosity Nov 5 2007, 12:06 PM

Malmsteen! That guy has such a huge ego it makes me dislike all of his playing. I think he creates way to much hype for himself!

Posted by: FretDancer69 Nov 5 2007, 12:15 PM

you got a good point there.

Posted by: shammy Nov 5 2007, 12:18 PM

Slammer I agree with you, but it's not jack's fault that R.S. is so damn trendy and about the now. He certainly shredded when he came to boston, on acoustic and electric, jammed his ass off. Great guitar player, bamboozeled by some stupid writer, I agree.

Posted by: Ryan Nov 5 2007, 12:18 PM

I would say Slash. Slash is a great player. Yes he is very great. I like him alot, but people just when they think of guitar. There always like "WOOT SLASH YEAH".

All is playing really is the same stuff to me though. He really never changes it up. If I would compare him to another guitarist, say Zakk Wylde. His fingers woudl fall off. IMO the only thing that made him big, was the band. Not himself, but the band as a whole!!

World known guitarists, and very famous guitarists, only are really there because of the band as a whole. Paul Gilbert would smash Slash in a second, and so would Malmsteen (yes he does have a big ego BUT HE CAN PLAY). Slash wouldnt stand a second against none of the solo guitarists!

Again though. This stuff is all personal preference. Someone who likes rock/blues, would go with slash way before malmsteen and Paul, BUT. Skill, techqnuie, and technical stuff. Slash is just lost!!

Posted by: Slammer Nov 5 2007, 12:27 PM

Yeah it's really RS, because... Anyone who plays guitar or actually knows a thing or two about guitar players
will say thats a joke, I didn't mean to go down so hard on him, but the thing that bothers me is most regular people will pick that up and since it's written by RS, they'll Respect it and think omg JW is better than all these guys, when really that isn't the case.

well like I told JVM once in Chat... If JW is #17 Marcus Lavendell should be #1

Posted by: Animosity Nov 5 2007, 12:27 PM

This thread makes me sad. It's like a war between guitarists! Wouldn't it be nice if we could ALL just jam together in perfect harmony, and not judge each other?

Posted by: spdalton Nov 5 2007, 12:31 PM

Hrm, they are all hard to compare really.
Some people would say that speed and technical ability is a measure of skill, which certainly it is, but when it comes to liking music it is also very much about how good they are at writing songs.

Kurt Cobain couldn't shred to save his life, but he was awesome at writing songs.
People like the aforementioned Chris Impelliterri however can shred a million notes a minute but what they're playing isn't very musical or 'song' like.

It's like comparing apples and oranges.

That said, there definitely are some overrated guitarists out there but who they are just depends on what you would classify as a good guitarist.

I personally really don't see much in the guitarists from Dragonforce and other "speed metal" bands as it's as if they're just trying to fit as many notes into a song as possible to prove the point that, yes, that can play damn fast.

Gimme BB King any day

And I agree, the rolling stones top 500 guitarists list is a complete joke. I had never really read any of their magazines before, but after seeing that list it has completely removed the thought of ever doing so out of my mind.

Posted by: FretDancer69 Nov 5 2007, 12:32 PM

this definately wasnt my intention/purpose...

Posted by: Animosity Nov 5 2007, 12:35 PM

I love you.

Posted by: spdalton Nov 5 2007, 12:41 PM

Posted by: JVM Nov 5 2007, 12:46 PM

I do think there are a lot of popular guitarists out there that are neither musically or technically talented though, that would be an over rated guitarist in my book.

Posted by: FretDancer69 Nov 5 2007, 12:50 PM

what about Dimebag? I never really got into Pantera that much, i knew the dude was good, but i find him very Overrated, specially by Dean Guitars...

Posted by: botoxfox Nov 5 2007, 06:06 PM

Jimi Hendrix

It's just that he's on top of almost every goddamn best guitarist list...
He may be the most influential guitarist of all time, but the best? Come on...

Posted by: The Uncreator Nov 5 2007, 07:34 PM

to clear the kurt cobain thing up, im not saying he is overated because im comparing his technical ability to anything or anyone, im saying that, because out of all the credit he gets, i still find his music uninspiring and uncreative, and people (where i live) always hail him as some guitar god who changed the world.

Posted by: lefty01 Nov 5 2007, 07:42 PM

That is because, he died young...same with Hendrix. I feel the same about Dimebag. He died in a very, very tragic way. Dime was a good player, but he (and the others), are worshiped, because they were taken away so early.

