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Posted by: Vinman56 Jan 13 2015, 11:13 PM

Hey everyone my name is Vinny and I have been playing on and off for about nine years. I picked it up when i was about fifteen and when i started, I played basically every day for hours at a time. I was in high school, what else did i have to do...homework? The only problem is i have never taken a lesson and everything i play is basically learned by ear. I don't have a real good understanding of what I play which bothers me and since my playing time has dropped off dramatically in the past few years, I have sort of hit a plateau in my progression. I want to seriously get back into it and I look forward to getting to know some people who share my love for music. I hope that by joining this group I can develop that understanding that i was never able to grasp on my own. Hopefully with some of your help I can take my playing to the next level.

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Jan 13 2015, 11:18 PM

It is awesome to have you here Vinny!

Learning by ear is one of the best ways to do it - so don't stop!

However I do understand that you need to balance your skills with some theory as well - was this what you had in mind?

One of the big advantages with this, is that once you have transcribed a lick that you like, you can understand where it is coming from theoretically - and quickly adapt it and use it in your own material.

Posted by: Bogdan Radovic Jan 13 2015, 11:29 PM

Welcome to GMC Vinny!

Whenever I think about it it hits me how much you can learn passively, without having an instruments in your hands, just by hanging out with musicians so it is really great that you have joined the forum. I have also reacted on you mentioning that you learned everything "by ear" - like it is a bad thing? On contrary, those skills are golden and what you feel you're missing should be easy to add once you have good "ear training" foundations.

See you around the forum

Posted by: Vinman56 Jan 13 2015, 11:33 PM

Exactly, and like i said ive tried to learn the theory on my own but without any guidance or direction it can be pretty difficult to retain the information.

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Jan 13 2015, 11:44 PM

For sure! Are there any scales (etc) you are able to recognize in the songs you transcribe (=learn by ear)? For example, one common scale is the "minor pentatonic" scale.

Posted by: Vinman56 Jan 14 2015, 01:58 AM

ya occasionally i can pick out the major scale in a song but the minor pentatonic is definitely the most recognizable. that probably the one scale I truly have down solid to where i can play it anywhere on the neck and know where i am. I am pretty shaky with most of the other scales. Just havent put the time in which is what i would like to start doing now. looking forward to working with you and the other instructors

Posted by: Hajduk Jan 14 2015, 07:53 AM

Welcome To GMC

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Jan 14 2015, 09:47 AM

Ok, thanks a lot for getting back to me. I think I understand your (musical) situation!

One thought: It's good that you can recognise the minor pentatonic all over the neck. Learning any scale all over the neck is an excellent starting point for learning the other ones.

Have you ever spotted notes that are often played in combination with the pentatonic scale - yet they do not really "belong" to that scale? Which ones?

Posted by: Monica Gheorghevici Jan 14 2015, 02:27 PM

Hi and welcome to GMC! See you around the forum

Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Jan 14 2015, 03:03 PM

Hi Vinny! Welcome to GMC! I just commented your take at REC. Please check it out! About theory, I basically recommend you to start checking this stuff and off course feel free to ask me about the things you need help in order to get the most of it.

http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_forum/index.php?showtopic=42832&view=findpost&p=699881

http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_forum/index.php?showtopic=47852

Posted by: Vinman56 Jan 14 2015, 10:09 PM

yes actually. like if im palying an A minor pentatonic i have noticed that i can throw in the F# which isnt part of it but it sounds like it works. and also the D# which makes it the pentaonic blues i believe. But im not sure why the F# works there i just know that it sounds very cool lol.


Thanks Gabriel i will definitley look into this.

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Jan 14 2015, 11:40 PM

Very cool observations!

When you throw in the F# you get the dorian sound:

http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/scalegenerator

If you compare with the dorian scale you will notice only one note is different (B is added) - but that note is not really typical/characteristic to the dorian sound anyway.

http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/scalegenerator

When you throw in the D# you get the pentatonic blues indeed.

So it's safe to say you already know several scales. The next step could either be to learn to quickly find those extra notes in all the positions of the pentatonic scale (which you already master).

Alternatively you could explore completely new scales / sounds just by adding one or two notes to the pentatonic scale!

I like to learn new scales this way as I find it much faster and more enjoyable, compared to memorizing a million notes all over the fretboard without really understanding why.

Posted by: Vinman56 Jan 15 2015, 12:09 AM

ok, so youre saying use the pentatonic as my base to build off of. makes a lot of sense thanks

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Jan 15 2015, 12:20 AM

Exactly! Because: your goal should be to learn how the new scales sound, this is much more useful than learning how they "look". Since you already know the pentatonic scale very well, it will be easy for you to recognize new scales - if they just consist of a scale you are already familiar with + one note.

Here are two more examples, both will give you the aeolian (or minor) type of sound:

A minor pentatonic with added second:

http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/scalegenerator

A minor pentatonic with added minor sixth (b6):
http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/scalegenerator

Sometimes these type of scales with six notes are referred to as "hexatonic". Again, you already know at least two "hexatonic" scales.

If you play around with these, which one do you prefer? Typically you will want to hear the A bass note as backing when you try these out.

Posted by: Bogdan Radovic Jan 15 2015, 12:59 PM

I'd just like to add that when I was starting with theory, learning intervals (2nd, sixth, flat 7th etc) was something which unlocked a lot of subsequent theory for me. It was truly eureka moment for me as a lot of things started making sense from that point. I'm mentioning this since I have noticed Kristofer referred to "adding notes to scales" in the previous posts which included adding 2nd or sixth (b6). Knowing names of intervals and where to find them on the fretboard (rules about their "positions" are universal) makes communication between musicians easier and also remembering some scale related stuff like the extensions of pentatonic scale smoother.

In case you feel the need, you could check out this theory lesson on intervals :
http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_forum/index.php?showtopic=49632&st=0#entry652497