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GMC Forum _ Practicing (Muris) _ Fusion
Posted by: Muris Varajic Aug 5 2008, 11:14 PM
Ok, here we are. 
In this topic we'll talk about Fusion,
share our thoughts and visions of it.
Please feel free to post a backings or even your takes
that might be good as a Fusion example,
I'll try to find some backings as well.
Lets roll!!
Here's a backing No 1,
give it a shot!
GMC_Fusion_BT_1.mp3 ( 5.59MB )
: 752
Posted by: Caelumamittendum Aug 5 2008, 11:16 PM
Hey Muris.
Cool topic you've started here.
As I said in the other topic, if you want to play "outside" you need to really do it with confidence and make it sound like it was your intention.
Nice backing, by the way, I'll see what I can do to it some time soon.
Posted by: Muris Varajic Aug 5 2008, 11:20 PM
Playing outside MUST be your intention,
otherwise you have small chances
to go back inside smoothly.
Oh btw,this backing track might be too long for playing,
do it shorter if you wish,no need for full track at all!
Posted by: Siggum Aug 5 2008, 11:21 PM
Smooth backing, did you make this Muris? but great topic by the way, il see if i can put something together
Posted by: Caelumamittendum Aug 5 2008, 11:22 PM
otherwise you have small chances
to go back inside smoothly.
Oh btw,this backing track might be too long for playing,
do it shorter if you wish,no need for full track at all!
Yeah, sure, getting a nice 5 minutes take would take up too much of my precious time!
And yeah, it must be your intention - that was pretty much what I meant.
Posted by: chast Aug 5 2008, 11:23 PM
That's some grooy backing Muris 
I'm gonna jam to it tomorrow, and see if I can sound fusionish 
Posted by: Muris Varajic Aug 5 2008, 11:25 PM
No,not mine,I got it from some forum when we were
doing uploads as well,can't recall which forum tho
Still I hope we can use it for this.
I'm gonna jam to it tomorrow, and see if I can sound fusionish
Looking forward to it,take your time!
Posted by: axelsson Aug 6 2008, 12:31 PM
what modes do you recommend when playing fusion muris?
Posted by: Muris Varajic Aug 6 2008, 12:35 PM
You can use all of them generally
but it depends of backing track as well.
For the backing I provided you can go for A Dorian,
A Aeolian flat 5 over F7 chord
and maybe A Melodic Minor over E7 chord.
edit:typo
Posted by: axelsson Aug 6 2008, 12:49 PM
Okay, so I use A dorian and some notes "out of the scale" here and there and it should sound pretty decent aye? I'm a total noob when it comes to fusion but I'll try to provide you with a video or two of me playing along with that BT cuz it would be nice with some feedback
Posted by: Muris Varajic Aug 6 2008, 02:28 PM
Yes,that should work fine.
But just be careful with "out" notes,
let your ear guides you for a start.
Looking forward to your takes tho!
Posted by: Joe Kataldo Aug 6 2008, 02:32 PM
Nice backing mate, enjoying jamming on it
Posted by: Ognjen Protic Aug 6 2008, 02:56 PM
Great Funk!
Posted by: chast Aug 6 2008, 05:55 PM
Hey,
What do you think about learning arpeggios ? I know they are very important in Jazz and in general it's also good to know arpeggios, but it is as important as in Jazz ?
Posted by: Muris Varajic Aug 6 2008, 07:25 PM
Sure,arpeggios are great tool in any kind of music,
specially in Jazz and Fusion, go for them.
Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Aug 6 2008, 07:36 PM
Kicking topic Muris! 
I am off jamming now!
Posted by: wrk Sep 7 2008, 12:38 AM
Oh .. i missed this topic. Good one !!
Thanks Muris, great backing track .. one day i will upload a take on this .. one day
I recently bought the Larry Carlton style track from bluesjamtracks. It is really known already through Guthrie Govan, but i think it is a good backing to jam over. There are so many different takes on youtube available .. a good source to steal some licks and get some ideas.
Posted by: Muris Varajic Sep 7 2008, 09:20 AM
Absolutely wrk,learning new licks from other player is the best way
to expand your own lick library.
And it's not even stealing cause you'll never play it the same
and in same contents,you'll add piece of yourself to it
with some of your ideas.
Posted by: wrk Sep 7 2008, 11:06 AM
yes .. stealing in this case is more like to get inspired ..
I think most experiences i have are more rock influenced, means when improvising over backing tracks i somehow see on the fretboard possible notes to play mostly based on pentatonics with some passing notes. I feel kind of free to move and substitute these shapes in different keys or cord progression.