Posted by: Pavel Nov 5 2007, 08:56 PM

Hahahaha that's why i stay out of topics like these Turns into a cat-fight!

Posted by: botoxfox Nov 5 2007, 09:03 PM

Yeah, that's very true...
And BTW, Kirk Hammett is way overrated too...

Posted by: Eat-Sleep-andJam Nov 5 2007, 09:12 PM

Another Thing. I know its been mentioned but Herman and Sam from Dragonforce are a bad influence. They put their only good song "Through the Fire and Flames " on Guitar Hero 3 and made it look so hard. Which then makes anyone who has ever played guitar hero think that they are soooooooooo great. I hate guitar hero 3 and its another thing just like Rolling Stone. If guitar hero 3 was to make a valid choice for a last song on their stupid videogame it should be Tender Surrender. I hate when everyone thinks DragonForce is so amazing and I think they are wayyyyyyy overrated.


Slash- If theres anyone who doesnt deserve to be bagged on in this thread I think its Slash.
Songs like Sweet Child O Mine and Welcome to the Jungle made me love this guy. I dont quite understand what everyone has against him ?

Posted by: mattacuk Nov 5 2007, 09:43 PM

Yes this another one of those topics i choose to play safe on due to music being so very personal to each indididual

Posted by: blindwillie Nov 5 2007, 09:47 PM

+1

But then again. There are so many really good guitarists that never "makes it", so maybe the influential bit is how we should judge them. Or maybe if they create great music, like White Stripes do.
To me it's the music they make that judges a musician. Hendrix fail there too.



+1 to that too.

Posted by: fkalich Nov 5 2007, 09:48 PM

I give you crap because of your metal thing, but I know you are a smart guy Uncreator. One should not define best narrowly. A lot of things go into best, and some of them are hard to put your finger on.

edit: I take it back. I misread what you said. No, you are looking at this too narrowly. Dying early helps create the immortal marble man, but I know he was really popular before he died, that was a darn good band, may not be your taste, but that does not make him overrated.

Some very simple guitarists are quite good. Some extremely skilled ones are banal, boring.

edit: I am not saying Kurt was a simple guitarist. I was thinking more of Green Day, who did a lot of great stuff prior to the past few CD's, as a prime example. Kurt was more technically skilled than that, but mostly he had something, and it came though in his music. Hard to put your finger on it, but it was there.

You bring up something that i have noticed, living in a college town. Kids here tend to listen to 80's, even 70's music. It surprises me, but I hear it. I hear some new stuff, but seems like most of what I hear is older. Very little metal. And thank God, rap is finally headed to the grave, at least around here.

Posted by: lefty01 Nov 5 2007, 11:12 PM

Well, we really cannot get into the "rap" thing. That is not music.

Posted by: Pavel Nov 6 2007, 12:44 AM

Finally another guy thinking like me! Thumbs up, man!

Posted by: ZeCoyote Nov 6 2007, 01:34 AM

Are we talking about guitarists or musicians ?

If being the best guitarist is playing 64 notes per seconds with all sorts of technics, no thanks.

Kobain is certainly not the best guitarist but he was a true musician and artist. His melodies were so simple but so original. That's the signature of a great musician.

Everybody can play Kurt Cobain's riffs. But who can reinvent new riffs that stands the decades.

Same thing with Slash's bluesy solos and Knopfler except that the last is ALSO a virtuoso

Posted by: lefty01 Nov 6 2007, 01:52 AM

Well, we do need to stick together.

Posted by: Fsgdjv Nov 6 2007, 02:07 AM

I personally don't think Kurt Kobain, Matt Bellamy or Slash (etc) are overrated. Sure, they may not be Steve Vai or Rusty Cooley, but they can make their guitars sing (and that Kurt could do that with his technique amazing), and that's what music is about. I doubt that anybody thinks any of those are the technically best guitarists out there, but there might be a few who likes them a lot for their music. Because, in my opinion, it's not the technique that matters, it's how good it sounds, nothing else.

If I would choose someone to call overrated, I would pick a shredder like Rusty Cooley or someone like that, but I suppose that's because I don't understand their music, so I won't.

EDIT: Or well, since people are saying rap isn't music, I'll pick Rusty Cooley as the worst guitarist in the world, sounds like fun! Who's with me?!

