Printable Version of Topic

Posted by: AdamB Feb 12 2015, 04:20 PM

Hi,

So after a long time of talking about it, and planning for it, I'm leaving my job behind for a couple of years to focus on playing the guitar.

I've been a member here (mainly lurking in the darkness) for a long time, so I thought I'd post about what I'm up to, as I haven't yet spoken here much.

I have until now worked as an audio programmer in the video game industry, but decided to take some time out to concentrate on my own games projects and, most importantly, playing the guitar.

I still have some games work to finish on my own projects (I intend to release some of my own games, too! - you can read about my latest game project http://www.pcgamer.com/hack-computer-systems-with-sound-waves-in-indie-platformer-orbit/), but I'm generally going to be spending around 10 hours a day, 5 days a week playing guitar for a good portion of the 2 years I have planned for. Well, if my mental state and/or hands don't give out! It's mainly an experiment to see 1) whether I can handle it over a long period of time, and 2) if it has any positive impact on my skills as a musician.

I have a blog at http://www.6stringsand16bits.com if you'd like to follow my activities. It's a bit bare at the moment, but I intend to fill the currently empty pages with posts about my video game and guitar related goings-on.

Any thoughts/ideas/comments/suggestions are welcomed!

Posted by: Spock Feb 12 2015, 04:49 PM

That's a GREAT idea if you are able to do that. I would love to have that opportunity as my guitar playing is down to only a couple of hours on weekends now - which SUCKS!!!

There is just not enough time in the day for everything I want to accomplish, and being a really good guitarist is one of those things.


Anyway - your post reminded me of this article I read this week from The Onion...


Health Experts Recommend Standing Up At Desk, Leaving Office, Never Coming Back





ROCHESTER, MN—In an effort to help working individuals improve their fitness and well-being, experts at the Mayo Clinic issued a new set of health guidelines Thursday recommending that Americans stand up at their desk, leave their office, and never return.

“Many Americans spend a minimum of eight hours per day sitting in an office, but we observed significant physical and mental health benefits in subjects after just one instance of standing up, walking out the door, and never coming back to their place of work again,” said researcher Claudine Sparks, who explained that those who implemented the practice in their lives reported an improvement in mood and reduced stress that lasted for the remainder of the day, and which appeared to persist even into subsequent weeks.

“We encourage Americans to experiment with stretching their legs by strolling across their office and leaving all their responsibilities behind forever just one time to see how much better they feel. People tend to become more productive, motivated, and happy almost immediately. We found that you can also really get the blood flowing by pairing this activity with hurling your staff ID across the parking lot.” Sparks added that Americans could maximize positive effects by using their lunch break to walk until nothing looks familiar anymore and your old life is a distant memory.

Posted by: Chris S. Feb 12 2015, 04:53 PM

I think you have to follow you're heart, man!

You only get one life to live - and when you look back at it years from now you don't want to have to ask yourself "what if?".

Posted by: Mertay Feb 12 2015, 05:13 PM

Congrats! I like play flash based games on sites like armorgames and kongregate

As for guitar, starts strady. Directly jumping in an intense program can damage your hands, happened to a friend of mine whos a guitar teacher in a university.

To me guitar playing is more about knowing to make music anyway (although I like shred) so leaning theory soundbased (I do recommend piano too to understand harmony) can be a nice primary goal besides exercises. Finally, create a program as jumping into everything at once always fails.

Posted by: PosterBoy Feb 13 2015, 08:57 AM

Unless you have some accountability, specific goals and a solid GIT , Berklee like curriculum. I would say you are going to waste 2 years of your life and have very little to show for it.

Talking from experience of having a period of 15 months unemployed but with plenty of savings, I could have been so productive and recorded an album etc but I didn't even though I had every intention of doing so.

Maybe it's just me, but I think you'd have to be unusually focused and disciplined person to come away from this with results that would show that 2 years full time study had been done

Posted by: Hajduk Feb 13 2015, 09:02 AM

Congrats takes a lot of courage to chase what you love. Good luck

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Feb 13 2015, 09:20 AM

When people follow their hearts I feel good about humanity. Congratulations, I am looking forward to following your journey!

Posted by: Ben Higgins Feb 13 2015, 12:29 PM

Hi Adam, it takes brass ones to make a change like that but from my perspective, with many years guitar playing and years of different jobs I would say:

Don't be hasty to throw away consistent employment. Money will solve more of your life's woes than guitar playing ever will.

Also, I could answer your questions now without needing to wait 2 years for the results.