I don't have this instant view by now with complete scales. To play the scales up and down is not the problem, but to take parts out of the scale and connect them with each other is still causing a lot of mistakes .. For that it is really helpful to have some good, but not too complex fusion style backing tracks with different examples to get ideas of the sound.
What is helpful as well is to find some sort of theme melodies to start from while improvising and to regular come back ... it gives a bit more structure and a kind of "secure area"
I hope here will come together a good collection of fusion backings, that will be great!! If possible with transcribed chords ..
Posted by: Muris Varajic Sep 7 2008, 11:27 AM
And in a meanwhile feel free to post your take over backing I provided here,
would love to hear your ideas over it wrk!
Posted by: Muris Varajic Sep 10 2008, 10:50 PM
So,do we have any takes over the backing??
Posted by: wrk Sep 10 2008, 11:03 PM
sorry, not by now
... but it will come ... promised !!
Posted by: ErikEklund Oct 31 2008, 11:30 PM
Just found this thread and I am definitely going to give this cool bakingtrack a try
I have started to play much more fusion lately and I just finished your fusion jam intermediate and I´m working on the advanced level right now
thanks for the BT, Fusion Rocks!
Posted by: Muris Varajic Nov 1 2008, 01:11 AM
Great to hear Eric,I'm waiting for your take then!
Oh,and please post your takes on those lessons
as well when you get a chance,would love to see/hear it.
Posted by: ErikEklund Nov 1 2008, 11:30 AM
Oh,and please post your takes on those lessons
as well when you get a chance,would love to see/hear it.
Of course I can post my takes on the fusion jam as well, would love to hear what you think of my playing
I am still working on the advanced level and since I am not an advanced player that will take some more time for me to nail all those tricky chops
But I can post my take on the intermediate level later today maybe Posted by: Muris Varajic Nov 1 2008, 05:42 PM
I am still working on the advanced level and since I am not an advanced player that will take some more time for me to nail all those tricky chops
But I can post my take on the intermediate level later today maybe Take your time,no need to rush at all,
and try to record video,tho audio only would work just fine.
Posted by: ErikEklund Nov 14 2008, 07:43 PM
So here it is, my take on your fusion jam advanced
Since I am not an advanced player, this was really hard for me and I know it is not perfect but I did my best
Ps. the last lick was a little bit too hard for me so I played the lick from the intermediate fusion jam ^^
Posted by: Muris Varajic Nov 14 2008, 08:20 PM
That was great!!
I see you're struggling with some licks
but you gave it a shot and I appreciate that!
Keep working on it and eventually try to apply more vibrato,
specially on longer and bended notes,everything else was really good.
Posted by: ErikEklund Nov 14 2008, 08:29 PM
Thanks Muris I´m very glad (and a bit honored) that you liked my take
I agree 100% on what you said, and since this was very hard to me, it would probobly take a lot more time before I can play it really well and add some nice vibrato and that stuff. This lesson really helped me out with improving my tapping and timing, really useful stuff
Posted by: Muris Varajic Nov 14 2008, 08:30 PM
I agree 100% on what you sad, and since this was very hard to me, it would probobly take a lot more time before I can play it really well and add some nice vibrato and that stuff. This lesson really helped me out with improving my tapping and timing, really useful stuff
You did good job and you're very welcome,
keep us updated!
Posted by: Gaf Nov 17 2008, 06:32 PM
Hello Muris!
I have a zillion questions regarding fusion/prog chord sequences. I hope you'll be patient with me as I still have alot of holes in my intermediate theory.
I have a general question on how to approach soloing over a Sus4 triad. I assume you would choose mixolydian mode and the pents and arps that are found in its corresponding major scale. I assume there are also restrictions due to how the sus is used? Say substitution for a dom chord or resolution to major chord, walking out to another key etc.
I have a more specific case say for instance, I love the intro to Sponge (Randy Brecker) F#sus/F, Fsus/F, Ebsus/F. But other than using the chord tones and bits of the mixolydian scale (F#, F and Eb) I don't seem to be getting anywhere with trying to construct convincing extended runs.
Do you have any suggestions as to how you would attack this particular vamp? Or insight into sus4 passages in general. Thanks so much. I'm learning a tonne from your lessons. Cheers.
John
Posted by: Muris Varajic Nov 18 2008, 12:12 AM
Hi John.
Speaking of Brecker Brothers,their work has a lot more freedom
compared with what we traditionally call Fusion.
And progression you mentioned is just like that,
notes of those chords and the sound of them
actually begs for clusters,clash notes etc.
But if you wanna keep it as simple as possible,here are few suggestions.