Posted by: Erik Johnson Nov 6 2007, 02:33 AM

Slash is one of my favorite guitarists. It's not because he's an amazing player and super fast. I don't care how fast he can play. His riffs are amazing, even if they never change. Slash has a sound that almost can't be duplicated, and I think his blues-rock style is superb. I'd have to say Slash is overrated as the best guitarist ever, but he definately is top three if not the top in my eyes. He just has this amazing tone..

Anyway, that's just my opinion. Keep going everyone! I love debates.

// Erik

EDIT:

Didn't see what was said about rap... I've gotta say that I agree. I just don't see rap as music. If it's just repeating drums and a guy talking, I just can't fathom it being music, sorry.

Posted by: Pavel Nov 6 2007, 02:37 AM

If he's the worst than GMC should be closed long ago.

Posted by: SLASH91 Nov 6 2007, 02:38 AM

HOW DARE YOU????!!?











hehe,JK, Slash is overated as a guitar player. He is an awesome songwriter, though.

Posted by: Pavel Nov 6 2007, 02:41 AM

That's the interesting thing about it! You pointed it out. I'll just say it my way: when we listen to a guitarist - we always talk about some melody. I don't hear a melody in guy's talking, not because i am deaf, but because there is no melody. And music without melody just kinda can't exist, don't you think?

Posted by: Animosity Nov 6 2007, 02:49 AM

WTF?! Man, where do you live? Can I come live with you?!!?









Seriously...

Posted by: SLASH91 Nov 6 2007, 02:49 AM

I despise rap,hiphop, and any other kind of rap influenced music (Korn, Linkin Park,etc), but I don't think that it's not a type of music. Not trying to start an argument, thats just the way I see it

Posted by: Robin Nov 6 2007, 02:53 AM

Thumbs up for that one.

Posted by: Erik Johnson Nov 6 2007, 02:54 AM

Well I agree with that also... it is a type of music, I guess, but I don't know.

I don't really see it as a classification of music.

There's music, poems, literature, and many other things, then there's rap. It's its own category in my eyes--even outside of music.

EDIT: Rusty Cooley.. hmm. I wonder about him. I don't like the fact that sometimes he's only about technique. I don't care if you can play something at 500 BPM that no one else can understand. I like flow and tone.

However my opinion on Cooley is completely biased, as I've only seen and heard him doing some rediculiously fast shred lick, nothing rhythm-based.

Posted by: Fsgdjv Nov 6 2007, 02:56 AM

Maybe not deaf, but I'm seriously starting to think you're tone deaf.

Posted by: Gen Nov 6 2007, 02:59 AM

+1

Posted by: Erik Johnson Nov 6 2007, 02:59 AM

SO ANYWAY.

Can anyone think of anymore guitarists that are overrated? :cough:

Posted by: Pavel Nov 6 2007, 03:08 AM

You should check his Outworld stuff: www.outworldband.com

Posted by: Erik Johnson Nov 6 2007, 03:11 AM

I can't right now; I'm at school!

I will when I get home though.

Like I said though, can anyone think of anymore overrated guitarists?

Posted by: Pavel Nov 6 2007, 03:16 AM

Well, i guess if Rusty Cooley is overrated - and the world barely even knows who he is, we can easily lock the topic because some members here are starting to directly offend other members and move away from facts and polite behavior.

Posted by: Beaulieu04 Nov 6 2007, 03:19 AM

Personally i think Herman Li and Sam Totman are way overrated, they appear to be very fast but there extremely sloppy at times and all of there music sounds the same.

Yngwie Malmsteen is way too big headed, hes technically amazing but again all of his music sounds the same and after a while it just gets boring.

Dave Mustaine i think is quite overrated

Rusty Cooley again sick-in-the-head good technically but his music sounds horrendous.

Kirk Hammett is a good creator of music but technically hes not that great, and he uses the same scales over and over.

So basically there are good creators but not so so great technically and the amazingly technical but musically horrible. Thats just my opinion

Posted by: Erik Johnson Nov 6 2007, 03:22 AM

Yup, there are different styles of music, all-in-all. There's also different styles of guitar playing: Technical, Heavy, Slow/Soothing, Symphonic, etc.

I'd have to say in my opinion, mixtures rarely happen and guitar players are normally strictly one-way. This is one debate that will never end, but is great to compete in, as it will never end. It's all based on opinion.