1) No. Even the greats who practise for many hours a day had times where they didn't practice that much. I think the stories of certain players practising 8+ hours a day have to be taken with a pinch of salt and understood in context. They may have gone through periods of time where they may have spent that long on playing but I bet you it wasn't everyday, constantly for many years. They also may have spent much of that time composing it just jamming along to songs. It wouldn't have been constant 'work'. Also, setting yourself such a heft demand is more like an albatross around your neck. Guitar should be fun. The more you enjoy it, the more inspired you are to go to it the next day. With what you're proposing you'll burn right out, I guarantee it.
2) Yes. Of course it could. But then any practise can and should improve your skills as a musician.

If those 2 reasons are the only reasons for doing it I would say that such a choice is very questionable. I would expect someone to have a more concrete purpose for doing it, like 'I want to go to Berklee' or something... doing it just to find out if it's worth it seems a bit whimsical. BUT just to confuse things again they do say that the time to take risks is when you're young so by all means, read and think about what I said and then ignore it !

Posted by: AdamB Feb 13 2015, 12:45 PM

Thanks for the feedback guys,

Ha, yea. I do feel like working in an office environment isn't the most healthy way to spend the bulk of your life. However, the places I've worked have generally taken good care of their staff. And working in an open plan office can be quite nice often times, you feel like there's a lot of people around and can start up conversations easily. I think at first I'll like being on my own time, but I expect after a lot of being alone practicing I'll probably start to miss the office thing. I don't think it'll be enough to stop me in my plans, I'll probably have to arrange regular meet-ups with friends and such to overcome this, though.



I am worried about my hands a little. I currently do 4->5 hours, but have gone up to around 8 hours in the past for short periods. I have on occasion had some trouble with pain in my fretting hand wrist, so I'm doing a lot of stretching and warming up at the beginning of my sessions. I think I should get used to playing more hours quite quickly though, as I already play for extended periods of time. Also I'll have weekends to recover, and will reign back my practice if I start to have problems.



Fair point, and it may well be the case! Only time will tell, I suppose. However, I feel it's something I need to explore, and now is the time to do it. I have yet to plan exactly what I'm going to be up to, though I do intend to plan it. I have a rough idea that I'm going to do say 5 hours of technique work in the morning, followed by another 5 hours divided up between sheet reading, singing-what-I-play/ear training, rhythm/groove practice, improv, writing and just jamming about. I also intend to make a good list of all the things I want to improve at - lists of scales I want to know, songs/licks/solos I want to know, etc. I will try my best to plan this stuff and be productive.

One idea I have is to set challenges. So, like a 'how much can I improve at sheet reading' within a set period of time - say 2 months or something, giving over the bulk of my practice time to it during that period. That way it'll sort of keep it interesting for myself (I can't sheet read well at all currently, and I've always wanted to be able to read sheets down), and give me focus on something for a set quantity of time. And it'd be interesting if nothing else to see how quickly one can improve when focused like that.

I'm also quite resourceful on my own - I'm largely self taught thus far. I'm also a self-taught programmer. I find I naturally spend a great deal of time and effort learning things without needing an institution or teacher to show me direction. Indeed, the times in my life when I have been in school/college/university, I found having to be in lectures etc. was more of a hindrance than a help to me, as I am a practical person - that is to say that I only really learn by 'doing'. I understand not everyone is like that, but I am. I also feel that with music, the limiting factor isn't some knowledge I could be told by a teacher at this point - I've a lot of areas I really need to vastly improve on, but there's very little technique wise or theory wise I either don't know or can't find out with google - I think now it's simply putting in the time to really get to know the instrument. There's also all the videos on GMC!





Haha, thanks guys. I think whether it works out good or bad, it's at least going to be interesting! That's what I think life's really about, doing things that are interesting.

Posted by: AdamB Feb 13 2015, 03:47 PM

Thanks for the input, you're a great player and I appreciate it.

Yea I think what you say is probably the reality of it. I have thought about that, but think it'd still make an interesting experiment regardless, both for myself and anyone reading my blog about my work. I used to do up to around 8 hours when I was in uni, skipping lectures to play guitar. I enjoyed that but I don't think I was focused or consistent enough back then to get the most out of it, but I did make some big gains in my playing. As for the work thing, I can always find freelancing opportunities if I need to, so I think to an extent I can dip in and out of work as I choose to. And I can always make work for myself, making games and the like.



Well I guess that's a circular argument. Philosophically, is there ever a concrete reason for doing anything? I think all you can do is what you feel you need to at any given moment and be glad at the end of it that you took control of your own life.

Posted by: klasaine Feb 13 2015, 03:49 PM

Totally depends on the person.
Even if you don't attain your 'goal', you may have one of the most introspective and illuminating periods of your life. Having something to show for it can be as simple as less stress, a relaxed mind and possibly realizing that maybe music full time is not actually what you want to do or can attain(?). That's a lot.
I hate schedules. Figuring out how to become a musician was paramount for me in my late teens/early twenties. But that's just me.