F Locrian over F#sus4/F.
Now,we look at F Locrian as a 7th degree of Gb Ionian(major scale).
I wouldn't do it that way here at all,
I would rather think of F Phrygian with altered(flat) 5th
cause you can stay on F Phrygian for next 2 chords,Fsus4 and Ebsus4/F.
So all the only extra note that you need for F#sus4/F is note Cb(
.
And you can even try with regular F Phrygian with note Cb included,
which will take to chromatic line Bb,B,C and Db.
And of course you can always use Fm pentatonic,
there will be few clash notes but if you do it on purpose
and resolve wisely it'll be just fine.
Thanks for questions,I hope this helps.
Posted by: kjutte Nov 18 2008, 12:17 AM
Small input:
Sus chords good for fusion? I have been wondering about good fusion chord choosings too.
Posted by: Muris Varajic Nov 18 2008, 12:25 AM
Sus chords good for fusion? I have been wondering about good fusion chord choosings too.
Absolutely,sus4 works very nice for all kinds of styles when used propertly,
specially for ala Jazz styles which is Fusion of course.
Posted by: kjutte Nov 18 2008, 01:40 AM
specially for ala Jazz styles which is Fusion of course.
What about a fairly advanced chord progression in fusion? Most of the fusion I heard is fairly Cm7 - Fmaj sounding, but this combination doesn't seem advanced at all.
So, again, what would you do?
Posted by: Muris Varajic Nov 18 2008, 01:50 AM
So, again, what would you do?
Everything is allowed indeed,list would be too large
if I start typing all the things(chords) you could use.
6th chords,7th chords,9th chords,augg chords,dim chords,slash chords etc...
Posted by: kjutte Nov 18 2008, 01:58 AM
if I start typing all the things(chords) you could use.
6th chords,7th chords,9th chords,augg chords,dim chords,slash chords etc...
Thought jazz had modulation like that. Guess fusion is huge aswell
Posted by: Muris Varajic Nov 18 2008, 02:02 AM
Fusion is almost the same as modern Jazz,do as you please,kind of.
Posted by: kjutte Nov 18 2008, 02:54 AM
Quick off topic question too if I may
Is harmonization thoery knowedge important? personally I think it sounds like crap and I've had no real use of it yet
Posted by: Muris Varajic Nov 18 2008, 06:37 AM
Is harmonization thoery knowedge important? personally I think it sounds like crap and I've had no real use of it yet
Hmm,I not quite sure what harmonization theory is,you think of harmony in general?
Anyhow,every kind of knowledge is good,same goes for harmonization theory or what else,
perhaps you just haven't messed enough with more complex progressions etc.
Posted by: kjutte Nov 18 2008, 01:32 PM
Anyhow,every kind of knowledge is good,same goes for harmonization theory or what else,
perhaps you just haven't messed enough with more complex progressions etc.
Actually, nevermind. I mistook this for something else
thanks though muris!
Posted by: Gaf Nov 18 2008, 03:30 PM
Hello Muris!
Thanks for your quick reply I think your thought process will help me a lot, I'll give it a whirl.
I find it clumsy to keep changing scales when playing through changes I'm not familiar with. Is there an easy way to find scales with "common ground" when attacking an unfamiliar sequence, or should I be writing out the chord tones and trying to find altered scales with the most in common?
Do you have any practice routines that you used to use when studying new harmonies?
I've heard of passing notes and clash tones before but what are clusters? Is it like how a pianist would think about note choice? Do you have an example?
I'll have more questions regarding the next 2 sections of the song (Sponge) when I've explored what you have suggested and feel comfortable with the groove. Thanks for the help. Cheers.
John
Posted by: Gaf Nov 25 2008, 06:29 PM
Heya Muris,
Ok the B section (Sponge):
The progression bounces back and forth between Eb/A (Eb with b5) Db/A (Db with #5) for 2 bars then Eb/B (Eb with #5) Db/B (Db with b5) for two bars with a rather bouncy unstable feel. Over the first two bars the horns are playing a motif in F and the second bars the motif is in G.
So Eb F G Ab A Bb Db and Ab Bb B Db Eb F G are what we have to work with (hope that's all correct).
Would these chords imply a hybrid scale composed of half/whole diminished and Lydian augmented?
Do you have any suggestions on how to attack this from a lick or sequence point of view rather than chord tones? Can you see something simple in this mix maybe something from the altered dominant implications? I haven’t used Melodic minor enough to know what I can do yet.
Have you any thoughts on my previous post? Again, thanks so much for your help. Cheers.
John
Posted by: Muris Varajic Nov 25 2008, 08:46 PM
Hi John.