I can't wait to hear other people's thoughts!

EDIT: Fixed a few misspellings.

Posted by: SLASH91 Nov 6 2007, 03:26 AM

Yeah, I agree with most of those except Rusty cooley ( never heard any of his music ) and Dave Mustain. I think he has really good technique, much better that Kirk Hammet's. I think that Metallica could have been much better if they hade kept Dave, but then again, we wouldn't have Megadeth.

Posted by: Andrew Cockburn Nov 6 2007, 03:31 AM

Ok, this was always going to be a contentious topic and I have been watching it closely.

It is ok to give your opinion in a respectful way about why you think a guitarist is overrated - after all it is your opinion and no one can take that away form you. However, every guitarist that someone hates, someone else reveres and we have to be respectful of that.

Blanket statements to the effect of "Guitarist X totally sucks and his music is pure garbage" are BOUND to offend someone, so please be careful in your phrasing.

The flip side of the coin is that every guitarist that someone reveres, someone else hates. If someone dislikes your favorite guitarist, that is not a personal insult, please don't take it as such as long as they are respectful and give their reasoning.

Please lets keep this polite guys.

Posted by: Fsgdjv Nov 6 2007, 03:31 AM

Yeah, I mean wtf is up with people claiming to know what is and isn't music?

Posted by: Spiderusalem Nov 6 2007, 03:33 AM

no?

Posted by: botoxfox Nov 6 2007, 03:35 AM

Well, if you want a definition of music:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music

Posted by: Spiderusalem Nov 6 2007, 03:41 AM

I think you guys are judging dragonforce too harshly.

Just take a look at this http://youtube.com/watch?v=WhSL_LUyLCk and tell me they're not that great

Posted by: Pavel Nov 6 2007, 03:46 AM

Isn't it amazing????

Posted by: Beaulieu04 Nov 6 2007, 03:48 AM

Thats been recorded and 'tweaked' though if you watch a coupel of videos with herman or sam or with dragon force live they are pretty sloppy at times :S

But saying that i do quite like that song and trail of broken hearts is awesome \m/ \m/ haha

Posted by: Arrival Nov 6 2007, 03:48 AM

Well, I guess I'll make a little list for over and underrated guitarists as well, in my opinion. Disclaimer - I may or may not like the respective bands of each guitarist regardless of how I categorize them. It's not a popularity contest people!

Overrated:
Angus Young - I just don't see any creativity whatsoever.
Allman
Tom Morello - I agree that he is innovative, but he gets too much credit for that.
Malmsteen - He doesn't play music, he plays a math equation.

Edit: totally didn't see the underrated thread, I'll move those haha.

Posted by: Pavel Nov 6 2007, 03:53 AM

I do! Love some of his songs! Especially Manhattan and SRV!

Posted by: Spiderusalem Nov 6 2007, 03:54 AM

wait, thats not what the song really sounds like? no way !

I'm just bitter I guess. This girl tried talking down to me saying that Herman was the new best guitarist ever and i was like *c0ugh cough Paul Gilbert Pwnes all c0ugh*

Posted by: Arrival Nov 6 2007, 03:55 AM

Haha, someone told me they heard Manhattan on the Weather Channel. (that's a 24-hour national weather information channel in USA for you guys across the pond)

Posted by: Unleash-The-Shred Nov 6 2007, 04:05 AM

Agreed.



I don't agree with YJM, Buckethead, and Chris Impelliterri, even slash for that matter. They all worked towards the fame they have and are definitely not overrated imo.

Posted by: Spiderusalem Nov 6 2007, 04:06 AM

ah dont tell them that! now our friends abroad are gonna figure out how boring we are!

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Nov 6 2007, 04:18 AM

Well as Andrew said - we have been keeping an eye this one...

...partly because bashing Cobain and rap is what other forums eat for breakfast (and who wants be like the others? Kurt or Cooley certainly didn't want to)

...partly to see if gmc:ers could keep this friendly - after all we are all here to discuss things, and this topic can sure generate some interesting discussions. GMC:ers almost could.

It struck me I should lock this thread and restart a new one - just for the fun of it.

It would be nice if we could have the exact same discussion but without any bashing at all - if you want to convince me that Rap isn't music - I need to hear some stronger arguments than I have read here!

Topic continued http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_forum/index.php?showtopic=8277.