Posted by: Ben Higgins Feb 13 2015, 06:40 PM

You've clearly thought long and hard about it and made a rational decision so all the best to you, man As you said at the end, is there ever a reason that's better than another ? One man's reason could be another man's folly and so on... if the reason's good enough for you then it's good enough.

Posted by: Todd Simpson Feb 13 2015, 07:59 PM

Congrats! Just in practical terms though, have you saved up a bunch of money to live on? Just living costs a lot these days so having money for food, strings, rent, etc. Is pretty important. It's why most folks don't just up and quit their jobs. Are you going to be ok financially? Also, if you are using whatever savings you have, do you have any plan to generate income during this time? If not, when you run out of money, you will be in a bit of pickle ya know?

Posted by: klasaine Feb 13 2015, 09:17 PM

Ya know, it's been said many times ... If you don't try you'll forever regret NOT trying.
And ... if you have a plan to fall back on - you will.

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Feb 13 2015, 10:41 PM

I think it's good you get balanced feedback here, big decisions should be thought of thoroughly and [maybe more importantly] felt for a long time, before action is taken.

However I feel I must share my opinion about the GIT / Berklee thing.

These schools are absolutely amazing for getting in the right context / connections. However, they can also be seen as extremely expensive clone factories.

Sure they can help you on the way, but if you have what it takes to build on the connections you have made there, then there is nothing preventing you from doing it where you are now (especially with the interwebz)

And if you do drop your steady income, burn all your savings (+ maybe take additional loans) to finance two years of Berklee...well even if you do make it in the music biz after that, you'll have a hard time recovering. Ouch!

If you have a burning desire to do something else, and you have thought a lot about it - then that desire will be your fuel to get you where you want. And that desire cannot be purchased.

Amen Ken!

Posted by: Todd Simpson Feb 13 2015, 11:07 PM

Well said!! I know it's a drag trying to plan out all the "money things" and such. Especially when considering really expensive music schools that more often than not graduate you with wads of debt and very little chance of earning an income.

As KRIS said, you really can do it via the interwebs. It's important to make a plan and head towards being and economically viable entity, no matter what that entails. In short, you gotta eat, you gotta buy strings. So unless you win the lottery or have parents/sugar gal etc. to pay your way, life gets really expensive really quick. I'm all for following your dreams. But I"m also all for being a pragmatist.

Posted by: klasaine Feb 13 2015, 11:08 PM

I will add that the Berklee College of Music is no clone factory. It is one of the (if not THE) most unique music schools out there. Besides the quality of the education, the potential connections you make there can - if you take advantage of them - serve you the rest of your life.
*Grammy winners this year that attended Berklee College of Music - 18.

IMO the 'clones' come out of the fact that we all have essentially free and easy access to the exact same material. But you can't blame the info - that's passive. The recipient decides what he or she will do with it ...

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Feb 13 2015, 11:41 PM

I guess you could blame the curriculum for how and which information is presented?

I can't really comment on details though, all the info I have about these schools are second hand. I know there is a lot of amazing teaching and chemistry going on there.

I also know for sure many people come to these schools with a big misconception about what the schools can accomplish for them. And just a few months could turn into a very expensive mistake.

Posted by: klasaine Feb 13 2015, 11:48 PM

Curricula is rarely ever to blame. Especially when there's a lot of it.
It's what the student absorbs and then what they choose to do with it.
Here's a list of some Berklee alumni ... http://www.ranker.com/list/famous-berklee-college-of-music-alumni-and-students/reference?page=2
Pretty diverse list of folks.

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Feb 13 2015, 11:53 PM

Yes, but that list is nothing compared to the one listing famous people who did not go there.

The fact that such a list is needed is alarming to me. Though I can of course understand why there is an interest.

Posted by: waynedcoville Feb 13 2015, 11:54 PM

wow good luck to you. i wish i had more time to focus on music but...money.

Posted by: AdamB Feb 14 2015, 07:03 PM

Yea, I've thought about that stuff. I've been planning to do the guitar-intensive thing for a long time, many years. I wasn't sure when I was going to do it, but I've been preparing for it until I felt ready, so I've had a long time to get that stuff sorted.

I've been very, very lucky in my life (...so far...), so I have a place to live which I can maintain very cheaply. I have savings I can survive on for a while. I have the ability to run month by month on very little money if needed (unless something catastrophic happens to my house or something). I have a supportive fiance who also has steady employment. I have had a good career in games so far, and feel I have enough contacts, a good enough CV and good enough skills that I can find work - either freelance or more permanently - if and when I decide to do that.