Here's what I've done so far to understand some things
related to tricky harmonies,playing over them etc.
First of all, listen to what composer has played over it.
learn every single note and do good and deep analyze.
This approach is very useful it would be totally wrong
to try anything without knowing what man who composed it
played over same progression.
And I'm not talking only about main theme,brass hits etc,
I'm talking about solos,improvisations etc.
Once you figure out what they are doing
your eyes will be much wider open for your own
approach to the same matter.
I could have answered to your questions more specificly
but I would need to write a book about
everything that you can play over progressions
that you mentioned,
that's gray territory,almost all weapons are allowed until it really hurts.
Posted by: Gaf Nov 26 2008, 02:11 PM
Heya Muris,
Thanks for your reply. I know my questions are not the easy type, believe me if I I could find a fusion teacher, or any teacher for that matter in my city that had experience with the progressions I listen to I would not be bothering you with these questions.
I have scoured the web, read many books on harmony have played for 16 years yet still can't find the info I seek. I don't want you to do the song for me but I found your answer to my first post opened a few doors for me. Remember I am largely self taught so obvious things to professionsals are not so obvious to me.
Over the first two chords Eb/A, Db/A there are no other hints other than solitary F notes played in a catchy rhythm.
If you could list just two of the ideas for a progression like this, (from the many you hinted at) I would be extremely grateful.
I am really frustrated with my progress here. Again thanks so much and if you are too busy I understand but could you point me to a book, website, or person that may be able to help me. Thanks so much for your time. Cheers.
John
Posted by: Muris Varajic Nov 26 2008, 02:20 PM
Well,progression by itself says what you can play over,
at least it shows one pattern.
Say it's key of Fm,which is not,
bass is playing A and that is major 3rd.
That leads us to logical conclusion,
play Fm scale with added major 3rd,
notes are F,G,Ab(Db chord has it),A(it's in bass),Bb,C,Db and Eb.
Now,be very careful when playing this A note,
it should be playing very short since it's just passing note,
it's note in bass but bass makes all the confusion there.
And to add even more spice,
try an alternate Fm pentatonic with this added A note,
F,Ab,A,Bb,C and Eb,
jam a bit and see the results.
As for books and sites,I never read any OR searched for,
all I did was listening and analizing,
so we're in the same boat more or less,self taught.
Posted by: Gaf Nov 26 2008, 02:43 PM
Brilliant! Thanks Muris.
I think I was focused too much on the trees not on the forest (Ab Major with added b2?). I'm starting to see a recurring theme of altered Fm pents in this song .
Thanks so much. I'll practice and see if I can do the same thing with the next section (C section) write my analysis and hopefully you can tell me if I'm catching on and maybe give me another idea to work on.
Thanks alot!
John
Posted by: Muris Varajic Nov 26 2008, 02:54 PM
Sure thing,keep analyzing it and we will talk more about it.
Posted by: Caelumamittendum Nov 29 2008, 04:54 PM
Alright, Murisman! I tried recording something over the backing you first uploaded. It was just 100% improvised, so there are quite a lot of weird things. I'd like a few comments, if you wouldn't mind.
Will have the video up on youtube in a few moments:
PS: Sorry about looking kinda ill and all... but the fact is... I am a bit ill! 
Posted by: Caelumamittendum Nov 29 2008, 05:47 PM
Should be up now. Not sure if it's working properly.
Posted by: Muris Varajic Nov 29 2008, 06:25 PM
That was pretty nice take!
I see that it's fully improvised which I liked a lot,
some very tasty licks inside.
Now,chord progression is what you should think about more.
You've been playing A Dorian most of the time which fits nice
EXCEPT over F7 chord,you play notes F# and E while F chord has notes F and Eb.
What I'm saying is,try to play arpeggios here and there,
play over chords notes.
Scale wise,it'd be some sort of A Aeolian flat 5(A,B,C,D,Eb,F,and G) over F7 chord.
Also there's E7 or E7/+9 chord,not sure atm.
Lay down on chord notes,add more out of scale notes
and resolve them to nearby scale note.
And try to sing along as you play.
sing something in advance and then try to repeat that with guitar,
you'll come up with some nice melodies and rhythmic patterns.
Posted by: Caelumamittendum Nov 29 2008, 06:37 PM
Thanks, great advice, Muris! Will try and do some new takes at another time. Not feeling too well right now (figured out it was food poisoning)
Posted by: Muris Varajic Nov 29 2008, 07:58 PM
Ahh,sorry to hear!
Wish you fast and safe recovery tho,
I hope it's nothing serious.
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