Long term, what I think would be ideal is that I get enough freelance work that I can switch between concentrating on games and concentrating on playing guitar as I want over the years, because I love both of those things.

But for the short term (the next year or two), I feel like I need to spend a great deal of time on the guitar, as I've spent 8 years or so on games and 0 years on the guitar!

Posted by: klasaine Feb 14 2015, 07:22 PM

Awesome! You won't regret it.

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Feb 14 2015, 11:33 PM

Wow this is really exciting! I am really looking forward to following your journey.

Btw may I invite you to http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_forum/index.php?showtopic=53894?

Posted by: Todd Simpson Feb 15 2015, 04:59 AM

Having a supportive Fiancee is a wonderful thing. Hopefully she will become a supportive wife if things work out Having a significant other that really "gets it" can make al the difference.

Posted by: Caelumamittendum Feb 15 2015, 12:53 PM

Good luck with your musical journey! I think it's what many people dream of doing!

Posted by: AdamB Feb 16 2015, 04:16 PM

Ah cool. Yea I want to do this (and do some rec videos, as I feel that would be useful). I will probably join whatever is available come April, as that's when my working contract expires and I will begin my new guitary life and thus have time in my practicing schedule to do the more creative things I've been neglecting rather than just pushing technique; I'm going to be splitting my time reasonably evenly between technique work and creative/new things.

Posted by: AdamB Apr 11 2015, 08:58 PM

So on Monday I'm starting a 5 day 'practice 10 hours a day' thing, to see how that goes.

The week after I have some video game stuff to do, but I thought I'd try it for 5 days to see what troubles I run into mentally/physically, then in the following weeks I can use what I've learnt to build up a better picture of how I'm going to structure my practice sessions.

I'll probably update my blog on my progress as I go.

Posted by: Todd Simpson Apr 15 2015, 08:53 PM

"Video game stuff"? Playing or working on a new game?

Posted by: Mudbone Apr 16 2015, 04:43 AM

I can say from my own experience that I've never made nearly as much progress from setting a certain time period to practice as from playing something my heart wanted me to play.

In the past I kept a log to track how much I practiced, and would set certain time goals for each day. I would have time for scales, songs etc...

Eventually, it became a chore. I would lumber on through three hours of practice, each minute just waiting for the allocated hour for scales to end so I could play what I really wanted to play. I also got injured, and it forced me to stop playing a couple of times. Cubital Tunnel Syndrome is a bitch.

I began to despise it, partly because I wasn't making the progress I thought I should've been making, and also because I was taking time away from enjoying other things, like beer, boobs and random shenanigans.

I'm not against being methodical about your approach. But for me, being systematically rigid didn't work. Something I'm doing for pleasure shouldn't be rigid (no pun intended Ben hahaha) If you're thoroughly enjoying playing or practicing you'll do it throughout the night and not even realize it.

If you're already practicing a few hours everyday and not making much progress I suggest you modify your approach before you make drastic changes to your life.

Posted by: Ben Higgins Apr 16 2015, 09:07 AM

That is all, sir.

Posted by: AdamB Apr 16 2015, 09:38 AM

Yea, we've not put much info up on it but you can check it out http://www.6stringsand16bits.com/p/orbit_6.html.



Thanks for your insight. I agree that it's not for everyone, but I enjoy the systematic approach. As such I don't think this is such a problem for me, I've been practising in this manner for 4->5 hours a day for years already. It's now just that it's an all day thing rather than having to fit it around work. This week I've done over 33 hours as I type this, with 17 more left to go this week, and I feel happy about it. then band practice on the weekend. I have time in my schedule for working on a lot of different things now - learning songs, sight reading, lots of technique stuff I couldn't fit in before.

Posted by: AdamB Apr 17 2015, 07:45 PM

Just finished today's practice.

Did 50 hours of practising this week, except for the tired feeling in my hands it doesn't really feel like it.

It do think I've improved a lot just in this past week though.

Posted by: Caelumamittendum Apr 17 2015, 10:57 PM

That's great dedication, man! I wish I could find the same sort of motivation! Well done, but watch out and take care of yourself, mentally and physically with your hands and arms.

Posted by: Todd Simpson Apr 18 2015, 08:06 AM

Well said It's far too easy to overdo it and give yourself carpal tunnel syndrome Just make sure to warm up and cool down, before and after play

Very cool!! So your doing some programming on the side? Game looks very fun What platform is it for?

Posted by: AdamB Apr 20 2015, 05:23 AM

Yea, at the moment the plan is to alternate between a week of intensive 50 hour practice and a week 30 hours of practice + working on my own games.

So, this week is split between playing guitar and doing some coding for Orbit, and next week will be another 50 hour practice week.

Confirmed platforms for Orbit are currently PC, Mac, Linux, Xbox One.

Posted by: klasaine Apr 21 2015, 03:01 PM

That's great!
I haven't put in 8 hours a day consistently since my late 20s ... but I did do it a lot and it certainly did a lot for me.

The last four days (Friday through Monday) I was able to spend a lot of time with my guitar. I even had a breakthrough of sorts ... which is pretty rare these days.

Keep it up Adam.

Posted by: AdamB Apr 28 2016, 11:28 AM

So I've been out working on music for pretty much a solid year, and I haven't really been on here since - I've been lost in the guitar void.

Now I'm at a little over 7k hours of practice all told and am out gigging regularly, though I am working again now (I'm now freelancing working from home coz I started running out of money to keep myself fed lol! So I still get to play a few hours every day but not as much, like 4 hours).

What I have learnt thus far is that no amount of practice will make me a super awesome shredder, I think there's some vital piece missing in my brain that would allow that to happen, I'm nowhere near where I thought 7000 thousand hours would get me in terms of musicality or technical ability. I still very much feel like an intermediate player in every way.

It's interesting that if I just widdle away playing whatever I can usually play OK, but as soon as I have to play something 'correctly' or 'the same as last time' it's impossible!

So, I'm still planning on meeting my goal of 10k hours, just coz I said I would do it, but I'm moving some hours over to a change in direction. I think at this point pushing forward with more technique stuff at full throttle isn't going to help, so I have now started writing music - I figure it's about time I start putting something out into the world anyhow. Anyone interested can hear my short demo on my SoundCloud to get an idea of the direction it's taking:

https://soundcloud.com/adambradleyguitar/sets/yin-machine-yang-machine-demo

Cheers!

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Apr 28 2016, 11:55 AM

It's really cool to hear back from you. I admire you for keeping your promise to yourself (and to us..!? )

Could you let us know how your routine looked, ie what kind of stuff you practiced on a daily basis?

Btw that clip sounds very promising to my ears!

Posted by: bleez Apr 28 2016, 01:33 PM

brilliant to hear how its been going dude
really interesting to read your progress. Im curious how you maybe quantify your shreddy progress. did you have a benchmark or a usual BPM you were roughly hitting before as a comparison to your current level?

btw the tracks on your soundcloud are very good.

Posted by: Phil66 Apr 28 2016, 02:08 PM

Very interesting Adam,

Thanks for letting us in on your journey.

I'll listen to the sound clips when I get home later on.

Cheers buddy and all the best for the future

Phil

Posted by: Todd Simpson Apr 29 2016, 01:22 AM

Best of luck with everything Don't burn any bridges btw on the freelance end. You never know when you will need a bit of scratch

Todd

Posted by: AdamB Apr 29 2016, 10:25 AM

Cheers guys.

Yea so it was varied - I would generally plan 8->10 hours of exercises (I write out the plan for the day in the morning - I'd get up at 5 to 5:30 am and figure out what I wanted to do in my exercise book and then work through it throughout the day).

Each day I would just decide that day what I was doing - I didn't have an overall plan week by week as such - I just worked on what I felt I needed to at any given time. Mostly it's technique stuff, all the typical things - alternate picking, sweeping, economy picking, 1nps picking etc. I have a fascination with great technique and I wanted to achieve great technique as a bed rock of what I want to do with the instrument, so I threw most of my time into that.

Exercises themselves would be either bits of scale fragments or passages from songs, bits and pieces off of guitar magazines (mostly grabbed from the web).

Most days I would have the guitar in my hands more like 10->12 hours in total, because I'd spend a bit of time between exercises either trying to nail something I didn't get right or trying out new things, playing songs and just noodling around.

My hands would get really tired at the end of the day, maybe every 2 to 3 weeks I'd have to take a day off because my hands felt numb from playing too much, especially if I had a gig coming up.

I also didn't play much on weekends unless I had a gig (I was averaging about 1 gig a week for most of the year) except for the odd bit of noodling or learning songs for a gig.

I feel I didn't really improve at all during this time - my biggest problem is still that one moment I'm playing flawless fast runs and sounding great, then the next second I'm in the wrong key and I can't remember what I'm meant to be playing and my hands freeze up. It's not related to difficulty of the piece or passage - I struggle to get through a 3 chord punk song without playing in the wrong key at somepoint (usually I hit a chord a fret too low or something - I don't think I've ever played a song the whole way through without screwing up at least once!)

All that stuff about play slow over and over to a click - that worked great for building speed, but even after thousands of repetitions my hands just will not learn to play things the same each time - and I don't mean like just a little variance, I mean they completely forget how to play haha.

So now I'm still moving in that direction - I feel I need to finish what I started just to see it through, but I'm trying to spend more time creating simpler music instead, as I don't feel that I will get the chops to write the music I intended.

But meh I'll just get on with it!

Posted by: AdamB Apr 29 2016, 01:21 PM

Sorry I missed this question!

Ah so I wasn't really 'measuring' - before I started this intensive thing, I had already done about 5k hours of practice almost exclusively using a click, concentrating on an optimal cross-over of speed and accuracy.

I'd play things really slow to the click and gradually build up the speed over the days/weeks/months (depending on what I was doing). I never really wrote this down, I just kept a mental note of roughly where I was at (you get stuck at shelves where you can't break a certain BPM for a while so trust me when I say it's easy to remember lol).

But I found that after a while, speed and accuracy both topped out, with accuracy a long way behind. I don't think this is down to simply 'you didn't play clean and accurately at a low speed enough' - I did my time there that's for sure - I have found that my accuracy is poor regardless of the speed at which I play.

What I think I have come to understand through all this is trying to boil down the quality of your playing to a number like BPM or to some perceived accuracy on a given day is kind of futile - there's so many moving parts involved and most of them are mental. Not only mental - but completely invisible to you, I have no idea what my brain is actually doing when I play I'm left guessing as to why things are not coming together.

Posted by: Todd Simpson Apr 30 2016, 07:38 PM

Like anything, it just takes wads of time. They say 10k hours to get any level of "Mastery" on something and that includes downtime for the brain to process during sleep. So roughly 10 years from the starting point. It's a long slong and there is no way around it, which is what makes playing an instrument, and playing it well, so special imho. Can't be faked or bought. Gotta be earned. Sounds like you are well on your way to earning it! As you learn, you will change as well, what you want, what you want out of it, what you want to play, it will all change. It's a multi year process so change is natural. It's ok to push yourself, just make sure you are enjoying it along the way. if you stop enjoying it, what's the point? If you want to play slower stuff, or without a methronme or learn covers or write your own material, great all of it will lead you to becoming a better player over time. The most important thing is just to not quit. Just keep at it. You will grow and change along the way and come out the other end a better musician and hopefully grow as a person along the way Few things teach patience and humility, not to mention perseverance, like learning an instrument

Todd

Posted by: klasaine Apr 30 2016, 08:07 PM

In my experience, which at this point in my life and career I have no problem saying "is vast", I will say that it takes a solid 10 years of dedication (10,000 hours or not) to just be competently mediocre. What I mean by that is after 10 years of working hard in a dedicated fashion you should be able to write a decent song, play a decent gig and record a decent track. It may not be brilliant but it won't suck either.

*I'm not talking about youtube phenom adolescents that have learned a couple of pieces by rote and parrot them back like a trained monkey (mixed metaphors intentional). I'm talking about actually making music (or art in general).

Posted by: Phil66 May 1 2016, 04:42 PM

This is really interesting and puts a lot of things into perspective.
I guess many of us are "fooled" by the young kids who can play anything. Just look at Tina S, she is incredible, and does anyone remember Thomas McRocklin?

These brilliantly gifted youngsters make us "normal" folk feel like slow learners when we're not really, they are the exception.

Thanks again for sharing this Adam, we can all learn from your journey that first and foremost has to come enjoyment and pleasure, speed of progress is second place.

Your experience has made me think more about not getting frustrated when something seems to take me forever to crack. I only get an hour and a half most nights to practise so I realise I'm not doing too bad.

I wonder at what point the amount of practise becomes counterproductive.

Looking forward to more discussion on this fascinating subject

Posted by: Todd Simpson May 2 2016, 01:10 AM

Well said It really is a life long thing. It will take all the time you can make for it, just like any other relationship. Some players get better quicker, some get to writing better songs quicker, some folks take longer. Every player, every person is different.

10 years seems like forever sometimes, and some folks don't start playing until they are in their 30s for 40s. Point is, it just takes time, and quite a bit of it. So make it something that you want to do, no matter what that takes. If you can just keep at it, you will get to where you want to be Be patient with yourself. Also, sometimes, life gets in the way. I've dedicated quite a bit of my life just to playing guitar at the expense of other parts. I'm not married, I have no kids, no girlfriend, etc. I spend money on gear and not much else, I spend time playing guitar as much as possible and trying to come up with challenging bits for our weekend vid chats.

Such dedication is probably a bit extreme, but all I've ever wanted to do is play guitar so that's what I spend time on

Posted by: AdamB May 11 2016, 06:55 PM

Yea I agree with this - I think I'm gonna have to just keep on going over a much longer period of time, maybe after another 10 years I'll finally be able to play the same thing twice without it sounding wildly different lol. Only one way to find out!

I am happy that I'm writing music finally - I'm on my way to putting something out into the world rather than just shredding alone in my room. Though I'm still doing that, too!



I do find my tone is also quite muddy when I'm playing fast stuff, I find it hard to get clarity, not sure if it's technique or my equipment or just the video encoding eating the sound and spitting it out, lol.

Any tips for that?

Posted by: bleez May 11 2016, 07:11 PM

muddy tone or not, that's damn good playing mate

Posted by: Phil66 May 11 2016, 09:09 PM

And you reckon you're still "very intermediate" ???????

Mate that playing is sweet, I'd sure love to be able to do that. Nice one Adam

Posted by: Mertay May 11 2016, 11:29 PM

Nice, I can recommend working on rhythmical articulation but not aware of any (modern) books that can teach you without someone else's help. I did find one of I worked on for free on internet, too soon for you but bookmark it for future use; https://archive.org/details/completemethodfo00bona

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl May 12 2016, 09:17 AM

Ok thanks for clarifying - I understand what you wanted to achieve and how you worked on it.

It seems you were looking for technical progress, and that's what you got - although not completely consistent. And that is normal even after a year of intense practicing.

My only objection to what you did - is that having one day off every 2 or 3 weeks with this kind of 10-12 hours routine is not enough. The average person would run a serious risk of injury. Even if you are aware about thing slike stretching, posture and physical exercise - I would recommend one day of rest per week.

Also - I think that if you did not notice any progress at all - you would have been really discouraged by this routine. So would you agree it's rather a matter of progress not meeting your expectations? This can be a good thing if you deal with it in a constructive way.

About:



It's the same for me, I find that 'brute forcing' your way to perfection is nearly impossible. So my solution is to not play anything (anymore) that is not musically stimulating, if my mind can feel the music in what I am about to play, it is rare that I mess up. However If I try to play something just to showcase a shred technique, I will mess up 50% of the time.



I agree with the 10 years requirement in general, if we consider many people are not smart about their practicing. I definitely think that smart practicing can shorten this time considerably.

* Many people think they have to wait several years before they can start playing with other students/ musicians. This is a major mistake slowing down progress.

* When we notice progress in some areas as a beginner, we tend to start thinking in the lines of "I am more gifted in some areas than others". Regardless of whether you believe in natural talent or not (I don't!) - this attitude is a major obstacle for progress.

* So just as with weight lifting, it's a matter of constantly hitting your musical muscles from new directions. To maximise progress you should expose yourself to new musical elements *every practice session*. You can still keep a steady routine, but you should alter it every day - otherwise your progress curve will level out. It is a very common mistake for people to stick to an old routine just because it worked when it was new. The key is to make sure your routine always is fresh and new, I believe this is super important, and it will increase your progress pace exponentially.

All these points are much more mentally demanding than the average 'metronome + learn a new song' type of routine. But they make your practice sessions much more time efficient, thus allowing faster progress with the time you have at hand.

Posted by: AdamB May 12 2016, 09:56 AM

Yes that's basically it - what I want is to become a much more confident player, so that I can go to play a fast shreddy run live without having to worry about the 50% chance that I'll mess it up. But instead I gained a little more technical prowess, but still can't use it live.



I think you may be right - though I don't hear music in my head like other musicians say they do so I don't really know how to relate to what other musicians talk about when they say to 'feel the music'. I am very external with music - I have to hear it before I can process it. Nothing comes from within first for me - I have never been able to imagine the sound of an instrument in my mind first. I've done a lot of ear training to try and gain this but I feel that it's just a fundamental part of how my mind works that I don't think like that.



Yes this is something I definitely suffer from - I tend to fall into patterns of practising the same stuff over and over. I'm making a concious effort to change things up more, but it's not easy! What I need to do is start branching out into playing more varied material (and going back to learning songs that have difficult parts in - I haven't learnt anything new here for a long while!)



This I partially disagree with - I think it's a very personal thing to the individual. To be clear; I did have more time off than you might think (I didn't play as much on weekends - I'd maybe have about 3 to 6 hours of playing for gigs unless it was a really heavy weekend where I had three gigs to do, and when I did decide to practice I just learnt songs rather than running drills), though I actually found that increasing my workload made my hands feel healthier;

To elaborate - back when I was playing 4 hours, 5 hours a day or so, every couple of months I would get a shooting sharp pain in my wrist and I'd have to stop for a few days. I did worry that I was ruining my hands and that going even further (to 10 hours or more) would just destroy my wrists and stop me from playing. But actually I found the opposite - I now never get pains in my wrist and my hands feel like they move easier than they did.



What is that?



Cheers, like I say I can play fast but it's not very accurate - I could never play what I did in that video live because I wouldn't get past the first like 5 notes without freaking out and making a glaring error. Also my hands just don't move anywhere near that fast live. Also for some reason - and I dunno whether anyone else finds this - but when I play live everything sounds out of tune for some reason - I have to keep checking my tuning but it's usually fine.

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl May 12 2016, 10:12 AM

With the way I phrased this, it might sound like I am hearing some magic music in my head that is guiding me through the deep realms of improvisation bla bla bla. But that is not the case. I am pretty sure you can hear exactly what i am hearing:

* start a backing track

* now before you actually play something, take a second to think of what you will be playing (ie a lick or pattern etc) .

Now what you just did, is what I refer to as "hearing in ones head". Please let me know if that feels ok to you? Can you do this?

Posted by: Mertay May 12 2016, 11:31 AM

Its just like sight reading but instead of singing the notes you read the timing of the notes. Best working alone is, open a metronome and tap the tempo with your right hand too. Name every note "ta" at the right time they're written.

You may not use crazy timing in your compositions but if you advance in this study you'll be able to play really tight. We studied a few famous jazz musicians once where we slowed the tempo of the song and noticed even then they had perfect timing.

Just remembered steve vai also has a lesson on that but its more for learning not practice; http://www.vai.com/tempo-mental/

Posted by: Todd Simpson May 12 2016, 07:08 PM

Fine playing Looks like you are using the neck pickup, it's just naturally more muddy and less trebly than the bridge pickup. If you want to keep the yngwie ish tone of using the neck pickup, but want to get rid of some mud, then it's down to your signal processing after it leaves your guitar. One easy trick is to simply use less distortion. As your fingers get stronger, you'll find you don't need as much as you used to. Also depends on what you are using for distorting the signal. Thus why many folks use a clean boost to get more definition out of whatever they are using. E.g. putting a tube screamer with gain at zero and volume some where between 6 and 10, tone knob to taste, to boost their amp/preamp/sim without allowing it to mud up

Todd

Posted by: AdamB May 13 2016, 10:43 AM

OK So I can play to backing tracks - but I always have to start roughly in the same place (somewhere within the minor pentatonic patterns). I can't 'hear' what it's going to sound like first so I usually try to start on the root, 5th or 3rd of the scale (though I can't always tell whether it's major or minor by hearing so I have to play first so sometimes I hit a bad sounding note to start off). From that point on I can sort of feel my way around so long as I move in a step-wise fashion. Other than that I have to revert to running patterns, and they don't always work (I find it hard to stop myself playing the same phrases I always use - even when they don't work in the current harmonic context).

I find playing to backings really hard. Whilst I don't 'mess up' when I'm improvising (I find improvising really easy and non-stressful), it rarely sounds interesting because I'm just sort of on autopilot.

Though I'm more interested at the moment in fixing what happens when I try to play something 'correctly'. I.e. I have to play a solo that's the same each time, or get through a chord sequence without forgetting the chords part way through.



Ah yea I've read that before when I was in my worshipping Steve Vai phase lol. I will start trying out more interesting rhythmic ideas (I find counting 8th note triplets really hard where they cross the beat, so I'm working on that today).



Not so fussed about a yngwie sound, I just use this guitar as a backup - it's a fake strat I bought for a couple hundred quid from a guy on ebay. All my other guitars are either in funny tunnings, in need of repair from being played to the point that the frets have worn out or have electrical problems from being gigged hard.

I like the neck pickup on strats - I love that warm thing you get around the 12th fret. But yea for some reason with lead playing my tone is always muddy - I think partly it's the distortion like you say, I think you're right there, and partly my playing lacks clarity.

I find if I back off the distortion I can no longer play fast. I've been trying to fix it by playing speed picking stuff on my acoustic, which after a while I can do, but it never sticks. By that I mean I start off not being able to do it on the acoustic, then a couple hours go by and now I'm handling it OK. But the next day, back to square 1. So frustrating.

Because of this I'm not so sure it's a strength thing - but I don't know what else it could be. Mental block perhaps?

Posted by: Todd Simpson May 14 2016, 03:50 AM

Finger strength is KEY so try to do some drills using only one hand. Turn down the gain a bit and just use your left hand to play and mute with your right. Eventually, the right hand becomes a tone choice only, not the primary way to make strings move

Todd

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl May 14 2016, 06:39 PM

Ok fair enough - it sounds like you know where you want to go and are ready to put the time into it. I'd say just keep going! B)